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Harassed gay students call on schools to keep them safe
By Edith Brady-Lunny
eblunny@pantagraph.com
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BLOOMINGTON -- When Jordan Becker was in eighth grade, she learned her first lesson about how gay people can be treated in the classroom and in life.

Three years ago, Becker was an openly gay student at Olympia Middle School in Stanford. She got A’s in her classes and was president of the student council. Things changed, said Becker, after her girlfriend’s mother contacted school officials about the relationship.

“The teachers pulled my friends out of class and said they couldn’t be friends with me. At one point it got so bad the school had to call in counselors to help me,” said Becker, now a junior at Normal Community West High School. At one low point during the ordeal, Becker said she considered suicide.

Becker’s mother, Rhonda Becker, said school officials rearranged her daughter’s schedule to separate the two girls. Teachers followed Becker in the hallways and into the bathroom.

“When she was kicked off the student council without a reason, that was the last straw,” said Rhonda Becker.

With legal assistance from the American Civil Liberties Union, the school district and Becker’s family reached an agreement that restored Becker’s student council position and her class schedule.

But bitter feelings about the incident remained, and the family has since moved from the Olympia district into Unit 5. Becker helped establish the Gay Straight Alliance at the Normal high school. Last year, about 20 students attended meetings of the group, which helps students explore sexual orientation issues, she said.

“Looking back, I realize that no one should have to go through what I went through,” said Becker.

As Olympia’s new superintendent, Brad Hutchinson was not involved in the handling of Becker’s case.

The district does not condone abuse of students for any reason, he said.

“Anything that’s disrespectful to people or done to harm an individual in any way would not be acceptable,” said Hutchinson.

GLBT population

The number of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students, referred to collectively as GLBT, is a growing segment of the school population. National studies on the treatment of GLBT students indicate that bullying and harassment of GLBT students by their classmates is common.

According to the 2005 National School Climate Survey conducted by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, 37.8 percent of students experienced physical harassment at school on the basis of sexual orientation and 26.1 percent on the basis of how they express their gender. Nearly one-fifth, or 17.6 percent, of students had been physically assaulted because of their sexual orientation, and 11.8 percent were assaulted because of their gender expression.

The 2005 school survey, which focused on ensuring safety for all students, also showed that GLBT students were five times more likely than the general population to skip school because of safety concerns, and they were twice as likely to report that they were not pursuing any post-secondary education.

Mathew Clark, a former student at Bloomington Junior High School, said he was tripped on the soccer field and ridiculed by other students after he disclosed that he was gay. He will be attending a new school this fall where he hopes things are better.

“I want the kids to be more open and accepting. Hopefully, if something ever does happen, the staff won’t feed it but stop it,” said the eighth-grader.

District 87 Superintendent Robert Nielsen declined to comment on the specifics of Clark’s situation. “I can assure you that every time something was reported to the administration, it was handled appropriately,” said Nielsen.

Teaching respect

Teaching children to respect one another is a goal that begins on a child’s first day at school, according to Unit 5 Superintendent Gary Niehaus. Students are taught that name calling, including names that relate to a person’s sexual orientation, is not acceptable, he said.

“Part of the process of diversity is getting to know the person next to us and treating them respectfully,” said Niehaus.

Unit 5 principals collect data several times a month on incidents of bullying and other troubling behaviors, he said, as part of the district’s Positive Behavioral Intervention System. Among other behaviors, the program helps children understand what language is acceptable, he said.

In District 87, Nielsen said the district’s population grows more diverse every year. Several programs, including Character Counts, focus on teaching students to respect their peers.

“We try to educate kids that being different is not bad,” said Nielsen.

The District 87 superintendent acknowledged that schools are not the major influence in many children’s lives. If parents express opinions about GLBT people and other minorities that are contrary to what is taught in the classroom, the school’s job is more difficult, said Nielsen.

“We do everything in our power to teach respect. The reality is that students may get a different message at home,” said Nielsen.

The Diversity Project, with its membership of McLean County students from seventh grade through high school, encourages dialogue on many topics. Project director Jeff Schwartz said students have initiated discussions on gay rights issues several times.

“This is a topic that reminds me of race relations in the ’40s and ’50s. It would be a crime for it to be written off as such. I think (gay) kids really suffer because they don’t know where to go,” said Schwartz, also the mayor of Downs.

Among the support groups for local GLBT students is Bloomington’s Open Door Youth Center sponsored by the Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays of Bloomington Normal and the McLean County AIDS Task Force. The downtown center, 313 N. Main St., is open Fridays from 7:30 to 10:30 p.m.

Legal issues

When it comes to the harassment and bullying of GLBT children, teachers and students must follow guidelines beyond the anti-bullying policies adopted by their local school boards. Title IX is the federal law that prohibits federally funded schools from discriminating on the basis of sex.

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that districts may be held liable for failing to address known harassment, including harassment by other students.

The federal law also prohibits sexual harassment based on a student’s failure to conform to stereotypical notions of masculinity and femininity, according to an opinion from the U.S. Department of Education.



Coming together

Since the first Gay-Straight Alliance was formed in 1998, 3,577 student-led clubs have registered with the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network.

Illinois has 139 GSAs, putting the state among the top five states with clubs. The clubs work to address anti-LGBT name-calling and harassment in their schools and promote respect for ALL students.

Source: Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network



LGBT harassment

The impact of bias against gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender students in schools:

-- 39 percent of GLBT students reported physical harassment at school

-- 55 percent of transgender youth said they were physically harassed

-- 64 percent of GLBT students reported feeling unsafe while at their school

-- 84 percent of GLBT students were verbally harassed while at school

SOURCE: National Education Association,

for “A School Employee’s Guide to GLBT Issues”

Take a look
Allison Frantz, left, of Atlanta, and her mother Rhonda Becker, right, listen to Jordan Becker, 16, talk about her "blossoming into a gay flower" while they hang out in her room in Hudson, Illinois, Wednesday night (August 8, 2007). (Pantagraph/B Mosher)
Gretchen Shelly and her son Mathew Clark, 13, play basketball in the driveway of their home Thursday (Aug 9, 2007) in Bloomington. (Pantagraph/CARLOS T. MIRANDA)
Jordan Becker, 16, hangs out with her stuffed giraffe animal in her room in Hudson, Illinois, Wednesday night (August 8, 2007). Becker left Olympia High School after being tormented for coming out declaring she is gay to Normal Community West High School in 2005. (Pantagraph/B Mosher)
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Reader comments on this story - 696 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

I'd have to disagree "To: Hey "I have an elderly neighbor:" wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:38 PM:

" I've re-read these last few posts and it looks to me too that you are definitely attempting to demonize this older woman's son. You would have us believe that this gay "sinner" is a worthless blob of flesh whose purpose in life is to spread the devil's curse and cause ugliness. Back-pedal all you want but admit it- you'd prefer it if that was what you could get folks to believe. You think gays are sinners of the highest level. You find the very idea of someone loving someone of the same sex disgusting and deplorable, and you would deny any good, any decency, any contribution they made in an attempt to get others to share your views. Your falw-filled plight is a common one. "

Dear: "Elderly care" wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:33 PM:

" Few people EVER do enough. Nearly all of us could DOUBLE our "burden" and still SOMEHOW fit it into our lives. Sometimes that might take giving up some time (watching a nightly a tv show), or some freedom (moving an elder into your own home), or doing a bit of rearranging in our lives. And true, that can be a hassle. And true that can offten be a hassle far too burdonsome for many. It's all a matter a priorities. My experience has been, those who give and give and give- and those who sign on to do an amount of good that seems to baffle the rest of us, STILL can find time to offer more when asked upon to do so. The rewards they get typically far outweigh the "trouble" that doing so presents. While these angel-people over-acheive and take many under their wing, the rest of us?... just continue to make excuses... "

One last time: "To: Hey "I have an elderly neighbor:" wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:27 PM:

" Take CRAZY across the street, bud- I ain't buying any at my door! " "

Church Lady wrote on Sep 6, 2007 1:47 PM:

" Well, isn't this all just special? "

Elderly care wrote on Sep 6, 2007 1:25 PM:

" One thing that can prevent some people from caring more for their elderly parents is they have family responsibilities that take more from their time and resources, another is others are just more fit for the job. I know a Christian, widowed woman who took care of her blind, bed-ridden mother 24/7 until the day her mother died. She has a Christian brother who did what he could, but his sister was the better choice to take such close care of her. "

To: Hey "I have an elderly neighbor:" wrote on Sep 6, 2007 10:41 AM:

" I'm not trying to twist or turn or demonize as you say. But my point still stands. He takes better care of his mother than his siblings. End of point. His being gay still has nothing to do with it. Just so you know I don't hate anybody. How you can get any hate out of what I said is amazing. Please stop your childish ranting with your capital letters and calm down before you stroke out. "

Hey "I have an elderly neighbor:" wrote on Sep 6, 2007 10:05 AM:

" No- let me speak for MYSELF. What I am CLEARLY saying is you can tweak and twist things all you want and try like helll to get me to look down on and demonize this woman's lovely son, but I ain't gonna do it. I'm going by MY OWN personal experience on this one and I ain't buying the hate you're trying to sell. Take CRAZY across the street, bud- I ain't buying any at my door! "

To: When are: wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:16 AM:

" Are you serious? Just look at what they've done to the catholic church and all those poor children. Give me a break. "

When are wrote on Sep 6, 2007 8:22 AM:

" People going to learn that Gays are actually, for the most part, better humans then non-gays? "

To: Mom of gay (and happy) kid wrote on Sep 6, 2007 8:19 AM:

" What are you the church lady from Saturday Night Live. What made you write your post. Could it be......Satan! "

I have an elderly neighbor: wrote on Sep 6, 2007 8:16 AM:

" Basically what you're saying is that he takes better care of his mother than his siblings. His being gay has nothing to do with it so your point is mute. "

I have an elderly neighbor wrote on Sep 6, 2007 2:24 AM:

" who's a widow with 5 grown, middle-aged children. As is the way of humans- all of her kids sin. But believe me- of all the sinful deeds she has to deal with daily, her gay son gives her the least grief. He visits her almost daily- brings food, mows her yard and takes her to doctor appts. He takes her on vacations, takes her shopping, drives her to visit her two eldest who are both in prison. He stays over on weekends to assist her in babysitting her fatherless grandchildren. He tends her flower-beds and vegetable-garden from which she picks and packages produce to feed her sometimes employed/sometimes not employed daughters. He's there to console her when she worries and frets about his aimless siblings who just haven't found their path in life yet. And you wanna discuss this boy's "sin"? You should be ashamed. "

TO: "Everybody Sins" wrote on Sep 6, 2007 2:15 AM:

" No. Everybody sins- but tragedy is when you decide all others do- and that you do not. "

to mom of gay and happy kid wrote on Sep 5, 2007 7:45 PM:

" Great post. As the son of a reverend I could not have said that better. "

Everybody Sins wrote on Sep 5, 2007 1:40 PM:

" Tragedy is when you convince yourself that there are no consequences. "

To: i went to oly wrote on Sep 5, 2007 11:49 AM:

" Nothing in the U.S. Constitution requires us to accept wrong behavior of others. There should be no prejudice about the color of someone’s skin, but it’s totally different issue when you’re talking about immoral behavior in locker rooms, the privacy and safety of students, and forced brainwashing of children in school. Read previous post “To “Parent In Bloomington wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:17 PM” which states: "I’ve had those things and more done to me in school, but it wasn’t because I didn’t appreciate my gender or the opposite sex. None of those things should happen to children, but it’s evil and unconstitutional for you to try to make the school board bow their knees to your desire to force children, religious and non-religious, to deny their personal convictions of right and wrong and tell you what you want to hear: that homosexuality is natural, that they approve of it, that children don’t need a daddy and a mommy, that they believe you when you say homosexual acts are no less healthy than monogamous heterosexual ones.” "

Lizzy wrote on Sep 5, 2007 11:23 AM:

" I want to donate my skeleton to some school so my bones will be hanging up for others to see. :) People are people - acceptance of all I say. Jesus had some good stuff to teach. Too bad people distort religion and hate, anger and prejudice are introduced. All in the name of religion. "

solution... wrote on Sep 5, 2007 10:23 AM:

" um maybe u wouldnt have any of these problems if u followed the bible and actually care about where u want to go after death "

i went to oly from 8th grade on hated it and still hate that school wrote on Sep 4, 2007 9:24 PM:

" continued: but does not give any of u the right to treat her like sh**. Thats as bad as telling a african american that he or she cant marry a white person. What gives u the right to tell someone how they should b. Get ur head out of ur butt and let them be it happens for a reason. im not agianst and not with but treat them how u want to b treated "

i went to oly from 8th grade on hated it and still hate that school wrote on Sep 4, 2007 9:24 PM:

" i went there in 8th grade long time ago im now 23. I am orignally from normal. When i first started going to that school they treated u like crap no matter what. Then in 10th grade we got a black family in thats when things were worse. A school of all whites were not so nice to the black kids that went. I stood out because i was. The hicks there do nothing but get high the dumb ones. The smart ones are jerks, the teachers worship teh suk ups. but Just because some one is gay does not mean u should shut them out. i have gay friends. Sure in the bible its suppose to b wrong but i feel if that is what u feel u are go for it. I have a one year old with my husband if she turned gay sure id be werid about it . "

Mom of gay (and happy) kid wrote on Sep 4, 2007 4:42 PM:

" So the "gay debate" rages on. One thought for all the religious gay-bashers. It is NOT a sin to be homosexual anymore than it is a sin to be hetero. The sin lies in the commission of sexual acts. So, for the heterosexuals reading this I have a question or two. Do you have sex with your spouse WITHOUT the express intention of reproduction of the human species? Do you use birth control? Hmmmmm..could you be sinning? Did or do you have sexual relations outside of marriage? Hmmm...could you be sinning? Does anyone see the hypocrisy of all of this homosexual phobia? If you are a mainstream religious person, please take just a moment and think about the anger and disgust you exhibit towards someone who is different than yourself. Then take a moment and think about your faith's tenets. Can you reconcile the two? "

My god wrote on Sep 3, 2007 3:06 AM:

" My God will love me or hate me for being gay My God will etheir push me or hold me when I'm at his gates My God, . . . my god will be the one to judge. . . Not his other children that are nor worse or BETTER then me. End your gospel preaching - We all can read. . The bible was made by man.. There is bias "

To: TO: “To: Lizzy wrote on Sep 2, 2007 11:08 PM:

" I don’t know you and you don’t know me, so don’t jump to conclusions. Those weren’t generalizations, those were statistics. It’s your choice to be insulted with statistics and it’s my choice to give people facts to help save lives. "

Know what? wrote on Sep 1, 2007 6:00 AM:

" I'm gay guy and I don't want equality. I'm fine with being a second-class citizen who receives fewer rights than others have. BUT- I want a second-class-citizen TAX-RATE. Figure out a way for the amount I pay in taxes to better correspond with and reflect the more diminished set of rights available to me. "

TO: "To: Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 1:59 PM:" wrote on Sep 1, 2007 1:50 AM:

" Sister- come on over to this healthy queen's 83rd birthday party this week for a little cake and ice cream! Don't bring your husband though- even at my age, I still get frisky, and I don't know if I could control myself. Oh, and if I may? Please stop making inaccurate blanket-statements about folks like me when it's clear you've drunk the kool-aid and have given in to the conditioning that so many other wrong thinkers have. Generalizations make people sound ridiculous- that's why if I wished to insult you- I would do so directly. "

always the same wrote on Aug 31, 2007 4:24 PM:

" the simplest minds have a striking tendency to demand agreement and obedience from all others they confront, one may notice. probably something to do with the simple minds' complete inability to conceive of anything different from themselves actually being relevant to a world far more vast than their own painfully narrow selves, along with an irrational and crippling fear of the unknown, no different than an ignorant child wetting themselves from a fear of the dark. just sayin', just a thought. "

Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 2:49 PM:

" Actually, any sexual activities are okay no matter what they are as long as it's between two consenting adults. Hopefully those consenting adults are responsible and take care of themselves. I certainly wouldn't want anyone telling me I couldn't be with the person that I love and to show that love any way I saw fit. These statements I am responding to are exactly why students are being harrassed. ...mutter... mutter... narrow-minded... unaccepting... I say live and let live. "

Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 2:42 PM:

" You both missed my point. Totally. I'm saying that if parents are doing their jobs and teaching their children what is right and what is wrong then they (all young people, homosexual, heterosexual) will wait until they are in a loving monogamous relationship before engaging in more than kissing and holding hands. And even then before engaging in **gasp** sex **gasp** and I'm talking about oral here too folks - responsible parties will get tested. For everything. Any sexual behavior is dangerous now regardless what your sexual preference is. That's why the schools are addressing it - because some parents aren't doing their job. Acceptance of all people includes education for all. That's also why religion isn't taught in public schools. If parents were repsonsible and did their job completely educating their children about safe sexual activities it wouldn't be part of the curriculum. I know I'd prefer teaching my kids this. Sexual preference actually has NOTHING to do with safe practices and isn't even on topic any more except to show EQUALITY to ALL. "

To “Lizzy” wrote on Aug 31, 2007 2:12 PM:

" My children love everyone and we’ve taught them to show respect for all others, but they also know right from wrong. I don’t want to see or know exactly what all is entailed in homosexual sex practices, whether it’s the most dangerous or a little less dangerous, and I certainly don’t want my children to be forced to sit through the lectures on immoral, nasty and dangerous behavior and be told that it’s okay. That is antagonistic to what they are taught at home. Parents have a right and a duty to fight this affront to the safety of their children. "

To: Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 1:59 PM:

" No, it’s not okay, even for someone who says they are a homosexual. Homosexual activities cause people to live much shorter, unhealthier and unhappier lives. “Homosexual activity is dangerous to those who practice it, on several levels. It is obviously dangerous physically. AIDS has killed hundreds of thousands of homosexual men in the past 15 years. The condom is even less effective in homosexual activity than it is in heterosexual activity.” Homosexual activity can also lead to many other diseases. Use an Internet search engine and look up “dangers of homosexuality”, “statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle” or “Homosexuals account for well over 59% of the aids” "

Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 1:05 PM:

" Homosexual activities are okay... if you are gay. Just like heterosexual activities are okay if you are a heterosexual. Hopefully the students (all of them) will listen to their parents and use good judgement - and not engage in that kind of behavior - homosexual or heterosexual. And if they choose to engage in that behavior, they do so in the safest manner possible. "

To: Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 12:39 PM:

" I fully agree with you, as long as schools don’t use the every changing meaning of ‘diversity’ to tell my children that homosexual activities are okay and the lie that they are safe if they follow the explicit ‘how to’s’ of the new sex education class that includes dangerous things you can’t even mention on Pantagraph’s blogs. Indoctrination of children and destruction of their precious lives, hopes and futures are the responsibility and concern of their parents. The protection of these parental concerns is the responsibility of our schools; and if our school board doesn’t recognize this, they’ll make our public school system more hostile and unsafe than ever before. "

To: Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 12:38 PM:

" I fully agree with you, as long as schools don’t use the every changing meaning of ‘diversity’ to tell my children that homosexual activities are okay and the lie that they are safe if they follow the explicit ‘how to’s’ of the new sex education class that includes dangerous things you can’t even mention on Pantagraph’s blogs. Indoctrination of children and destruction of their precious lives, hopes and futures are the responsibility and concern of their parents. The protect of these parental concerns is the responsibility of our schools; and if our school board doesn’t recognize this, they’ll make our public school system more hostile and unsafe than ever before. "

Lizzy wrote on Aug 31, 2007 10:14 AM:

" Take the Gay statement out and what do you have? Students bullying other students. The parents of those kids who hurt, belittle, and ostrasize others need to take a stand and do something to show the bullies how inappropriate that behavior is. I am teaching my children that acceptance of all sorts of people is tantamount to creating a harmonious environment for all and if they do see something like bullies hurting someone to jump in and help those who need help. I teach through my behavior. Who cares what religion people are? Who cares what their sexual preference is? People are still people deserving respect and kindness. "

A question wrote on Aug 30, 2007 2:55 PM:

" If you think that it's just because they are gay that they are being descriminiated against, think again. They are being descriminated against because they are different. Having a Christian family with Christian values, and Christian kids in school opens your eyes to this truth. Christians are not allowed to share their beliefs, and values in schools or workplaces anymore, yet are specifically required to do by the faith they profess. I for 1 am a Christian who does extend the hand of friendship to homosexual individuals. I have gay friends, and they know that I am a Christian who cares about them as an individual. I've had, interestingly enough, more discussions about faith matters with gay individuals than straight. This I believe, is truely what Jesus would have us do. "

Toto everyone wrote on Aug 30, 2007 9:42 AM:

" Come on " the gay controversy" is over. We have all moved over to the guns in high school page! "

Dear "Comfortably Gay" wrote on Aug 30, 2007 12:05 AM:

" While I can certainly appreciate your own personal story- your story is not everybody's story. Some folks are more self-aware from an early age. And not everybody shares your priorities for partying, sports, etc. Sounds like you lead a good life that works well for you. But that's the point- that's YOUR life. Continued best wishes to ya! "

To everyone: wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:30 AM:

" We all know that gays aren't going away and people that don't accept them aren't going away. But will everyone please stop commenting on old news so this blog will go away. "

Comfortably Gay wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:28 AM:

" This is why people should wait until college or later to come out of the closet. In high school I had an idea, but I was more concerned with getting straight A's and playing football. As an undergraduate I was more concerned with getting A's, partying and getting into grad school. As an adult I had figured it out and gradually came out and I'm comfortable, successful and have no problems. People should concentrate on being a person instead of being a gay person. "

TO: "What are These Parents Thinking?" wrote on Aug 29, 2007 2:15 AM:

" In response to your last sentence: "Bullying begins at school and often finds its way into the workplaces of America. " My opinion? It also clearly often finds itself in public opinion threads at online community newspapers too. "

What are These Parents Thinking? wrote on Aug 29, 2007 12:04 AM:

" I really don't care about the religious implications of being gay. That is not what concerns me at all. I have a very good friend who is gay and I think everyone has their own right to live their life as they choose. That being said, what are these parents thinking exposing their kids' sexual orientations to the public? Gee, you think they were bullied before? Just wait. I will hope for the best for these children. Oh, and I was bullied in high school. I hated it. But I didn't make a big deal about it. It's time for parents and society as a whole to quit making excuses anytime something goes wrong. Life is hard and kids don't need parents to draw attention to them at their schools. It's not just happening at schools either. Bullying begins at school and often finds its way into the workplaces of America. "

To Another lying closet-case EXPOSED wrote on Aug 28, 2007 10:34 PM:

" So true - I couldn't have said it better myself!!! It just proves that we have no business judging others - no ones closets are skeleton free!! Can't we all just get along, and live by the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have done unto you - it's really not a hard concept. "

Na, dude... wrote on Aug 28, 2007 3:21 PM:

" It might be CRAZY over at YOUR house, but for most of America it makes quite a bit of sense. What's fair is fair. Easy stuff. "

Disliking Gays? Why? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 2:14 PM:

" I've discussed this topic every which way with my wife and our teen son and we just don't get it. We don't get how anyone anywhere can have any kind of problem with gays. We don't find it wrong, questionable or distasteful at all- and we're having trouble figuring out why it is that some people do. Also- I had thought all along too that many folks against gay equality rights truthfully perceived that gays were seeking extra-ordinary, indeed "special" rights... but according to a recent post here, the whole thing is about gays simply wanting normal, everyday rights that all straight people have always had. So what gives? I'm new to this line of discussion and am hoping someone can enlighten... Again- we're just not gettin' it. Not one bit. "

It's coming... wrote on Aug 28, 2007 2:11 PM:

" I can't wait until some other freak comes out with a "I love my sheep, I want to marry it" and causes a stir like this perversion. Think it's crazy? This gay marriage crap was crazy not 20 years ago. "

To New Father wrote on Aug 28, 2007 2:10 PM:

" Just wait, chuckles. Those kids are too 'sweet and innocent' to cause you much stress. Wait till they are around 5. lol "

New father wrote on Aug 28, 2007 1:12 PM:

" I'm typing now as my 5 month old twin girls nap not 8 feet away from me. I can't think of a single thing these precious girls could do that would bring out an anger and hate in me as strong as it seems so many here are able to express. Even if they were to turn out gay I couldn't ever become that venomous. What scares me though is the number of people here who seem to accept bullying in schools as normal and acceptable. It makes me wonder how many here were actually school-bullies themselves, as much of the behavior shown here indeed seems overly aggressive and mean-spirited. I pray to God that my girls never attend class with your children- if you've raised them to think the same way as you. "

Another lying closet-case EXPOSED! wrote on Aug 28, 2007 12:16 PM:

" Say what you want about gay people but it sure seems their numbers are growing by leaps and bounds… Not only are more and more brave and honest gay folks coming out in the open each year- even young people and teens… but it seems every month one of our beloved closeted married w/ children ultra-conservative right-wing members gets caught or uncovered leading a double life. Our pastors, our coaches and boy-scout leaders… our congressmen… Even Idaho Senators- as of yesterday… Wow. I never even knew there were gay people in Idaho! I’ve been gay my whole life but I’ve never solicited sex from a stranger in an airport men’s room. Now we hear that there have been these rumors of the senator’s “hobby” since way back in the early 80’s. Ha! That’s just freaky. Ya gotta love anti-gay, two-faced, right-wing liars! I say expose them all! "

Hey: "To: Dear "Stupid"..." wrote on Aug 28, 2007 11:56 AM:

" Oh- I get it. My mistake... by "special rights" I earlier presumed you meant imaginary, made-up rights no others have. What you refer to though is the extra-long list of rights YOU have already, that gay people feel it's high time they get extended too. Well now- that's a whole different thing. Now you're completely EASY to disregard and ignore... for a moment there I thought you were serious and considered yourself a force to be reckoned with! Go back to bed, bud- you're completely irrellevant. "

To: Dear "Stupid"... wrote on Aug 28, 2007 10:16 AM:

" What special rights? Marriage for one. it's only for a man and a woman. Two, along that is taxation rights. Again, you don't qualify, you shouldn't force the issue based on your perversion. Next, getting special protection at schools, when here's a shocker, everyone gets poked fun of in school. Toughen up. Can't have the 10 commandments in the classroom, but we can promote biological perversions. Oh, and for all you claiming it's not a perversion...try to have natural kids with two dudes or two women...doh, you can't. Perversion. "

Absolutely agree with you, "Gone astray" wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:40 PM:

" If the adults here were being graded for the appropriate relevance of their answers and how well they read the questions and considered their replies, they would absoultey ALL FAIL their writing assignment. This is a textbook example of the type of learning stuff any school-teacher should provide their young students with to illustrate the importantce of LISTENING and THINKING. Two things that most adults here obviously grossly under-appreciate. "

I agree with a couple of recent posts here... wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:04 PM:

" I'm getting pretty sick and tired of this whole subject... when people KEEP bringing this up and KEEP bringing it up... it starts to look like the folks involved in the debate have these grandoise self-imporant delusions and that begins to tarnish your position after a few weeks of it... Like another poster wrote: "Just STOP IT"! Cripes, already! "

Know what gay folks? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:01 PM:

" My recommendation? STOP lowering yourselves to even put the subject out there on the table for discussion! This is a private matter best left in your own homes and within the confines of a court-room! When you come public with it it just opens you up to all kinds of backwards ridicule, judgement and condemnation. WHY so public? I don't talk with you about what me and my wife do in our own home, do I? Keep it private, like I do! I support you. I'm all for equality- I promise! But I'm sick and freakin' tired of all the big-mouthed church folks here and you darned gay folks just keep egging them on! Enuf already! STOP IT! I'm about to toss my lunch! "

I'm a community-member with a definite opinion wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:57 PM:

" on this matter, but u know what? I was raised to be a good neighbor and keep my opinions to myself. I would no more comment on a gay person and their relationship than I would any marriage on my block or in my work-place. It's simply completely inappropriate and totally in POOR TASTE. And that's my two cents, bub! "

Dear: "I remember" wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:53 PM:

" Bud- are you SURE you remember? Because I've read your brief post frontwards, backwards and sideways and I for the life of me can't quite figure out at all what it is you're trying to communicate. Can someone say "Alzheimers"??????? "

Dear "Stupid"... wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:52 PM:

" Remind me again please... what "special" rights do gay people want? (by the way- congrats on choosing the PERFECT name for yourself! Job VERY well done, dude!) "

Gone astray wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:35 PM:

" I wish all the folks who keep writing about every possible issue relating to homosexuality would go back and re-read Edith Brady-Lunny's article. Then maybe they could write something relevant about the topics it covered. These include: Should GLBT students be able to be open about their sexuality in school? Should they be free from physical and verbal abuse? And should school districts be held responsible if they fail to protect, or even add to the abuse of this young people? There's room for argument about some of these questions, but I can think of no justification for allowing or fomenting child abuse, no matter what its cause. "

to A choice wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:20 PM:

" Why should a gay person choose a life of abstinence just to please busybody Christians with no bedroom lives of their own? "

to I remember wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:19 PM:

" You're comparing an occupation to sexual orientation? Wow. "

I remember wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:54 PM:

" I can definitly remember the first time I choose to have hetrosexual sex. (I hope that I never forget.) Participation is the key point to any activity. Just because I would like to paint my house, does not make me a house-painter. "

This may have been said already, but... wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:49 PM:

" I want to say that there is only ONE judge, and that judge is definately not of this earth. So who we to judge anyone? To those who say that the bible tells us homosexuals are going to hell - that is not for you or me to decide. God will decide that. Can you choose the color of your skin? Or what country you come from? Then how can you "choose" to be homosexual? Like several others have asked, did you choose to be straight? Why would you choose a life where you constantly have to be afraid of what society thinks? It's a terrible shame that the gay comunity has to deal with that all the time in this country. "

Stupid wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:45 PM:

" More special rights for 'special' people. Sorry gays, you get no special rights from me. "

A choice wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:37 PM:

" Choosing to participate in homosexual relation is just that. A choice. One obvious alternative that is rejected is abstinance. Where children such as this are involved, this should be the ideal choice. "

To: help me understand wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:57 AM:

" To list a few, read previous post “To “Parent In Bloomington wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:17 PM” which states: "I’ve had those things and more done to me in school, but it wasn’t because I didn’t appreciate my gender or the opposite sex. None of those things should happen to children, but it’s evil and unconstitutional for you to try to make the school board bow their knees to your desire to force children, religious and non-religious, to deny their personal convictions of right and wrong and tell you what you want to hear: that homosexuality is natural, that they approve of it, that children don’t need a daddy and a mommy, that they believe you when you say homosexual acts are no less healthy than monogamous heterosexual ones." "

Hey: "Once again" wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:04 AM:

" Don't you realize that many things from the public cannot appear in print for reasons ranging from endangerment of those NAMED in the article to liability issues? I too know of many from OHS who have submitted pieces here who have not seen them published. In nearly all the cases it is because the things they write and offer introduce real risk and possible harm to those actually NAMED within the article. Maybe if you submitted a piece devoid of personal anger, severity and judgment "aimed" at the principles within the original article, and commented only generally on the issue and offered an enlightened piece that truly contained only facts you'd see it printed. Until you offer a piece that doesn't run the risk of harm to specifically-named persons, you probably won't see it printed. And the rest of us here are likely better off NOT being exposed to your piece if it's that potentially dangerous. "

Once again~~ wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:07 AM:

" the Pantagraph does a number on news. Folks go through some of these articles and you will see some of them are printed twice! Is this to increase the number of write inn's to make it look more controversial? You knew up front this would create all sorts of people expressing an opinion. Well, except for two opinions. I wrote one and a group of girls that go to this school wrote one and you didn't want to hear any of the truths we wrote. This newpaper is only searching for news that causes problems not the truth. These girls were only expressing their opinion as to what they see in school concerning this situation. Someone needs to come down on this paper and make them print the truth and let people express the opinion of truth for others to read. Now go ahead and delete this, at least YOU get the point even if you don't let it show!!!!! "

proud daughter wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:13 AM:

" i see were these kida are comming from....i went to ncwhs and bhs and my mother is gay.....i do not know how it is to be in hs and gay but i do know what it is like to be in grade school as well as hs with a gay parent...let me tell you it is not easy.....people look at different and everyone judges you.....every girl that knew about my mother looked at me like i was going to try and do something to them....sp i know somewhat how you all feel i know its not easy. "

help me understand wrote on Aug 26, 2007 9:51 AM:

" A few random thoughts that may sound like baiting, but are actually real questions: how do you know if someone chose being gay or not? Did you choose to be straight? Also, how are gay people trying to push their perverted way of life on the public? I don't recall anyone anywhere saying everyone should be gay. What am I missing? It seems to me that it is (some) straight people who are trying to push their way of life on everyone. And here's the real question: why do you care? I don't care what other people do in their houses between consenting adults. What I do care about is whether other people have the same rights and dignities as others. Help me understand, for example, how gay people wanting to make health decisions for each other threatens your world.... "

What?? wrote on Aug 26, 2007 6:22 AM:

" I don't want to paint my dog........that would be just stupid. I would however like to have a recognizable relationship with my other half. We're both men who just happen to be gay. "

Little Johnnie wrote on Aug 26, 2007 2:50 AM:

" I wanna hate someone so I got a hate list. I hate Natzis...is that one OK? I hate child molesters...Is that one OK? I hate rapests....Is that one Ok? I hate poverty....is that one OK? I hate ignorance...is that one OK? I hate bigotry...is that one OK? I hate starvation...is that one OK? I hate cancer....is that one OK? I hate lies....is that one OK? I love........wait aminute. I'm so busy hating I forgot how to love. Someone give me a hug......Please!!! "

DIVERSITY wrote on Aug 26, 2007 1:56 AM:

" diversity is not what you want it to be ,it is accepting indifference. It means at the public schools (black). It means cater to the blacks. If you are gay it means if someone was raised to think being gay is wrong and they are strongly against it they are a redneck hillbilly. Diversity should apply to everyone. whites too. Give the kids a chance, all of them.We have moved away from neighborhood schools and mixed everyone together, does it work??. It also seems alot more people home school and the private schools are really starting to grow here in b/n. Also alot of women running the middle and high schools in town?? WHY!! Do they have the kids respect? It looks like to me the kids are running the schools. Why is this?? I say the discipline is absent and unacceptable in our public schools. To much emotion and personal feelings involved in running things ladies(stick to business and be fair to everyone doing there job not just your buddies and butt kissers. Sorry gay kids but if the ladies running their schools don't like gays you are S.O.L "

Khrist Almighty! wrote on Aug 26, 2007 1:05 AM:

" I sure don't know when you folks- my neighbors and friends- started gettin all the time to care and butt into other folks business but it aint the way I was raised and it makes me nuts to see that so darned many of ya's seem to have taken to having such opinions about stuff that ain't got nothing to do with you or your lives. I'm a local farmer and business owner and I ain't got the right to judge or remark on the lives of any of the people who walk through my door. I've seen there be room for all kinds of folks in this community as far as I'm concerned someone gay is pretty much near top of the list as far as folks doing their part and steppin-up. Some of you need to take a step back and start minding your own row of corn! "

Advice to youngin's: wrote on Aug 25, 2007 5:47 PM:

" Reading here, one might think there’s not much appreciation for diversity out there. Don’t allow negative sentiments shared by a few to cause you alarm. I was raised, & have lived here most of my 41 years & let me say- as a gay man I’ve never had a bad experience related to my orientation in our community. This place is like all places- there are folks from all persuasions- varied backgrounds & opinions. Of course there are those less capable of understanding- but the number isn’t nearly as high as the postings here might have you believe. The golden rule in community life “You get back what you give” applies to all- even we gay folks. Keep plugging away, & you’ll find there is no shortage of neighbors, employers, businesses, churches & organizations who directly appreciate & support you- or who really could care less who you love or feel drawn to. Stay aware of the fact that to be part of ANY community you MUST fill YOUR important role & CONTRIBUTE. Do this & you won’t be diverted. Life is rich- even here in B/N & in the outlying smaller towns. Trust me. "

Dear, kind "Gay Lifestyles are an Abomination" wrote on Aug 25, 2007 3:45 PM:

" ...and pray tell... what exactly is it about your particular post that makes you expect a response from anyone on any level? "

??? wrote on Aug 25, 2007 1:49 PM:

" I thought it was guilt and shame at first too. But what would he have to be guilty or ashamed about if he now is open about his lifestyle? He talks less and less to his family, especially those that have always been there. He barely visits his parents and only calls on them when he needs bailing out of something and then is rude and crude to them. It makes me think he is blaming them for something. I tell him time and time again, that I love him no matter what. But still when I call and leave messages, he wont return my calls..or emails. The only time I hear from him is when he is drunk, and we all know how truthful drunks are. Is it right for me to be mad that he took my friendship away without even asking? Why do I feel so self centered about me when it is not my problem that he is gay. "

to: "Gay lifestyles"... wrote on Aug 25, 2007 9:23 AM:

" I have never seen a more perfect "straw man" fallacy in action since I was in college studying it. Way to discount anyone with a perfectly logical statement; if it in any way goes against your "perfect" fallacy well then, obviously they are already proven wrong. Love the logic! I still stand by this; if a person so-called "chooses" an alternate lifestyle (GLBT), what benefit do they get? Really? Ridicule at best, threats to their physical person and possibly death when radicals attack at worst. No, I don't have any belief that a GLBT "chooses" the way their mind/body drives them to act... From a mother of two children, happily married; lifetime member of the United Church of Christ. "

Can there be wrote on Aug 25, 2007 5:36 AM:

" a more disappointing segment of our population than Christians? "

to: The difference in opinion here as I see it is... wrote on Aug 25, 2007 4:12 AM:

" I agree with you. and of course what this means then logically is gays will win. which is exactly what very recent social hisotry is showing us- the whole world over, in fact. and which is exactly how it should be. To me it's clear that justice is on the side of the wronged, and what's right will prevail. how many instances and situations in the past 2000 years have we looked back on and studied the wrongs inflicted upon the world by those of faith? The church is to blame for disgusting atrocity after disgusting atrocity, and this is but another of the many "witch hunts"... "

Gay Lifestyles are an Abomination wrote on Aug 25, 2007 3:12 AM:

" If the censors let this pass I am awaiting for the barrage of remarks from degenerates defending their warped perspectives. If a man paints his dog orange and ties him in front of his house on a busy street everyday for a year, people begin to get used to seeing it. After so long a time the dog does not appear quite so unusual. If the man two doors down decides to paint his dog green and leaves it out front long enough, the passerbys eventually get used to that. Gays keep pushing their perverted way of life on the general public and they are a pushy lot. The problem is regardless of how radical and flamboyant they are, they as the painted dogs will never be accepted by the mainstream of society. Why should they be? They are a true abomination that runs against the grain of both pro creation and morality. Now that this has been said lets see another 600 responses by the same 24 homosexuals trying to convince the rest of the world that they are right. "

The difference in opinion here as I see it is... wrote on Aug 25, 2007 12:21 AM:

" those "against" gays are defending their BELIEFS, while those who are gay are defending their very SELVES. Those against are defending a CONCEPT while gays are defending their very PHYSICAL PERSONS in some cases. Quite an uneven playing field. Clearly those "against" enjoy the privilege of DISCONNECT in this battle. Maybe once those "against" realize this, they'll change and improve their approach. There's a lot of room for cleaning up and improving the battle tactics here... and I don't blame gays- hell they're having their blood drawn! "

BOBBY wrote on Aug 24, 2007 11:25 PM:

" WOW!!! Everybody had to file in the gym today so we could pay homage to the football jocks. Gonna battle for our schools honor tonight. Mandatory that we attend pep rally!!!!! Made fun of the fat girl again hahaha. Got ask to homecoming!!!! Sweet!!!!! Hes' a junior I think. My science teacher thinks I have all this time to do homework over the weekend...what a dweeb!! Math rocks though cause my peps is all in the same class with me. Nobody got harrassed today I don't think. Luv ya all see ya tomorrow. "

yep wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:52 PM:

" the most commented on article in two weeks "

to To To the Bible wrote on Aug 24, 2007 3:25 PM:

" There are bad apples in every bunch. Some teenagers somewhere commited a crime. Are all teenagers bad? Some old man ran down some people in a market. Are all old people bad drivers? Some woman drowned her kids in a lake. Are all mothers murderers? Some gay people go cruising in the park for some lovin'. Are all gay people criminals? Some religious leaders hire homosexual prostitutes and take meth. Do all religious leaders engage in such illegal, hypocritcal activities? There was a black man who killed a bunch of people. Are all black people murderers? The answer to all of these questions is NO. "

to To BOBBY from someone wrote on Aug 24, 2007 3:20 PM:

" Yeah, being free thinking is horrible. I wish I could be beholden to a book that has been rewritten dozens of times by various kinds and authority figures to suit their own power needs and a god that has never shown himself. I wish I could be easily manipulated by cries of "God hates that!" "

Shouldn't be about religion wrote on Aug 24, 2007 11:08 AM:

" This topic should have nothing to do with religion. I understand people are going to misinterpret God's word to hate homosexuals, but that's the whole reason we have separation of church and state in this country. That is exactly why we were founded as a secular nation. The LAW states that no one can be discriminated against due to sexual orientation, color, religion, race, etc. and if a school refuses to enforce that law they should be held accountable. Whether you are homophobic or not, these kids do not deserve to getting harrassed. Simple. "

To BOBBY from someone wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:49 AM:

" Actually they took down the 'full education shouldn't leave god out of the picture' letter out of the 'most commented' section. So I vote we hold the 'battle' over 'culture war' here. This should be the new home for the fight between the righteous and the gay, atheist, communist, abortionist, and other free thinking types that are destroying America! "

Poor gay kids... wrote on Aug 24, 2007 6:40 AM:

" they ain't got a chance in hell in this town. What a bunch a bumpkins! "

BOBBY wrote on Aug 24, 2007 1:18 AM:

" This is not a debate about god or religion. Its a debate about GLBT being harassed at school. Well I think I will ask the girl with the purple hair if she got harassed at school. See the skinny guy with the pimples and thick glasses......ask him if he got harassed. I know the chubby girl did cause I made fun of her myself. Two jocks walked down the hall yesterday and intentionally bumped into people knocking their books from their hands. (it was funny). I want to tell you about the locker room but I'm to imbarrassed. All this happened today. See ya all tomorrow!!!! PS: The guy next to me in science has stinky feet. Should I say something? "

I Agree wrote on Aug 23, 2007 11:47 PM:

" Anyone interested in a public firum? Obviously this is an important topic to many different people. Not only in Bloomington, but ethically, morally, compassionately, we all have different views. Let's quit wasting our time writing back and forth anonomously and have a town meeting and air it all out. There can be a resolution to all of it. "

To Voice of Reason wrote on Aug 23, 2007 8:54 PM:

" Oh yeah, you're "bemg" (being) intelligent, alright. You were being as demeaning as the bullies in the article. "

Chris wrote on Aug 23, 2007 6:17 PM:

" it makes me sad to think that grown adults think god wants them to hate children "

to: brenstalka wrote on Aug 23, 2007 5:27 PM:

" get a life "

Church Lady wrote on Aug 23, 2007 4:32 PM:

" Well, isn't that just special? "

Jeff's Grandmother wrote on Aug 23, 2007 3:51 PM:

" It reminds me of this thing that I read in my Urban Legends calendar one day. It said that Bert & Ernie on Sesame Street are gay partners. It turned out to be completely bogus, but I laughed when I read that. Then this guy who sits on the side of the floor heard me, and he came running over and said "What are you reading that's so amusing... is it a piece of code in a program?". And I said "No, it's not even work-related". Then the guy got mad and had a seizure. It was funny. Also, New Rule: Nobody talks to Jeff's Grandmother. "

To:Scientist wrote on Aug 23, 2007 12:01 PM:

" I read an article in the DISCOVER magazine with the title "Science And Islam" on the cover - in that article the interviewed Geologist Zaghloul El-Naggar who is a leading figure in their country made this statement: "He grieves for Western colleagues who spend all of their time studying their areas of specialization but neglect their souls; he is also grieved by how the West has "legalized" homosexuality...further stating that "you are bringhing man far below the level of animals". "

to brenstalka wrote on Aug 23, 2007 10:42 AM:

" You are obviously confused and aroused! "

Re:??? wrote on Aug 23, 2007 10:21 AM:

" Ignore all this BS from these zealots below. My brother came out to me a few years ago. I was just really sad for him. It explained a lot about his life, and I was sad that for so many years he had to go through this alone. I don't think my brother made a choice at all. The only choice he made was to finally be happy. Just show your brother the love and support he needs. He may be acting different to you because he still is afraid that you aren't comfortable with his life. My brother did the same thing... and I told him that of course I would assume that if he were gay.. he would also have relationships. I invited him and his partner out for drinks... and that broke the ice. Now, his partner is just a member of the family. My brother is happier than I have ever seen him, and I think he see's that the whole family loves him no matter what. "

Brenstalka wrote on Aug 23, 2007 8:12 AM:

" Yet another reason people shouldn't choose to be gay. "

Scientist wrote on Aug 23, 2007 8:09 AM:

" The word Christian means "little Christ." By that definition I'd say that that probably cuts the number of true Christians in half. If I have interpreted this "cult" correctly, Man is not in a position to judge anyway! I'd say that most of your homophobia stems from your own insecurities. Did you know that there are many research projects being done on morality? And so far there is no correlation between religious belief and "moral" behavior. If anything, scientists say that our capacity to do good for our fellow man comes from empathy and altruism brought on as a product of evolutionary processes. Kind of blows a whole in all of these fundamentalist ideas that blame violence and mayhem on not having "god" in the schools, huh! If anything the devout "believer" is more prone to violence and destruction. "

To ?????? wrote on Aug 23, 2007 5:03 AM:

" I think your brothers problem is both guilt and shame. He knows his CHOICE OF LIFESTYLE "

So easy to argue: part 1 and 2 wrote on Aug 22, 2007 11:04 PM:

" Thanks God. I guess I'll just have to disagree with God then. I just have a hard time discriminating against someone for doing something that has absolutely nothing to do with me and does not affect anyone but themselves and their lover. But i do wonder, since the sexually immoral will not be recieved into the kindom of heaven does that mean Thomas Jefferson (children with slaves), JKF (numerous affairs), Bill Clinton, half the Republican presidential candidates among millions of others will not be accepted into the kindgom of heaven. But you won't argue with me because I'm not allowed to have an opinion since God's word stands alone, even though there are millions with a different interpretation of God's word than yours. Sweet cop out you coward. "

Teaching Respect? wrote on Aug 22, 2007 8:59 PM:

" Expecting respect from Jr. High and High School is asking too much. At this age, these kids are doing well to refrain from Freshman initiation. "

??? wrote on Aug 22, 2007 8:46 PM:

" My brother came out of the closet recently. He said he was still the same person he use to be. So he is gay.. big deal. He and I use to be best friends.I always know when he has a new lover. HE won't speak to me when a new one comes along. ANyone want to help me out here to understand why his coming out of the closet has changed his attitude toward me? "

To So easy to argue: Part 2 wrote on Aug 22, 2007 8:26 PM:

" Romans 1:26 also gives reference to lesbians. Not inheriting the kingdom of God means that the sin will keep them out of heaven. Homosexuality is a result of people exchanging the truth of God for a lie. They begin to worship and serve the creature, i.e; each other than the creator. God gave them up to shameful lusts. In other words, God said if that's what you want to do then go. Men burned in lust for one another. God gave them over to a debased mind to do the things they shouldn't do. These references come from Romans 1:25-28. Verse 32 says those who do such things are deserving of death. You can answer this post and discount it, but I won't be answering back because #1 I won't argue with you and #2 God's Word stands on its own. "

To So easy to argue: Part 1 wrote on Aug 22, 2007 8:25 PM:

" There's no need to answer your challenge because you won't accept it anyway. Your problem starts with refusing to believe in God's Word. But since you believe He didn't write it, given by His Spirit through men, you can justify your actions. Just so you know I'm not writing this post in an argumentative frame of mind. You can't argue the gospel. It is only received by people who are prompted so by the Holy Spirit. Since you asked for some scripture references, how about 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. 9"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. "

GET A GRIP STILL wrote on Aug 22, 2007 8:13 PM:

" All of this controversy should show us (as human beings) that maybe instead of typing anonomously that we should get together and try to settle the differences. It's not about God or the bible, it's about a human being. If all agree to meet and discuss ideas, beliefs and feelings, experiences and our past, it could work. The only people who wouldn't agree to a forum are the people who claim that they are above others. EVERYONE knows that EVERYONE has something in their closet. A true believer of life, forgiveness and understanding will not hesitate to go.It's about peace and love and compassion. Just out of curiosity, how many of you people that quote the bible are veterans.? Ever killed because your country said so? Ever got high? I am a Christian, with my own God, and I am a TRUE advocate for living in peace. I am a lesbian. I also have a 20 year old son that has killed people in Iraq. More controversy. Do I believe in the war? No. Am I proud that my son served our supposedly wonderful country? YES. Is he going to hell because he killed? I don't believe so. "

Gotta Be Kidding Me wrote on Aug 22, 2007 7:43 PM:

" TO NO WAY: How can you be a widow/widower and be gay? According to the nut cases that have written prior to me, it isn't possible because the bible doesn't say so, and if it is, you're going to hell. Also, if you can't be honest with yourself or your children, how honest are you in other aspects of your life- personally or professionally? "

What is Sin? wrote on Aug 22, 2007 5:20 PM:

" You don't even know what sin is, have you ever stolen anything, anything at all? even as a child? then you are a sinner and have broken God's 10 commandments, his most serious definitions of sin. Have you looked at someone of the opposite sex, (or same) in a lustful manner? YES! Then you are a sinner in the eyes of God, and he is the only one that matters. There is a way around being condemned though, ask around. "

judging? wrote on Aug 22, 2007 5:18 PM:

" who's doing that? i'm saying if you believe what the Bible says and i do you are agreeing with what God is saying. that is not judging. of course only God has that power. "

So easy to argue wrote on Aug 22, 2007 5:17 PM:

" I am challenging all of you right here. Please take me up on it. Quote the verses in the bible in which God (even though he did not write the bible) says homosexuality is a sin. You are all so quick to quote these verses, yet not one has pertained to homosexuality. And while you're at it summarize the context of what is being said in that portion. I think you may be suprised. But please, please just enlighten us all. Show us where the bible tells us gays are evil. "

Re: some post below wrote on Aug 22, 2007 4:16 PM:

" You said that there were no gay people in your church... well.... DUH! Have you read what your fellow Christians are writing below? You expect a gay person to come to any church when they are full of so much judgement and hate. Who knew that God gave his right to judge others to so many of his followers. "

Shocked Christian! wrote on Aug 22, 2007 4:14 PM:

" I am a 58 yo women who was raised in the church. My father was a pastor, and I cannot believe what I am reading below from my fellow Christians. It is not up to us to judge anyone on this earth. God created a path for each of us, and it is up to us to find his path. I don't care what choices anyone makes on this earth. I will always show them compassion and love. That is my duty as a Christian. For all of you gay people who feel blighted by the church, I will say a prayer for you. Please don't let God out of your heart. He will show you the way if you only believe in him and his power. God has a reason for each choice he makes, and it is not up to any of us to question him on his choices. "

Bruce wrote on Aug 22, 2007 4:13 PM:

" All the arguments in the world will not make a lie the truth! "

I just wish wrote on Aug 22, 2007 3:43 PM:

" that all of you spending this much time on here would spend your efforts on making the world better, rather than worse. I wish that your efforts were put to good use. Like maybe you could be out looking for the real sinners like gangs, murderers, rapists, etc... Then we could say that you were true christians with peoples' best interests at heart. "

Some of you wrote on Aug 22, 2007 3:38 PM:

" are asking gay people to keep their sexuality to themselves. Well, maybe you should keep your opinion to yourselves. What hipocrites. And for the one who said that homosexuals go looking for gays and show affection in front of your families, maybe you should be telling the heteorosexuals that. I see more public affection with heterosexuals in restaurants, malls, etc... And I am appauled by anybody who chooses to make out in front of my kids. It shouldn't be just about the "gay" people making out. You're just afraid that being gay is like the plague. Don't worry you won't get it, and your kids won't get it. There's nothing contagious about being gay. Maybe some of you should be more worried about catching hatred. What bigots!!! "

Re: The Bible wrote on Aug 22, 2007 3:13 PM:

" You said.. "To The Gay man".... and a load of other BS. What is the purpose of your post. Not only is it beyond stupid.. it makes no sense. Why don't you tell me what my theology about God should be since YOU think it is so wrong. Why don't you also tell me about Gay people since you seem to be the expert on that as well. This whole board seems to be full of experts. "

To: TO: The bible wrote on Aug 22, 2007 9:25 AM: part 2 wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:56 PM:

" It's better than being broad or open-minded when it comes to what God calls sin. I believe homosexuality is a sin as God says it is sin. So are many other things we do today. It's only as we make a conscious not to do the things that God says not to do, homosexuality being just one of them, that we can follow Him and enter through the narrow gate "

To: TO: The bible wrote on Aug 22, 2007 9:25 AM: part 1 wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:56 PM:

" You wrote: "YOU SO CALLED CHRISTIANS MAKE ME SICK!!! I am a devout christian and you narrow minded, bigotted people give me and the rest of us a bad name." That sounds like a hate statement to me. God is love. If you hate then God is not in you. I am a Christian and I love everybody. But as a Christian I must hate what God hates. God hates sin. I hate sin, even though I sin. I don't however hate the sinner and neither does God. When it comes to sin I guess I am narrow minded. Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. I know that this verse is not referring to one's mind. It means that many are seeking the road to life and few will find it. So as for me I'm narrow minded and that's okay. . "

TO Funny isn't it? PART 2 wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:40 PM:

" It's called a double edged sword partner.......for those who do not accept the gift on Jesus, eternity of not knowing and being with God, which is return is pure pain, tortue, burning, ect........for those who do accept Christ is Lord.....and make their lives about becoming like Jesus Christ and continuing growing in relationship with the living God.....eternal life in heaven with God..... "

TO Re: The Bible wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:37 PM:

" Dear gay man, I have many questions for you ....but for times sake.......who is God? Where did you even get this idea there is a God? Who is God to you and how did you come about this? Your theology is what is backwards.....funny how you admit gay people alot of times want to commit suicide....which is contrary to what you gays proclaim..."become gay and be free"....something is not adding up in your equation.......please answer oh gay one! "

TO Jenkins wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:32 PM:

" Jenks.....get a counsler.....you have some built up hurt. Man up brother.......stop the crying..... "

TO Reconciling wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:29 PM:

" Correct.......however what point exactly are you trying to make?? Followers of Christ, a.ka. christians, if the line of with God's word, then they would be against homosexuality....however, I would agree that we are called to love them unconditionally. That does not mean to agree, encourage, or think it's "ok" to act outside God's design. "

To Re:To The Bible wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:12 PM:

" Had you not been so quick to rush to judgement and read all posts preceeding mine you would have seen that I was responding to a previous post. Since you have came out with fangs and claws exposed let me tell you this. You say you are Chri