Pantagraph.com | News | Unit 5 to consider referendum question

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

no more wrote on Dec 11, 2007 5:53 AM:

" NO MORE TAXES!!!! WE PAY TO MUCH ALREADY!!! "

Unit 5 Spouse wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:59 PM:

" To Mr. thechampion.org - I am sick of the arrogant whiners complaining about over paid teachers. You people have no problem paying a sitter $5.00 per hour to watch your children so you can go out and do whatever it is that you do. I'll tell you what, you give that same rate to my wife per kid. So that would be $5.00 per hour per kid (average class size of 25) times 5 teaching periods per day times 180 days per school year comes out to $112,500.00 per year. By the way, does your sitter teach your kid to read, write, do math, coach them, etc. Geez, I could could retire and be a stay at home dad with that kind of money. Last I checked, no active teacher in Unit 5 is anything near that amount. I think those of you need to get off your high horse, and consider the value that you are actually getting!! "

to: education fund wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:56 PM:

" Perhaps we have identified the problem.....it is the education fund. My taxes fund both the education fund and the building fund so I should be able to contest both. Just because state law says the education fund can't be used for building funds doesn't resolve the issue of my taxes funding both. State law needs to change on this point and property taxes in general...and nothing will happen if we vote yes. So keep voting no then change will be forced. "

stop the crazzies wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:27 AM:

" enough! No more taxes. We all need to live on what we have, we do. "

To MCB wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:59 PM:

" If you are refering to me on that day, its simple.... I posted from home before my morning coffee, shortly before having hall duty, then during my prep. All of which took me about 10 minutes to post. As for being late, I never said I was late by the contract. In most school districts require teachers to be there by 8 am. I have found that getting to school that late does not give me enough time to prepare for the day. So I usually arrive about 7:30. I arrived at about 7:45 which is late by my standards. Luckily I had some of my prep done the day before so I did not have as much to do. And I took about 5 minutes out of my prep to answer you before going to the study halls to pull kids out to tutor. That day, I helped 10 kids improve their grade, and 3 actually raised their grade above an F in several classes. What did you do worthwhile that day? Enjoy the rest of the weekend. "

Sam wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:18 PM:

" To "Manufacture need for new buildings"... you are absolutely right! Parents need to realize that the Unit 5 administration will show only what they want to show you and change their emphasis to present their desire for more money. If they had done their homework, we wouldn't even be considering this referendum. "

Manufacture Need for New Buildings wrote on Dec 9, 2007 3:13 PM:

" Parkside has 950 students in a 750 student building today because the District manipulated the need for Normal Community to have a brand new building by moving the 6th graders up into the Junior High to pass their last building referendum - oh, and by the way, we need $6 million for pools at the high school too. And oh, by the way, since we lowered the "ideal" classroom size to manufacture a number representing crowding over our target classroom size, we now need more grade school classrooms. And, oh by the way, we extended the our kindergarten to all day daycare so we need more classrooms. The current overcrowding is partially a result of poor business strategies by the Administration. They should not be rewarded for it. Vote NO. "

YNM wrote on Dec 9, 2007 10:28 AM:

" You're right about your tax bill. But if you don't like the way schools are financed or what they can spend their money on, you might start by talking to your state rep and senator since it's about state law and not the teacher's unions. "

Taxes wrote on Dec 9, 2007 6:58 AM:

" Taxes are forever they never go away. What about retired fixed income people? VOTE NO "

MCB wrote on Dec 9, 2007 5:15 AM:

" RE: To "To MCB" wrote on Dec 5, 2007 10:50 AM:...........Dec 5th was a school day!! How did you find time to post 3 comments in one morning while you and your overworked/underappreciated coworkers were sucking up tax funded salaries?? And you were late too!!! Did they dock your pay for that?? You will notice that I have not posted a response for a few days. That is because real jobs don't allow for "internet fun time" on the company dollar. You should be ashamed of yourself!! "

Josh wrote on Dec 8, 2007 6:28 PM:

" to "This is a problem", they most definitely need more space. Why don't you give examples of what you say-"Also does not do a good job of teaching values to children. They don't really appear to teach much of anything else either. Until they start providing more then just warehousing for children they do not really need a dollar more."? I'm curious what you mean by these statements. Do you have kids in Unit 5? Do you know someone that does? Can you give a specific example to back up your ideas? To Caught Between, I hope you read YMN and To Caught In Between blogs-care to respond? My guess is your just a grumpy guy who like to complain. "

To Cuaght in between wrote on Dec 8, 2007 3:08 PM:

" If you do not like the tax situation in Bloomington, move. If you do not understand the taxing system, do not talk about it. When did you become a CPA? When someone buys a new house, the property tax money does not show up, instantly, through direct deposit to Unit 5. When was the last time there was a tax increase? Was it last year,no. Was it the year before that, no. Unit 5 has made massive cuts, are understaffed, and overcrowded. PJHS has 950 students in a building that is supposed to hold 750. Some teachers do not have a place to work during their planning time. Imagine if you did not have your cubicle for part of your day, but were still responsible for all your work. If you can not pony up $250 dollars to improve the school district, WHICH ALSO HELPS YOUR PROPERTY VALUE, then move. People move here for jobs and good schools. Move to Peoria, Springfield, Decatur, or Champaign and you will see bad school districts. Or go to your nearest school to get an education because it didn't seem to work the first time. "

the two biggest jokes in town wrote on Dec 8, 2007 10:23 AM:

" Sell Heartland and the Colliseum? who would buy them? Neither one is profitable or properly managed. Both are trying to artificiality inflate costs with a "living wage or union wage" requirement. There is a reason it is called minimum wage. They should not be allowed to overrule to federal government or the state of Illinois. This artificial inflation of costs is being recognized by the younger people graduating high school and college finally. They know that a Union is counterproductive the union pulls them down to keep those that would otherwise be canned due to lack of performance at often a higher pay rate. Let people work for what they are willing to work for it will keep the costs down and people will preform better because they know there is nothing keeping them from being replaced if they screw up. "

this is the problem wrote on Dec 8, 2007 10:11 AM:

" There are too many kids in too small a place. They do probably need more space however I do not trust unit5 to build quality schools where they are needed. Unit5 Also does not do a good job of teaching values to children. They don't really appear to teach much of anything else either. Until they start providing more then just warehousing for children they do not really need a dollar more. Costs are out of control there is way too much overhead. I would say the teachers probably need more money after all they have to deal with all the brats. There was a joke that kids told in the late 90's that teachers probably smoked crack to relax because it was so obvious that the students were driving them up the wall. But why not cut the overhead and teachers salaries. Then we can really use the "schools" as warehouses as intended. Treat the children like mushrooms for 12 years and see what kind of work force you end up with. "

to YNM wrote on Dec 7, 2007 10:27 PM:

" My real estate tax bill does not break out the education fund versus the building fund so I think it all should be on the table. Why isn't it? The union? "

YNM wrote on Dec 7, 2007 4:19 PM:

" Spend the money right? You see, they are. They CAN'T spend Ed Fund dollars on building projects. Asking for more money every year? Really? When was the last time they went to the public? 2000. How long did they say the projections would get them through? 10 years. What year will new buildings be completed should it pass? 2010. Those seem like accurate projections to me. That, coupled with the significant cuts they made about 4-5 years ago tells me the District has made efforts to reduce spending. The reality is, there's a growth/space issue. Period. You aren't voting on whether or not that's reality. You are voting on whether you will allow the District to have the money it needs to address the issue proactively and prudently. And by the way, it has nothing to do with teacher salaries. "

Caught between wrote on Dec 6, 2007 12:35 PM:

" living in Bloomington and having to face whatever tax increases Bloomington will impose to bail out that albatross downtown, and having kids who go to Unit 5 schools. I'm going to vote No. I agree with other respondents who've said that more houses and families means more taxes coming in. Spend the money the right way, Unit 5, and you won't have to ask for massive tax increases every da** year! "

AbsolutelyNot wrote on Dec 6, 2007 11:46 AM:

" I will not vote in favor of the continued trend of highway robbery through property tax increases. Sell Heartland and the Colliseum and then we'll talk. "

More and more kids wrote on Dec 6, 2007 11:02 AM:

" Thanks for the intelligent reply. Does anyone know if there is excess building capacity in district 87? Would a merger stop school construction? I know it could eliminate some overhead and reduce salary expense. Still can't put 10 pounds of sand in a 5 pound bag. "

To: 12 months or 9 months wrote on Dec 5, 2007 9:46 PM:

" You just sound like a really unhappy, mean person. Go and pick on somebody else. You are probably the type of person who treats servers at restaurants poorly. Leave the teachers alone. You have made your point. Find someone else to take your anger out on. "

12 months or 9 months wrote on Dec 5, 2007 9:14 PM:

" I have never once complained about my salary on this, or any other, post. I only feel the need to defend myself as it is very easy for those on the other end of their computer to criticize what I, and my colleagues, do. I am aware that I make a very good salary. I am very happy with my salary. I also have worked hard to improve my salary. There are people I work with that don't. But...I am not the one who brought the salary issue into the referendum post. The champion.org poster did that and continues to do that. Teacher salary really isn't even the issue at hand...whether or not to support the referendum is the issue. Yet, somehow, we're back to talking about teachers, mediocre results, working 8,9 or 12 months, parent support or lack of parent support, homeschooling, how many hours a day teachers work, leaving at 4pm, dumbing down special education, teaching to the middle, merging, yada, yada, yada. "

to: 12 mos or 9mos wrote on Dec 5, 2007 7:06 PM:

" You have made my case. Your dates show you don't work 9 months, then you factor in days off and you are at 8 month. Still concerned about your math. And again the issue is NOT spreading your salary over 12 months, the issue is that you are being paid quite well for only working 8 months out of the year which is part time for a whole year. The other issue is that teachers expect and demand to be paid a 12 month salary when they only work 8 months out of the year. I would say thechampion.org pretty much lets the cat out of the bag on all the teachers and their whining about their salaries. "

Vote No!!!!!! wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:56 PM:

" Lets show Judy and John where we stand. We must stand together against Unit 5. Do whatever it takes to vote against this. Let John and Judy take the blame when this fails. Stand strong and united against Unit 5. VOTE NO!!!!!!!! "

To CPA part 2 wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:39 PM:

" Why should an elementary teacher make less? I teach middle school and I can tell you that there is no way I could do what they do. They have just as much training as any other teacher and are responsible for just as much. They really become "second parents" to your child. At that age, children are extremely dependent on you for their every need. Your child actually spends more waking hours with their teacher than you do during the school year. If you are a working parent you only have about 3 to 4 hours before your child goes to bed. That elementary teacher spends a minimum of 6 hours a day with your child. That is where your child learns to read, write, and even the simple task of tying their shoes. Walk into an elementary classroom on any given day and you will see what is involved. I know I am amazed every time I venture down to that side of the building. And to think they do that for 20 to 25 kids. It is truely amazing the skill that is needed. "

Back to the CPA wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:35 PM:

" Quite frankly, teachers really aren't complaining about their salary...we are merely defending what everyone ELSE is criticizing. The champion.org brought teachers into this conversation DAYS ago. Until then, no one had criticized what we made, what we did, etc. The conversation revolved around the actual article. However, since teachers were brought into the conversation and since most people have since started bashing teachers in general, I think we would be remiss to NOT defend what we do. I haven't heard ONE teacher say that we should make more money. We're not asking for more money. But how about someone tell you all of the time that your job is worthless and that meaningless and that it only requires a basic education and let's see how you feel. Are you saying that no one in your profession did the bare minimum to make it through college? I think that's probably pretty standard. "

To CPA wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:29 PM:

" Your figures are about right in line with most school districts in area. I started out making about 23,000 13 years ago. With earning my Master's Degree and 13 years of experience, I am at about 45,000 with some extra duty pay. I am in a small, rural school district, so the pay will not compare to those in Unit 5 and district 87. And if you really look at their pay scale, they are not too much higher than my school district. As for going to an hourly rate, if you really added up the hours that a teacher works, at school and at home(some have families and kids so they may not start on their "homework" until after the kids are settled) you might just find that we do not make as much as you would think. Please do not just go by what you see at school. You have to admit you really do not see everything that the teacher does. If you do, you either followed a teacher teacher around for a week, or have one in the household. "

12 months or 9 months wrote on Dec 5, 2007 4:52 PM:

" That is the question. I do not get paid for a year's worth of work. I don't work an entire year. However, because of how my paychecks are split, I am able to receive my paycheck during the summer months when I am not in school. Instead of the 18 checks I would receive during the school year (August - June), I have my salary split into 24 paychecks. Therefore, I am making the same amount of money either way. My checks are just less than they would be if I was only paid for the actual months I was physically in the building. And by the way, if I only worked 8 months out of the year, I would be walking out the door in April. August 24-May 31. That's pretty close to 9 months in my book. "

to: The champion.org wrote on Dec 5, 2007 4:47 PM:

" This website does NOT say it all. It does not, in fact, say how that pay was earned, whether it includes coaching, summer school, covering classes, moving across the pay scale due to extra classes taken, etc. This "salary" is so much more than just my contracted salary. It includes EVERYTHING I get paid for during the course of that particular school year. Also, in order to work a 10-hour day AT SCHOOL and still leave by 4:00 as you stated, I would have to arrive at 6:00. Now, if I leave at 4:00 and work for 3-4 hours at home, doesn't that count? Fortunately for me, I KNOW my parents are aware of just how very hard I work and do not need you, nor anyone else here, questioning my work ethic. What do you do, by the way? "

Hopedale-ite wrote on Dec 5, 2007 4:38 PM:

" boy, this has a ring a familiarity "

to: to CPA wrote on Dec 5, 2007 4:25 PM:

" What do teachers deserve to get paid? I would say $5000 a month or $40,000 for working 8 months out of the year is way too much for elementary school teachers, but it would be more than exceptable. $4000 per month or $32,000 for 8 months would be more in line as that annualizes to $48,000 annual salary. To say an elementary school teacher deserves $5000 per month is like saying they are worth a $60,000 annual salary....and that simply is ridiculous. Perhaps after 15-20 years of service it may be reasonable. Is that enough specifics for you? Starting salaries for many professional jobs are $35-$40K. So teachers shoud start out at around $26,000 but that would depend on the subject and grade level. THe education requirement for most professional jobs is much tougher than an education degree. We all know the level of competency required to attain an education degree as it is evidence by the people we all went to high school and college with who are now teachers. Many can't even balance their checkbook. "

to: to CPA wrote on Dec 5, 2007 4:20 PM:

" I am concerned about the math skills of our teachers as well. Nobody thinks it is a problem to spread out their payments over 12 month. This issue is that teachers actually think what they make for 8 months of work should equal what others are being paid for 11 1/2 months of work. For working 8 months you make great money for those 8 months. If you need more money then you should get a job in the summer, like teachers always used to do. Or teachers were primarily women so they were happy with a part time job that allowed them to have summers off. Now teachers demand to make as much as someone who works 3-4 months more than them. "

to: to CPA wrote on Dec 5, 2007 4:00 PM:

" Back to math basics here. Amazing. Noone has a problem with teachers spreading out their 180 day salary over a 365 day period. The problem is that teachers complain about their salary for working 8 months out the year....teachers want pay increases that is more in line with actually working 12 months out of the year. Teachers complain about their salary, but for only working 8 months out of the year is quite hefty on an hourly basis. In fact, on an hourly basis teachers are over paid. For 12 months teachers may not be overpaid, but they aren't working 12 months. So the salary is justified for only working 8 months....stop demanding more money equivalent to working 12 months. Perhaps you need a part time job in the summer. "

thechampion.org wrote on Dec 5, 2007 12:49 PM:

" This website really says it all and it is public knowledge. Check out your child's teacher and see what they are being paid and the increases over the last few years. Make sure you double the salary because teachers work 185 days a year. Check out the parking lots around 4:00 p.m. at your school. How many teacher's cars are there putting in those 10 hour days. "

thechampion.org wrote on Dec 5, 2007 12:33 PM:

To CPA wrote on Dec 5, 2007 11:58 AM:

" As it was stated in another response from another person, we do not get paid for 12 months of work. We are paid for 180 days of work. That pay is only spread out over 12 months. That means that the district witholds a little bit of each money each pay period so that we can still get a check twice a month during the summer. I had a choice of getting 18 paychecks, or 24 paychecks. I would end up making the same amount at the end of the year. I do not need to teach Math to understand that concept. We are contracted employees under contract to work 180 day. Does it really make a difference how we get that pay? And you still have yet to answer what a fair compensation would be. Based on the work we do? I am puzzled on that one. Please give a rate of pay, or salary. Numbers speak volumes. "

to: to to nonteacher wrote on Dec 5, 2007 11:29 AM:

" My opinion is based on being a parent and having gone to school for 18 years and seeing how teachers work. My opinion is based on the fact that I have to train your students after the schools have failed them. What should teachers be paid? They should be paid based on the work they do. It is an 8 month job and they should not be paid for doing 12 months of work. You work 8 months, you get paid 8 months. Hope you aren't teaching math, as I am a CPA. "

to: to nonteacher wrote on Dec 5, 2007 10:54 AM:

" So what would be fair compensation for a teacher? Do you have a teaching degree? How do you know how easy it is? How do you know how easy it is to teach elementary? Have you done it? What are you basing your opinion on? "

To "To MCB" wrote on Dec 5, 2007 10:50 AM:

" I am sorry about the grammar and the mistakes. Sometimes we are as guilty of not proof reading as our students. One response was written before the morning coffee, the other was written very quickly have getting to school late due to the roads. The country roads are in much worse shape than the roads in town. I have been a Science teacher for 13 years in both large, inner-city schools and rural schools. Any other questions? This is my prep period, and I will soon be going to get students to tutor. I will be glad to answer any questions as time allows. You know what I do. But we still do not know what you do. And thank you for the attack. "

to: bad teacher no pension wrote on Dec 5, 2007 10:27 AM:

" Absolutely correct. The parents are the indicator of students success. Teachers want to blame parents for bad results but not give parents credit for their successes. It proves that teaching is not rocket science if it is done in a disciplined, structured environment. Thus that is why the degree is extremely easy to get. The job itself is much harder than the degree and even that is not difficult in the elementary levels....which again is why it is called "elementary". So give the parents the break and stop raising their taxes. Proof has been seen that homeschoolers test just as well. I don't like homeschooling because kids lack the social learning environment, but teachers can't be taking credit for the environment...oh I guess that can take credit just like they take credit for the good students (but not the bad ones). WAKE UP? Visit thechampion.org "

to: to nonteacher wrote on Dec 5, 2007 10:23 AM:

" Get your facts straight. In other countries teachers are the only ones with degrees so they are paid more. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, teachers are not the only educated group (although they would like to think so). Again, this is the USA and you work for a non-profit group like the government and only work 8 months out of the year, you should not expect to be compensated like someone venturing out in the private sector taking on all the risks, and actually being evaluated on their job every year. And yet still with your 8 month salary you make more than most people in the USA. Difference though, my tax dollars pay for it. Typical. "

To "To MCB" wrote on Dec 5, 2007 8:59 AM:

" To the "teacher" who writes that he/she has been teaching for 13 years and has a Master's Degree "not in administration" (??).... If you are the caliber of teacher that is working in Unit 5, we have major problems. You can't form a complete sentence, and your grammar and spelling are worse than my 5th grader. Do you care to share what subject you claim to teach?? Maybe you are a gym teacher, but even if that is your subject, you cannot possibly have made it through a legitamate Master's program with your "skills." I am not convinced that you are the real deal. "

To MCB wrote on Dec 5, 2007 8:13 AM:

" As for the poor attitude. I have a great attitude towards my job and my students. If it weren't for the students I would have left the job long ago. I just refuse to be the "good little teacher" and take it while people degrade what I do. Yes, I am a proud teacher!!!! Are you proud of what you do? Do you brag about your fellow employees when they have done something good as I do when my students achieve something great? "

Unit 5 parent wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:40 AM:

" VOTE YES We live in an expensive society. We pay WAY too much for gas, yet we still drive. We pay WAY too much for coffee, pop, alcohol, etc, yet we still buy it. Increasing our taxes might mean we have to cut back on some of our "extras' but to me it is well worth it. I have 2 kids in Unit 5 right now but I will not ony be thinking of them when I vote yes. I will be thinking of all the other kids in Unit 5 it will benefit. One day these kids will grow up and need to support themselves. A good education gives them a better chance. THINK OF THE CHILDREN AND VOTE YES. "

To MCB wrote on Dec 5, 2007 6:39 AM:

" Actually, I have been teaching for 13 years and am very proud of what I do. As for the friends and family at SF, most have very good careers and make a good chunck of change. My Masters degree is not in Admin, and only helps me become a better teacher. I do just fine with my pay. I will never be rich, though I am not poor. And I am fairly certain that most teachers feel the same way. My pay is not a sore subject, just the definite lack of respect from those that do not know the job. Time management? I find it hard to believe that you have family who are teachers with a comment like that. If so, feel free to come into my classroom and tell me how I can better utilize my time. With every complaining about how teachers make, no one has yet to say what a fair salary would be for a teacher. What should they start out making? What should they make near retirement? Should we get paid hourly? "

Put up or shut up wrote on Dec 5, 2007 1:43 AM:

" All of you people who say "teachers do nothing" and "it's an easy job" go spend a day in a classroom. Teachers just don't have to teach. Last year my daughter's teacher was physically harmed by one of her students on an almost daily basis. He would kick, punch and head butt anyone, including her. When she finally got him out of class, another one came right along. I would like to see any of you try to do your job when someone is being loud and agressive with you for 8 hours a day. Yes, it is bad parenting, but in a classroom it doesn't matter. And for those of you who say "I would kick that kid out" well, it's a public school. The child has to be educated. And thanks to no child left behind, if this child doesn't learn, takes the tests and fails, it reflects poorly on the school. You couldn't pay me to be a teacher. And if you all think it is so easy and they get paid so well then why aren't you a teacher? "

MCB wrote on Dec 4, 2007 11:28 PM:

" RE: To MCB......I think that the corporate world is a perfect comparison. Your friends/family that work at SF and only sit in a cubicle playing on the internet most likely won't have much of a career. It sounds to me like with your attitude you won't either. Teachers that have to put in 50-60 hours per week obviously are not very good with time management. I have not heard very many teachers owning up to the fact that they chose to be a teacher.........why has it only now become a sore spot.....you were well aware that you wouldn't get rich teaching. By the way.....it doesn't seem like you are there for the benefit of the kids if you constantly complain about long hours and low pay. If you didn't at least somewhat agree with the rest of the working world, you wouldn't find a need to defend your pay!! "

To: Playing The Political Game wrote on Dec 4, 2007 11:28 PM:

" You are an extremely disrespectful person, as are most posters on this thread who are obviously sitting at home during the work day, retired or unemployed, with nothing else to do. It's amazing how vicious and hysterical people get when they don't have to identify themselves, and how proudly uninformed they can be. For perspective, as long as you are insulting working professional men and women with college degrees who are trying to educate this community's youth, please reveal your education level and the job you either held for most of your adult life or recently lost so we can judge both. Let the lies roll in. "

Playing the Political Game wrote on Dec 4, 2007 9:05 PM:

" The only teachers putting in that many hours are the ones working their way up the political ladder, sucking up to the administration. As soon as they get tenure based on time not qualifications or teaching ability, they drop all their extracurriculars that they no longer need to do. We need tenure based on results, not on political cronyism and incompetence. "

Bad Teacher, No Pension wrote on Dec 4, 2007 9:02 PM:

" Amen! The success of the student is 90% dependent upon the parents. Many students will succeed in spite of the horrible teachers, not because of them. Yet there are many arrogant teachers who only want to claim the successes of the students who already came to them successful. They don't want to accept the blame for the continuing mediocrity at the lower levels. You can't have it both ways. I have found more teachers in Unit Five who destroy above average students than those who bring a lower education student up to the normal level. Smart students are used to grade share to bring up the entire level of the class to make bad teachers look good. "

to: Overpaid teachers wrote on Dec 4, 2007 8:54 PM:

" I am not a new teacher and I definitely do teach more than 40 hours per week. I have "down" what I want to do, but since I don't teach the same tired old lessons year in and year out, I create new materials that I can use that are more appropriate, meet the needs of my individual students and are more relevant than they were last year. I also work nights and weekends to just stay ahead of the game. This year, there has not been ONE night that I haven't brought SOMETHING home to work on. I'm not a coach either. Finally, you are paying me for a 9-month job. I just happen to have that salary divided in such a way I receive checks over the course of a 12-month period. "

overpaid teachers - thechampion.org wrote on Dec 4, 2007 5:24 PM:

" Many bloggers say teachers work 50-60 hours a week. No way..I don't believe...I don't see it as a parent...and I never saw it as a student. Why are there so many high school coaches dedicating so much time to their sports? It is because the have the time and the actual "teaching" only requires the 40 hours per week. If you are working more than 40 hours then you must be new. After a couple years these teachers have it all worked out and they aren't working all this extra time. My best teacher was one without a degree in 5 th grade. My other best teacher was one that made it look easy....because he was good. If you are good it shouldn't be that tough....unless the parents are difficult. In which case, what are we paying a 12 month salary for to an 8 month employee if all the results are dependant on the parents. How bout we give parents a tax break since they are the reason for good results. "

To: More and more kids wrote on Dec 4, 2007 3:08 PM:

" You can go to www.greatschools.com to compare the ACT scores, ISATs, etc of schools. You'll find that district 87 and unit 5 are the same in student/teacher ratio at the district level, both at 16 per FTE. Unit 5 averaged 22 on the ACT in 2006 while District 87 averaged 20 on the ACT in 2006. But keep in mind that those who are taking the ACT have only been subject to the "No Child Left Behind" rules for a few years. So a better measure might be to look at ISAT scores for the younger kids. At grade 3, the first time ISATs are done, 87 scored 80% for reading and 93% for math. Unit 5 was very similar at 79% for reading and 93% for math. And the spending per pupil is higher at District 87 at $5,057 per student versus $4,628 per student at Unit 5. The districts are very comparable and some type of merger probably makes sense, particularly to keep some of those kids from southwest Bloomington from sitting on a bus for over an hour each way to and from school in Normal. "

Hey Knuckleheads wrote on Dec 4, 2007 2:25 PM:

" 1) Unit 5 and District 87 have no connection with either city! If you live in an area served by that school district, that is where the big chunk of your property taxes go. 2) Apartment dwellers pay their taxes through their rent which then the landlord pays to the school districts. 3) At least Unit 5 has to offer the voters a referendum... Unlike the kindly educators at Heartland Comm. College who did everything in their power to stop the voters from halting their latest tax grab. 4) VOTE NO... Tell your friends and neighbors to vote NO... Put a sign in your yard that says NO. 5) Here is the scariest thing of all for the teachers unions YEAR ROUND SCHOOL "

More and more kids wrote on Dec 4, 2007 1:35 PM:

" In my son's school, the cafeteria tables cannot be put away. The closet once used for that is now used for instructional space. We live in south west Bloomington, not the fashionable east side. Questions for the better informed. If 87 and 5 merged, would that erase the need for more buildings? Is there excess capacity? Is there somewhere the public can compare ACT scores by high school? The last comparision I know of is several years old. 87 and 5 scores were even then. Until the state legislature alters the funding source, property tax payers will get the bill. "

I vote District 87 In wrote on Dec 4, 2007 11:47 AM:

" As a Unit Five parent, I would vote for a merger with District 87 in a split second on one condition - fire all Unit Five administration and retain all District 87. We could have a very strong, healthy educational system in the Twin Cities if that were to occur. But, it will never happen. The Unit Five propaganda machine is too strong and the Teacher's Union too entrenched in the corruption of the Unit Five Educational system of political cronyism for that to ever occur. "

Unit Five the Booby Prize wrote on Dec 4, 2007 11:35 AM:

" I would trade a couple of Unit Five's shiny new buildings in a heartbeat for a few of District 87's dedicated teachers and fiscally RESPONSIBLE administrators who run their district consisently in the black year after year, save up for building new buildings so they're not always asking taxpayers for more money, and have the balls to cut expenses, including staff, when necessary to keep a balanced budget. It's true that, in the beginning, Unit Five was seen as the "Prize". Now, we all know it's the BOOBY PRIZE! "

to : Josh wrote on Dec 4, 2007 7:03 AM:

" Josh, you are wrong. The merger was overwhelmingly voted against in unit 5 and generally supported in 87. Yes, district 87 decided their own fate years ago when they did not forsee all the future development that would take place. Seems to me that Unit 5 is maybe making the same mistake now. I am an 87 parent, and I would still vote for the merger if there were another referedum on the topic. 87 has some very old schools (Bent for example) that, in my opinion should be torn down and new buildings put in their place. There is work to be done in both districts and it is time we cooperate. "

Josh wrote on Dec 3, 2007 9:19 PM:

" Also, to MCB, I bet you work in the corporate world. Of course, you don't have to work weekends unpaid, and a lot of nights unpaid. That's right, you get to sit in a cubicle and search the internet all day. Best of luck to ya. "

Josh wrote on Dec 3, 2007 9:17 PM:

" To D87 Rocks, what planet are you from? I went to almost all of the meetings the last time, and I remember that there was a huge portion of D87 who refused even to consider a merger. I think you need to rethink your statements. Go ahead and thank D87 for being snobs, that's why it's landlocked now, the donut hole inside the donut. Think about it. Also, I wish you merger people would find the facts out about the different districts before you post. It would take more money to merge than it would to build more schools. "

To MCB: wrote on Dec 3, 2007 11:41 AM:

" Are you sure you want to bring in the corporate world in on this one?? And yes, I do have friends and family who work at SF in both degreed and non-degreed jobs. 2 things I have learned from both groups...1, they have way too much free time. 2, there is a high level of incompitence out there. Even look at the blogs where SF is brought up. So using the corp world may not be the best example for your arguement. Now if you want to look at the corp resturant management and work load, that would be different. You cannot plagiarize opinion. Not looking for butt kissing, just some respect. From these blogs, the communtity has very little of it. If not respect from parents, I would settle for the parents actually checking their child's HW, not just telling me they are. "

To Mr. thechampion.org wrote on Dec 3, 2007 7:38 AM:

" "Then become a professional athlete. It's a free country. You say you don't have the needed skill/talent? Oh, that just proves the point then, doesn't it? " Your arguement makes no sense. I was pointing out all that teachers have to contend with besides education and you you bring up free will and talent and that is your point? Hey, great arguement! And, just FYI, I went pretty far in college athletics. But who got me there? My coach, and who are 90% of coaches? TEACHERS!!! "

MCB wrote on Dec 3, 2007 5:55 AM:

" Not everyone is a teacher.....not everyone understands your daily struggles......blah...blah.....blah. I thought you were teachers!! I think some of you might need to start providing your sources because after reading all these posts that all sound the same, plagiarism comes to mind. Sure, the community appreciates what teachers do for the children, but you are not entitled to a careers-worth of butt kissing for doing what you are paid to do. Also, I do know what your job consists of because my mom was a teacher and so is my sister. Guess what.......they agree with me. You are just giving a bad name to the hard working teachers out there who are not looking for constant recognition. I suggest talking to a friend or family member that works in the corporate world.....they certainly don't get coddled at work. "

District 87 Rocks! wrote on Dec 2, 2007 4:52 PM:

" About 13 years ago, there was a lot of talk about combining District 87 and Unit 5 to help both groups. But the people who were part of Unit 5 didn't want anything to do with the lowly District 87. Well, as someone who now has 2 children in District 87, I say THANK YOU to the snobs of Unit 5 who kept that awful merger from happening!!! You've added that much more justification for my decision to buy a home inside of Bloomington, instead of in subdivision-land around Bloomington. "

Here's a thought wrote on Dec 2, 2007 3:08 PM:

" " This is for your precious little darling spoiled children - Right? Parents - step up - take the tax hike per child - you are the ones that caused the overcrowding - you should pay for EACH of them. I choose not to have children, and as a result, can afford to live in the pricey "east side" homes that you are so angry about (jealousy really) and shouldn't have to pay for your children to be coddled and babied - Millenials anyone? If you tax per child - we won't have much overcrowding in schools to worry about. Tax increase - Just say NO! Want to have another baby - Just say NO! " "

To: MCB wrote on Dec 2, 2007 1:17 PM:

" Teachers aren't complaining about their jobs...the public, those writing in this post, are complaining about teachers. Teachers are only defending themselves because it's what we have to do EVERYDAY. The only reason we are getting so fired up on here is because, again, someone decided that it is our fault that classrooms are crowded, schools don't have room and that we need new schools. From what I can gather on here, those that are complaining didn't like school, saw no need for school, probably barely got by in school and thought that teachers were stupid. You're probably the same parents that call the school to complain that someone isn't being fair to your child, that your child is failing and that the teacher doesn't like your child. What a cycle you have created for yourself. If people would spend more time instilling a sense of pride in what their own kids are doing and take an interest in their schooling, you may not have these issues. I must go make my lesson plans for the week now. Happy arguing. "

To MCB wrote on Dec 2, 2007 12:04 PM:

" It is true. If you look on blogs dealing with teachers, we are not treated fairly. And I do not believe there is a teacher out there who is compaining aobut the $30,000 a year to start. Honestly, that is great pay to start out. i do not teach in a district with a starting salary like that and had to work about 5 or 6 years to get that pay. What teachers are complaining about are the people who feel we do not earn our pay. Do you honestly know what is involved with the job? Most people do not. We do not just sit in front of the classroom and open a book. Our work load is just as heavy as anyone in upper level management. I know and love my job. I am not complaining about my job one bit. Don't pretend you know our job unless you want us to do the same to you. Can you justify how much you make? "

to "you teachers" wrote on Dec 2, 2007 10:24 AM:

" When you started your job did you have a work area? Or did they set up dividers in a common area like the cafeteria for you to work in? Were you given the necessities to do your job? Or do you have to make everything up on your own because your district doesn't have books and your budget for the year is $150. Maybe you’re the boss; if someone doesn't perform up to standards you can fire them? Or, are you a school district who can't fire the students they get that don't perform at standards, some due to a learning disability, or some due to a poor home life and poor parent support, just to name a few. If we “just do our jobs” and not more than our jobs, our kids don’t meet state standards and our kids don’t compete and then it’s the teachers fault not the parent’s or publics. This isn’t about a tax referendum for teacher success…it is about a tax referendum so that the students can succeed. "

yard signs wrote on Dec 2, 2007 9:10 AM:

" For those that was to show opposition or support for one or both tax increases you can get yard signs. The only catch is someone will need to design and order them. There are a number of sign shops that have web services where you can design and order signs some offer minimum order of as few as 10 signs. They should cost between 6 and 10 bucks depending on number of colors used in the design. For about $15 you can get a cafe press. They do even single runs and you can leave your "art Work" for others to order signs from. "

MCB wrote on Dec 2, 2007 6:20 AM:

" I am growing tired of teachers not feeling they they are being treated fairly. Guess what......not everyone who is not a teacher makes more than you......people who are not teachers also work more than 8 hours per day (but do it all year).......other professions require continued education. These are the complaints that teachers are posting here. It does not change the fact that you KNEW that your salary was not going to buy you a huge house right off the bat. $30k per year is above what the average college graduate makes at their first job. I remember there being 25-30 kids in my class during grade school, and I went to what is considered one of the best schools in the area. Sorry that the community wants you to do the job they are paying you for.....life is rough. "

Unit 5 Teacher wrote on Dec 1, 2007 11:19 PM:

" I am required to be at school 8 hours each day for 185 days. Each day is equivalent to a 6 hour meeting in a business environment. Imagine that you are in charge of the meeting, creating the visuals, making sure everyone is engaged, assessing their understanding of your presentation and insuring that you are meeting everyone's needs. Not possible during the 8 hour day so you must work nights. Want to work on aligning the curriculum and long term plans? Put in a weekend or two each month. Want to create a good environment with visuals on the wall, folders for student portfolios, copies to get you ahead etc.? Better come in during the summer before school starts. School is out - now what? Pack up your room for a day or two and sign up for a class required to keep your certification. I don't teach for the money, but I do appreciate being able to pay my bills with the career of my choice. It is annoying that some people think that educating children isn't worthy of that. "

summed up: wrote on Dec 1, 2007 3:22 PM:

" NO ! "

you teachers wrote on Dec 1, 2007 3:09 PM:

" just need to do the job you are being paid to do. Who else gets to run to the taxpayers to get an easier job: i.e.fewer students, new classrooms, etc. At least, you have a job. nobody else's is perfect & no one else gets to when they have to much to do "

Common Sense wrote on Nov 30, 2007 6:38 PM:

" 32 kids in a class? I don't care. Portable classrooms? I don't care. If you have kids in the schools then you should care and YOU should pay- they are, after all, your kids and your responsibility. I already "donate" $2200 a year to help pay the cost of your kids going to school- somehow, twisted logic makes me the bad guy for not wanting to pay even more. I'm not asking you parents to subsidize anything for me; just pay for your own kids and quit telling me I have to pay even more for them. "

TO NON-TEACHERS wrote on Nov 30, 2007 4:32 PM:

" Does everyone understand that teachers in other countries are some of the highest paid occupations in their respective country? This has an immediate effect. It helps the brightest college students choose thier profession in other countries: education. People wonder why America's education is slipping, theres not enough emphasis on the job itself. "

TO NON TEACHERS wrote on Nov 30, 2007 4:27 PM:

" Calling all Non-Teachers. Get a clue. Teachers start at 30,000 dollars for a reason, because we only work 8 months a year. If we worked 12 months a year we would have a starting salary more like a 12 month job, probably 35,000 to 40,000$. On an average, it takes a teacher 4 to 5 years to move up to 40,000 dollars on teh payscale through a masters program. Also, I can guarantee teachers work more than 8 months a year and work more overtime hours than anyone at SF, Country, and any other job here in town. The Non-Teachers on here are ignorant and uninformed (thechampion.org). "

YES wrote on Nov 30, 2007 8:09 AM:

" I'd donate 250-300 a year and my time to fight this ... I can't afford another 250 a year in taxes. "

Where Do I Sign Up? wrote on Nov 29, 2007 5:48 PM:

" Hey, I want a NO referendum sign too! Any available? Any organized opposition group that I can donate my time and money to to defeat Unit Five's arrogance and unchecked spending habits? "

Julie wrote on Nov 29, 2007 11:33 AM:

" Would someone please post where to pick up a "NO Referendum" sign? "

Follow Up wrote on Nov 29, 2007 1:01 AM:

" Last I checked, the students in the old classes that had 32 in a portable, SURPRISINGLY graduated and SURVIVED....gasp! Sorry Teachers' Union proponents, as far as I know, none are under the care of a psychiatrist, none have committed suicide....they appear to have survived just fine and probably received no less of a mediocre education from Unit Five than those sitting in brand new schools in class sizes of seventeen being fed the same sorry B.S. from the same arrogant and bloated Administration at Unit Five. "

To "Unit 5 scare tactics" wrote on Nov 28, 2007 10:19 PM:

" Thanks for posting you comments. It shows us that we should vote "yes" on the referendum. You bring up some good points to support this: "In a class of 32", "in a portable". Wow to me that shows that our classes are overcrowded and we have to move the overflow of children into a mobile home because of lack of room in the school! "

Josh wrote on Nov 28, 2007 7:45 PM:

" To all of you who say that teachers' only work 8 or 9 months, you obviously live in a fantasy world and don't know any teachers. The teachers I know work 12-15 hours a day, only 8 of which is paid and spend more hours Sat and Sun at their school.. They also work during the summer to get ready for the upcoming school year. Which means that they only take about 2 weeks off. I'd like to see all of you work an extra 4 hours a day for no pay and work extra hours unpaid over the weekends. "

Lucy wrote on Nov 28, 2007 7:16 PM:

" To: Unit 5 Scare Tactics: You really don't know what you are talking about. 30 kids in a classroom with an aide is waaaaay too many students even with a competent teacher and assistance.. Remember the aides don't do the teaching. The teacher is still responsible for the learning and everything else that is involved in day to day teaching. Just because a teacher has an aide doesn't necessarily mean she has someone who can help her teach. An aide usually does the "busy work" (bulletin boards, running off material, clerical duties, etc. to help alleviate the time consuming jobs. The teaching is STRICTLY left to the teacher as is the disciplining. "

Two vote no wrote on Nov 28, 2007 7:02 PM:

" Just in case a school administrator is working overtime reading this blog to gauge voter sentiment, add two no votes from our overtaxed household. A community leader last year estimated that at least $1 million a year could be saved in salaries if the districts would merge. Put that to the voters. "

Just a teacher wrote on Nov 28, 2007 5:33 PM:

" Letter today: Unit 5 enrollment up 25% in the past 6 years. Due to increase to almost 16,000 students in the next 7. Vote how you will, but schools are crowded. I'm in one everyday and can barely get through the halls, had to ask for extra desks for my room and can't even envision where we'll put next year's class of over 500 incoming freshmen. As for the champion.org...read their website. It TELLS YOU that this salary is what we are compensated for during the entire year. This includes: salary, coaching salary, teaching summer school, covering classes, pay for conferences, pay for speaking, etc. It is not the base salary. I am making more than people who have worked 5 years longer than I have because I have a master's degree, teach in the summer and attend and speak at conferences. My salary should be more. "

To Tom: wrote on Nov 28, 2007 1:45 PM:

" It sounds like you should have stayed in the business world. I would guess that if you interviewed teachers, over 85% of them go above and beyond for their students. The only time you hear about it is when they have to defend themselves to ill informed people. You must be one of those typical male teachers who show up, teach straight from the manual, and then head home. Way to inspire our future generation. Hope you are enjoying your free time!!!! "

Unit Five Scare Tactics wrote on Nov 28, 2007 1:12 PM:

" Gasp! Class sizes of THIRTY! Whatever WILL we do? You've bought the Unit Five lie of threatening classroom sizes to force a referendum. For those of us who've been around the block a few times with Unit Five and have been thrown under the bus by them, this is classic manipulation tactics. How did they create the false need for more schools on last referendum? By LOWERING their target classroom size. I've seen 32 children in a PORTABLE in Unit Five. With an aide and a competent teacher, that is manageable. Don't buy into the Unit Five BOOGEYMAN of class size as a scare tactic to squeeze more money out of you. "

Throwing Money Won't Fix the Problem wrote on Nov 28, 2007 1:08 PM:

" The problems of grossly inequality between schools in Unit Five WILL NEVER be addressed as long as you keep giving this Board more money to build new schools and create more "have" zones in the District at the expense of the "have not" zones. I'm surprised they even knew the names of the Schools listed in the article - oh yeah, they're only important when they need those parents to vote for a referendum where there is no specific language preventing them from taking a large amount of that money and using it on their "have" schools once again. "

to Normal Citizen wrote on Nov 28, 2007 12:02 PM:

" if you don't want your kid riding the bus for a long time then take him/her to school or move closer. Not my problem. Why should my tax dollars pay for new schools if the existing ones aren't being filled? Again - I said that we are heating, cooling, etc. all schools. I moved 3 blocks from my son's school so he can have the same experience I did when I was little of walking to school and walking to the playground. We chose our house based on location - I didn't want him riding a bus. "

to...... wrote on Nov 28, 2007 11:58 AM:

" I was glad to see your comment on how teachers get paid (choosing number of paychecks). Just like any job there is an agreed upon salary and the person either works their required hours, less hours or more hours. Just like all businesses - you have slackers and you have hard workers. I know quite a few people that pull down hefty salaries at a certain large company in town and they are only required to put in 37.5 hours per week - should they not get their agreed upon salary because they aren't working 40 hours like me? after all, it isn't fair is it? "

...... wrote on Nov 28, 2007 9:45 AM:

" Teachers get paid for 12 months of work?????? If that is true, I am going to go see why my paycheck is so small!!!!! FYI, teachers are on a contract. We get paid so much money for the required 185, or so, days. We are required to be at the building for 8 hours a day. And more time spent on the job we do not get paid for. Any extra days we spend, we do not get paid for. teachers really do not complain about the extra time we have to spend. It is part of the job. As for getting paid for 12 months of work... we are given the choice to get paid in 18 checks, or 24. Most choose 24. We will get paid the same amount at the end of the year either way. "

S. G. wrote on Nov 28, 2007 9:06 AM:

" AMEN TO "NORMAL CITIZEN"! I', M NOT AGAINST EDUCATION, BUT BETTER ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

To Normal Citizen wrote on Nov 28, 2007 8:51 AM:

" You sad, "but I also know I don't want children to miss getting the attention they need." I want a lot in life too, but I can't have everything I want. I have to plan, manage, prioritize, and make do with what I have. Schools need to practice that. "

Normal Citizen wrote on Nov 28, 2007 8:04 AM:

" I hope everyone who votes "no" responds to the article about class sizes of 30+ students in a few years. Who wants a 5-6 year old to start school with 30 other students in their kindergarten class. I don't want my taxes to go up, but I also know I don't want children to miss getting the attention they need. I know there are inequalities between schools in Unit 5 and that needs to be addressed! Someone suggested re-districting to re-distribute the children. Let's just add to the time some children already spend on the bus. Please consider all the facts and take time to make an "educated" decision. I plan on voting "YES". "

Where's the Beef? With Unit Five wrote on Nov 27, 2007 11:19 PM:

" Perhaps we could get rid of the schools, but the schools have already gotten rid of education. That's is the theme of all the complaints here, the schools and administrators are NOT doing their job, are wasting our children's time and our taxpayer money. I have not read a single post that was against education or teachers, they're all AGAINST UNIT Five administrators mismanaging our money - big difference. Do not confuse being against Unit Five as being against education. The two phrases should not even be uttered together in the same sentence. "

Final Solution wrote on Nov 27, 2007 10:44 PM:

" Let's just get rid of schools and education in general. That way none of you will have to complain about all the headaches it causes you... oh wait you were the student who needed to go to the nurse all of the time!!! "

Survey wrote on Nov 27, 2007 10:23 PM:

" Sounds like the survey had questions that were worded to "lead on" the respondents just like the survey IWU put together to guage support for the living wage some time ago. No wonder people get fed up with what's happening in education today. "

Upper-level management? wrote on Nov 27, 2007 9:57 PM:

" I must be confused about what "upper level management" is actually paid in this community. Teachers in Bloomington are certainly paid well (NOT overpaid, though), but I doubt that many teachers are making what an executive with the comparable education and experience is making. Bloomington's pay scale tops out somewhere in the mid 80K, if you have been teaching for about 30 years and have a master's degree plus 48 additional graduate hours of study. Are there really upper-level executives that have been with the same company for 30 years, have a master's degree plus all those extra hours, and are still making in the mid-80K? Honestly, I really would have thought that most executives with that education and experience would make more. I know several people at SF who are in their 20s and 30s and making 60 or 70K a year. . . .so I don't understand how someone in upper management in their 50s is only making 85K a year. ???? "

Teacher salaries wrote on Nov 27, 2007 9:48 PM:

" For the person who spoke of the overtime that non-teachers work - both teachers and non-teachers work overtime, so it seems to me to be a non-issue. At least some people in other fields who work overtime are financially compensated for that time, because teachers are not. In my first teaching position, I was paid $28,000 a year and regularly worked between 60 and 75 hours per week with no extra pay (and that began at the beginning of August and ended in the third week of June). I did have a week off at Christmas and one in March, but I sure felt like I deserved them! And this was in 2001, by the way, so I don't think that things are too different now for beginning teachers. We are NOT there for the money - we are there because we absolutely love our jobs - but it sure burns me when people complain about teachers being overpaid! "

Liars Lie and So do Surveys By Liars wrote on Nov 27, 2007 9:17 PM:

" Whoa, I think I was phoned for the survey, something about Future Educational Decisions and they refused to speak with me because I was not the male of the household. I hung up the phone thinking "What a bunch of sexist pigs!!!" Perhaps they wanted only my husband because he was a past CAC groupie and I was not! Hmmm...... "

phonesurvey wrote on Nov 27, 2007 7:22 PM:

" i also responded to the survey and felt it was biased. who doesn't believe that quality schools are good for the community or that children should have up to date technology etc? I am just concerned that this board and administration are not handling their finances and growth appropriately. Trust is key - I don't mind paying taxes to make this community a first-rate on e- but use my hard earned money wisely - don't squander it - I work too hard! "

Justin wrote on Nov 27, 2007 6:53 PM:

" The quality of one's education has never been proven to be proportional to the money spent. Large buildings and more equipment do not give children a better education. Unit 5 needs to make do with what they have and concentrate on basics and not all the extras. "

Re "To Mr. thechampion.org" wrote on Nov 27, 2007 6:10 PM:

" Then become a professional athlete. It's a free country. You say you don't have the needed skill/talent? Oh, that just proves the point then, doesn't it? "

Lucy wrote on Nov 27, 2007 5:20 PM:

" To everyone who think teachers have a cushy job and way overpaid, I challenge you to do their job for 6 weeks......the whole ball of was from lesson plans to grading papers to disciplining to teacher meetings to doing report cards and etc.!!! I know some SF people who have been in the classroom for just one day and couldn't wait for the bell to ring! "

Sam wrote on Nov 27, 2007 5:01 PM:

" More money does not make better schools and does not guarantee kids learn any better. I agree with the with the individual who wrote "Learn to do without the things you want and sometimes you need......that's what I have to do!!!! Vote NO!!! " "

To "teachers salaries vs others" wrote on Nov 27, 2007 4:38 PM:

" You conveniently omitted the "overtime" the non-teachers work. If you're going to try to do an analysis, don't start by skewing the facts to suit your opinion. "

To Mr. thechampion.org wrote on Nov 27, 2007 4:22 PM:

" Teaching is absolutely not an easy job and any person who thinks differently needs to go spend 1 day as a teacher. The ignorance of some of these comments is unbelievable. Professional athletes get paid millions of dollars to play a game and you are complaining about teachers getting paid $40,000 a year to mold our future generations? Not only do you have to teach 25 kids, but you have to deal with every problem of every child. Every developmental delay, every behavioral disorder, every non-english speaking child, among many, many other things. If all teachers had to do was teach, I think they would be thrilled. I am a substitute teacher, this is how I have some idea of what they have to do every day. "

Mr. Obvious wrote on Nov 27, 2007 4:21 PM:

" It's apparent by the comments here that an overwhelming majority of people do not support this tax increase but Unit 5 will continue with it anyway because their so-called phone survey says people support it....oh and by the way, the final results of that survey won't be available until a later date! A deceptive phone survey that only needs 250 out of 500 people voicing support is all that it takes to continue with this scam of our money? Count me in as a no! "

Tom wrote on Nov 27, 2007 4:18 PM:

" Sorry to burst the bubble of "Teachers salaries versus others" but most executive and near executive employees work a lot more than 8 hours per day and also take work home and work on weekends. Teachers pay in Bloomington is comparable to upper level management positions in all areas of our economy. Most upper level managers work through any lunch as well. The average work week for them is at least 55 hours and a minimum of 5.5 days per week. While they are on vacation they are checking email and handling phone calls. I know of no one in business who would not love to be off all the holidays teachers get. It must average at least 1 per month. Add to that 2 days at Thanksgiving, at least a week at Christmas, at least a week in the spring, and off from early June to early August. In regards to pay earned for hours worked teachers come out far ahead of business people. Take it from someone who has done both...I am glad I am teaching now...I get a lot more time off! "

Who donated the ... wrote on Nov 27, 2007 4:00 PM:

" money for the survey - Probably the same person(s) that donated the money for the new NorthPoint sign - and how much did that cost????? "

Livinginabubble wrote on Nov 27, 2007 3:58 PM:

" is what Bloomington/Normal is doing. Overcrowded classes, buildings falling apart, mismanaged finances on part of the school board, low income rentals flooding the west side, 300K plus homes being bought on the eastside but unable to fill it with furniture because they are overextended, eating out 4 plus times a week, 2 or more flat screen tvs, 16 year olds getting brand new cars for their birthdays, everyone thinking their child is the best on the team, and using all of the allotted 20 days (or more) sick time for you who are lucky enough to get it - and you are gonna complain about an increase in taxes for fear the teachers might get a raise - and now we know why we can't get an intelligent person on the school board - look at the pool we get to pick from! "

To Deceptive wrote on Nov 27, 2007 3:35 PM:

" I was also one that took part in the phone survey and I have nothing to do with the School Board, Unit 5 or any of the schools. I have no kids going to Unit 5 schools. Sorry to burst your bubble. "

Teacher salaries v. others wrote on Nov 27, 2007 3:26 PM:

" Ah, for the uneducated. . . Here's how it breaks down: Most districts require teachers to be there about 185 work days each year. Most teachers spend an average of AT LEAST 10 hours a day at work (many spend much more!). That equates to 1,850 hours each year, which doesn't count extra time on weekends, evenings, P/T conferences, etc etc etc. Take your average person with a "normal, 12-month" job. You have 52 weeks a year of 5 days/week. That is 260 days. Oh, you probably get 2 weeks vacation and a few holidays off, though, right? So we'll say 245 days at 8 hours a day. That equates to 1,960 hours a year. So really, we're talking about a difference of about 110 hours. . . .or roughly 2 1/2 weeks difference between the "overpaid 8-month teachers" and the "12-month jobs." And again, the hours for teachers don't include all the extras that teachers do. Umm. . .yeah . . .the teachers definitely earn their money!!! "

Overpaid ? wrote on Nov 27, 2007 3:23 PM:

" You can claim that teachers only work 8 months a year(Wrong) but how can you can claim that they are overpaid (wrong again)? They ae getting paid what they are getting paid. Who are you to decide what that pay should be? If the going rate for a teacher is X amount of dollars then it is X amount of dollars whether they work 6, 8 or 12 months a year. You probably cannot understand that logic but just read it a gain and again until you do!!! Also who the heck at State Farm makes 125,000 a year and their spouse also???? Maybe three or four couples? Certainly not 99.9% of the employees...just another false statement from those who dont know any better. "

nEW iDEA wrote on Nov 27, 2007 3:01 PM:

" Why dont we just vote and see what happens today, this new superintendant seems sure to make this a popularity contest based on back slapping and handsshakes, well thats only fun at Weddings and funerals which one is this?? "

EASY FIX wrote on Nov 27, 2007 2:58 PM:

" Get off your duff and just GO VOTE! "

And The Survey Says....Deceptive wrote on Nov 27, 2007 2:56 PM:

" How many of the 500 surveyed were hand-picked BECAUSE they have ties to the District? How skewered were the survey questions to get the results they want? Unit Five has zero credibility on referendums, responsible spending, quality education...all they have is arrogant Board members and administrators and a gluttonous Teacher's Union that has them by the you know what. I will continue to vote NO on any request for funds Unit Five requests until the day I die.....and they will STILL be mismanaging funds when that day comes. "

to Future Teacher wrote on Nov 27, 2007 2:32 PM:

" The anti-teacher types don't care. They won't be happy until everyone is making minimum wage. "

What am I missing? wrote on Nov 27, 2007 2:30 PM:

" We keep hearing talk about impact fees and that Bloomington won't collect them. Why doesn't Unit 5 take action in that direction instead of going to the same well again and again? I attended Unit 5, have two Unit 5 graduates and 2 still in school and I am tired of the promises they make everytime they want another referendum passed. They are dangeling the bait of renovating old schools to get our votes - but will that really happen? Or will it be the same old drill - they'll build new schools while the old ones are left the same and overcrowded? Will they promise me my 5th grader at Hoose will not have 27 kids in her class like she does this year? I doubt it. "

Concerned Taxpayer wrote on Nov 27, 2007 2:00 PM:

" To "Equity," Bloomington residents who live in Unit 5 pay Unit 5 taxes, whether or not they have kids in school. We pay our way. I pay $5,000/year to Unit 5 and don't send a child there. I have a $300,000 house with a B'ton address and a mortgage. I'll receive the $285 tax increase mentioned in the article - a big chunk of change for me. However, I support public education and don't mind paying for it. My problem with this referendum is that our money is and will be poorly managed. The board will ask us for more in a few years. They don't plan well. My son goes to religious school where they educate the kids with new computers, controlled class sizes, and excellent teachers on 2/3 of the $9,000+ that Unit 5 does. How? Good management! I, too, support a merger with District 87 - cut administrative costs. Why did Unit 5 parents reject it? I also am concerned by "Donations of about $22,000 paid for Unicom Arc’s telephone survey." Who donated? Tell us, otherwise, smells bad to me..... "