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ISU student government to fight dress code
By Scott Miller
scottmiller@pantagraph.com
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NORMAL -- Mandatory business attire jeopardizes an array of student rights at Illinois State University, from the right to organize to the right to access university services, according to the Student Government Association.

Student leaders are fighting a dress code enforced this week by the marketing department in the College of Business, claiming the policy violates the association's constitution, specifically the students' bill of rights.

According to Section 1, Letter J of that document, students have "the right to be free from any mandatory dress code."

Tim Longfellow, chair of the marketing department, said both the Student Affairs office and the university's general counsel gave the department the OK to require students attending marketing classes to wear business-casual attire.

"We felt like it was definitely important to make sure we weren't running afoul of the law," he said.

Representatives from the Student Affairs office did not return calls from the Pantagraph, and general counsel referred all questions to university spokesman Jay Groves.

"I think what's going on right now is just a good healthy discussion," he said. "I commend (the SGA) for everything they're doing."

Groves noted that no other university documents prohibit dress codes, only the student bill of rights. He didn't know if the student bill of rights carries any weight in the discussion of university policies like the marketing department's dress code.

The policy isn't entirely new. Certain marketing courses have required business-casual attire since 2003, and nursing and speech pathology students are often required to wear certain attire because they work with clients, Groves said.

But Student Body President Dave Horstein said superseding the SGA constitution compromises the entire student bill of rights.

That document, which students approved via referendum most recently in 2006, covers a number of issues:

• "The right in the classroom to full freedom of expression ...

• "The right to organize registered student affiliations."

• "The right to affiliate with any registered student organization without adversely affecting the student's standing ..."

• "The right to receive financial aid from public funds ..."

• The full document is available at www.sga.ilstu.edu.

"We're students. We care that we chose to attend a public university that gives us the ability to establish a bill of rights," Horstein said. "I really want to preserve the integrity of that document. It represents all 20,000 students."

He said the marketing department should have conferred not only with the SGA constitution, but the Academic Senate as well. Doing so would preserve the "shared governance" that includes ISU students, faculty and other interested parties in decision-making processes involving university policies, he said.

"I'd like (the dress code) to be changed from a mandate to a recommendation," said Horstein, a member of the Academic Senate.

Under the current policy, students found in violation can be asked to leave the classroom and lose credit for that day's work. Repeat offenders could effectively fail the class.

Horstein and university administrators are in ongoing meetings on the issue.

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Reader comments on this story - 313 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

Tasha wrote on Jan 21, 2008 5:19 PM:

" i think that dress codes and uniforms and holding ack the students individuality, creativity, and holding back who they are "

naked wrote on Sep 18, 2007 9:08 AM:

" people should not hav to wear clothes! "

Steve wrote on Sep 18, 2007 8:20 AM:

" Get over it! Be a politician if you want to change the system! "

Again the Mad Ranter wrote on Sep 18, 2007 7:38 AM:

" What you are both failing to understand is, 99% of the professional business\marketing workplace have either business or business casual dress code. You are talking a class to become one of these professionals. This is not a conspiracy to make you a "clones" or some kind of war machine. Once you get a little older and actually work in this environment, you are going to understand how silly you are being and look back at your comments and be glad you can post anonymously. There is no room to "think outside of the box" here. If you were going to try and make an argument against this, you should try bringing up the cost of actually dressing business casual. Clothes, Dry cleaning, Time.... :) "

To: JD wrote on Sep 18, 2007 5:40 AM:

" It seems that you are confusing the points people are making. In my career, I have always valued diverse opinions and liked a spirited discussion. There is no doubt that change is necessary, but the real issue is, what change is the right change? But once a decision is made, I expect everyone to get on board and work hard together. Organizations (and especially marketing) should always strive for innovative thinking, but will never go so far as wanting rebels, because that strikes at the true essence of any entity: the ability to work together to accomplish a common goal. Dress itself isn't important if you are not in a customer-facing job. But, if dress mirrors sloppy habits, selfish behavior, and an inability to work with a team, it is a fatal flaw. I see ISU as wanting to help students adjust their attitudes before they go out into a world that is no longer based just on individual performance (study and grades) but instead values teamwork. Unless you are going to be self-employed in a job that requires little interaction, you will come to realize this soon enough, JD. Good luck to you. "

To Pointless wrote on Sep 17, 2007 7:07 PM:

" You are right! It is time for me to join the socialist mindset, and blindly accept what I am being told because it is 'for the good of the masses'. I should not be thinking independently, because that is just wrong. I should dress, act, and think how you do! I can feel myself changing as we speak! Not all business models are based off the corporate cloning model. Some are based on thinking outside the box and being original. One can not be original if they have been trained to be brainless corporate clones. You post alone shows that. "

JD wrote on Sep 17, 2007 7:03 PM:

" It does not matter what anyone says, supporters of things like this suffer from the inability to understand any opinion other than their own. That is why the dress code is being enacted in the first place, as people are trying to create little clones of themselves because they are obviously superior to everyone else so others should be forced to be like them. For business majors, they seems to have lost business sense. It seems they traded individuality for corporate cloning. Seriously, read what you are saying. You are implying that everyone needs to dress, act, and think the way you do. "

Pointless... wrote on Sep 17, 2007 9:31 AM:

" There is no point in trying to educate JD on the many holes of his arguments. JD, you have an awful attitude, and while you my not be working now, this attitude will probably come with you when you do finally get a job. For your sake, I hope you work out the bitterness you have for the rest of the world, it is no way to live. It must suck being of the belief that nobody wants to help anybody, and everybody has higher motives, even the professors (although you haven't been able to state exactly what their "motive" would be). And every single policy that is ever made is a slight on you, right? Even though it has nothing to do with you, it must somehow be a conspiracy and they are trying to "control" you. They all get off on the power trip, right? What a crappy way to live man. Oh, and I suspect you are a "non-traditional" student because you would rather do that than get a job. "

Duh, JD wrote on Sep 17, 2007 9:24 AM:

" Well then obviously this policy doesn't apply to you!! As a Marketing major, I am just appalled at the ridiculous objections posed by people that aren't even affected by this policy. Only the Business and Marketing Majors will need to dress business casual while attending Business/Marketing classes. You yourself stated that you aren't being prepped for the corporate world, so why the heck to you care about it so much? None of this applies to you - you claim to be an "adult", but only babies get so worked up over every stupid little thing, even when it doesn't apply to them. So, JD, since you are not a business/marketing student, then obviously you won't have to dress like one. Perhaps you ought to think about taking some classes in common sense. "

Again the Mad Ranter to JD wrote on Sep 17, 2007 7:56 AM:

" Great points! Regardless, you still made the CHOICE to attend school there. It should be the students responsibility to investigate all things before making the decision to attend. If this was the only place you could attend, or if you were forced to go there, I could see the issue. Just as non-smokers should have done some investigation before they walked into a smoky restaurant. The state police analogy is 100% non relevant here. Just a few difference. You still pay ISU lots of money 30k+. There is only 1 police (I don't get to pick my own), and so on... "

To: an actual ISU employee wrote on Sep 17, 2007 5:57 AM:

" Well, I've taught at the university level, been active in the community, and had a good job in private industry. I agree that a university is not much like a corporation, but that is both good and bad. I have hired people from academia to work on real business projects and find that they often approach problems from a different perspective, but sometimes that perspective is way too theoretical to be useful. Sometimes, those on campus become too caught up in their cloistered existence, as your comments illustrate. The fundamental reason that the taxpayers of Illinois operate ISU is to train students as future contributors to society. That includes teaching the right skills and attitudes, and that process might not always be based on what's most "comfortable" for the students and staff. To me, proper dress is more about an attitude than a skill. Yes, clothing can change from one day to another but, once formed, attitudes like respect for others, fitting in with a team, and willpower are more persistent. If you, as a public employee, are not willing to help students prepare to fit in, you are in the wrong job. "

an actual ISU employee wrote on Sep 16, 2007 11:26 AM:

" I find all these comments interesting as none of them (except the ones from students) seem to come from anyone who's been near a university recently. Universities are not modelled on corporations, they are modelled on monasteries (ever been to a graduation and seen the robes?). Universities should not be like corporations, though they sadly become more and more like them in the era of privatization and law-and-order politics; that is, an era where people believe authority has declined and that you can restore it with draconian dress policies, incarceration techniques and consumer pharmaceuticals. A very sad state of affairs. If you want it, the way you restore authority is by making people believe in you, listen to you and by entertaining their sometimes adolescent thoughts about freedom. It is not by threatening them with job scarcity for a few comments on a blog where they are trying to express themselves, and learn something in the process. Get some perspective, it's not that big of a deal if the students want to protest this and they'll probably learn something about draconian authoritarians like most of the "business" posters on this blog. "

To: To JD wrote on Sep 16, 2007 8:57 AM:

" Perhaps you are right. Then again, all one has to do is to look at the current state of affairs in Illinois to realize that the 'majority' may be the ones with something wrong with their thought processes. The 'majority' have ran this state into extreme debt, made the state a laughing stock politically, and chased away more business than it has brought in. Maybe it is time to listen to what other say, instead of immediately assuming they are wrong. After all, if people like you really had all the answers, would Illinois be the state it current is? "

To JD wrote on Sep 16, 2007 8:02 AM:

" After considering the logic of your 9/14 10:49 p.m. post and observing your attitude in various other posts, I would never hire you for any kind of management job. Maybe you are an art student or someone who will never seek employment, but as a "non-traditional" student, I assume that you are older and should show more maturity. With over 5200 people in my company (nationwide) reporting to me, I have developed a real sense for who will work out in management, and I see a real problem with your thought process. If you leave Illinois and seek employment, my advice is to not mention your opinions here when you are seeking a job. Maybe someday you will understand what I am talking about. "

JD to Again wrote on Sep 14, 2007 10:49 PM:

" There is a few major difference between businesses and the university. 1. The university does not have a business license. 2. The university is nonprofit. 3. The university is partially funded by tax dollars and the rest by those who go there. Are the state police a business? How about the secretary of state? Nope, these are employees of the state, and the people are the state, and the students are part of the people. I am just glad I am graduating in Dec. Time to get out of this backwater state, and let it rot in the decisions it's people are making. "

JD wrote on Sep 14, 2007 6:52 PM:

" You are making the assumptions I am a 20-something student on mom and dad's tab, and you are wrong. I am a non-traditional student paying my own way through college. I am not paying the university to teach me to dress. I am not paying them to 'prepare me for the corporate world'. I am paying them to educate me in the course I have selected. I am not a child, nor a teen, and do not need some nanny-want-to-be to try and hold my hand and make me into a clone of what they think everyone should be. "

To: Jd wrote on Sep 14, 2007 4:37 PM:

" The University is NOT the employee, and self-righteous people like you make me sick. Grow up and quit acting like you're paying everybody's paycheck, when it's really mommy and daddy footing the bill 90% of the time. Even so, the University is NOT mommy and daddy's employee. When you buy a Subway sandwhich, does the company become your employee? Mommy and daddy are investing in YOUR FUTURE - You won't be able to get a good job without the education, which includes teaching you how to act, talk, and dress for the field you're studying. To prepare you for your future they educate you in every aspect of your future, in this case the fields are Business and Marketing. Even so, if the University were your or your parent's employee, you'd be getting EXACTLY what you paid them for. For pete's sake it's just business casual. You kids whine more than a bunch of 5 year olds, expect everyone to believe you actually care about your future? ADULTS care about their future, they don't whine about what they have to learn and do in order to be successful in it. "

Again the Mad Ranter to JD wrote on Sep 14, 2007 4:04 PM:

" I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. This topic is very similar to the smoking ban nonsense. ISU (Bar) is offering a class (smoking) and they are making the business decision by saying "If you want to take our marketing class you need to dress how we say." (we are making the choice to stay smoking). Therefore, you as a customer, have a choice to either accept their decision on how they want to run their business or you can go elsewhere. I am not saying that this is the best business decision, regardless, it should be the businesses that makes the decisions. Same as if you dont like smoke, dont go into a smoke filled bar. "

JD to: to: never etc wrote on Sep 14, 2007 3:23 PM:

" "Employees don't make up and enforce the dress code, the company does." Exactly!! The university is the employee! They are paid to perform the task of teaching the subject that the student is paying them to teach. Thus the student is the employer. People are trying to run a double standard to justify forcing others to comply with their choices and opinions. If a student wants to pay the university to teach them how to dress, then a dress code is expected for that class. Until then, the university is overstepping it's bounds. "

Oops....Scary wrote on Sep 14, 2007 2:31 PM:

" I meant to post that under a different story....sorry for the interruption "

Scary wrote on Sep 14, 2007 12:53 PM:

" What is more alarming than the growing reports of Child Pornography, is the number of people willing to defend their behavior! Remember that case from a few months back? There were many people that actually thought it was okay for a grown man to take NAKED pictures of 8-year old boys at a birthday sleepover, claiming they got themselves naked on their own accord! My own 8-year old won't even change in front of me, like most kids over the age of 4. But yet there were so many people that thought it was okay, even after a Judge ruled that the children were posed unnaturally in a pornographic fashion. What is wrong with some people? "

To: To never been easier wrote on Sep 14, 2007 12:10 PM:

" Duh! Employees don't make up and enforce the dress code, the company does. You kids are really coming up with some pretty interesting ways to twist things around, but the fact is ALL companies have a dress policy. ALL of them do. For instance, dress code in most factories state employees have to wear long durable pants, steel toed boots, long sleeves to protect their skin, safety glasses, and hard hats. Now, would you still insist that the company is forcing somebody to conform? Most white-collar jobs will have Business Casual dress code AT MINIMUM. Business casual does not mean you have to dress like a completely different person. You can implement your own style into business casual clothing. We could argue about this for hours, but I'm beginning to understand that no matter how many times you KIDS are proven wrong, you will still cry about it - just to have something to whine about. Way to act like adults! "

To: In general part two wrote on Sep 14, 2007 12:01 PM:

" Most say they will know how to dress when the time comes, but these two people claimed to know as well, and they missed out on a wonderful opportunity. The third intern, the one we kept part-time after the summer was over, was extended an excellent full-time job offer available for him after graduation - 4 months in advance. It'd be to the students' advantage to quit complaining and go along with it. Build up and learn appropriate professional habits NOW, so you can be successful in the future. That is, after all, what students go to college for in the first place, right? Besides, it's only Business Casual! CASUAL!! Why are student so against looking fresh and clean? And why are these protesters so intent on showing the world how petty they are, when the "student government" could be putting their energy into something worthwhile? Shameful! "

To: In general part one wrote on Sep 14, 2007 11:58 AM:

" Obviously you are extremely under-educated, so I will just give you the benefit of ignorance for not understanding how this policy provides further education in business and in marketing. Some students are oblivious to the importance of dressing the part - My office employed 3 interns the summer before last, and due to an increase in business we had the intention of retaining them on a part-time basis after school started again in the fall. They were informed of this in the beginning and happy to keep the job on a part-time basis for the money, professional experience, and for networking purposes. We ended up only keeping one of the interns, because he was the only one that understood the importance of dressing appropriately for work. Ironically, he was the one that sported tattoos and a nose piercing (which he took out for work). The others refused "to conform" to the dress policy at our office. The girl wore clothes that she'd wear to a club, and the guy repeatedly came in jeans (after being told not to) and wrinkly shirts, yet both claimed to be serious about their career and education. "

Steve To: To: Never been easier wrote on Sep 14, 2007 10:31 AM:

" Your comment is irrelevant and pointless! "

To: Never been easier wrote on Sep 13, 2007 6:45 PM:

" One could also question the type of employee that feels that everyone needs to be forced to comply with dressing how that person feels they should be dressing. Such an employee is one that would constantly be arbitrating with the employer, because the employee feels they know what is best. That employee will also be shunned at the workplace, because people are not going to trust someone who has nothing better to do but mind everyone else's business. Lastly, one would have to question the productivity of an employee who has nothing better to do, but tell others what not to do. "

WAKE UP wrote on Sep 13, 2007 11:16 AM:

" The SGA has NO POWER. Our student 'constitution' is meaningless, as it should be! Nobody votes in those stupid elections anyways. I have never voted in a single election by choice. The SGA is nothing more than a popularity contest that these fools can put on their resume. Stop crying about this, it is not a big deal. They are not forcing suits and ties! I only wish I was in the COB so I could benefit from this new idea. "

Change if you dont like it wrote on Sep 13, 2007 8:26 AM:

" I went to a business prep high school, had to wear a tie and everything, didnt like it so I did not go into (the) business world. I joined the military, and after serving my four years, I decided I did not like it enough to stay, so I got out. The world of business and marketing involves a lot of aspects of appearance, if you don't like it,, get out! Try to realize who you are as soon as possible. I worked for a federal "carreer and service center" (what they used to call an unemployment office.) We had job seminars and workshops, part of my job was processing the applicants paperwork (these were jobless people) A LOT of them (to my surprise) had bachelors degrees (and sometimes higher.) Probably these were people who did not realize who they were in college! If you are a marketing major and you are one of the ones complaining ( you obviously have not realized yet that marketing has every thing to do with image) it is probably not the right "fit" for you, so get out! Before you waste thousands of mommy and daddy's dollars! "

Life to Mike wrote on Sep 12, 2007 5:03 PM:

" Listen kiddo, I don't want to hurt your feelings, and I really don't want to try to get into a "you are in favor for this... so that MUST mean you are in favor of that" debate. I am going to take a wild guess here, but if in their constitutions it mentions a dress code, is probably meant for the entire campus. Meaning "Hey we are not going to make everyone where the same blue uniform". That is entirely different then when you have a class, where you are being training\taught to be a professional yet you choice to show up as a bum. Again, if you are that opposed to dressing the part, then just take your parents money and go somewhere else. Start making better decisions for yourself. I would say nice try at spinning the whole "constitutions" thing, but really, it wasn't. ~ Life "

Never been easier. wrote on Sep 12, 2007 4:15 PM:

" Does anyone seriously believe that somebody who's willing to raise this kind of stink in regards to a friggin' dress code WON'T be a total pain-in-the-ass employee once they're out of school? I salute the students of ISU for making it easier than ever to identify the bozos of the world. "

to to Mike wrote on Sep 12, 2007 2:55 PM:

" "if you don't like...don't attend ISU" I suppose you are in favor of not following constitutions because ISU's says that dress codes can't be enforced. Would you support then not following other constitutions? "

To Mike wrote on Sep 12, 2007 2:05 PM:

" Try and understand this... You made a choice to go to ISU, therefore, if you are not happy with a dress code being enforce, you should have made a better decision for yourself. If NOT dressing up and trying to look professional is that importation to you, maybe you should have made the CHOICE not to go to ISU. You have no one else to blame but yourself really. Sorry kiddo, life is not fair, and if you don't like it.. Take your money and go somewhere else. Yours Truly ~ Life "

To: To: To: To:? In general wrote on Sep 12, 2007 12:22 PM:

" Nice attitude. Obviously you lack the ability to logically associate the insistence of a arbitrary policy from the COB to the real world and the "education" one would receive...which is what you had claimed originally....so you resort to belittling others. Too bad you can't argue the point. I WIN!!! "

To: To: To:? In general wrote on Sep 12, 2007 10:16 AM:

" It would be part of the education because the students could start to learn these good habits now, and also build up a professional wardrobe, so they'll be ready when they enter the workforce. Duh. Of course, I didn't expect you to know the answer - since this policy obviously doesn't apply to you and you don't attend COB. "

To: To: In general wrote on Sep 12, 2007 10:07 AM:

" What exactly do you think a student is suppose to learn when you state "it is merely a part of business and marketing education". If fashion is that important to a business education, maybe the COB should have classes in fashion design? "

To: TUFF wrote on Sep 12, 2007 10:02 AM:

" What do you have against Peoria? Obviously you aren't informed about Bradley University...which calls into question the intelligence of anything you have to say. Maybe you should be the one moving to Chicago. "

To: JD (continued) wrote on Sep 12, 2007 9:28 AM:

" From talking with some faculty members, I understand that this policy is for Business and Marketing majors, or "non-crossover" students. This is to further combine their education with hands-on experience. Many students will get an internship, if they haven't already, and don't realize they can ruin their chances of being hired if they don't dress the part. Most say, "We have the common sense to dress right for work". Truth is, most students are clinging to remain a student as long as possible, and a lot consider internships and hands-on training only as a part of school, not the "real world" and feel it's okay to show up in pajamas or clothes you'd wear to a club. COB is notorious for setting up business networks for students to land a great job right out of school. To get your foot in the door, you must show employers that you take your education and business seriously by dressing the part. If you don't bother wearing something nicer than a ratty t-shirt for your internship or to meet a business contact - which is always possible at COB - then why should they believe you'll dress right for work? "

To: JD wrote on Sep 12, 2007 9:22 AM:

" As a Business student, I can tell you most business students already have a laptop and would rather use that to take their notes in class. There has been so much to-do over a policy who's main opponents aren't even affected. You did raise a valid point, however, regarding "crossover classes", so I tried to nonchalantly bring it up with a couple of professors from COB. The consensus was this: Like most policies, the enforcement is really up to the discretion of the professor. Most are reasonable people who probably also questioned parts of the policy, if only to get clarity on what would constitute as an exception. There again, it's up to the professors' discretion. Of course, the only way a "crossover" student can get an answer to his question regarding the need for cross-over students to dress business casual, is to ask their own professor. "

ISU Marketing Alum wrote on Sep 12, 2007 7:39 AM:

" Oh cry me a river...are you kidding me? As an ISU Marketing Alum, gimme a break. This is exactly what I mean about our generation being the "gimme gimme gimme" and "me me me" generation. Get over it! When you get your full time jobs at places like State Farm, you aren't going to be able to lobby against it! And, if I remember correctly, aren't those classes only two days a week? Change in and out before and after. WOW. "

JD wrote on Sep 11, 2007 7:56 PM:

" I may not be a business major, but the policy could very well affect those in my degree program, and others. The computer science program requires a statistics class be taken, which is taught at the COB. So should CS students have to dress in business casual for the 1 class just because it is taught by the COB? Like I stated before, every field has a bit of crossover with other fields. The ITK department is thinking of requiring laptops. Would it be right to require business students to have laptops for the 1 ITK class they take? "

Tuff wrote on Sep 11, 2007 1:55 PM:

" Dont like the dress code,Change classes!!!! Spoiled ISU kids trash our neighborhoods,Vandalize everything in sight,and scream about how thios town would not exist without them. Hogwash......Act like people and you will be treated like people. Dont like it,Go to Chicago or Peoria,They have lotsa people like you. "

Affliction. wrote on Sep 11, 2007 12:43 PM:

" I am afflicted with an oft-undiagnosed form of Alzheimer's. It's amazing how much I've forgotten over the years, because I surely knew everything when I was in college. "

Steve wrote on Sep 11, 2007 10:59 AM:

" TO SUMMER INTERNS>Your comments are valid and prove the point. If someone does not teach them what is proper, they will not know! I approve of this policy. Also, being a man who has attended college classes recently, I can honestly say that the way these girls dress is a HUGE distraction, and I'd say an unwelcome one! "

Daryl wrote on Sep 11, 2007 10:20 AM:

" When i was at a public college as well, I had to wear buisness attire periodiclly to class... if you hate it so much, drop the class! "

Summer Interns wrote on Sep 11, 2007 10:10 AM:

" I work for a small company that had two interns this summer. We're not a formal company by any means (I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans right now). But it gets a little embarrassing when a client comes in for a meeting and you have to worry about how much cleavage and/or buttcrack your 20-year-old interns will be showing that day. It was kind of funny at first (we actually started referring to one of them as "Coinslot"), but got old really fast. Both of these students attended higher-caliber schools than ISU (ie, Big Ten schools). One would think they'd know better, but this experience has shown otherwise... "

To: In general wrote on Sep 11, 2007 9:48 AM:

" Thank you so much for proving the other comments right! You are a bunch of whiners acting like 5-year olds and not college students. If you were an adult, then you would know this is not a "ego/power trip", it is merely a part of business and marketing education. Do you attend COB? Obviously not, because you have no idea what you're talking about. "

To: Sad day wrote on Sep 11, 2007 9:45 AM:

" I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a Nudist Colony Major, or even a College of Nudists. So, your oh-so-cute anecdote is way off. But nice try. "

To: In general wrote on Sep 11, 2007 9:44 AM:

" To compare this policy to a Catholic Grade school is not only inappropriate, but childish. COB students aren't being asked to wear a uniform, simply to dress like they didn't just grab the first ratty t-shirt they could find. You kids are acting like you're being forced to wear a monkey suit. You're only showing your immaturity by all this whining a crying simply because you're being asked to dress a step up from a slob (or a hooker). It makes good sense to instill positive habits that would be expected of a business/marketing employee to make a smoother transition from student to employee. These positive habits are obviously a part of the education, which is why you're in college in the first place. Besides, better to start building up a good business wardrobe so you won't have to recycle the same outfit every other day when you do start working. Grow up and protest something that matters! Why are you kids so hell-bent on showing the world what babies you are? "

Duh wrote on Sep 11, 2007 9:36 AM:

" If students didnt show up in PJs then there would have been no need for a mandatory dress code. They brought it upon themselves. "

To: JD wrote on Sep 11, 2007 9:34 AM:

" It's demeaning to the professors when students show up to class in pajamas, hoochie wear, pants down to their knees, or like you just grabbed whatever was on top of your clothes hamper. Most business and marketing students already dress business casual - it makes sense since they're also working an internship. Business and marketing professors are merely asking students to dress the part while in class. I remember you stating that you aren't a COB student, and this policy doesn't apply to you. So why the whining? Business casual is inexpensive and very comfortable, hence the word "casual", and it makes sense to stock up for when you get a job. All the professors are asking of their students is to show a little respect when they come to class. So the boys can concentrate on their education, rather than what they would have to do to get in the pants of the girl next to him that needn't bother wear a shirt when she already has everything hanging out for all to see. What am I saying? You wouldn't have to do much to get into HER pants! "

Sad Day wrote on Sep 10, 2007 7:57 PM:

" I may one day be employed by a nudest camp that would require me to work naked. I wonder how they would feel if I attended their classes naked, in preparation for that day? "

In General wrote on Sep 10, 2007 7:22 PM:

" ...Is this a school of "higher education" or a Catholic grade school? Can any one tell me how wearing business casual clothing yo class actually prepares a student for life out of college? Certainly if you just tell them, "a lot of you will be required to wear business casual to work" that would drive the point home. Is making them wear it when in classes doing anything more than satisfying a professors ego/power trip? "

JD wrote on Sep 10, 2007 5:21 PM:

" Another way of looking at it, is do they really think a person can pass their 'rigorous' course schedule, and not know how to dress for whatever situation they are put into? It is demeaning to the students to continue to treat them like children. We are suppose to be treating them as adults, not brainless drones of the faceless corporate world. Those that feel they know better how other should dress may find things hard in the real world. After all, those people are to busy minding everyone else's business to mind their own. "

to grow up wrote on Sep 10, 2007 4:37 PM:

" wow, you're a positive person aren't you? many of today's professionals dressed in jeans and t-shirts while in college. I know it may be amazing to think that you can seperate when it's appropriate to dress up vs. casual. I'm amazed that we were able to do it with out guidance "

Mike wrote on Sep 10, 2007 1:45 PM:

" I think the main thing you're not really thinking about here GROW UP (et al.) is that when I have a job, they're going to pay me to do a job or represent their company in a certain way. On the other hand, as long as I (Okay... My parents) am paying to attend this university I should have the right to wear 'normal' attire to class. This also goes without saying that I do believe there should be a minimally enforced dress policy (IE: No PJs in the COB, ect...). "

To: GROW UP!! wrote on Sep 10, 2007 1:43 PM:

" Nice reply....but a totally obtuse comment. You missed the point of the entire discussion. We aren't debating if we need to dress up when we are expected to get into the "real world". If you can't stick to the topic, then write your own letter to the editor. I suggest you follow your "

GROW UP!! wrote on Sep 10, 2007 1:12 PM:

" Bottom line, whether you "KIDS" like it or not. When you get out of school and have to start acting like grown ups, you will find that most, if not all, employers will have a dress policy. For the person who went to school and claims that their clothes are their own personal choice - good for you that you have a boss that will roll over and not really expect you to go by their dress policy, as most employers would simply terminate you if you don't like it, and find someone willing to follow the rules. "

Mike wrote on Sep 10, 2007 12:57 PM:

" As a COB student at ISU I can honestly say that this new dress code is completely absurd. Simply put, one branch of the COB (in this case marketing) cannot realistically hope to enforce a rule like this. I would say estimate that at least 90% of COB students dress in 'normal' attire each day. Nobody is going to dress up for one class, then change between each of them. If you then extend this logic you can come to the conclusion the marketing school is forcing you to dress up for pretty much every class you goto, whether it's related to business or not. Simply put, ISU isn't an elitist-Ivy college ladies and gentlemen, it's a public university. "

Student turned employee wrote on Sep 9, 2007 9:21 PM:

" I think that most corporate employees would rather run their own small business, if it was successful. But that's a big "if", that doesn't just happen. I doubt that many business students are going to school with the idea of starting their own business right after graduation. It happens, but people who successfully do that are rare, because even if they have the technical knowledge from business school, they don't have the practical knowledge about the business opportunity or the capital to fund a start-up. I think that most business school students will start out working for someone else after graduation, and some will eventually leave to begin their own business. "

And another thing!! wrote on Sep 9, 2007 6:46 PM:

" How does mandating a segment of the student body to wear certain clothes relate to picking your own classes or course work (per the last sentence of your arguement)? Truely strange logic. Guessing you did not join the debate team. "

To: To: To:? Cream and Maybe wrote on Sep 9, 2007 6:37 PM:

" Come on! The only thing college professors and administrators are looking out for is a pay check. If you don't think I am an adult (at 37) because I disagree with a dress code at a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY I am okay with that. I am not whining. I am stating my opinion on the subject, as are you. I guess it shows the kind of mentality the ISU COB churns out. Maybe I should put on my dockers and white shirt and fall in line with the rest of you BUSINESS people. Time for me to grow up and conform, eh? I'll wait right here until some professor can write in and tell me what I think. "

I have spent 6 years in biz school... wrote on Sep 9, 2007 9:26 AM:

" …and know a lot about the business world. But my clothes are my own personal matter, not the concern of professors or bosses. They should only appreciate my ideas. If I want to wear sweats, who cares because my ideas are so good? If I don’t have to worry about dressing up or coming in for regular hours, I can really think. I have great ideas that will change a lot, and I want an employer who will listen to make big profits so I can get big bonuses. What do ideas have to do with my clothes or how many hours I spend at work? If anybody has a job open, let me know. I will be dedicated. I want a 6-figure salary guarantee, bonuses, big office, with lots of time flexibility. I want 6 weeks vacation so I can rest after thinking. I know word, excel, pp and access and make good presentations if I am comfortably dressed. My grades have been OK, but could have been higher if the profs could see how my ideas are better than theirs. Post your jobs here and I’ll get back to you after my trip to the beach. ;-) "

JD to: To: To: To: etc wrote on Sep 8, 2007 9:49 PM:

" People get their business degrees for a plethora of reasons. Some want to work for corporations, others to better run a small 'mom and pop' organization, and just do it just because they want the degree to look at. Who is anyone else to question why they are getting their business degree, and attending the COB? Are they suppose to fit into this mold you have put yourself into? If this is what you expect, it is not wonder you want them to dress how deem fit, as you are obviously just trying to make everyone else be like you, if they want to or not. "

To: To: To:? Cream and Maybe wrote on Sep 7, 2007 3:12 PM:

" This is in regards to your last comment. If you have no aspirations to be in THAT kind of business, then why are you attending COB? And if you don't even attend COB, then why are you even complaining? You kids nowadays (yes that applies to you even if you consider yourself "adult" since only a kid would whine about what their professors expect of them when their professors are looking out for their future - even when you kids refuse to) expect everything to happen their way. You want to go to college to learn a career? Well, you don't get to pick and choose what part of the curriculum you will go along with, as you know it will ruin your grade. "

Duh!! wrote on Sep 7, 2007 3:02 PM:

" I doubt somebody spending all their money (or their parent's money) or going into debt to attend COB has aspirations to become the gentleman on the corner selling corn cobs or whatever. Quit acting like big babies and get with the program! "

To TO CREAM/Maybe wrote on Sep 7, 2007 2:00 PM:

" You prove my point. The generic "Marketing" and "Business" tags applied by the COB (or MOB) groups people into catagories that are not representative or Business as a whole. I doubt you have even been exposed to 90% of the business world on which you comment. Is a Manager at Kroger in the business world? Is a shop owner in down-town Bloomington in the business world. How about the guy on the corner selling sweet corn? Not "business" enough for you? I think what you are so narrowly considering ALL business is BIG business. The Corperate GRIND. The mindless shuffling of papers and endless meetings talking about nothing. I am a very aware of the segment. Business takes on many forms and IMAGES. To assume all who practice or want to practice "business" or "marketing" will have to dress like the corperate clone is FOOLISH. AND my parents haven't bought me any clothes since 1989. "

To: Poppy wrote on Sep 7, 2007 10:59 AM:

" I like your thinking........what about the girls planning on a job as an exotic dancer? "

To: To: Maybe and Cream wrote on Sep 6, 2007 11:19 PM:

" I am not a business or marketing major, but my major requires that I take some classes at the COB. Should I also be forced to wear business casual? You see, all majors have some overlap with other majors. A policy like this affects those who have little to do with the COB other than having to take 1 or 2 classes there. It would be like the ITK department requiring laptops (which has been thought about) which would require even those in the entry level ITK 150 (basic computing) to have laptops. "

JD wrote on Sep 6, 2007 4:58 PM:

" The university is not the business world. To constantly attempt to link education with business is a fallacy. Many people who get degrees do not even go into business related to the degree. I could understand if the class was business attire 101, but who is to judge how people choose to dress on their own time, and college is their time as the students are the ones employing the college. It is like an employee telling the boss how to dress, and threating to get mad if they boss does not comply. "

To: Maybe and Cream wrote on Sep 6, 2007 4:54 PM:

" Both your comments (though I'm betting you're the same person) show why you'll never make it in business. Let's keep in mind, it's only COB and Marketing Depts instituting this policy to prepare students for the inevitable. No "uniform" is required, merely that business and marketing student dress business casual. Before you cry another river about the cost, business casual costs no more than any other clothes you (or mommy and daddy) buy. Business/marketing students are going to need these clothes so it's a sound investment. No discrimination here, but part of the education in the COB is hands-on, most students work in a business environment for part of their grade, and guess what? If any of them were to show up in pajamas for class/internship, do you think the company that's allowing their foot in the door would take them seriously? Most business student already know this, but apparently there are some that are oblivious, hence the new policy. Your attitude certainly will not get you anywhere in business - and if you've no interest in business then you should have no interest in the policy either, since it doesn't apply to you. "

Poppy wrote on Sep 6, 2007 4:14 PM:

" If the business uniform is a "vastly outdated ideal" then 90% of he business world didn't get the memo! Much of the business world still operates on the idea of appearance. I know the internet has changed some aspects of this, but not every company has become a loose association of computer nerds(at least not yet!) "

Maybe wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:48 PM:

" Maybe we should start requiring those High School students who cannot (or do not plan to) go to college to wear McDonalds uniforms or Janitors outfits to prepare THEM for life after high school. That is the same ideology. To Assume that marketing and business students will HAVE to wear Dockers and dress sock when they gradutate is mindless. It is a big world out there. There are lots of places where the "State Farm Uniform" is not par for the course. "

CREAM pt. 2 wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:36 PM:

" Kids have books, rent, food, cars, fees, tuition, and other costs to worry about. Now they are forced to supply specific attire just to attend class. Sounds like an underhanded way to economically eliminate or disadvantage a certain segment of the population; the poor. Sounds like "THE MAN" is alive and well at ISU. "

C.R.E.A.M. wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:33 PM:

" Cash Rules Everything Around Me. The only way to effect this policy is to effect the amount of money the college gets in tuition and alumni donations. That is the most effective way to get their attention. To suggest that one must dress a certain way to be successful in business is disciminatory and wrong. Google is an excellent example. The whole idea of a 'Business uniform' is an vastly out-dated ideal. "

I agree wrote on Sep 6, 2007 10:47 AM:

" I don't care how old you are, if you are just going to whine everytime you have to do something you don't WANT to do, then "children" or "kids" is a fitting label. Why would you choose the business world if you did not want to dress up anyway? "

To: Do you know....(continued) wrote on Sep 6, 2007 10:05 AM:

" And come one, trading in your ripped t-shirts for a polo shirt, or merely a shirt with a collar, is no big deal and the clothing isn't any more expensive than the Ambercrombie and Fitch clothes you kids like to sport these days. Yes, I said it, KIDS. I will continue to say it even about so-called "adults" who are attending college and complain about having to dress in clean clothes without offensive phrases or tops that barely cover womens' breasts, and those silly boys that compete to wear their pants as low as possible without them falling down, so the rest of us are forced to see their skid-marked underwear. "

To: Do you know.... wrote on Sep 6, 2007 10:04 AM:

" Actually I DO! I graduated from the COB 3 years ago. It was a ball-busting experience, but worth it. Most of us dressed business casual anyway because it made sense to dress the part. Especially since most of us had to work at our internships for little or no pay after a long day of classes, which started at 7:00am for me. The idea you are trying to portray about how awful it is to expect someone to walk around in Business Casual is ludicrous! Business Casual clothing does not weigh more than your other clothes. In fact, Business Casual can be quite comfortable - hence the use of the word casual. In fact, I would think that most khaki pants would actually weigh less than jeans, and are very comfy. "

Do you know... wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:33 AM:

" what a college student's day is like? Many of you "adults" have an idea that students wake up around noon, go to class for an hour and then come home and nap until it is time to go out at night. Most of us, however, wake up & are in class by 9, walk back and forth between classes until 3 or 4 in the afternoon, then during our 1 or 2 hour breaks throughout the day we have to meet with professors, work a part time job, go to the library to study, eat meals, and try to stay healthy at the gym. We don't get to drive to class in the morning & sit in one air conditioned room until our lunch break. Why don't you "professionals" try putting on your business casual dress and walking a half mile in 5 minutes carrying 25lbs of books in 90 degree weather. "

To: ISU Student and Professional wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:24 AM:

" Interesting, your comment sounds like it came out of the mouth of a typical college student, but nothing about it comes remotely close to describing you as a professional. "

To: NOT a Hoochie wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:23 AM:

" Interesting, you claim to be a responsible attentive student, but how could that even be possible if you barely make the time to stumble into class after a night of partying? You don't have to be doctor to know that nobody would be able to truly be attentive in class if you didn't bother to get any sleep, or sober up, before coming to class. You also claim to want the "whole college experience". The college experience actually about education, not partying all night and arriving half drunk to class. The whole college experience would be doing everything your professors asked of you in order for you to prepare yourself for the career you're studying for in the first place. That is, after all, what college is there for, NOT merely to break the monotony of partying all night. You say your not a hoochie, and a responsible student, but your actions say otherwise. "

will the COB help pay for this? wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:23 AM:

" I think the big issue here is that the students are not getting paid to attend class. Yes, in the long run they will profit from their educations, but for the time being most students are taking classes and working in order to support themselves or offset the cost of loans. While I think most students realize that this type of attire will eventually necessary, professors and professionals in the COB must also realize that this may seem like an expensive request to some students. After students (or whoever is paying for school-even if parents are helping out, they most likely do not like parting with $20k/year) pay tuition & fees to the university, they must pay well in to the hundreds for textbooks, then have money left over to pay rent & utilities, and must now also buy a new wardrobe? "

ISU Student and Professional wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:16 AM:

" Some of us who attend Illinois State University are already IN the "real world." Some of us already have full time jobs at State Farm, and also go to school at night. When I am at work, I wear business casual. Some of us here on this campus, who attend classes almost daily, are not "kids", nor do we need to "get with the program." Speaking as a professional AND as a college student, when I am in class, I should be able to wear whatever the hell I want. "

NOT a hoochie wrote on Sep 6, 2007 9:09 AM:

" I take offense to people making remarks about 'hoochie' clothes (which by the way isn't what we call those girls anymore). Who cares what I wear to class as long as I'm there and attentive to what is going on in class. We are only in college a short amount of time and some of us want to get the full experience out of our college careers. If this means that I go to class on my way home from the night before, so be it. "

Timothy Leary wrote on Sep 6, 2007 3:09 AM:

" In the good old college days at Berkley we protested war and the draft and government intervention in our lives. I thought we run out of causes. I'm gonna mix up a batch of that good old special OJ and fire up the VW mini micro bus and head on down to (HUH?) Normal, Illinois. Sunshine ......don't forget to pack plenty of jammies. "

ISU ALUMNI33 wrote on Sep 5, 2007 7:57 PM:

" As a ISU alumni with a Bachelor of Science degree in Recreation and Park Administration, we were encouraged to dress in business casual clothing. While returning to school for my second bachelor degree in physical education, I was forced to follow the professional attire in my classes when we were teaching. While I understand that this is a different department, but we are attempting to sell our selves and must be marketable. If we cannot dress appropriate then how can we market our product or company. "

To: Why stop at clothing, Part Two wrote on Sep 5, 2007 2:18 PM:

" Also, for the guy that has a problem with the use of the word "kids" this obviously doesn't apply to you - you are not a student and no longer a kid. However, I agree with the usage as longs as those "kids" are going to complain about being forced to wear something other than p.j.'s and hoochie wear to their business classes. The majority of people that have a problem with this policy don't even attend COB or anything that could be considered a marketing class. The majority of students that I have spoken with, whom this policy does apply, and they're in agreement and most of them aren't affected since they've realized long ago how to dress for success and out of respect for their professors. Most are in internships are already dressed that way, so it doesn't really bother them. Yet, I'm hearing all types of objections from people that have nothing to do with the college or the policy. This policy makes sense for the COB. Maybe it wouldn't in your individual situations, but then this doesn't apply to your situations. "

To: Why stop at clothing, Part One wrote on Sep 5, 2007 2:13 PM:

" While I agree with the COB and Marketing Dept's decision to enforce a Business Casual dress code for their classes, I find your post appalling. But I suppose you radicals and agenda pushing so-called Christians will use any excuse to enforce your ideals on the rest of the population. Ever heard of separation of Church and School? Well, your idea would violate that, and probably cause a bigger outrage than this dress code. "

To: TO; Why stop at clothing wrote on Sep 5, 2007 12:46 PM:

" Face the music people, we are in a holy war.....like it or not We need good Christians to stand up and fight the fight for Christ. Simplistic thinking brought on by sloven dress is the exact wrong messgae when need to be allowing for our children....I would even suggest uniform unifroms be required for all people within education...We need to prepare ourselves to the reality that the uniform is becoming the norm and many of these younger generations will likely die in their uniforms fighting these Isalmic ideals brought about by corrupt thinking. I also think we need good Christians to start producing more babies for God's army and the fight to come....it will take decades and/or centuries for us to rid the world of these radical terrorists. I appluad the simple steps ISU has taken, bit we must continue to make progress against those that fight us. "

TO; Why stop at clothing wrote on Sep 5, 2007 11:56 AM:

" Did you read your post? "Getting these younger kids to dress and act like good Christian soldiers will be the first step to fighting the war on terror and these radical Islam idealists." Who then to fight these radical christian ideas? People seem to think that ONLY Muslims can be "radicals." There have been more people killed in the name of Christ than is imaginable. So maybe we shouldn't have these students marching to your drumbeat. "

Why stop at clothing? wrote on Sep 5, 2007 11:32 AM:

" I totally agree with this position...I only think we should take it even further. It's time we brought back basic Christian values back into our schools and force everyone to start their classes and meetings with a prayer. The world has turned corrupt and it is due mostly to the younger generation's greed. Getting these younger kids to dress and act like good Christian soldiers will be the first step to fighting the war on terror and these radical Islam idealists. We need to start building our Armies of Christ NOW, and I applaud any efforts to whip this younger generation into shape. "

so the true message is: wrote on Sep 5, 2007 11:29 AM:

" "The gov't bodies make the rules and can change them as they please, so DO NOT think you have a say or your opinion matters. Because it doesn't. WE are in control." "

To; Questions wrote on Sep 5, 2007 11:29 AM:

" First off why do you keep saying, "you kids" I no longer attend college as I have graduated. While attending college I wore jeans, jersey's, and t-shirts. Now that I've graduated I work in a bank and guess what I wear to work? Suits. So how was the fact that I wore "slobby clothes" in ANY way inhibiting in my education? We have to wear suits enough in life let them have their 4 years to express themselves before being forced to conform to societies ideas of a "perfect employee." Secondly this constitution wasn't "modified" to fit the situation. It has been on the books. I am SO glad to see that the university gives the students the rights to form a constitution and abide by it, until they don't like it. I know another group of long haired "slackers" that wrote their own constitution and look what happened to those that attempted to stop it. BEWARE ISU, you are on the verge of a revolution. "

I agree wrote on Sep 5, 2007 9:20 AM:

" Whats next, are they going to whine when someone takes their "right" to drink underage, party, and leave Willow St. in a drunken shamble every thursday-sunday? "

To: Re: To: Question wrote on Sep 5, 2007 8:52 AM:

" Nope, YOU are wrong! University policy overrides any "student government" so-called constitution you kids made up one day. Actually, I take back a little of my ire, because when the student government really started to make waves so many years, decades, ago, they made waves over the things that really matter - taking into account the bigger picture. Nowadays, the "student government" (guess why I'm using quotes), only gets upset whenever they perceive somebody is trying order them around, no matter how much sense it makes for their education - and even if it doesn't have anything to do with them or their major. Nowadays, you kids get yourselves riled up about everything, seeing everything as an attack on your "independence, and rights" - even when such actions are put into place for YOUR benefit. But I'm getting off point, which is simple, University overrides your non-official, complete with whiny undertones, student "bill of rights". "

To wear clothes or not wrote on Sep 4, 2007 9:39 PM:

" I don't care if students wear nice clothes, comfy clothes, or even no clothes. as a matter of fact, the willow street alum should be nakie, I drive that about 10 times a day. "

Constitution!! wrote on Sep 4, 2007 9:33 PM:

" There is actually a statement about being free from mandatory dress code? Wonderful...Maybe its time the staff starts running around in THEIR skivvies showing butt crack, cleavage or whatever else makes them happy for a change. See how much education you take in looking at some of THAT all day every day. And you'll get a lesson in what you actually look like, give or take a few wrinkles and pounds. Would you or your parents take the business classes or the instructor seriously if they weren't dressed appropriately? Grow up, you'll have to sooner or later. "

To: JD wrote on Sep 4, 2007 5:06 PM:

" From what I understand of it - I'm a Marketing student - is that we are to dress business casual for marketing and business classes, and are free to dress like slobs for other classes. Business casual is no big deal, and it's better to build up the wardrobe now, rather than have to recycle the same outfit every couple of days. And note the use of the word CASUAL. They really aren't asking that much out of us. And most graduate students, like myself, have jobs and internships that we're working, so it makes sense to dress the part. All they are asking, is just one tiny small step above looking like a slob, or disrespectful student like yourself who pays no mind to the wisdom our esteemed professors attempt to pass on to us. It's a part of learning, and it's better to learn everything now, and start instilling these good habits now, to make us strong, prospective candidates to those companies we want to be a part of. "

RE: TO question... wrote on Sep 4, 2007 4:46 PM:

" WRONG AGAIN. I quote from the article: “the right to be free from any mandatory dress code,” according to Article 1, Section 1, Letter J of the SGA’s Constitution." So this is a constitutional issue. Please learn to read before you make remarks. "

To bubba wrote on Sep 4, 2007 4:03 PM:

" Did you by chance enjoy the "girls" you happened to stare at? Or maybe even the cheeks that were in sight for you to gaze upon? I personaly don't care what people wear, but the less the better imo! "

To: Question wrote on Sep 4, 2007 3:42 PM:

" This is hardly a constitutional violation. You people are such drama queens! "

JD (cont) wrote on Sep 4, 2007 3:37 PM:

" And if the COB manages to enact a dress code, do you really think that it will not be passed to the other departments? Just like everyone in B-N likes to scream, they will have to 'even the playing field'. Not to mention that many majors have classes which they have to attend the COB for, like ITK taking statistics. Should those other majors have to obey the dress code also? So in the end, you either end up with other majors being affected, or a class with half in business casual and the other half in shorts and tee shirts. You people really are clueless about what goes on at ISU. I doubt is many of you have more than a HS diploma. "

JD wrote on Sep 4, 2007 3:33 PM:

" You are right. I would know why less than someone not even attending the university. After all, I have only been attending ISU for years, what would I know about it? Not to mention that I used to have my own business, so what would I know about the business world. Your misunderstanding of Computer Science says how much you understand about higher education. The 'geeks' are the ones who now own your mortgages, answer your inane questions, and make your life easier through technology. Pocket protectors? Geeks use PDAs, laptops, smartphones, and WiFI. "

to part 1 wrote on Sep 4, 2007 3:18 PM:

" That's what I liked about the summertime and ISU...get my frills before going to class with a bunch of unshaven, unshowered computer geeks who hadn't showed in a week because they were up all night playing WoW. "

Accredited 2.0 wrote on Sep 4, 2007 3:15 PM:

" Well then let me congratulate you on being a "Business professional". Your progression from chief car vacuumer to Assistant Branch Manager must have been a highlight.... Take offense all you want but I bet your bosses boss went to a much better school than ISU. "

question wrote on Sep 4, 2007 3:11 PM:

" Can't the marking dept. address the lesson without violating the constitution? Seems like something could be worked out... It's not a world crisis. "

Slyr_Rbbt wrote on Sep 4, 2007 12:52 PM:

" Also JD, it isn't Illinois State that is implementing the dress code. It is the administration and staff of the College of Business that is putting the dress code in effect. What they do has no bearing on what other colleges within the University are doing. You need to unplug once in a while and stop jumping to these drastic conclusions and conspiracy theories. If anyone is getting off, it's you complaining about a policy that neither effects or applies to any aspect of your life as a student of Illinois State or an ITK Major. "

TO: JD from Gov't Opressed Mule wrote on Sep 4, 2007 12:48 PM:

" JD, HOW DARE YOU! What makes you think that anyone will listen to you, because your opinion differs? (in case you can't tell I am being facetious.) JD your points are well thought out and completley accrate, but you forget we live in B/N, where ANY difference of opinion is only met w/ disdain and contempt (as is evident in these posts to you.) KEEP FIGHTING! This is just another way the gov't bodies have taken free choice. LONG LIVE FASCISM! "

To: "Poor" JD, part two wrote on Sep 4, 2007 11:19 AM:

" I'm pretty sure you have little to worry about, after all what kind of dress policy would they enforce for your major? Pocket protectors, retainers, and floodwater pants? Save your energy for fights that actually affect you, and are more important than not being allowed to wear jammies to class. These professors aren't "getting off" by enforcing this policy (way to act like an "adult" though), they are merely doing what marketing and business students are paying them for, which is preparing them for their eventual careers. "

To: "Poor" JD, part one wrote on Sep 4, 2007 11:19 AM:

" If you're not a marketing student, then quit whining! I'll bet the other staff members who supposedly think this is a stupid idea are not professors in the Business School, if they were, then they would know better than to be so completed disrespectful to their colleagues that see this policy as necessary. And since you are not a business or marketing student, then how do you know if it's not necessary? You obviously know nothing on the subject. In business and marketing, it is important to dress the job. I doubt the rest of the school would enforce such a policy if it were inappropriate - although it seems some of you students do need to take on class on how disgusting and disrespectful it is when you show up to class in your p.j.'s or nasty, wrinkly clothes with stains all over them that smell nasty, or especially when the "women" (using that term loosely, as real ladies wouldn't do this) wear their hooker boots and hoochie skirts that barely cover their bottom when they are standing up, and flash whomever is unfortunate enough to be around when they bend over. "

JD wrote on Sep 4, 2007 10:43 AM:

" No, I am not a marketing major. I attend ISU for Computer Science in the ITK Department. I do know though, that if ISU is allowed to enforce a dress code for marketing, it would only be a short matter of time before ISU starts demanding all departments abid by the dress code. I am an adult (in the age group with the professors) and still think this is ludicrous. Even many of the ISU staff I have talked to think this is just crazy. The ones who support things like this are those who get off making others do things. "

JD wrote on Sep 4, 2007 10:29 AM:

" As a student, you have a lot to learn. You should listen to those professors that you have so little respect for. They know more than you do about the professional world. By requiring Marketing majors to dress business casual they are actually helping you. But you are too self centered to figure that out yet. "

to: JD wrote on Sep 4, 2007 10:26 AM:

" Are you a poor student who is just down on university professors? Most of them teach because they enjoy it. Many of them also work in the "professional" sector as consultants. I know, I have worked with lots of them. Then there are the professors who teach, and do research, as in the sciences, that make your life better. Yes, there are some great scientists at ISU. Most of the professors at ISU are brilliant people who could really give you some good advise on many aspects of professional life and business. No, I am not a professor nor am I related to one. But I have respected most if not all my professors because of their insight into many aspects of the "real" world. Perhaps you should grow up and quit putting down some really wonderful people. "

to: Accredited wrote on Sep 4, 2007 10:20 AM:

" As an ISU alum, I take offense at your comments. As a business professional, I have alot of ISU graduates working with me. They are all sharp, well educated individuals. ISU is also one of the best "teaching" schools in the country, which was its orginal purpose when started many years ago. It is a good school with an excellent record and of course, it is accredited. "

Re: JD's comment wrote on Sep 4, 2007 10:13 AM:

" YOU are missing the point. Universities are paid to provide an education to prepare you for your career. You don't get to pick and choose which aspects you think the Professors should teach about based entirely on what you prefer. You pay (rather, mommy and daddy pays) the professors to teach EVERY aspect of that career, even the parts you don't like. You sound like a very disrespectful student, and the problem is not with policy, rather with you KIDS expecting professors to kiss your butts because of what your parents pay them. You wanted an education to get a good career, this is a part of that education. You're just upset that your professors no longer will allow you to attend class in your p.j's, or with your pants so low everybody has see what your underwear looks like. When you're finally in the world of Marketing, you'll be expected to dress Business Professional 98% of the time (allowing for casual Fridays of course). This is exactly what you signed up for: an education that would provide you with the tools you will need for a successful marketing career. "

To: JD wrote on Sep 4, 2007 9:59 AM:

" You're right, Universities are given money by the student's (usually their parents pay, and most probably agree with the new policy) so the students can gain an education that will lead them to their eventual career. Sounds like this is legitimate a part of that education. It's no different than nursing STUDENTS wearing a uniform to class, or lab students wearing their lab coats and not allowed to wear loose clothing. Also, I have a question for you and all the rest of the whining "adult" population that has a problem with this: Are you even Marketing majors? Remember, this only applies to them. If you are, then you should have no problem because you should completely understand why Marketing Dept and School of Business would make this a part of curriculum. If you're a Marketing student who does have a problem with this, then you're obviously being educated in the wrong career, and it sounds like a horrible fit for you. Change majors if you can, otherwise you will be miserable every morning you have to wake up to go to work. "

Slyr_Rbbt wrote on Sep 4, 2007 9:52 AM:

" I think it is funny that the majority of complaints are comming from A.)Students who are not Marketing Majors who are uneffected by the dress code B.) People who are either not educated, unemployed or both who have no business commenting on this. By the way "Accredited," Illinois State has one of the most competitive and recruited Business Schools in the country. Why don't you go spend some time in the sun away from your mothers bacement and computer. Get a life people!! "

Practice is apparent wrote on Sep 3, 2007 4:58 PM:

" I own my own business. Dressing well is something that takes practice, Practice finding what clothes fit you well; practice to press well; practice to care for your clothes through a day; practice to be comfortable in your prepared attire. School is about practice for the real world and learning to be comfortably dressed in professional attire should not be distressing, just practice. "

JD wrote on Sep 3, 2007 2:00 PM:

" People seem to be missing the point that universities are hired to perform a task by those attending. It is not like public school, which people are entitled too. Those attending university are paying the staff to teach them. They are not paying them to critic clothing, hold their hands, or coddle them. The universities only job is to perform the hired task of teaching the classes those attending are paying to be taught. Speaking as a student, if I wanted advice on things professional, I would not be asking university professors who, to be honest, are mostly teaching because they can not make it in the private sector. "

DW Nolan '96 wrote on Sep 3, 2007 12:31 PM:

" I sell million dollar yachts and am an ISU alum. I have always felt that in sales it is wise to dress like your customers. I know guys who sell million dollar tractors and aren't afraid to wear jeans and boots with mud on them. To think that they are taught to wear 'business casual' in sales is teaching them not to think for themselves. There is no standard attire when it comes to marketing or sales. I can see how a science student has to wear certain clothes for safety reasons but, it seams to me the faculty of the COB are just dictating the style of attire they would like to see their students wear. I wear tennis shoes and shorts everyday at work and do quite well. COB students will have plenty of time to dawn the uniform of the corporate world if they choose to work there. It doesn't make any sense to me to be dressed up for class. Who are they gonna sell in class? "

Re: COB student wrote on Sep 3, 2007 8:58 AM:

" Sorry, your comment about walking to class in the heat made me laugh. Wake up! Smell the easy life! I didn't want to wear pantyhose & nail polish. 34 years later I'm still working in a non air conditioned job. 95 degrees would be great. Not complaining & my clothing suits my job-Hardhat, gloves, jumpsuit, steel toed shoes, & at times respirator, goggles, earplugs, & a TYVEK suit. I've never whined that I don't get to express uniqueness! If you TRULY want to work as a professional put the business outfit in your backpack, change from those casual cloth