Pantagraph.com | News | State test scores plunge at high school level

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

p.s. to the champion wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:29 AM:

" I forgot to mention that I work in a private school. Our teachers never get tenure, and we are not a part of Illinois' teacher retirement system. So don't worry. I'm not using any of your tax dollars, and my job and pay raises are not guaranteed. "

To the champion wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:26 AM:

" Have you ever taught one day in your life? I doubt it. You have no idea how much time it takes to be a good teacher. I am no disorganized. I do change my lesson plans each year to incorporate best teaching practices and to fit the needs of the particular students I have at the moment. Plus, as an English teacher who teaches writing, I have much more to grade each night than those who teach other subject areas. And by the way, I do love my job. I'm not complaining about the hours I work; I just want you to be informed so you can stop making comments about something which you clearly know nothing about. "

High School Student wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:15 PM:

" Much of the problem lies within the students, I believe. Being a student myself, I often times see and hear about students with negative attitudes about going to school and even learning in general. Until the attitudes of these students are changed, a change in the schools' results can not possibly be expected. So, in turn, I believe more emphasis should be placed on how important these primary years of education are, as they will ultimately affect the rest of our lives. "

Back to the champion wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:58 PM:

" To be a good teacher, in my opinion, it is not possible to get everything done that is needed in our workday if I ONLY work 8 hours per day. I work every minute (other than my lunch and homeroom periods) that I am there. I am also extremely, if not obsessively, organized. However, I still work at home on creating more effective lesson plans, grading what didn't get done at school, contacting parents, working on the class I am taking, collaborating with other teachers, etc. I easily work at LEAST 10 hours per day. Add 2 kids of my own with their homework (and the help my husband and I give them) and my day is over. The thing is....I love it. I'm not complaining. But the baggage from NCLB is casting a long, dark shadow over the teachers in the state of Illinois. Right now, we're easy targets. What the public is not aware of is that EVERY junior, even those with disabilities of ANY kind, also take the test. The SAME test. The results are not completely or accurately portrayed. "

To the teacher who gripes wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:03 PM:

" I work a supposedly 40hr a week job and sorry to say I am on call 24/7. Try that 12 months a year. I sat on a school board for 8 plus years and by the end of my second term I couldn't wait till the last board meeting. You teachers are nothing but a bunch of whiners for what you receive in pay and retirement. Unions should go, period! It's time the taxpayers get their money's worth out of you. Don't like it then find another job. The problem is folks they won't because many of them after getting tenure have it made as sit on their laurels. I'd fire them all, administrators too. "

to: TO the champion wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:03 PM:

" If you are working 80 hours a week then you are not working very smart or efficient. Plenty of good teacher can do a good job putting in 45 hours per week. I get concerned if it takes you 80 hours to do a 40-45 hour weekly job. I would say you need to learn to be more organized. "

Teachers, Parents, Personal Responsibilit wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:47 PM:

" Wow, its interesting to see the so called pundits blame the Democrats, teachers, unions, etc. Maybe more responsibility should be put on the students themselves and the parents, versus the teachers. When I got a B in a class, my parents didn't blame the failed school system, they said I didn't assert myself enough. I have 3 kids in Unit 5, one with a learning disability. Do we let him off the hook for that? heck no, he just has to work harder than the others to keep up. Do I blame the teachers? Heck no. If there is one job that should be overpaid in this country, its our educators, to try and attract and retain talent. Our kids are involved in activities every day of the week but one. But if they don't do their homework or fall behind, that's the first thing they lose. Its an easy concept to follow "

NO expectation wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:45 PM:

" I think the schools are dumbing down as parents have no expectation that school should be work for their kids. They look at it as a fun time with no bearing on the future of the kids. Sports is #1. Teachers are worn out dealing with undiscplined kids that don't want to try. One or two problem kids screws the whole class, but teachers have few options to regain control of the classroom. More and more Kids do as they please, say what they want, are disrespectful of authoriity and classmates and do not do a good job on homework. It takes very few to drag down the system. As parents we do not demand or support our schools getting tough, so what do we think the result will be. "

to the champion wrote on Oct 31, 2007 4:42 PM:

" you have alll of the answers apparently. Instaed of sitting in the cheap seats step up and get you administrative certificate or teaching certificate and do something about it. You might find things a little more of a challenge. Instead, you should stay where you are at and criticize and offer illegal or failed suggestions. Yes, that is much easier especially when you are not accountable for them. "

Big Brother wrote on Oct 31, 2007 4:21 PM:

" The "no child left behind" program is exposing the sub-standard educators in Illinois school systems. None of these sub-standard teachers are being held accountable for the 40% drop out rate in Chicago Public School Systems. High school freshmen that read at a 5th grade level. Close to the worst math scores in the 50 states. Soaring costs to pay bloated teacher salaries. The educators in Illinois are failing. The IEA protects sub-standard teachers even demanding yearly pay and benifit increases. Every community in Illinois is faced with exorbantly rising real estate taxes to pay for this failure. Untill the IEA and the school districts come clean and rid the classrooms of these sub-standard teachers the problems will continue. Its no wonder that many parents are turning away from public schools, opting to send thier children to private schools or homeschooling. Its time the schools got back to basics and educated ALL the children of Illinois. "

TO the champion wrote on Oct 31, 2007 3:12 PM:

" When teachers say they work extra hours at home, they are not referring to attending sporting events. Teachers must do lesson plans, grade papers, etc. every night and weekend. I'm a teacher, and I easily work 80 hours a week, both in and out of the classroom. That averages to more than 50 hours per week if you spread it out over a calendar year. Oh, and those 80 hours don't include the full-time teaching institute I help run for a month each summer, or the time I spend attending and presenting at conferences, or the time I spend writing professional teaching articles...shall I go on? "

another high school teacher wrote on Oct 31, 2007 2:08 PM:

" right on dwarf!!!! We've been seeing this at the high school for at least four years. When will the highers up realize the middle school concept does NOT work. Frustrated "

DownTown Dru wrote on Oct 31, 2007 12:21 PM:

" I think political correctness has hidden the fact that all of us do not enter the world with the same plannetary toolkit. IQs are well documented to distribute normally on a bell curve. Parents like to blame others when little Johnny is a C student... rather than admit their child is a dunce and instead alter their approach to that which makes the most sense for his future survival and parental independence. That may mean vocational school or skipping college altogether. As a society we should not waste time teaching to the middle, the average. You handicap the success of the right side of the curve, and frustrate those on the left side of the curve. "

To Someone: wrote on Oct 31, 2007 12:20 PM:

" Wow, I hope your just joking, that's messed up for even Pantagraph posts. "

Heat energy in water? wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:55 AM:

" Why would "A" be cool? We'd all explode. Sort of cool, but pretty short-lived. "

just plain stoopid wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:52 AM:

" I have a four year degree with 32 hours beyond that degree in education...plus I have a great number of other hours that cannot be counted toward a degree....all those hours were paid by my family or me...I have taught for over 30 years in the public education system...teachers usually take the blame for all the bad things that happen in education...yes there are bad teachers and yes the union is to blame for some of the ills...but let us put the blame at the feet of all those telling educators that they must change with the times..it is now a push for being analytical and public service education...students need to know things such as how to research problems and how to remember facts...read, read, ....we must be entertainers and motivate...just the idea of gaining knowledge should be enough to motivate "

Not everyone is a tri-athelete wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:13 AM:

" I didn't know what Adenosine Tri-Phosphate was until I got into 1st year college. Maybe the juniors should get AP credit. I wish the answer was "A", though. That'd be cool. "

in other news wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:57 AM:

" Stan O'Neal was fired from his position as Merrill Lynch CEO. For getting FIRED he'll receive a benefits and severance package that would "easily top $200 million". Teachers are the ones who get paid too much? If you want quality education, it will cost something. Teachers don't get paid all that much compared with other professionals with a similar level of degree and training (even if you consider the extra time off, which isn't really as much as you think because they spend a lot of their nights, weekends, and summer doing work for school anyway). I think we're getting a bargain. People just like to gripe because teacher's pay comes from their taxes. Yet, those same people pay lots of money to private companies where all the profits go to the top 1% of the company. It takes a really good teacher to actually get things accomplished in today's society and we're not going to have really good teachers by paying them less. "

It doesn't surprise me.. wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:31 AM:

" there's a grade level difference. Look at the questions - the 4th grade and 7th grade questions are logic based and the 11th grade question is knowledge based so they're comparing apples and oranges. Decide which you'd rather measure (knowledge vs. critical thinking) and design the tests for ALL grade levels to measure it. "

dwarf wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:09 AM:

" My fiancee was, until recently, a high school math teacher. Her finding was that basically the kids were coddled in middle school - not assigned much homework, and not held accountable for learning the material. By the time they hit her Algebra classes, they didn't have the background necessary even for remedial operations like multiplying by negative numbers, adding fractions, and so on. She needed to backtrack and teach many of her students fundamentals they should have learned over the past few years. Add to that the fact that high school students have more distractions than ever before, and that parents are getting more reluctant to hold their kids accountable for their academic performance, and it's a bad situation. "

Its..... wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:50 AM:

" very interesting that many people know how to solve this problem, yet do not have an idea of what goes on in the classroom. Want to make a difference with your child? Get involved!!!!!! The number one factor in how well a child does in school is how much the parents are involved. As a teacher, it is very easy to pick out the students who receive good support at home. That carries over to the classroom. Help us help your child by getting involved at home. Learning does not stop with the bell at 3:05. It continues at home with you. We can make a difference when we all work together. "

to the real reason educators hate No Child Left Behind wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:39 AM:

" No, the real reason they hate NCLB is because it forces them to teach to a test. "

to Who Was the Brain wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:38 AM:

" I'm a public school graduate. I stayed up half the night before my ACTs. Still got a 31 with a 36 in reasoning. Its easy. The kids are just dumb. "

to ONLY IN AMERICA- wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:37 AM:

" Wow, guess the fearmongering worked. The number of teachers accused of inappropriate sexual behavior is less than 1/10th of one percent. A kid is more likely to be abused by his parents or clergy. "

to Kent Dorfman wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:35 AM:

" Actually, you're right, but for the wrong reasons. Property taxes are high in the Chicago area and McLean County, so there is money for schools. Property taxes are low down south, so there's no money for schools. Chicago isn't "stealing" the money since the State doesn't provide any to begin with. "

the real reason educators hate No Child Left Behind wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:38 AM:

" It's stories like this one that drive home the real reason why so many educators are against No Child Left Behind- it shines a light on their failed system. Leave the educators alone to operate in the dark, and our taxes and funding for education would continue to skyrocket without a clue on our part as to the effectiveness of schools and teachers. "

someone....... wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:08 AM:

" tried uniforms on the youth and it wrked; I think it was Hitler "

Brenstalka wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:58 AM:

" Them their kids need to get there learning better. We ain't getting no better and if they dont get they're grades good, our sosiaty is gonna go down the tiolet. "

Duh! wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:54 AM:

" Problem would be teachers unions! "

Kent Dorfman wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:50 AM:

" Is there a possibility that one of the reasons the southern 1/3rd of the state has such a gap is because all the money for education is in the northern 1/3rd, specifically Chicago? If you're going to teach and put up with all the "garbage" that goes with it - and you end up being a good one - you're going to go to the district that has the most money, right? I would. Just a thought or two... "

ONLY IN AMERICA- wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:34 AM:

" Should this supprise anyone ? For years all we hear is teachers and schools need more money so what happens? Taxes go up and the quality of school goes down. Today all teachers are to worried about sex and when their next day off is. Just read the papers or watch tv and you'll find hundreds of cases where teachers have been arrested for sexual misconduct. Who grades teachers? Most think they know everything and some are even called Doctors. Dr. Alan Chapman is just one example of how they look at themselves as smarter than the average human being because they have a piece of paper that say's so. Liberal teaching and liberal leftist democratic views are making students dumber not smarter but that's OK throw some money on the problem that will fix everything. THE DUMBING OF AMERICA- THANK A TEACHER !!! "

Who Was the Brain wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:08 AM:

" that decided to test these kids the day after the ACT? By the end of the ACT day my brain was fried. I would have NO interest in doing an achievement test the very next day. Let's see, ACT got me into college, achievement test did what for me?? "

discipline wrote on Oct 31, 2007 6:54 AM:

" The active role starts with the parents or guardians. Take away the video games until they get their homework done and show you they've done a good job in school. Same with tv, text messaging, and the computer. "

thechampion.org wrote on Oct 31, 2007 6:18 AM:

" For these results you have to admit a teacher is overpaid for working 1400 hours a year, which is part time by any annual standard. Many do work extra hours, but who doesn't. Everyone works extra hours. I would hardly call going to a high school basketball or football game working.....cause guess what...lots of parents are at these games too NOT getting paid either. The unions or at the core of what is wrong with our school budget, but the school boards and all the lawyers need to figure out how to make school a more disciplined learning environment to be benefit both students and teachers. Starting with school uniforms. "

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