Pantagraph.com | Letters | Continuing war in Iraq helps al-Qaida recruit

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

To Yada, from ThosSpence wrote on Sep 3, 2007 10:10 PM:

" I have just read your response to my post of 8.31. I noticed that you failed to respond to any of my points. Instead you indulge in utterly irrelevant comparisons (the rebellious colonists of 1776 is like Iraq in 2007) and hallucinigenic exultations regarding your own demented futurology (Heil Bush and all good AmeriKans who have preserved their precious bodily fluids). I have never agreed with one thing that your have ever written. But often, your posts are intelligent and even, in a few cases, show evidence of some knowledge of current affairs. Your last post, however, strikes me as someone who is literally detached from reality. You need a long vacation. "

To ytsejam wrote on Aug 30, 2007 10:21 PM:

" You know deep down we are winning this terroristic warfare and much quicker than any other US war in history. The problem of you expressing that fact is the self destruction of the democratic party during the next election. However, the majority of people know the truth, regardless what the liberals on CNN say otherwise. But I guess time will tell and it will prove to you that the garbage you folks preach is just that - GARBAGE. "

Saying it's so, doesn't make it so wrote on Aug 30, 2007 9:41 PM:

" Who in the world thinks"U.S. law doesn't supercede international treaties and conventions"? If Iran and Zimbabwe have a treaty, it supercedes U.S. law? If California makes an economic convention with China itsupercedes U.S. law? That's news to everyone. No wonder everyone pays so much attention to U.N. resolutions, we might get in trouble if we don't. What a laugh. "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 9:35 PM:

" To "Vic Connor", let's say, for the sake of your goofy argument that the U.S. did sell gas to Iraq. And, furthermore, for the same goofy sake of argument, that Iraq used the gas on the Iranian mullahs and their followers in that little border skirmish that lasted 10 years. Didn't America make up for the gas by selling the Iranians TOW missles to use against the Iraqis? You can't beat that! Two of the biggest bullies in the region stomping each other bug-eyed!! "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 9:25 PM:

" "to yada", America's war for independence lasted from 1775 to 1783. Then it required until 1789 before our government was in place and half-way functioning. In spite of all that, within a few years, America was back at war because the issue had not been finally resolved. Considering America's own experience, Iraq is doing better than we ever thought of doing, and is improving all the time. Bad news for you and and the other Godless leftists. We (loyal Americans) have nearly succeeded in establishing a democratic allie in the mid-East that will add peace and stability to that region of the world for many generations to follow. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, but success is eminent. And, an ordinary, honest, God-fearing man, who can't walk and chew gum in your twisted, perverted minds has changed the course of the world forever and that's what really chaps your a.... This is a glorious moment.....Lincoln, Reagan and Bush!!! "

ytsejam wrote on Aug 30, 2007 8:48 PM:

" To Vic wrote: 'Thank God we have a republican president to handle this situation.' So the war's going great the way Bush is handling it, eh? I didn't notice. Damn liberal Pantagraph! "

To Vic . . . wrote on Aug 30, 2007 7:08 PM:

" Not one president claimed to be Nostradamus. So what is point in selling arms to other nations? Do you have a better plan to give arms to our allies only to find out later that some have turned their backs on us? This war has been going on for how long now and not one democrat can give a solution to the terrorist dilemma. Everyone of these crybabies are doing what they do best - whine and whimper. Thank God we have a republican president to handle this situation. I can't even imagine what a democratic president would do, God forbid. "

To Area Resident . . wrote on Aug 30, 2007 6:31 PM:

" You stated, "They were not there before the war, now they are, plain and simple." How would you know this? Did you live there? Try to attend a meeting with them only to find out they didn't exist? You dummycrats need to do some serious research before throwing crazy statements such as this. They were not there . . . YEAH, RIGHT. "

Did You Know . . . wrote on Aug 30, 2007 6:28 PM:

" That the SAME dummycrat blog writers rehash the issue on pulling out of Iraq. And there is not too many of you. Therefore statistically speaking, central Illinois residents supports this war and the freedom of not having to look behind us to see if we are going to be under attack. Go back to your Michael Moore fan club and try to find another reason we should end the war. This letter by far is the most ridiculous I have read. More terrorists are being recruited . . . This statement alone supports the fact why the war should continue. "

1234 wrote on Aug 30, 2007 5:41 PM:

" I'm sorry George Bush did not solve all of the world's problems in the few months of unity this country shared in the afterglow of the September 11th, 2001 attacks. We all said that we would "never forget." Alas, most have, including Bob Broad, the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, loony left, and all Democrats except Joe Lieberman and at times Joe Biden. Its a damn shame. If al-Qaida is regrouping, that means the US Military should stay, surge, and go after those @ssholes, not retreat. The Democrats are trying their best to hurry up and lose the war on terror. I say "No Way," no matter how illogical the Democrats become. I, for one, will never forget. The Democrats, in their hatred for Bush, have set themselves up to gain when the US has a setback and to suffer when the US has success. Then, they have the nerve to call themselves patriotic, instead of treasonous. "

Me Again wrote on Aug 30, 2007 4:37 PM:

" Just when I thought I might pull Frank out of his FOX trance, I see that Vic has gone into some sort of weird Trance. What's going on here??? "

To: Frank J wrote on Aug 30, 2007 4:33 PM:

" Frank, snap out of it! You're in the FOX trance. Leave the zombie world and rejoin us. Hey, you haven't been hanging out over at YadaYada's place, have you? "

Vic Connor wrote on Aug 30, 2007 4:09 PM:

" 9/11 was an inside job. The argument posed as fighting them here or there is silly. They, meaning muslims can't get here in force, so we must understand that we are killing "them" there without ever being attacked by them. Believe it or not, but high-rise steel-frame buildings can't fall from fire. "

Frank J wrote on Aug 30, 2007 3:54 PM:

" You have the choice to fight them there or here and I vote for there. They have already been here 9/11. These people are fanatics and if you don't believe this then I guess you feel it is alright to strap explosives on children and send them off to do damage. Simply leaving allows them to move aggressively throughout the Middle East and the World will cause all nations to be afraid. Their goal is world domination not simply to get the US out of the Middle East. Ask them. "

to yada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 2:27 PM:

" After four years of occupation the government of Iraq still lacks anything that resembles a competent military and depends for its existence on 160,000 U.S. military forces. To refer to that dysfunctional entity, which presently lacks half of its cabinet and has no control whatsoever over most of the country as "sovereign," is to make a mockery of a good english word. It is likewise idiotic to pretend that the invasion of Iraq was anything but a U.S.-British operation, notwithstanding the the brave dozens of Polish medics, Albanian MPs and Salvadoran mechanics. Your boastful comment about the pleasure you took in mass slaughter is revealing. Those who revel in carnage and suffering are usually more circumspect. "

Vic Connor wrote on Aug 30, 2007 1:52 PM:

" to Yada The United States sold Iraq the gas, so why do you care? If our government was so good, then why would they sell poisonous gas to a potential enemy? We don't seem to be that good, do we. "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 1:34 PM:

" Uhhhh, "To where to begin, from ThosSpence", it is the sovereign government of Iraq that tried Saddam and his henchmen for killing Iraqi citizens. Then the sovereign government of Iraq found them guilty and executed them. Formerly, in 2003, the U.S. was merely one of about 40 nations, acting under a United Nations resolution, that invaded Iraq for continually violating a conditional cease-fire agreement from the Iraq-Kuwait War in 1990. As far as the Iran-Iraq border war from the the 1980s, I was tickled Saddam and the mullahs of Iran were gassing and shredding each other; I trust my government back then was equally pleased as I. Hopefully, my government even encouraged that war at every opportunity. "

Ponder This ... wrote on Aug 30, 2007 12:43 PM:

" Of course we have enemies, I don't think anybody in their right mind disputes that. The dispute revolves around the issues of: Why do we have them?, How do we best deal with each of them? and How do we avoid creating new ones? Yes, we have enemies, but you exagerate their potential threat to us to the point of paranoia. 911 exposed a weakness in our security and we corrected that. We still have other weaknesses that have frankly been ignored by this president. The war in Iraq is not solving any of our problems and is only creating new ones. By the way, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. "

Dead Eye Dick wrote on Aug 30, 2007 12:39 PM:

" "YadaYada": No, "Fatso agreed with YOU when YOU wrote "...I am paranoid. ..." Geez, I mean, what's one to 'deduce' from that statement? And why give "Fatso" hell for agreeing with you? He/She's about the only one left in B/N who does. "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 12:11 PM:

" "Alphonse", our enemy, both foreign and domestic, suggests we do exactly what you suggest we do. "

Vic Connor wrote on Aug 30, 2007 12:04 PM:

" It is clear that the war in Iraq was a mistake. For those of you who do not believe this, then ask yourselves when will we stop preemptively attacking countries. You may not want to remember that when Bush first ran for president he said that nation building would be arrogant. Unfortunately, he has changed his mind on this statement and now we can attack any country at will. We are now threatening Iran. Why? They have not hurt us. They have not even stated they will attack us. So WHY does the Bush Administration want to attack them. We have over 100 nuclear reactors and if you believe in the nonsense of nuclear energy, then you cannot fault Iran for wanting to have a nuclear reactor to produce electricity. WHY do we want to attack Iran? "

To where to begin, from ThosSpence wrote on Aug 30, 2007 11:55 AM:

" Where to begin indeed. Your ignorance is vast. U.S. law doesn't supercede international treaties and conventions. The latter have the same status in U.S. law. They are part of the law of the land. What do you mean Sadddam doesn't get a free pass for genocide etc? He used chemical weapons on a daily basis against Iranians for long stretches of the war. Americans could have cared less. Likewise with the savage repression that he visited on Kurds and others. Go back and read the press from that time. The U.S. government of the day did absolutely nothing. To invoke those crimes from more than a decade ago to justify an invasion, especially when the Americans all but gave their tacit approval when those crimes were committed, now that's illogical. One fact is indisputable: when Saddam really was a threat to his neighbors and the wider stability of the Middle East and carried out significant crimes against humanity, the U.S. was his ally. It was only when Saddam was gravely weakened and had ceased being a threat to anyone but his own people that the U.S. overthrew him. "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 11:50 AM:

" Hey "Ponder This", since you used the phrase "MORE enemies" then, by default you agree that America has existing enemies in the mid-East to fret about and you admit we are likely to get even "MORE". "Fatso" stated that paranoids have enemies, "sometimes, it's themselves", he says, so by deduction "sometimes, it's not themselves". I apprediate "Fatso" and "Ponder This" for assisting me in making my point, but it wasn't really necessary, except to convince their irrational constituents. "

Alphonse wrote on Aug 30, 2007 11:29 AM:

" Right on, Bob. We need to move on and realize the painfully obvious truth: this war was a mistake, and we need to do something about it NOW. As long as people continue to cower from this truth with fear-mongering rhetoric (they'll come attack us here if we don't stay over there,) conspiracy theories (the liberal media is making this glorious and effective war look bad by only reporting on the bad stuff, they're somehow invested in failure) or deflecting reality by pointing blame all over the place (the Democrats voted for it, too) we're never going to get anywhere. The Democrats failed us on this one, too, obviously, but instead of sitting around squabbling and pointing blame, let's all accept the obvious and move on to a solution. Do we leave? Do we stay? Do we start a slow withdrawal and put pressure on Iraqi police? Let's turn this discourse into a solution-based one. "

Ponder This ... wrote on Aug 30, 2007 10:25 AM:

" If you agree with our justification for the invasion of Iraq - WMD & Al-Qaeda connections posing a threat to US national security - then how can you fault Iran for it's involvement? It has a history of conflict with Iraq and was a victim of the Suni use of WMD. Al-Qaeda and other radical Suni are direct enemies of Iran and pose a tremendous threat to Iran's national security. Finally, instead of being thousands of miles and two oceans from Iraq, Iran shares a long and porous border with Iraq. So honestly, who has legitimate national security concerns when it comes to Iraq? I'm afraid we come off as something of a pompous bully in this region of the world and we simply create more enemies for ourselves and YadaYada to fret about. "

Illegal war wrote on Aug 30, 2007 10:14 AM:

" I would just to like mention that the term "illegal war" is so useless it defies exploration. When you are judging a war based on it 'legality' you probably aren't in a war. "

Vic Connor wrote on Aug 30, 2007 10:10 AM:

" to Where to Begin. Israel has violated over 70 UN resolutions and Iraq under Saddam had violated only 17. Shouldn't we be attacking Israel, I mean if we are considering UN resolutions? "

Where to Begin? wrote on Aug 30, 2007 9:27 AM:

" Many of you, especially Tspence, have a very selective memory! Among other UN Resolutions Sadam violated were 660, 661, 678, 688, 707, 715, 986, 1284, 1382, and then 1441, which warned him if severe consequences if he continued to defy the UN. We know now what those consequences were! And it is illogical to argue that because we backed Sadam against the Iranian mullahs in the wake of the hostage crisis, he gets a free pass on any and all genocide and atrocities. Further, the UN Charter does NOT supercede US law, and the US Congress authorized the use of force in Iraq. So I'm still waiting for evidence of this "illegal" war. "

Paladin wrote on Aug 30, 2007 9:01 AM:

" ...the "Middle East" wasn't able to cause the forcible overthrow of the Western Europeans, when the Islamic world was at its cultural height and the West was still feudal and largely barbaric. They couldn't do it then, they certainly can't do it now. Can they blow up some airplanes and dance clubs? Sure. Can they overthrow the US Federal Government? Not even on their birthday. Why aren't we "fighting them in our streets"? Because they can't afford the logistics. "Sleeper cells" are what they can afford. We've lost enough sleep worrying about the Russkies and suitcase nukes that never came. Maybe they will, one day, but that STILL won't make a "War on Terror" any more "win-able" than a "War on Dirt". More saleable, yes. More win-able, no... "

Fatso wrote on Aug 30, 2007 7:57 AM:

" I have to agree with "YadaYada" on this one. Even paranoids have real enemies. Even if, sometimes, it's themselves. "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 30, 2007 6:32 AM:

" Ohhhh, "Just ask Lil Bush", I see now! Thank you for making it so clear to me. Thank you for pointing-out I am just being paranoid, that's all and there is no threat to America by radical Islam. So, you say I imagined the bogeyman under my bed? I must have imagined the two tallest buildings in Manhattan being knocked down by imaginary Islamic terrorists. You know, I also imagined more than 3,000 citizens inside those two buildings dying in a matter of minutes? I imagined a nation gripped by terror, afraid to get on an airplane for business or pleasure, afraid to leave their homes. I imagined people afraid to open their own mail because it might contain some deadly biological or chemical or radiological powder. I imagined people dancing in the streets of Islamic countries when they heard the news America had been attacked. I imagined fatwas against America by Islamic clerics all around the world and I imagined Islamic terrorist groups swear jihad on America. Well, just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me. "

What sources? wrote on Aug 30, 2007 6:20 AM:

" Bob you state with absolute authority that there was no Al-queda in Iraq before Bush invadeded. What intel are you using? CNN. msnbc fox? "

To: Once again wrote on Aug 30, 2007 2:05 AM:

" Consider yourself educated. As long as we block UN action in the Security Council, we will insure that the UN has no voice in this war. "

to to once again, from ThosSpence wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:36 PM:

" What makes it an illegal war? It is an obvious violation of the UN Charter, which prohibits unprovoked aggression against another country. That document, when signed by participating members, has the status of law. You state that Saddam fired on U.S. planes? The fact is that the American assertion of the right to restrict Iraqi airspace was not specifically provided for in any internationally recognized agreement. Moreover, the U.S. regularly engaged in flights that were provocative in nature, intended to draw a response. You further state that Saddam violated "dozens" of UN resolutions. Name them. Israel have violated more UN resolutions than any country in the history of the institution. When does the U.S. start bombing Tel Aviv? Finally, you note that Saddam committed horrendous atrocities against his own citizens. The problem, I'm afraid, is that most of that was done when the U.S. was his defacto ally. Go back and read the press when Saddam carried out his genocidal campaigns against Kurds in 1987. Guess what? The response of the Reagan administration was to deny that it took place. "

to Um wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:52 PM:

" al- Queda would not last six months in Iraq if we left. This fight is about Shia and Sunni and Kurds and the vacuum created by removing Saddam. The longer we stay, however, and the more chaos we create, the b igger problem al-Qaida becomes in Iraq and throughout the Moslem world. I sometimes wonder if this whole invasion was not just planned chaos, and nobody but Bush could be so stupid as not to see the consequences of the action. "

ThosSpence wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:45 PM:

" Reading "Wat Tyler's" prose is like being lost in a sandstorm. One squeezes one's eyes tightly and hopes that it will be over soon. His response to Broad's well written and clearly reasoned letter is typical of the overwrought and increasingly desperate responses of the real deadenders. Broad is absolutely correct and to accuse him of Nazi-like tactics is both despicable and idiotic. Al Queada in Iraq did not exist before Bush's criminal occupation. To argue otherwise is to court lunacy. And no one who knows anything about this debacle doubts that the horrendously incompetent nature of the occupation has alienated most Iraqis and fuelled support for the insurgency. As is well known, for at least a year polling data has indicated that large majority of Iraqis support attacks on U.S. soldiers. Just who is it that the GIs and Marines are protecting? Kudos to Broad for his fine letter. "

To Once Again wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:24 PM:

" Please educate me. What makes this an illegal war? Was it unprovoked? Sadam was firing on our planes, defying dozens of UN resolutions, committing atrocities against his own citizens. He used WMD against the Kurds, tortured, raped, and murdered hundreds of thousands. Then, the US Congress voted for the war. So again, what makes this an illegal war? Has Congress cut off funds? has even the UN demanded the US withdraw? Give me a break. "

Um wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:32 PM:

" I guess Saddam was a model we should have followed as a leader. You guys act like we toppled Bill Clinton or something. Let's not forget the climate in 2003 when we were invading. It has only been 4 years and everyone has forgotten what most intelligence sources were saying, not just GWB. It has not turned out as planned, but pulling out now, would leave a serious problem. Think about how Al-Qaida could recruit if we left Iraq in shambles. "

Yay! wrote on Aug 29, 2007 6:13 PM:

" A letter that is not recycled Bush doo-doo. "

Once Again, Children wrote on Aug 29, 2007 5:18 PM:

" Lizzy, like most 25%ers, just can't seem to get it. The Afgan war is an entirely different one than the war in Iraq. It is a UN operation, totally justified, against a government (the Taliban) that harbored the terrorists (Al-Qaeda) that were responsible for 911. The war in Iraq is an illegal, unprovoked invasion and occupation of a nation that did nothing to us and posed no threat to us. There were no WMD and no Al-Qaeda elements. This is not opinion, it is fact, according to our own CIA. Let me just ask one question; if we wanted to surrender in Iraq (btw, nobody ever suggested this?), just who would we surrender to? Likewise, how will we know if we have won in Iraq - who would surrender to us? See the problem? "

Lizzy Lib wrote on Aug 29, 2007 3:23 PM:

" If we'd only surrender in Iraq and Afghanistan, everyone would like us again, and the terrorist would leave us alone. "

The Irascible Fachna wrote on Aug 29, 2007 2:33 PM:

" If you had put Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and the Decider in a locked room, each with a single-shot pistol, you would open that room to find Saddam and Osama each dead - with each other's bullets in each other's brains - and the Decider having dropped his pistol and shot himself in the foot. "

Finally wrote on Aug 29, 2007 2:06 PM:

" Finally, I agree with Wat Tyler that “al-Qaida, the group that planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks,” is pure malarkey. What a bunch of bull. It is clear now from science that whoever flew the planes had nothing to do with the destruction of the buildings. They fell from demolitions. Only our corrupt federal government would wait 14 months to create a commission to look into this and it wasn’t caused by a bunch unhappy middle-Easterners. "

Just ask Lil Bush wrote on Aug 29, 2007 1:54 PM:

" So, YadaYada, you do know that the bogeyman lives under your bed, don't you? "

YadaYada wrote on Aug 29, 2007 11:01 AM:

" "Wat Tylor" and "nice try" have correctly highlighted the errors of your way, Bob Broad. But you and a number of others, here, apparently don't understand Al-Qaeda's and other muslim extremist's role. There is this minute a world war in progress perpetuated by fundemental Islam on infidels (persons who do not practice Islam, but especially atheists and the like). Al-Qaeda and others are mujahideen, or warriers who fight for fellow muslims. Their radicalism has no borders. They travel to anywhere in the world from everywhere, willing to fight and hoping to die to curry favor with Allah. America chose to fight these Islamo-Fascists in the mid-East rather than New York. But, understand this, you will be forced to fight them in one place or another. If you don't, you must submit to their authority and become one of them. You have no other choice. Their time is now. "

The Lobotomy Solution wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:39 AM:

" When we leave Iraq there will indeed be a period of chaos and mass killings. That will be the case if we leave now and that will be the case if we leave five years from now, ten years, ... The only way that will not be the case is if we perform lobotomies on all Iraqis prior to our departure. "

Wat Tyler wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:24 AM:

" Malarky, pure and simple. This is one of the Democrats talking points, but it is not based on fact. Once again we see a democrat using the rhetoric device of taking a quote out ofcontxt from the opponent and using those words as the basis of his argument. The July National Intelligence Estimate did not confirm that our activities gave al-Quaida their dearest wishes or helped their recruitment, fund raising or their ability to make war. This is the big lie technique that nazi Germany made popular, improved on our leftist politicians and their supporters. (The docment did say that Sunni elements of AQI were recruiting and expanding their resources, stating that this was because of American occupation is a gross overstatment and fairly reliable indicator of the speakers political affiliation. "

In the Know wrote on Aug 29, 2007 7:56 AM:

" Bob, thank you for your balanced and accurate letter! "

nice try wrote on Aug 29, 2007 7:27 AM:

" at this point, it's not appoint "staying the course"...whether you agree w/ Pres. Bush or not, it should be about the fact that if we leave iraq the way it is, we will leave ourselves in a worse position than before Iraq. Almost all of your liberal congressmen realize that and that's why they are not defunding or demanding immediate pullout. unfortunately, some want to play politics w/ our military and pretend that withdrawing now is better for the country, when it clearly is not, so they make a scene knowing that the less informed will fall for the "soundbytes". "

Area Resident wrote on Aug 29, 2007 7:26 AM:

" I agree with the statements in this letter! I am baffled when I hear about al-Qaida strongholds in Iraq. They were not there before the war, now they are, plain and simple. We have created the condition for which we went to war to begin with, which did not exist at that time. As I said,,, baffled! "

True wrote on Aug 29, 2007 1:14 AM:

" Not even a question about that. The invasion of Iraq was a gift to al Queda. Stupidest high level move in U.S. history, and one that will cost us for a generation, if not forever. Little Bush will be reviled in by our kids and grandkids who will wonder how a moron like Bush was ever put in charge of this great country. "

True wrote on Aug 29, 2007 1:09 AM:

" Not even a question about that. The invasion of Iraq "

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