Pantagraph.com | News | Two people injured in school bus accident

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

a reader wrote on Aug 20, 2007 3:37 PM:

" that intersection is bad on the best of days... don't blame the bus driver or the corn or the fog... blame those who are in charge of making 4 way stops... that intersection is screamming for a 4 way stop... and those ridges right before a stop sign for those coming in from the north. "

Engineer wrote on Aug 18, 2007 9:57 PM:

" That intersection has been studied more than once. Speed limit on Linden is 45 both directions, down from 50 just a couple years ago. Sight distance is adequate, and traffic volumes (# of cars per day and per hour) do not warrant a 4-way stop or traffic signals. The overgrown vegetation and weather conditions can (and should) be addressed, but the best way to keep crashes at this intersection to a minimum is for drivers on Linden St. to abide by the speed limit and for drivers on Northtown to use proper judgment in the decision of when to cross. Seems like a much simpler, less invasive, less costly solution. "

Svendana wrote on Aug 18, 2007 9:19 PM:

" Cut down that dam corn! "

Another bus driver wrote on Aug 18, 2007 7:08 PM:

" Most of you are judging this driver without ever driving a bus. When you stop and proceed in a bus, it takes some extra time to get the whole bus across the intersection. Some buses are faster than others. Try to imagine if there were a bus full of kids on that bus...some kids are yelling, misbehaving, etc. and it would have been a lot more distraction at that intersection. In a car there has been a lot of people ALMOST getting hit there. A car takes off much faster than a bus. This was a new driver, not used to a bus like you are with your car. Just be thankful your kids were not on that bus. Not like she deliberately pulled out in the path of that truck on purpose. You were not there. You should not judge till you have walked a mile in her moccasins. "

mom wrote on Aug 18, 2007 5:05 PM:

" we are thankful to God for His protecting hand on those involved yesterday. Yes there are injuries..a broken jaw bone, cuts, bruises, and aches. But we know it could have been much worse for all parties involved. I feel bad for the residents of this area.... it is dangerous.. proceed w/caution. Sounds as if this has been a problem for many... once again I thank God you've all made it through alive. I drove 12 1/2 hours yesterday to be here w/my son. He will heal and we realize how fortunate we are. Thanks to those who expressed concern. "

Char wrote on Aug 18, 2007 2:03 PM:

" Since I am a bus driver for Unit 5, and have had to cross that intersection on occasion in my bus and my personal car, let me express my opinion, until you have been there and can't see north on Linden, Please don't judge. I personally think a four way stop would be appropriate. I feel the driver of the truck was exceeding the 45 MPH limit, considering the extent of the damage to the vehicles. "

I think~ wrote on Aug 18, 2007 2:00 PM:

" it should be LAW that the corn that is too close to roads be cut down. It would be a positive, not a negative in doing so. I think of the young man from LeRoy passing from a car accident due to the corn being a derrant. I'm not saying this is the answer, but it's an answer. I hope all involved is ok, and my heart goes to the young man and family in LeRoy. "

that is stupid wrote on Aug 18, 2007 9:08 AM:

" why should the bus driver recive a ticket? were they suppose to sit there all day? if fog and tall corn played a factor in this accident, first of all fields should not extend that close to an intersection and 2nd did the tractor have lights on? if the bus driver did everything that is legal by law when it comes to fog no one should have recived a ticket it was an act of god. In the 2nd place there should be a law that corn fields cannot be so close to intersections. i know farmers need to make a living and i appreciate them but i also belive in brains and safty my childern are on these country roads. "

Not THAT hard... wrote on Aug 18, 2007 8:39 AM:

" I've been at this intersection a million times. It's not that hard. East/West bound people wait at a stop sign while North/south bound Linden drivers drive the posted speed limit. When it's clear, all clear, you go. I've almost been hit numerous times going North/South bound and it's almost always because people are TOO impatient at the stop signs. They think waiting an extra 5 seconds to let my tail end clear is TOO much hassle/work. It's really not that hard. "

McLean Co and Normal: wrote on Aug 18, 2007 8:12 AM:

" Please get your engineers to review this intersection; work together to create a safer corner for everyone! Unit 5 - many of your school busses travel this intersection - show some leadership and insist on a change! "

Big Man wrote on Aug 18, 2007 7:51 AM:

" Notice the bus drivers name was not listed. The reason being probably because the bus driver was a WOMAN. "

Talk about dangerous wrote on Aug 18, 2007 6:30 AM:

" 24 and old 66 is an accident waiting to happen too. "

Get G.P.S. wrote on Aug 18, 2007 6:02 AM:

" All the talk of dangerous intersections is fine, but the buses on the road at this point in time seem to be an added expense to the taxpayer. Instead of buying all this fuel why don't we use preprogramed GPS that way we save fossil fuel. The additional advantage the vehicles could be tracked in case of emergencies. Is'nt technology wonderful "

To Wendy: wrote on Aug 18, 2007 3:38 AM:

" The north leg of the intersection, which seems to be the source of your concerns, is owned and controlled by the McLean County Highway Department, not the Town of Normal. If you want something changed, you need to contact your County Board Member or the County Engineer. "

not surprised wrote on Aug 18, 2007 1:59 AM:

" That intersection is horrible....the only way to see what's coming is to pull out..a few years ago my brother totaled my car in that intersection when he pulled out in front of a truck that was going 70.....if the corn hadn't been there than he might have had a chance to see the guy coming....they really do need a light there...good thing everyone is ok "

Wendy wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:34 PM:

" That intersection is really a hazard especially with the corn and curve. There is always accidents there and I feel that the Town of Normal should either make it a straightened road with lights right there. I refuse go east or west on Northtown and my in laws live off of there. I actually take Raab to Linden St and then make a right hand turn to head towards their house or I will drive down to Towanda and go through Ironwood. That intersection has always been BAD News and not only the intersection but people always are speeding down Northtown. The Town of Normal really should do something about the intersection though. "

Build wrote on Aug 17, 2007 6:08 PM:

" I find it disgusting that kids need to be bussed to school. BUILD SOME SCHOOLS SO THEY CAN ALL GO CLOSE TO HOME, WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE. Instead of paying helmet head's high wages hat he is planning on increasing! "

scary wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:48 PM:

" I saw an accident at this intersection. The car on Northtown pulled out in front of the car going north on Linden. There were two little kids in the car that ended up flying into the yard of the house on the corner. I still hate going through there. I will avoid it until they put up at least a 4-way stop, even if I have to go out of my way! "

i was there wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:08 PM:

" yes it was bad,, "

JTE wrote on Aug 17, 2007 4:44 PM:

" With the Unit 5 bus barn down Northtown road (south at Eagle Road) and the residential traffic going to Ironwood and the subdivisions norht of Ironwood, there's a lot of potential for accidents there. And when I worked on Eagle Road while living in Hudson, there were a LOT of peole coming south on Linden who were going way over the 55 MPH limit, let alone the lowered limit that starts just north of this intersection. Add in the impatience of a lot of people coming from the east of this intersection to turn south on to Linden (and why did they all seem to be driving over-sized SUV's?) and you have a fataltiy waiting to happen. "

To: Hudsonite to "To Hudsonite" wrote on Aug 17, 2007 4:37 PM:

" I just read your comment, and YES I DO slow down to see if there is a car waiting around the corner. Too many close calls not to! Other roads aren't nearly as busy as Northtown has become, it's a matter of percentages. AND when you have people PULLING OUT IN FRONT OF YOU ALL THE TIME .... "

Lucky wrote on Aug 17, 2007 4:33 PM:

" I travel Linden all the time and have had to slam on my brakes SEVERAL times because of the crossing traffic (and yes I slow down and take extra precaution there - it just doesn't matter!) I hope the city planners wisen up and recognize it as a problem and do something before that bus is loaded with kids! I won't even travel Northtown because of this intersection - anybody who does is taking their life into their own hands. "

To Hudsonite wrote on Aug 17, 2007 3:46 PM:

" No, I'm talking about moving ahead after stopping for the stop sign. The burden is on me, not the corn or weeds, to assess whether the intersection is safe to enter. "

Ironwood Resident wrote on Aug 17, 2007 3:41 PM:

" That corner is especially dangerous right now with the tall corn. Usually it's weeds that haven't been mowed that cause it to be difficult to see when eastbound on Northtown Road. There should be a reduced speed limit as cars approach that intersection, or it should be a 4 way stop. Doubtful the county would spend the money for a traffic light, although the school bus traffic through there is heavy. "

LT wrote on Aug 17, 2007 3:29 PM:

" There was never a problem at that intersection untill the city and zoning board opted to turn it into a residential area. There are many intersections in town where the home owner planted trees and bushes too close to the intersection. If you live withing the city boundaried I suggest you address that issue first. Blaming line of sight is just an excuse to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions. "

Hudsonite to "To Hudsonite" wrote on Aug 17, 2007 3:11 PM:

" So you're telling me that when you are on a road with right of way that you will slow down to 10, 20 or 30 mph in a 45 or 55 mph zone until you can see if any cars are at the intersection waiting to enter? If so, I don't believe you. You would never get where you're going. Between Hudson and Northtown there are at least 3 other intersections with Linden that have limited visibility although none as bad as Northtown. If that's not what you're saying then it doesn't make sense because you'd be describing the direction of traffic that already must slow down and stop before entering the intersection. Do you even drive the roads in question? "

Hudsonite to "To Hudsonite" wrote on Aug 17, 2007 3:11 PM:

JTE wrote on Aug 17, 2007 3:11 PM:

" A. The law requires one to do two things at a stop sign. First, come to a COMPLETE stop at the stop line or the stop sign, whichever is first. Then (which means AFTER a COMPLETE stop) you yeild right-of-way, and after that you proceed with caution. Therefore even if you stop, you can be guilty of failure to yeild. B. It being an accident does not remove responsibility. Too often in these posts after an accident we see folks say "It was an ACCIDENT" as if that means no one is responsible. However in most cases the accident was caused by someone failing to take reasonalbe, prudent, and required cautions. Just because it wasn't intentional doesn't mean that it could not have been prevented with reasonable care. And too often people don't drive like they understand the responsibility operating a vehicle requires. "

Hudsonite to DB wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:55 PM:

" I totally agree and have instructed my teenage drivers to use Kerrick due to good visibility at that intersection. However, I think the Ziebarth intersection is almost as dangerous as Northtown. Higher speeds and bad visibility when heading east on Ziebarth. "

Hudsonite to DB wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:52 PM:

i bet wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:52 PM:

" Whoever created that intersection grew up in Chicago! "

travel everday wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:50 PM:

" I travel North Linden St. everday. That intersection is a fatality waiting to happen. People run the Northtown stop signs, while people on Linden are going way to fast. Stop signs, flashing lights,... something is needed there before more accidents and possible fatalities occur. "

A Careful Driver wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:41 PM:

" I want to echo the comments about Linden and Northtown being an especially bad intersection. I was driving a car that was totalled at this intersection on an October night not too long ago (no fog & no corn.) I was crossing the intersection on Northtown, and misjudged the speed of the oncoming traffic on Linden. I was cited, but I believe it was the excessive speed on the car that hit me that was also partially to blame. A four way stop, and slower posted speed limits, are long overdue here. "

To Hudsonite wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:39 PM:

" Yes, by "oncoming" traffic, I meant traffic coming from the left or right. I disagree that that is an inappropriate use of the word. Again. Slow down, or stop, if your speed (even if it's 10 MPH) keeps you from assessing whether the interersection is safe to enter. "

Long Live Sarcasm wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:24 PM:

" I think some of the bloggers on this site don't have elevators that reach the top floor! (that means not too bright for the sarcastically-challenged) "

Hudsonite to DB wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:18 PM:

Hudsonite to "To Hudsonite" wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:14 PM:

" Read my post closer. I don't believe I ever referred to "oncoming" traffic as though corn was in the road. You sound stupid trying to make me sound stupid. Maybe you intended that comment for one of the many other posters AND the Pantagraph that used that word to describe traffic approaching from the left or right. However, I agree to the need for southbound traffic to slow down approaching this intersection just in case someone pulls out, but north/south has the right of way and even slowing down does not stop someone from pulling out in front of you when it's difficult for them to see you approaching. "

To all: wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:07 PM:

" The point of this "comment section" is to comment on the stories, add extra info, express sorrow and/or thanks, or to offer an opinion on the story. It is NOT to see how sarcastic you can be and to see what kind of responses you can get. Brenstalka, I HOPE you were being sarcastic...but save your sarcasm for personal conversations. This is not the place. "

To Hudsonite wrote on Aug 17, 2007 1:42 PM:

" Corn does not keep one from seeing oncoming traffic. Corn is not in the ditches or on the roads. Yes, you'll have to slow down where maybe you didn't before, since the corn blocks the view as you are further from the intersection. It is up to you, however, not the corn, to slow down so that by the time you enter the intersection you know whether or not oncoming traffic is there. Slow down. "

sarcasm wrote on Aug 17, 2007 1:21 PM:

" is a higher level function...far beyond many of you here in B-N "

Been there wrote on Aug 17, 2007 1:02 PM:

" It was a accident, stop whining. When I was senior in high school a 18wheeler crossed the center line and hit our bus head on. Our driver somehow steered our bus down the ditch that it was headed and saved all 35 kids on that bus and gave his life doing so. He did what he lived to do drive kids safely and gave his life for us all. We all were at his funeral and still put flowers on his grave 20 years later. If she stopped she stopped and it was accident. Corn should be planted further back from the roads in every state it is too hard to see around. "

To Wait a Minute wrote on Aug 17, 2007 1:01 PM:

" Even if you stop, if you proceed into the intersection which has oncoming traffic, your yield was, in fact, a failure. You only are to enter the intersection if it is safe to do so. Since it wasn't safe, the driver was "in the wrong." "

i say wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:58 PM:

" let's blame the farmers for planting so close to the road. Outside of San Jose there is a tree farm of some sort planted so you can not see until you are in the intersection-this is coming north of San jose at the section of Towerline and Delavan Road. If a car can't see around the trees they pull out to see. I can see a school bus or a semi pulling out there and not seeing anything and WHAM! I hope the bus driver takes pics of the area of and gets a good attorney. And the fog was TERRIBLE this a.m. As for Brenstalka-I hope that was sarcasm because an educated person would not have made those comments. "

Chill People! wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:56 PM:

" Relax everyone. I think that "Brenstalka" was shedding a little humor on the situation in the form of sarcasm. Please, people, Don't believe EVERYTHING you read! By the way, Brenstalka: I thought it was great!! "

Hudsonite wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:53 PM:

" Myself and others I know that travel Linden in and out of town have had close calls at this intersection in the past with eastbound traffic pulling out in front of us no matter if we were heading north or south on Linden. Right now when crossing Linden eastbound on Northtown, visibility to the north is even worse than usual because of the height of the corn and the speed of the southbound traffic (55 mph reducing to 45). No matter the direction of travel, everyone needs to be aware of the danger at this intersection and be careful! This is a major school bus crossing as the buses come and go from their lot. Also, the owner of the property on the northwest corner of this intersection should not allow weeds or crops to grow to such a height as to impair visibility at this intersection. Even if it's not required by law, it would be the courteous thing to do. After all, it could save a life! (yes, I realize there are many country intersections where corn impairs visibility, but this is a high traffic area in comparison to most). "

DB wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:17 PM:

" It was just a matter of time before an accident occurred there. I always take the time to go on up to Kerrick Road or even Ziebarth Road, just for this very reason. The corn, along with that curve on Linden, is ridiculous. "

BeAs+ wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:12 PM:

" Brenstalka, I feel sorry for you. Not because you would raise an ignorant child, but because nobody on this site understands the beuty of sarcasm. "

Ironwood Resident wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:06 PM:

Hey wrote on Aug 17, 2007 12:03 PM:

" these 2 people are injured I say cut them some slack. Also this is a poor intersection on a good day! "

TJA wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:59 AM:

" Fog and tall corn? Back in the day they would trim the corn once it tassled so that you could see oncoming traffic. Do the road commisioners not do that any longer? Thank God, no one was hurt. IF the fog was that think, why was the construction worker not ticketed for failure to reduce speed? We were always taught to be extra careful when the weather gets as it did. Oh, well. as it was stated... they had to blame someone. "

To Everyone RE: Brenstalka wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:58 AM:

" Oh, you all know darned well that Brenstalka is just talking out of her rear. They just said that to get you all riled. It worked. "

To: Driver North wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:53 AM:

" A 4 way stop would be better. Traffic doesn't support a stop light. "

J O wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:44 AM:

" SOMEBODY has to get punished; it's the fascist way! Besides, city, county, and state governments have to find new and creative avenues (no pun intended) to generate revenue, since the federal government under King George cannot afford to fund anything at home. Afterall, sending $12 billion a month to fund the massacre of sand people half way around the globe is much more important. "

That's Odd wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:34 AM:

" I would take a smart child over a dumb child. "

Bad intersection wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:31 AM:

" This intersection always makes me nervous in July/August. When that field is beans it isn't as bad. I don't think a traffic signal is necessary but it would be nice if the county (or town) would by some land on that corner to improve sight lines for oncoming traffic. The speed limit is 55 (I think) for traffic heading southbound on Linden and the cars do come up on you quick (especially if they are going 65 MPH+). "

Neighbor wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:23 AM:

" That is a HORRIBLE intersection! Even when there isn't fog or tall corn, you cannot see around the corner to the left (north) when you are heading east on Northtown! I'm surprised there haven't been more accidents at that spot! Many times I've stopped at that stopsign, waited, and just prayed that when I turn right, someone doesn't come flying up behind me! Traffic coming in from the north (Hudson) usually hasn't slowed down enough to avoid someone pulling out in a little 4-cylinder car or a bus! I agree with "Driver North" -- we DO need stop light there. "

Daily Driver wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:21 AM:

" I drive this route to Hudson every day from Northtown. This is a very bad intersection just like Driver North said. I have had many near misses on a clear day. I am sure the fog and the corn was the factors for this accident. The corn on this corner is actually growing in the ditch and needs to be cut back. This is the fault of the farmer that ran hiis planter too close to the ditch on the corner. McLean Co. Highway Dept. Needs to remove the hazards at this corner. "

MRS. wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:21 AM:

" Are you all new, I think that was a stab at being funny. I am sure Brenstalka sends his/her child/ren to school if there are any children. "

frustrated wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:14 AM:

" I have documentation from three attempts to have the town and county address this corner. In the best of weather, it is a horribly dangerous location with a blind spot. Thankfully, no one was killed -- but could be. I hope that this is addressed before this happens. "

To: Wait a Minute wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:09 AM:

" this town has to place the blame on someone... They want the $75 for going to the scene. And to Brenstalka - that made my day... "

To Brenstalka wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:01 AM:

" I can tell your parents thought the same way. "

Wait a minute wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:51 AM:

" The bus driver stopped at the stop sign. She thought she was clear to go because she didn't see anyone......yet they issue a ticket for failure to yield????? She stopped, that is more than yielding! That doesn't make any sense..... Oh and too all of you, this could have easily have happened to you. Yet you critized the bus driver. What would have you done differently? Your children are not any safer with you than a bus driver! "

To Brenstalka: wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:46 AM:

" First of all, thank god there were no kids on the bus. If you don't educate your children because "they're just running the risk of getting hurt or killed on the way there", then I hope you don't EVER put your kids in a vehicle for the same fear. It doesn't matter if they are going to school, church, out to dinner, shopping, there is ALWAYS the risk of "getting hurt on the way there". Hell, even if they rode a horse to town, there is that risk. Get a life. "

shame wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:45 AM:

" ignorance is surely your best bet if you want your children to turn out just like you! "

To Brenstalka wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:44 AM:

" WOW... I am at a complete loss of words! Do you take your kids places? You run more of a risk driving your kids around then you do sending them to school. What are you teaching your kids... to avoid anything that could have the potential to cause harm. Might as well stay in your home and never leave or better yet you better not eat either because you could get food poisioning. I would just like to thank all the teachers, administrators, and yes BUS DRIVERS who take on such a huge responsibility. Unit 5 does a wonderful job at educating our children. I just hope that this wasn't my kids bus driver... she is the most wonderful person and best bus driver a parent could ask for. "

Blame the Fog and Corn wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:37 AM:

" I get a kick when we have to say "likely happened because of a combination of fog and tall corn". That's a cop out. The driver needed to be especially careful and wasn't careful enough. "

Driver North wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:15 AM:

" This intersection is bad news on a good day. No surprise there was finally an accident. Thank goodness no one was hurt. Think maybe we need a light there????? "

Brenstalka wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:06 AM:

" This is exactly why I refuse to educate my children. What's the point of sending them to school, if they're just running the risk of getting hurt or killed on the way there? I'll take an ignorant child over a maimed child. "

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