Pantagraph.com | Letters | Cling to hope that truth may prevail about Iraq

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

Who Is Simple? wrote on Aug 30, 2007 2:01 AM:

" Bush did not create terrorism? No, but he sure mis-defined what the War on Terror was about. Saddam invaded Kuwait? And this relates to 9/11 in what way? The roots of the terror problem run far deeper in history than 1991. We have botched our relations with the Islamic countries for over two centuries First we wanted to "Save their souls". Then we wanted to rob them blind. We can never exert enough force to change this. So we must re-think our policy approach and refine our efforts to combat specific instance of terror. Not simple. Not easy to do but also not empty posturing over a "quick and easy" war that has failed to be either and done NOTHING to combat terror nor to incapacitate the terrorists. More sloppy and incomplete thinking will not pull your butts out of the fire now. "

to to tommy boy wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:56 PM:

" Another deep thought from a big thinker. Don't argue about anything of substance. Just insult those who don't ride your hobby horse. "

Smapdi wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:29 PM:

" You never even have the possibility of such tumult if you don't execute a ham-fisted and ill-advised operation in the first place. Success is not determined by what we do now. The mess we have and peril we face now are the direct results of failures already logged. All we can do at this point is bail ourselves out and hopefully avoid a bigger catastrophe in the process. To stand atop 4 years of failure and disappointment, claim it as moral high-ground and then point to fixing our mistakes as "success" is preposterous. It's faulty, illogical thinking if not just plain disingenuous. The truth is we've got a big mess on our hands and we'll be lucky to register any kind of lasting or meaningful success for our troubles. We'll be lucky not to have actually HURT ourselves for all our troubles. "

To Tommy Boy/Mikey Shoe!! wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:23 PM:

" Man, you're working OT tonight! Take a pill, chill, and get a good night of sleep. You're losing it again. "

to: To Better Blue wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:43 PM:

" Fox is a tool of neoconservative ideology that does not report on events but promotes a viewpoint to try make it a reality. Prior to the Iraq invasion, they were the house band for the Pentagon. Fox doctors so called news. When government and news join hands, you have a union that will wipe out democracy. "News" cannot and should not be all about promoting the President. "

to better blue, from ThosSpence wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:31 PM:

" Given the zeal with which you express your nonsensical point, there is not much to say. But to insist that the entire media is "ultra liberal" speaks volumes about your own exceedingly muddled perception. Cling tightly to your conspiracy theory. It apparently provides solace. The truth is, however, that what the mainstream media really has in common is its appalling banality. Convinced that most Americans have the attention span of a gnat, and fuelled by the imperative of securing ever greater profit margins, corporate media is completely devoted to entertainment. Americans are the most poorly informed citizens in the western world. And to describe FOX as merely a "right of center" network is to miss the point by a country mile. The problem is that FOX, with its stable of far right propagandists and agitators, acts as an agent for a political party. No other network does anthing like that. "

To World Police wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:18 PM:

" Don't be simple. Bush didn't create terrorism or "start this mess". Sadam invaded Kuwait, defied weapons inspectors, claimed to have WMD, fired on our planes, tortured/raped his people, used chemical weapons against them, oppressed the Shiites and Kurds, etc., etc. Meanwhile, we had Al Qaeda attacking our embassies, the WTC (the first time), the USS Cole, Somalia, and finally 9/11. I know, you revisionists would like to pretend none of this happened, and Bush just decided to start a war, but that's a LIE. Your pals, the libs in congress voted for the Iraq war. In fact, they INSISTED on voting for it. The only lies I see any more are from the left about how this all came about. "

To Bruce, cont. wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:15 PM:

" By asserting that all of the world believed that Saddam had WMD, you also imply universal acceptance regardings all of the so-called intelligence that the U.S. possessed. In fact, each of the major forms of evidence that the U.S. used to build its case for "regime change" (the aluminum tubes; the allegations of mobile biological labs; and the supposed attempt by Iraq to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger) was hotly contested even within the U.S. government. Some CIA officials argued that seized aluminum tubes were for use as centrifuges to separate fissionable material. But the government's real experts, scientists in the Department of Energy, disagreed strenously and were ignored. No other European state, except for GB, accepted the allegations regarding mobile biological labs, based entirely on the testimony of the infamous "Curveball," an alcoholic and mentally unstable Iraqi defector held by the Germans. Even the Germans made it clear that they doubted the "witness" and had no corroborating evidence. The fact is that the German, French and Canadian intelligence services thought that the evidence presented by Powell to the UNSC was appalling. Your assertion that everyone believed the lies that Bush, Cheney and Condi told is simply false. "

to bruce, from ThosSpence wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:00 PM:

" The last line of defense now used by defenders of Bush is that all intelligence agencies everywhere in the world believed exactly as the Bush administration did. That intentionally misstates the issue and also throws out a good deal of rubbish. Yes, most intelligence agencies did indeed believe that Saddam possessed WMD since he failed to openly acknowledge that he had ended all major programs and disposed of whatever he held. But lots and lots and lots of countries have WMD. Why was only Iraq subject to being quarantined? The fact is, the vast majority of countries, given what little evidence they had, did not believe that Iraq posed anything like a grave threat. There is a wide canyon between suspecting that he had WMD and concluding, as Bush did, that he had every intention on using them and would likely cause horrendous danger. Virtually no other country believed the latter point which is why the U.S. was so isolated on the issue. "

Rat Face Hannity wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:57 PM:

" Liberal Media.....it is as good as the story about the boogie man in the closet. So who is the "liberal" counterpart of: sean hannity, bill o'relliy, Brit Hume. And, if you are claiming that they (this gaggle of goons) are out numbered, please be sure to include the other network media liberals that have torn objective journalism apart. Thank goodness for Fox news, they are the last subscribers to objective journalism. "

World Police wrote on Aug 29, 2007 6:09 PM:

" The "Truth" of the Iraq matter is that Bush and his lying crew flushed the Truth down the toilet to start this mess. Now, having made the mess, they want to warn us that to admit the mess and regroup would mean all sorts of new terrorist activity. What the people who want to suck up to Bush forget is that the terror has never stopped, halted, slowed or declined. Ask the people in Madrid. Ask the people in London. Ask the people in Baghdad. The Bush policies are a failure. More of the same will be more of a failure. We cannot, will not defeat terror by staying to play at Policeman in Iraq. The root of the problem is not there and it never was. "

To Better Blue wrote on Aug 29, 2007 3:08 PM:

" Sorry, but just because leftist tend to congregate in ivory towers doesn't make them smarter than anyone else. I'd happily put the collective IQ of conservatives up against liberals, especially if the radical bloggers from the Pantagraph are included in the liberal group! But thanks for admitting the truth. The media is liberal, in many cases ultraliberal. They do not report fairly and they editorialize in ever article and broadcast. To whine about Fox because there's a single network right of center is ridiculous. "

Out of Context - O'Reilly wrote on Aug 29, 2007 3:01 PM:

" Not a big fan, but my recollection is that O'Reilly pointed out the Taliban (the government of Afghanistan) were harboring Bin Laden and others responsble for 9/11. And if they didn't hand them over, we should bomb them. Six days after 9/11, I felt the same way, but then that's why Bill O'Reilly and I aren't President. Trying to take a comment like that out of context is a cheap shot. But then that's what we've come to expect from the left. "

common sense wrote on Aug 29, 2007 2:57 PM:

" Hopefully the media are liberal- liberals are the ones constantly questioning, which is what a reporter should do. Conservatives accept what they're told and call it "being patriotic". Conservatives cling to things as they are which works great for middle-class white folks (any coincidence that all 9 republican presidential candidates have the same demographics?) but not so great for everyone else. "

Bill O'Reilly wrote on Aug 29, 2007 2:25 PM:

" This great humanitarian for Fox News, Bill O’Reilly, said “bomb the Afghan infrastructure to rubble – the airport, the power plants, the water facilities, and the roads” O’Reilly said this on September 17, 2001, advocating on national television the murderous deaths of millions of Afghanis, who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. This is the moral fiber of the typical Republican conservative who listens to Fox and other bogus news sources. "

to :to stop the horror wrote on Aug 29, 2007 12:34 PM:

" You think we didn't inflict shock and awe. You think we didn't bomb their infrastructure and water treatment facilities. You think we didn't contaminate the region with depleted uranium and other poisons. And you say I am listening to the wrong people?! "

Better Blue than Red wrote on Aug 29, 2007 12:10 PM:

" Ooops, did I say Creationists. I meant the Intelligent Design folks. Sorry, my bad. "

Laughing Bones wrote on Aug 29, 2007 12:07 PM:

" One need only recall what Cheney said about going to war with Iraq back in 94. That of course was before he was the CEO for Halliburton and saw what moneys he and his buds could make if they created a war. But, then of course 9/11 changed everything! Is anyone else beside me tired of hearign that BS comment? I will say this if Clinton had stuck to his guns on all the crisis in Africa, maybe the Taliban wold never have gotten the nerve to decide that they could attack us, but then again if they photographer hadn't taken the picture of the body in Somalia (sp) being dragged through the streets, maybe then no us this would have happen. Clinton wouldn't have been under pressure to pull out, Rawanda wouldn't have lost 800k people in one month. The list could go on forever couldn't it. Basically war is not good it's bad....ummkay! "

Better Blue than Red wrote on Aug 29, 2007 12:05 PM:

" To: "Leftist Media is Everywhere!" What delusional world do you live in? Let me rephrase the essence of your post; The whole world is wrong and I am right. Have you ever asked yourself why it is that members of the media, a highly educated group and certainly well informed, tend to lean left in politics? Hmmm, I don't think this speaks well for your side. But don't worry, you still got the Creationists believing in Lil Bush and his war. "

The Rights Loves Iraqis wrote on Aug 29, 2007 11:55 AM:

" It's heartwarming to see Mr. Buffinton express such tremendous concern for Iraqi citizens, who so far in this war have died by the tens or hundreds of thousands and who have been displaced by the millions. At least the New York Times, whose reporting and editorial page were beating the drums for war, has largely come to realize that the war was based on lies (yes!) and has become a total catastrophe for Iraqis, the US, and the world. "

Fred Bear wrote on Aug 29, 2007 11:51 AM:

" Wait... so if we pull out of Iraq there will be civil war and thousands of civilian casualties? Sounds like nothing will change. "

Leftist Media is Everywhere! wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:47 AM:

" For all of you in denial about who the leftist media is, here's an abbreviated list. It would include NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, USA Today, Washington Post, NY Times, Time, Newsweek, and just about every other metro newspaper. The writers and broadcasters at these organizations admit that 90+% are liberal, and/or Democrat, but that doesn't influence their reporting. YEAH RIGHT! Additionally, virtually every J-School in the country is controlled by a liberal faculty, hence creating the next generation of biased reporters. Since even the members of the liberal media admit that yes, they're liberal, and yes, they control the media, what delusional world do some of you posting here live in? "

Nights in White Satin wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:04 AM:

" The media reports news, the reality of which often contradicts the world view of conservatives, their reality, so therefore the media must be liberal biased. The Moody Blues explained it more poetically; Cold hearted orb That rules the night. Removes the colours From our sight. Red is gray and Yellow white, But we decide Which is right. And Which is an Illusion "

to: to Bung wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:55 AM:

" Cambodia was a seperate issue from Viet Nam. Pol Pot was hardly affected by Viet Nam, except when we entered their country for a while. Overall, Cambodia had it's own legs. "

outand out wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:16 AM:

" Now let's get this straight. Gen. Petraeus was appointed by the president. He is supposed to give straight dope to the dope who appointed him. Something is wrong with this arrangement. "

Question wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:00 AM:

" It sounds like several bloggers are hoping for a negative report to come out in September. How could anyone wish for bad news about a war? I don't care what your feelings are about the war or the president or congress. I am ashamed to read many of these posts that wish us to lose the war or to have increased deaths just to help your partisan positions or administration hate? Personally, I want our troops to be safe and to come up with their heads held high victoriously. And I want honest reporting from Iraq, not partisan spin from either side. "

Common Sense wrote on Aug 29, 2007 5:51 AM:

" Celebrate the deaths of 1 million Iraqi's. Rejoice in the millions of refugees and the shattered families. Believe that this has engendered no hatred or ill-will towards us that would cause terrorism against us to grow or spread. Imagine that we can win in this situation. "

What liberal media? wrote on Aug 29, 2007 5:22 AM:

" The conservative demogogory has been allowed to create the specter of "the liberal media". What is the liberal media? It is a myth created by the far right. "

Bruce wrote on Aug 29, 2007 1:35 AM:

" To ES: Hannity and O'Reilly are not reporters, and don't pretend to be. They're opinion based entertainers only. Fox News is obviously less biased than CNN, MSNBC etc. You only see bias because they do not promote your leftist views. It's hard to see how the president can use justification of an unpopular war to win an election, since you say only 25% of the people support it. One more thing, please explain to me how using intel reports, (on WMD) agreed to by every intelligence agency on the planet, including Middle Eastern agencies is somehow lying. "

Yea Right wrote on Aug 29, 2007 1:20 AM:

" The NYT was so liberal and so anti-war that their ace reporter, Judith Miller, turned tricks for the neoconservatives in the administration who then cited her reporting as proof positive that we needed this ridiculous war. The press failed us prior to the Bush invasion, NYT included. Obviously, the truth did not prevail from the liberal or the right wing press. "

To: Stop the horror wrote on Aug 28, 2007 11:14 PM:

" YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE ALL OF THIS? YOU POSTED THE FOLLOWING: We have caused immense suffering in that poor country. We have inflicted "shock and awe", we have bombed their infrastructure including their water treatment facilities, we have contaminated their land with depleted uranium and other poisons and on and on. YOU NEED TO STOP LISTENING TO THE WRONG PEOPLE! "

The Irascible Fachna wrote on Aug 28, 2007 9:10 PM:

" At the last extremity, in the Nixon White House, there were three stalwarts left - Pat Buchanan, the (now former) Rev. John McLaughlin, and Rabbi Baruch Korff. When the last extremity creeps across the border S of Chenoa, there will be Phil. "

Left leaning media wrote on Aug 28, 2007 4:35 PM:

" Where is it? We have the drug addict Limbaugh, the "Shutup!!!" screaming O'Reilly, the rabid dog Hannity, the disgusting Coulter, but who are the big newscasters that are liberal? "

stop the horror wrote on Aug 28, 2007 4:02 PM:

" We have caused immense suffering in that poor country. We have inflicted "shock and awe", we have bombed their infrastructure including their water treatment facilities, we have contaminated their land with depleted uranium and other poisons and on and on. It is far past time for this to end. "

To Bung wrote on Aug 28, 2007 3:09 PM:

" I love this lie that ignorant people keep posting that we've caused the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis? What's that, almost 1,000 per day? If you have a legitimate point to make, make it. Quit making stuff up or quoting ridiculous statistics that have no basis in reality. And if you really believe there was no bloodbath after we abandoned VN, you should ask any of the hundreds of VN here in Bloomington, many who were boat people fleeing "reeducation camps". Or maybe look into what happened in Cambodia. "

ThosSpence wrote on Aug 28, 2007 2:59 PM:

" The New York Times is a "far left anti-war" newspaper? How about slightly left of center? Is the writer of this drivel aware of the role that the Times played in mobilizing public support for the war? Story after front page story by Judith Miller, based on leaks from Bush and Cheney, promulgated propaganda about the grave danger that Hussein's government posed. Then the same stories, based on Bush administration lies and distortion, were then cited by Cheney and co. as proof of their assertions. And why do prowar zealots insist on pretending that there can be a military solution to this conflict? Even Bush understands that the real crisis is political. The whole point of the surge was to give al-Maliki's government breathingspace to forge reconciliation. And that simply isn't happening. Al-Maliki has no interest in it and either do others. Even Petraus's strategy of forging alliances with Sunnis in Anbar province, which strengthens regional powers, is sharply at odds fostering conditions for al-Malikis government to bring the country together. I might listen to speculation about the effects of U.S. withdrawal when the war lovers finally face the truth about how we got into this debacle. "

Dear Phil wrote on Aug 28, 2007 11:26 AM:

" You forgot to mention that O'Hanlon and Pollack were big war supporters going in, so they want to perpetuate the stupidity of the Iraqi invasion rather than adjust to reality. Nothing we say isw going to change the quagmire. We will have to leave. We put a hole in the dam, and can't keep our finger there forever. When we leave, there will be chaos to fill the vacuum we created, and then stability. The belief that there is a military solution and that the good people of Iraq will suddenly unite and spring up in friendship with the occupier is childlike. Also, real expensive. "

to: Phil wrote on Aug 28, 2007 11:15 AM:

" Much ogf Obama's viewpoint on Iraqi foreign policy comes from Colin Powell. The same Powell who predicted our current quagmire and tried to warn Little Bush, but foolishly went along with him as a perceived soldierly duty. "

A Salute to the 25%ers wrote on Aug 28, 2007 11:05 AM:

" You gotta say, these folks are real troopers. Once they take buy into a concept, they are committed to the bitter end. All the facts in the world won't sway these warriors. They fly into the face of the storm of reality undaunted. So what if everything the Bush, Cheney, Rumsy and Condi uttered about Iraq was either a lie or just plain wrong? These folks are now invested - there can be no turning back. Same thing holds for the concept of "Family Values". Sure, a lot of thoughtful people threw a penalty flag on that one, exposing it as a public relations scam on behalf of good old fashioned hate and intolerance. But did that deter the 25%ers? No! Then, one by one, the standard bearers of the concept were revealed in their hypocricy: Mark Foley, Ted Haggard and now Larry Craig. Yet the 25%ers, like lemmings, continue to follow them off the cliff of irrelevance. These folks deserve a tribute in their honor. 25%ers, I salute you! "

Good letter wrote on Aug 28, 2007 10:02 AM:

" Phil, don't let the usual leftists like ES, and others bother you. These guys would be unhappy if you hung them with a new rope. It is funny, that people who actually have visited Iraq recently admit things are getting better. Yet you see those who have never stepped foot there telling how things are horrible. By the way, Mr. Warner only stated that a small number of troops should be withdrawn, like 5,000. Far cry from him saying we should get out. As for the others, like always, keep blasting Fox News and getting away from the original topic. Typical left leaning ways, if you can't win a debate start attacking something else. "

T wrote on Aug 28, 2007 9:59 AM:

" I think I'm getting sick from your letter Phil. Just another Bush lover right? "

Bung wrote on Aug 28, 2007 9:59 AM:

" This is the same nonsense they said about Vietnam and guess what, their were no blood baths. Mentally challenges people always use what if statements to suppose the worst. This writer believes a million more people will die if we suddenly leave, which has no examples in history. However, we HAVE CAUSED the deaths of over a million people from our unnecessary and unwise preemptive attack on Iraq. So it must be obvious to anyone who can think that the sooner we leave, the better it will be for the Iaqi people. It's still their country, right??? "

Tripper wrote on Aug 28, 2007 9:39 AM:

" Why is it that party affiliation is the main litmus test for country loyalty? This letter writer ilustrates what is wrong in this country. It no longer is about right or wrong...it is about what is your party affiliation. Get over yourself letter writer and just state your beliefs without being so devisive. "

BN Republican wrote on Aug 28, 2007 8:51 AM:

" Great letter, Philip. I hope that the September report is positive and that we can silence the liberal Democrats who oppose our mission of making the Middle East safe for Israel and American capitalism. Viva the wealthy! "

In the Know wrote on Aug 28, 2007 8:35 AM:

" Senator John Warner, a highly respected REPUBLICAN from Virginia, just told the American people and President Bush that troops need to start coming home by Christmas. Guess he's a "liberal Democrat" that is now "feeding us with large doses of often untruthful and biased mishmash," right? The fact of the matter is that even General Patreus has stated that a political solution is needed in Iraq, not a military solution. "

Clinging to hope... wrote on Aug 28, 2007 8:12 AM:

" ...is the last option for someone who paid $1000 for a stock that's now worth $20. "

comment wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:54 AM:

" Last night on tv there were some shows on Osama et al. I believe whereever we are in a conflict his factor will be there. That is why he is still relevant. If not somewhere else we or Israel perhaps will be the target. I wonder how long it will take the Kerry's and Obama's of the world to understand this concept. Probably after a couple events have happened. But then no matter where it is or how it happens I am sure they will blame Republicans. At least they are good at something and that happens to be it. "

Greed wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:53 AM:

" Well Phil, you didn't do your research on this one. These guys, O’Hanlon and Pollack, both were cheerleaders for the Iraq invasion from inception, despite being in The Brookings Institute. The article you cite was actually dishonest in that it tries to lend credibility to Bush’s unnecessary invasion of Iraq. It is impossible to get accurate assessments of Iraq, so long as reporters are chauffeured around by our military, and are supporters of the occupation. There is much talk of Democrats that voted for the war. At the time The War Authorization Vote took place, it was touted by Bush as giving him the tools to get the UN inspectors back into Iraq, which it did. Nobody that voted for it assumed Bush would invade. In fact it was him that said prior to getting the vote, that invasion would be the last resort. After he got the authorization vote, Bush kicked out the UN inspectors, who were doing their job, and invaded. It is too bad that party affiliation blurs what is right, or wrong in our country. We continue to illegally occupy Iraq. The media is a propaganda partner of The Bushies. "

Betting Man wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:50 AM:

" So Phil, you willing to put any money on this? "

Area Resident wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:41 AM:

" This letter is ridiculous! "

Tony S. wrote on Aug 28, 2007 6:51 AM:

" You are right Phil that "several recent events may hold out hope". Those would be the resignations of Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales. As for the rest of your letter you must have forgotten one thing. That would be that this whole damn war was started on the lies. The lies of GW and his cronies. It's too bad the truth didn't prevail in August 2003. We might have stayed out of this mistake. "

ES wrote on Aug 28, 2007 6:40 AM:

" I agree, too much bias in the news like Fox News with horrid "reporters" like Britt Hume, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly. I would also agree that I want the truth to come out about this war like how it was set up to ensure an election for the American King George the Second, how there were no WMD's, why they set Football player Tillman death's evidence aside, the horros of Gitmo and other "detainee sites" and how we have no chance to win. I agree Phillip, let the truth prevail. "

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