Pantagraph.com | Letters | Put prayer in schools, fight for what's right

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

To: Don't Want to Lose wrote on Dec 13, 2007 12:47 AM:

" Lose what? Your life? It was forfeited by your being born. Your "spirit" or "soul"? Not a one has ever been seen in captivity, anywhere, ever. A shot at "Everlasting" Life in "Heaven"? Not a single living being can begin to imagine the true dimensions of Eternity. Where is "Heaven"? If it is not physical, why would you need a body there? Yet Christians have envisioned going to Heaven in many ways, in old bodies. new bodies. and no bodies at all. Any embodiment will, by definition, would entail a material being. Yet Jesus taught that the Material has no value or meaning in Heaven. A Spirit existence, on the other hand, is so completely alien to the human experience as to be as hard to conceive as the notion of Eternity. So basically, you cannot begin to define what there is to be lost or gained and still you want all of us to live in fear of it? "

to Bee wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:54 PM:

" Um, no. It was freedom of religion... if people had just wanted to worship your god, they could have stayed in England. The Church of England is a Christian church after all. The Puritans and other groups wanted the freedom to worship in their own way... and get this... freedom to worship includes freedom to not worship. Deal. "

To Bee: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:52 PM:

" The reason we have a separation of Church and State is so that radical churchgoers, no matter how well or how much good they are trying to do, can't force feed their religion down others throat! I bet if we started allowing wiccan practicing in State Buildings, the Christians will start to throw a fit! "

Ris wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:50 PM:

" CONT. Walk in your childs shoes for an entire day at school. Its not as easy as you think! A moment of silence isnt going to make your children any better at school, its not enough time to cram for the test or complete the homework you failed to help them with the night before. It doesn't make your child a better person! Cont. Even if they do pray, dont you think they would have done it before school if it meant that much to them? Plus, its not "forced", so those that probably DO need it, wont! It isn't beneficial for the community, no service is being done. If want model citizens, patronize your local Girl/Boy scouts, therapy or your own church. These are the organizations, OUTSIDE our schools that should help! Lets leave adult opinions out of our childrens schools!!! "

Ris wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:49 PM:

" I am a model citizen... I have earned the Girl Scout Gold Award/Silver Award, Earned High honors at Illinois State as well as other organizations. You will find me all over this town, one that has only been my home for a few years, volunteering in one way or another. I am completely against the moment of silence because i see the "benifit" of it every day... You thought I was going to say it was really benificial? Students use this time to write on desks, focus on whos dating who and whats going on after school hours. I believe, before any more decisions on this so called "law" are enacted, our public schools should be polled. Lets hear what the students and teachers have to say about the law? I BET more than 85% will say it is the most unnessary and unhelpful moment of the day! Students hate it and rebel as much as possible! As parents, im ashamed that you can say its "positive" for your children... who are you to decide when you have never sat through that part of the day? cont. "

Bee wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:17 PM:

" To those who don't remember, never knew or have choosen to forget-The United States of America was founded for freedom to worship God. Go back and read our countries original documents and find the country was founded for the church to be able to freely worship God. The myth of separation of church and state has no place in America and is not anywhere in our founding documents, however it is in the Russian Constitution. Those who want this separation should perhaps move there and be happy. "

To Watchman: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 1:21 PM:

" If a man was about to brainwash your kid into believing in a fake God and making him a sheep of Christian cult, wouldn't you want to stop him?? "

To Watchman: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 1:15 PM:

" If a man was about to brainwash your kid into believing in a fake God and making him a sheep of Christian cult, wouldn't you want to stop him?? "

To Watchman: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 1:13 PM:

" Saving a kid from getting hit by a car and supposedly "saving" a child from sin are two different things. Cars are real objects and can kill the kids. God is fake and no more harm than Santa Claus. "

To: Watchman wrote on Dec 12, 2007 1:02 PM:

" Please use some common sense - your analogies are way off base - and have nothing to do with the issue at hand. We've all been warned - thank you very much. Now, what does that have to do with the constitutionality of this ridiculous law? "

To Watchman: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 1:02 PM:

Don't Want to Lose wrote on Dec 12, 2007 12:48 PM:

" My kids certainly weren't dumb, but probably the smartest one was very strong-willed. But really, isn't talking to your children forcing your beliefs on THEM, so now we've gone the full circle. I will agree some Christians get so upset with the little things we tend to miss the big picture. On the hand, some people seem to ignore the Christ because of preferring sin. That could be deadly. (Of course, only if my religion is right, but the stakes are EXTREMELY high.) "

Watchman wrote on Dec 12, 2007 12:08 PM:

" If a child was about to run into a street and be killed, wouldn't you want to stop them? If a blind friend was about to walk over a cliff, wouldn't you stop them? If a neighbors house was on fire, wouldn't you pound on their door to wake them up? The LOVING thing to do is to warn lost sinners that unless they turn from sin and turn to Christ they will be eternally condemned. Yes, there are many liberal Christians that don't WARN people of the judgment to come "

Jarhead wrote on Dec 12, 2007 12:00 PM:

" This isn't (or shouldn't be) about who's right or wrong, or who's going to heaven and who isn't. It's about the Constitution of the United States (which I swore to defend many years ago) and what this "law" does to that document. Prayer, or a moment of silence, in public schools flies in the face of the Constitution. This "law" is unconstitutional and should be thrown out - it's that simple. "

to Carl wrote on Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM:

" Wait a second, there's no opportunity to pray in public schools? Funny, I could think of lots of times where I could pray if I were a believer. There was always 30 seconds to spare when the test started or while in the locker room before a game. If I wanted, I could always have said a little prayer before asking that girl to the dance. No one stopped me. The only thing stopping people from praying is lack of belief. There's always a moment to pray independently if you want to. I think the fundies just want everyone to know they're praying and then apply peer pressure to those who don't. "

to Don't Want To Lose wrote on Dec 12, 2007 11:15 AM:

" Your kids must be dumb. I told my kids not to go out in the roads, you know talked to them and treated them like human beings instead of dogs, and they've never gone in the street and always look both ways. I've never spanked or bullied them, either. I don't know how it you make the leap from spanking your kids to evangalism, but I get the feeling that you think non-Christians are like children lead astray. Got news for you. I was forced to attend one of your churches for the first 18 years of my life and never believed in your fantasies for a second. So take your condesending attitude and stick it where the sun don't shine. "

To Don't Want To Lose: wrote on Dec 12, 2007 10:46 AM:

" Please don't do me any so called 'favors'. I don't want your Christian garbage preached to me. My kids are good kids without it. "

God of Mercy wrote on Dec 12, 2007 10:33 AM:

" God is a God of mercy. All of our precious children that are in school are there because of His tremendous mercy unmerited grace. To all that can and will continue to pray. He is a God of love and mercy, but with anyone sometimes the wrong buttons can be pushed to much. Be careful what you say, it may come back to bite you. You should pray yourselves for your children as well as have them to pray always and not just while they are in school. And that is to pray with or without the minute of silence allow in our schools. "

Don't Want To Lose wrote on Dec 12, 2007 9:39 AM:

" Which is worse, to spank a child or not teach them to watch for cars before crossing the street? Christians can be nice, but if they don't warn others of sin and hell, they are doing them no favors. By the way, some children need to be spanked more than once before they get the idea not to go running out onto the road. "

Carl wrote on Dec 12, 2007 9:05 AM:

" Prayer, or the opportunity to pray, is badly needed in public schools. It not only inforces the idea of goodness in the world, but teaches tollerance of other people and their beliefs to the most intollerant group in America. The Athiests. Non believers need not pray along. They can just remain silently respectful and use the brief time to collect their thoughts and prepare for the day. After all, believers are respectful of you! "

To: To responder of win-win wrote on Dec 12, 2007 9:01 AM:

" Even though we are all sinners - because NOBODY is perfect - that doesn't mean that there aren't people that still strive to be good. Who live their lives as productive members of society, who will help others in need, and who want good lives for their children. Just because we are sinners, doesn't mean we aren't good people. Everything can be considered a sin so nobody is perfect. I feel sad for you that you don't believe that there are people that have good in their hearts, and they don't all practice Christianity. Some practice other religions, and others don't practice any particular religion. It is not yours, nor anybody else's, place to decide what is right for another person. Oh, and please stop speaking for ALL Christians. I have Christian friends that are horrified at the way you and your overzealous flock are villianizing everybody who isn't a Christian. That really isn't the Christian way, is it? "

Transformed wrote on Dec 12, 2007 8:32 AM:

" Those who claim Christ and are not truly Christian may be poor role models. Again, Jesus said, if you love me you will keep may commandments. True Christians love even those who say nasty things about them and the one true God on Pantagraph message boards. "

In my experience wrote on Dec 12, 2007 7:05 AM:

" Christians are the worst role models. Don't get me started on examples. "

Does anyone wrote on Dec 11, 2007 11:44 PM:

" know the real father of Jesus?? We all know she wasn't a virgin, could have been anyone. We all know Mary was a celebrity party girl. When I think of party girls I think of Brittney Spears, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, and Mary. "

To to responder of win win: wrote on Dec 11, 2007 11:40 PM:

" I love a lot of things more than some fictional God, that includes peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. "

to responder of win win wrote on Dec 11, 2007 5:56 PM:

" Here is the problem with the so called GOOD argument. No one is morally good. Only God is good. We have all lied, stolen, lusted, loved self more than God, hated, stolen, dishonored our parents, gossiped, been greedy,etc, etc. Oh, yea, and been so, so, so, so, prideful, and self-righteous. Our only hope for forgiveness of sin is to repent (turn from sin) and put our trust in Christ alone for salvation. We broke God's laws and Jesus paid our fine. He lived a perfect life that we could not live, and he suffered and died on the cross for our sins. "

Ok, Ok wrote on Dec 11, 2007 5:05 PM:

" OK, OK, so you don't want your sins forgiven. Well, one difference between buddha and Jesus Christ is buddha never claimed to be the Savior of the world, and the only way to heaven. Jesus claimed to be the great I AM; He is either liar, lunatic, or Lord. By the way, true Christians don't molest children! Duh, duh, duh,.......... "

To each their own wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:42 PM:

" everyone (including children) should have the right to decide what they want to believe in, otherwise you are not free. i come from a family that has many religions and/or lack there of and i can not see what everyone is squawking about. why not decide what you want to believe in and immerse yourself in your own beliefs and stop trying to push your religion on others. I believe in god but i am not going to go around and try to make you believe too. my husband doesn't believe but that does not mean i love him any less. a moment of silence does not mean prayer but if a child wants to pray they should be allowed too. not forced too!! and if a child just wants a few moments to reflect on how they want their day to go they should be allowed to do this instead. a moment of silence is just that, a few seconds to reflect, pray, what ever it is that you want..... "

To: Win-Win wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:37 PM:

" What's wrong with that is the idea that ONLY Christians are generally good people that work to learn from their mistakes, and help others in need. There are other religions out there you know. All you Christians assume that anybody that's not a Christian must not believe in anything and thus are horrible people that make the world a rotten place. There's lots of so-called Christians that break the law, use their standing in the church to molest children, and those that beat their wives into submission. There are lots of non-Christians that are good people but just don't believe the same way you do. Having a different set of religious beliefs and/or practices, or not believing in one particular religion, doesn't make someone a bad person who's headed to a make-believe land of fire to fry for eternity. It's wrong to tell someone they are bad for what they believe. In fact, from what I understand, it's a pretty big sin for a Christian to be so judgmental, because you guys believe that only God can judge others - and I'm pretty sure he didn't ask you to step in for him. "

To: Win-Win wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:26 PM:

" Just because someone is not a Christian, doesn't mean they don't believe in a higher power. What makes you think Christianity is correct and Buddhism is wrong? So anybody that is not a Christian must automatically go to hell regardless of what it is they do believe? That's messed up. If that's what you have to believe in order to be a true Christian, then I'd rather believe in something that doesn't exclude the belief practices of everybody else in the entire world. "

To: Win Win wrote on Dec 11, 2007 4:26 PM:

" What is wrong with it, is that I do not want to. I have no desire to pretend belief in God. I have no desire to "do good deeds' to buy my way into heaven. How about this. How about you keep your beliefs to yourself, in your house and church, and let everyone else live their lives how they see fit. Now that is a win win. You get your religion while not not annoying those who have no interest in it. Why is it Christians think that the only way for everyone to get along, is for everyone to convert. Are they not intelligent and mature enough to live their lives while other live theirs? "

Lizzy wrote on Dec 11, 2007 3:27 PM:

" I will spell this out as clearly as possible: I have no issues with a moment of silence. I have issues with having the word "prayer" in it as well. It's discriminatory. "

Lizzy wrote on Dec 11, 2007 3:10 PM:

" You completely and totally missed my point - which does not surprise me in the least. I was playing off Open-minded's comment having fun. "

To Win Win: wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:54 PM:

" Don't forget abusing kids, since that's what your Christian priests like to do. "

In my experience wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:27 PM:

" Christians are the worst role models. Don't get me started on examples. "

Win, Win wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:22 PM:

" I've got a great idea! Why don't you anti-Christian folk repent of your sins and follow Christ. A whole city of people loving your neighbor as yourself, doing good to those who spite you, turning the other cheek, helping the poor and destitute, loving God with all your heart... Tell me, what is so wrong with that??? Seriously, what is so wrong with that?? "

To: Hmmm wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:07 PM:

" Christians are not the issue. People who want to force received "wisdom" without restraints onto others are. So, if your 'faith", (of whatever flavor or variety) is predicated first and foremost on "scriptures" or the pronouncements of "Chosen" or "Anointed" "Prophets" and follows traditions that are NOT subject to question or examination, it is objectionable. "

To Lizzy wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:05 PM:

" Get a grip. Religion is a part of most people's lives and it worthy of being taught about to some degree, but a "moment of silence" is what it says. Think about whatever you want to think about during your moment of silence. "

To OpenMinded wrote on Dec 11, 2007 2:00 PM:

" Your animal sacrifice idea is farfetched. If a student prays or thinks that way during a "moment of silence" at school, that is their choice. "

Lizzy wrote on Dec 11, 2007 1:26 PM:

" Yes! And we can re-enact the crusades as well! Have classes fight one another in the name of religion! "

Lizzy wrote on Dec 11, 2007 1:18 PM:

" O! Can we have animal sacrifices as well??? As long as their for religious purposes of course.... "

In my experience wrote on Dec 11, 2007 1:13 PM:

" Christians are the worst role models. Don't get me started on examples. "

Hail Mary wrote on Dec 11, 2007 12:51 PM:

" Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with Thee, Blessed are you among women and Blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus, Holy Mary Mother of God Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our Death. Amen! Holy Mary Mother of God Pray for Us in our time of most need. "

JD wrote on Dec 11, 2007 12:50 PM:

" I have a good middle ground. How about prayer being allowed in school if churches become taxable? This is a win-win for everyone! Imagine how much money would be raised by those churches setting on muli-million dollar plots of land. Plus the churches would have to, of course, follow any federal, state, or local regulation applied to them. After all, if there is no separation of church and state, the churches do not deserve special treatment. "

OpenMinded wrote on Dec 11, 2007 10:59 AM:

" If you want to insist on prayer in schools, then I insist on devil worshipping in schools also. Not everyone follows the same faith. Why try to cram yours down other's throat. Personally I'm a Pastafarian, it makes just as much sense as your religion. "

Back 2000 years ago wrote on Dec 11, 2007 10:24 AM:

" people thought that the world was flat too. Do you still believe that?? So why should some little fictional book be believed now too?? "

The answer wrote on Dec 11, 2007 9:58 AM:

" Just because George Washington didn't write about attending church in his diary, does not mean that he was not a Christian. Until the history books have completely changed the story, a few of us still remember that the reason for many coming to America was religious freedom. Granted, the realization that a forced religion was wrong motivated many people, but our early schools included Bible reading which indicates some form of Christianity. "

To Hmmmm. wrote on Dec 11, 2007 9:13 AM:

" Yes, outstanding citizens, like the priests abusing kids. Outstanding! "

to Hmmmm. wrote on Dec 11, 2007 9:05 AM:

" People who turn over their life to god are outstanding citizens? Sheep is more like it... ready to follow any politician who claims to be Christian. Besides, wasn't the guy who shot up that Colorado mission a devout Christian? "

To: Hmmm wrote on Dec 11, 2007 8:45 AM:

" Wake up! You aren't just arguing against so-called non-believers. I disagree with you and I consider myself to be spiritual. I know there's a Creator, most often referred to as God. I know there's life after death. I know there's a better place on the "other side", known as many names: Heaven, or Summerland, or some wonderful place you go after "crossing over". It's not that people are "afraid" of Christians - how arrogant of you to thinks so. People take issue with a person claiming that their beliefs are right and everybody else's wrong, and if they don't believe what you believe, they'll go to some make-believe world of fire and brimstone. People take more issue with you/people like you forcing your beliefs on THEIR children. How do you know everybody else is wrong? How do you know their beliefs aren't right ALSO? When you get to this "other side", whatever name you may call it, do you really believe that it'll be entirely made of one single belief system? That a euphoric place like that will be comprised of a single-minded way of thought and belief? "

Jarhead wrote on Dec 11, 2007 7:35 AM:

" I understand that some Christian sects are charged to evangalize, but I don't believe they have to evangalize in school. Thanks for your concern about my soul, but my soul is my business, not yours. If you're right, then you'll be in heaven and I won't and I'm satisfied with that outcome. In the meantime, please stop trying to convert our country into a theocracy - it's a republic which requires the government to be neutral in matters of religion. "

Hmmmm. wrote on Dec 11, 2007 7:26 AM:

" Lets stop for a moment / Why are people so threatened by Christians? Is it because it keeps the Police from having to be at Christian concerts? How many drunk staggering people do you see coming from a Christian crusade or concert? People that turn their life over to God are outstanding citizens - Oh of course there are always hypocrits - that is a fact of life. If people are going to quit going to church because of hypocrits - then you'll have to quit breathing cause they are a constant in everyday life. Christians make for a better life, friends & neightbors. "

To: The answer wrote on Dec 11, 2007 7:04 AM:

" Much of the myth of Washington's alleged Christianity came from Mason Weems influential book, "Life of Washington." Weems, a CHRISTIAN MINISTER portrayed Washington as a devout Christian, yet Washington's own diaries show that he rarely attended Church. I know, it is soooo hard to belaive that a religious zealot like weems would lie!!! Christians have no sense of right or wrong when it comes to forcing their religion on us. "

I want my kids to wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:23 PM:

" learn about Darwin and evolution in church. "

to first of all: wrote on Dec 10, 2007 10:21 PM:

" YOU are a crazy Christian. "

Wacky Christian wrote on Dec 10, 2007 8:59 PM:

" As Jesus was sending the disciples out to tell the Good News he told them to tell the story and if the town wouldn't hear it the disciples were to shake off the dust of that place and keep on going. NOT engage in silly arguements with people who could not (would not) see. I suggest to my fellow believers that we do the same. "

first of all.. wrote on Dec 10, 2007 6:58 PM:

" ..it's not in the Constitution that "Federal Gov." control schools, (the Dept. of Ed. was forced in the seventies, 5 yrs later cost of college ed. increased by 2000%). Secondly...Your now living at the brink of what the Bible "perfectly" describes regarding "The Last/Latter Days" and are clueless to what is being built around you. Including the set up of "world (globalization) government", coming nuclear war, the "Mark (eyescan/fingerprint/chip implant) of the Beast, and "As were the Days Of Noah" when aliens innerbred with humans, alien (demonic) invasion/monsters/strange creatures/giants roamed the earth, it will again take place. Satan laughs at your deception, knowing you have been masterfully blinded. If ever a time to pray, it would be "now".. "

No enforced Religion wrote on Dec 10, 2007 6:09 PM:

" in Public Schools for one simple reason - Kids go to school to learn to think and ask questions. This is in no way compatible with the Christian "Faith". "

to RE:Question to Christians wrote on Dec 10, 2007 4:03 PM:

" Sounds like Santa Claus to me! "

To Christian mom wrote on Dec 10, 2007 3:52 PM:

" These couple or few bloggers who say they are “offended” at allowing a “moment of silence” in schools are afraid it will work against their trying to offend religious people in schools and everywhere else. They’re afraid somebody might see a student praying and respect them. We can’t have that, it’s not secular enough. "

To RE:Question to Christians: wrote on Dec 10, 2007 3:23 PM:

" And you really believe that?? WOW! "

RE:Question to Christians wrote on Dec 10, 2007 2:25 PM:

" We will know when Jesus returns because he told us. If anyone comes to you and says they are Jesus, they lie. Jesus will come in the clouds with a loud shout "come up hither" Even atheists will see Him and know how wrong they are. "

to Anchor wrote on Dec 10, 2007 2:24 PM:

" That's because Fundies can't see the difference between mandatory and voluntary prayer. "

to The Answer wrote on Dec 10, 2007 2:24 PM:

" The Founding Fathers were Deists....not Christians and certainly not Fundies. As for your faith being a wonderful thing? Spare me. "

Anchor wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:56 PM:

" Huh....this conversation is right where I left it almost a month ago.....no where. "

The Answer wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:47 PM:

" The answer for Christians pushing our religion is perhaps over-zealousness. When one has a strong faith, we want to share this wonderful finding with others. But, as taxpayers, it seems wrong not to recognize Jesus, especially since our Founding Fathers were CHRISTIAN. "

To: Godstrong wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:30 PM:

" I'm pretty sure if a group of students wanted to have a group prayer that's fine. As long as they aren't disrupting class. They could do it during lunch, or recess, or right before/after school. Nobody is saying they can't do that. However, people are saying it's completely wrong to suggest that all students participate. Not all students and their families believe the same thing. "

to GodStrong wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:17 PM:

" There's no problem with 2 students INDEPENDENTLY praying together. The problem arises when all students have a mandatory moment of prayer. A student is free to practice their religion. The Government cannot force me to practice a religion or favor one religion over another. "

URA temporary thinker wrote on Dec 10, 2007 1:07 PM:

" The if it works argument will not hold up on judgment day. You and your supposed moral children have a huge problem; (just like the rest of us) it's called sin. When you stand before a Holy God to give an account for every thought, word, deed, you will be shown for what you are (UNRIGHTEOUS). Spiritually speaking you have broken God's laws and you need someone to pay your fine. Jesus suffered and died on the cross for repentent, mournful, contrite, and broken sinners. There is no hope for the self-righteous, proud, so-called moral people. "

To: To: Question to Christians wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:49 AM:

" Thank you for illustrating how some Christians (not all) will merely spout off Bible verses as if that answers anybody's question, but rarely do they say anything in their own words, just parrot whatever verses in the Bible they think apply - when most don't. Most are taken out of context. Some Christians force their religion onto others who already have perfectly good beliefs that have worked for them thus far. Some Christians, just sound like puppets, blindly believing whatever one person claims to be the correct interpretation of the Bible. And gosh darnit you're just going to demand everybody believes what you do, because YOURS is the correct religion, right? WRONG! You cannot force anybody to change their beliefs. Maybe their religion is correct - for them. Yours is correct for you (that is, if you like reciting out-of-context Bible verses instead of answering questions truthfully from your own heart). It's not for you to decide what is right for me and my children. We decide what is best for US. I don't see why you need to be a part of that process. "

GodStrong wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:45 AM:

" (cont.) And to Curious: I am not talking about if a kid wants to pray over his food (no matter the religion) or right before a test. I am talking about when group prayer was taken out the schools. I know an individual can pray all day long if they wanted to, and no one would notice. But why can't 2 kids or more pray together for there school and country? Both need it. Where is the harm in that? They are not trying to say you have to pray, but want to take a moment with there friends and do that? "

God Strong wrote on Dec 10, 2007 11:45 AM:

" To the two comments that were made to me. First I want to say how am I way out in left field? You said kids want a beer in school. I am sorry I remember that there is a drinking law and you have to be how old? That is absurd that you would compare that to what I said. Can kids have there own individuality and bring that with them to school? For example a Christian, a Mormon and a Hindu? Or are all the kids to conform and be one mind and thought? Well there goes our freedom that we are fighting for right? Why can we not embrace what is different? (cont.) "

Mother of 2 wrote on Dec 10, 2007 10:41 AM:

" If you are a "smartmom" as claimed, you would be allowing your children freedom of choice in their beliefs so they will not rebel against something that they do not believe in. My children have plenty of morals, self-discipline and are very polite and well-behaved. And, shocking I know, they never have religion force fed to them. "

to: Satanist wrote on Dec 10, 2007 10:04 AM:

" You have an interesting name for believing that there is no satan. Perhaps, you're confused. "

smartmom wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:43 AM:

" so much writing. so little observing and thinking. all you have to do is look. really look. there is an amazing difference between the children who go to religious private schools and kids who don't. the religious private school kids have morals, ethics, faith, love for their community and much higher educations. the statistics are there to back it up. and all you have to do is look around our community. very apparent. just open your eyes. so yes, my children claim jesus and as a family we fight for christianity. the students at my children's school are shining examples of what prayer in school can do. since everything else is failing in the public schools it is just a suggestion that you might want to try the examples that work. "

to Christian mom wrote on Dec 10, 2007 9:41 AM:

" Forcing kids to talk to your imaginary friend will prevent violence??? How do you figure? Most people in prison are Christian. "

Christian mom wrote on Dec 10, 2007 8:40 AM:

" Maybe there would be less violence in schools if they allowed time for prayer in school. Moment of silence is the best alternative. Those who want to pray can those who don't can reflect on what they have to do for the day. It shouldn't be that big of a deal. The moment of silence isn't forcing prayer on anyone. "

Satanist.. wrote on Dec 9, 2007 11:38 PM:

" I think everyone should just become one. It would save us all a lot of hassle. Everyone who gose around and hurls this crap around about praying would save us all and religion is the key...pfft, go blow it out your butt. If anything religion is the worst thing to happen to human kind in all its vast history. It is the reason for wars, a lot of crime, most types of hate, and...well pure evil itself. Because we all know thier can not be good without evil and thier is no Abbadon, Angra Mainyu, Satan, Asmodai, Beelzebub, Lucifer, Belial,or Iblis without a deity(s). So save all this crap and go back into your blind little hole ware no truth can reach you. "

Being a wrote on Dec 9, 2007 10:22 PM:

" Christian would be enough to offend me. I'd hate to think I was that stupid. "

to mami wrote on Dec 9, 2007 8:45 PM:

" Prayer is allowed in schools....just not organized prayer like the Moment of Silence and Prayer. "

mami wrote on Dec 9, 2007 7:48 PM:

" Prayer should be allowed in schools. The schools take the children to graveyards and teach them about death so if they are doing that then there should be atleast a time set aside for children to pray or just sit quietly,whichever option they choose. I think it should be atleast an option and the schools should set that time aside. "

To Ris wrote on Dec 9, 2007 5:39 PM:

" Your response for Christmas holiday should be on another blog. It should not offend anyone to do whatever they want with their "moment of silence" or "silent reflection" in school. It's a good tool to help children settle in and be focused on listening and doing their schoolwork. "

Athiest Teen wrote on Dec 9, 2007 5:36 PM:

" Everyone is so obsessed over religion, and I think everyone just needs to take a step back, settle down, and actually think about what they're religion is. If God created humans and everything else supposedly, than who created Him? I would like someone to answer that for me. The truth is, -no- one knows whats out there and whats going to await everyones fate after they pass away. You can believe what you want, but no ones knows really. And in the end, we'll all probably figure out, we are wrong. "

Don't Believe wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:46 PM:

" Put public education in Churches! Bring in the English, Math, Science, Ect. and allow us to have a moment with your children as you get ready for your masses! Then, JUST THEN, the moment of silence in your public school systems can be justified... maybe. If you really want your kid to pray in school, for the sake of us teachers, PUT THEM IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS! "

Ris wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:25 PM:

" I'll just say Happy Holidays! Thanks! This will in turn, not offend any religion! "

To: Question to Christians wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:06 PM:

" 1) Read Isaiah 53 where it prophesied explicitly about Jesus. 2) If a man would come up to me and tell me it’s judgment day, all I would say is, “I’m ready.” Are you? In Luke 19:11-27, Jesus gave a parable instructing His people to “occupy,” or to be about our daily lives in obedience to Him, until He comes. 3) Read 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. When Jesus comes, His people will be “caught up together…in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” 4) Tricks are for kids, but God’s miracles are not for show. God’s miracles have His purposes in mind, which include things like deliverance, healing and (as with Jesus' disciples when He came to them walking on the water and giving power to the one who asked Him to do the same) strengthening the faith of His people in preparation for a powerful ministry of blessing others and bringing their souls out of captivity and into everlasting life with Jesus. "

to Dear Atheist wrote on Dec 9, 2007 3:54 PM:

" I look forward to rotting in the ground with you. There is no god, no lake of fire, or anything else. When you die, the worms eat you... just like any other living thing that died. "

Re to Atheist wrote on Dec 9, 2007 3:20 PM:

" How do you kill something that doesn't exist. That is like me attempting to kill Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. "

Religion wrote on Dec 9, 2007 1:43 PM:

" All religious systems except Christianity are man's attempts to reach up to God and save themselves. Only in Christianity do you have God coming to earth to save lost sinners. No religious system of so called works righteousness can save you. Salvation is a gift of God for those who repent of sin and put their faith and trust is Christ's finished work on the cross. "

Dear Atheist wrote on Dec 9, 2007 1:39 PM:

" You are attempting to kill God. That is what a murderer does; they want to get rid of someone. God sits enthroned above the circle of the earth and laughs at your folly. Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for the rest of God's redeemed creation, you will be cast into the lake of fire (unless you repent). "

to To: This again???? wrote on Dec 9, 2007 11:14 AM:

" Why should the rest of the students compromise so you fundies can have your little moment of prayer? I'll accept your compromise if you compromise and allow Richard Dawkins to speak at your church. "

Mr. Positivity wrote on Dec 9, 2007 10:42 AM:

" Hey friends, let's get to 300 posts! So what's the best solution to the "prayer in schools" question here? Here's one option to get us talking: Each student may choose whether or not to pray, what to pray about, when and how to pray, as long as it doesn't violate other school rules (attendance, violence, etc.). Likewise, schools may offer scheduled time to pray, and must protect students' freedom to choose without influence. Why would this work? Or how could it be improved? Or what might be better? "

To: Please pray wrote on Dec 9, 2007 9:03 AM:

" Does God need your prayers to know what is going on or what to do? This brings up the point that if God does, then you God is not all knowing and all powerful. If God does not need the prayers, then your praying is a waste of time. This idiocy of continuing to force your religion on people is the reason why religion will never be in schools. The vast majority of the religious people posting here are just one step from being Jihadists. They lack the ability to think for themselves, and believe that their religion should be spread at any cost. It shows the total lack of reason, logic, and intelligence that religious zealots possess. "

Question to Christians wrote on Dec 9, 2007 5:07 AM:

" Why is it you believe in the divinity of Jesus? Because a book tells you so? If a man were to come up to you today, and tell you it is judgement day, would you really believe him? How are you going to know it is really Jesus. I could dress up with a beard and a gettup and say I am Jesus. I could learn the tricks like Criss Angel and walk on water. Would you believe me? "

I am tired wrote on Dec 9, 2007 5:04 AM:

" of Christians trying to force this nonsense on the non believers. I say a bunch of us athiests get together and go door to door trying to put some sense into their heads. I don't go around trying to talk them out of loving their god, why do you people try to push me into believing in your fairytale? I dont feel you are wrong for believing what you do, but it irritates me when you try to make me feel like a bad person for realizing the truth. "

re: To Sadistic wrote on Dec 9, 2007 5:01 AM:

" So what are all of the Hindus, Wiccans, and Muslims going to do on Judgement day? Are they going to hell because they didn't believe on the "right God" If God really did exist, don't you think we would all believe in the same God? I mean think about it really. "

To all Christians wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:58 AM:

" If you are true Christians, then this Christmas why not celebrate God and Jesus instead of going crazy on spending Christmas gifts? I am a non believer, but I understand Christmas is about your God. I find it funny at Xmas time, everyone focuses on all of the material things and you don't even remember your God. You don't even celebrate this time wisely, just on time to think about the material things you want. "

re: To everyone wrote on Dec 9, 2007 4:47 AM:

" Yes Jesus is my most favorite fictional character as well..right up there with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I like going to this one site where you can dress up Jesus in costumes like superman, elvis, a clown etc. It makes things fun. "

To Everyone: wrote on Dec 9, 2007 12:09 AM:

" Jesus is my favorite fictional character too. "

HAHA wrote on Dec 8, 2007 11:59 PM:

" I'll pray & post at the same time, just like praying & studying at the same time, in school, before the moment of silence was enacted. "

To to pantagraph: wrote on Dec 8, 2007 11:57 PM:

" Quit being a crybaby. And Mohammad is fake. "

Please Pray wrote on Dec 8, 2007 11:41 PM:

" rather than posting. Just keep praying for a moment of silence and allow God to do his work. He'll do it right after he saves all of the little girls being sold for sex all around the world. I guess God wanted that life for them. "

Prayer in School wrote on Dec 8, 2007 11:34 PM:

" A moment of silence is a great idea. What will happen when a group of children decided to pray to Satan and they share the idea? Point being, you can't force faith on a person. To believe is just that, believe. "

To: This again???? wrote on Dec 8, 2007 9:54 PM:

" The compromise is the moment is silent. You are free to use that silence however you want. "

Ashley wrote on Dec 8, 2007 8:49 PM:

" The Bible states something about ashes to ashes and dust to dust. How long has science realized that the human body is made-up of carbon? I'm thinking that statement may have come from one of Solomon's quotes. No wonder he was known for his wisdom. Let's try a moment of silence and see whether or not test scores improve. "

what's next wrote on Dec 8, 2007 7:57 PM:

" what's next The Pledge Of Allegiance "

To Sad... wrote on Dec 8, 2007 5:32 PM:

" This is just for you :) Plant earth has 6.5 billion people, 193 countries, 56,000,000 die per year, 153,000 per day, 6,370 per hour, 107 per minute, 1.78 per second, and those without Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior are going to hell. Anymore questions?? "

Misbegotten wrote on Dec 8, 2007 4:48 PM:

" There were many sons but only one 'begotten' son. God swived the wench Mary. The rest were made from whole-cloth. "

To: Friend of think with me wrote on Dec 8, 2007 12:22 PM:

" You have an awful lot of "ifs" to attempt to justify a "moment of silence". If none of that is true though, then you can not justify the "moment of silence". I am sure that IF you can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that God exists and has done all you say, then a moment of silence is almost guaranteed. Until then, you are just spouting you opinion in an attempt to justify an action which you have ulterior motives for wanting. "

to pantagraph wrote on Dec 8, 2007 11:47 AM:

" would you allow me to say that Mohammad is fake and burn all copies of the Koran? How is "I humbly admits" comment not HATE SPEECH? "

yawn wrote on Dec 8, 2007 10:44 AM:

" Still? They cut Sherry N's comments off because she is such a prude, and this garbage goes on this long? Barf! If there is a god, why do priests molest? "

I humbly admit.. wrote on Dec 8, 2007 10:03 AM:

" God is fake and burn all bibles. "

to I humbly admit... wrote on Dec 8, 2007 10:02 AM:

" This is such a conflict. The Flying Spaghetti Monster wants you to dress up like a pirate. Who to obey? "

to: EVERYONE wrote on Dec 8, 2007 9:40 AM:

" Haha. Mine personally is God. "

Friend of think with me wrote on Dec 8, 2007 9:08 AM:

" If I were the Creator, I might have created the Earth. It's truly marvelous all of the beauty and color. Then, to have the power to create something such as humans that have the ability to love is almost unfathomable. But, if I were the Creator I would expect my creation to have respect for me, and of course love would be mandatory IF I was willing to take on flesh myself and be sacrificed for that creation. The power to create the universe - AWESOME! Isn't this being worthy of a moment of silence in our public school? "

Compromise? - no need wrote on Dec 8, 2007 9:05 AM:

" Students already have the right to pray as much as they want, as long as they are not disruptive (which shouldn't be a problem for Christians - silent prayer, right?). What is not allowed is having the state, or its agents (such as teachers) leading the students in prayer, or "silent reflection". Why is that so hard to grasp? And why do folks keep bringing up their version of creation - totally irrelevant to the topic? "

Sad Day wrote on Dec 8, 2007 8:47 AM:

" Why does it seem that the comments on this issue has devolved into Christians spouting rhetoric which has nothing to do with the topic. Do they get bonus points with their God for each word, or is there a quota of pushiness they need to buy their way into their heaven? People wonder why Christians are so disliked by so many. Just look at those who post scriptures which have nothing to do with the article, are not request or desired, and serve no purpose but to further irate those wishing to debate the topic. If Christians want to be viewed in a better light, they need to quit acting like selfish brats screaming "me me me". "

I humbly admit... wrote on Dec 8, 2007 8:33 AM:

" No, I humbly admit that I'm very educated. I also have a high IQ. However, I und erstand that God resists the proud and arrogant of this world. You must see your lowliness before a Holy God. God told the planets to align themselves just so, and they obeyed; He told the sea to come this far and no further, and it obeyed; He tells you to COME, and you say, "NO." Repent and Believe! "

to: think with me wrote on Dec 8, 2007 8:15 AM:

" okay, if "creation" is absolutely necessary for phenomena to exist, then what created the creator? c'mon, i'm using YOUR logic here. also, if there is no creator for the creator, apparently there's no absolute necessity for a creator, as the "creator" wasn't even created himself. just because you don't like to hear it doesn't mean your philosophy doesn't have holes like swiss cheese. there's really no wonder why the most intelligent are usually far from your everyday christian. "

EVERYONE wrote on Dec 8, 2007 8:15 AM:

" Can we just get along?? In the spirit of the holidays let's start a new post. Who is your favorite fictional character?? Mine is a tie between God and Jesus. "

This again???? wrote on Dec 8, 2007 7:39 AM:

" Why not offer the prayer/moment of silence but allow people to opt out if they don't want to participate...no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Also, I highly doubt a minute out of the day is going to eat up all our taxpayer dollars. Personally, I'm sick of seeing everyone crying about this. Why not try to find a solution/compromise for the problem rather than trying to argue your own narrow-minded insights. We all have the right to believe what we want to believe. If you aren't allowing prayer then you are offending someone, if you do allow prayer you are offending others. It's never going to work w/o some sacrifices on both ends. "

to Think with me wrote on Dec 7, 2007 10:11 PM:

" Nice simple reasoning for a nice simple person. Let me guess, you're not a scientist? "

God wrote on Dec 7, 2007 10:10 PM:

" is nothing more than rhino poop. "

Think with me wrote on Dec 7, 2007 7:58 PM:

" Some of you seem to think NOBODY X'S NOTHING = EVERYTHING. Uhm, let's use our God-given intellect for a minute. Now remember, there is a creation, therefore there must be a Creator. "

Athiest Teen wrote on Dec 7, 2007 7:34 PM:

" I attend school, and I go there to learn, not to be forced to be silent so others may pray and/or have a "silent reflection". Recently, in class we had a debate about this topic and everyone who voted "for" this law, confessed that they don't even take that time to "pray or have a silent reflection". I am not a Christian, nor do I believe in God, and I strongly think that this law violates everyones 'Freedom of Religion' right. If all you Christians like Paul take the time to think about this, maybe you will learn to accept and be respectful of another's religion. Since this topic has become such a debate, why not simply just change the law to "Silent Reflection", and leave out the unneeded "prayer". I think you all who are for this law, need to come to grips with the fact that not everyone has the same beliefs as you. "

to GodStrong wrote on Dec 7, 2007 6:00 PM:

" I'm curious. Prior to the Moment of Prayer, when was a Christian forbidden to pray?? "

I don't understand wrote on Dec 7, 2007 4:49 PM:

" Isn't it the case that anybody can pray anywhere they want to? Why do Christians feel they "can't" pray? Who is stopping them? Why do Christians want a teacher to lead the class in prayer? Can't they do it themselves? "

Question? wrote on Dec 7, 2007 4:36 PM:

" What is it with people that take it upon themselves to force their own religious beliefs and practices on everybody else? What makes your religion better than mine? How do you know yours it the right one? What makes you think you have the right to make my child follow your religious practices when we have our own that's working just fine for us? And when did God step aside and ask you to fill in for him? "

To:mother of 2 wrote on Dec 7, 2007 4:17 PM:

" If you could explain to me how nothing blew up and made everything, that would be great. God is not only human but he is I AM. Always been there...always will be. In the meanwhile if you are having trouble figuring all this out maybe you could consuly your great great great great great great etc... grandpa the rock to help you. I'll check the bible that although you might not believe in it. Is historically perfect, scientifically perfect. and bottom line 100% true. I will pray for you. (maybe at school?) "

To: The Law is the Law wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:45 PM:

" I have no idea if you are being entirely sarcastic and if I should be laughing, or if you are being serious and I should be feeling repulsed by your comment. Please tell me its the first one, because I just can't stand the thought of someone so egotistical and overzealous and spouting off just the most ridiculously vile ideas living in the same area as myself. Why would only the government employees have to abide by your communist laws? And how far down the government employee ladder are we talking? The people that make the laws, AND the people that bring them their coffee? "

Tim N. wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:43 PM:

" to:He is a God of Mercy: and you know what? if my mom had aborted me it would have been her choice, because it is her body. "

Tim N. to: He is a God of Mercy wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:40 PM:

" wow, last i checked, my parents created me, and sure i am thankful to god for my life, but i don't need special time in class to be. and i hope they take "under god" out of the pledge soon, because as much as i believe in god, what if we're not under him? and what if he doesn't believe in the united states? "

He is a God of Mercy wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:30 PM:

" It is so wonderful that God is a God of Mercy. I would not be able to read the stupid comments some of you made. He formed you in your mothers womb, did not allow her to abort you, and still gave you life with his breath. You better wake up and repent before it is everlasting too late. "

Tim N. wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:29 PM:

" Okay, I'm down with god, i'm down with jesus. theyve got some cool ideas. but i take my time to talk with god and jesus OUTSIDE the classroom. theres no need to structure a prayer time in the middle of my class. i have plenty of time for god before or after school, and i don't really need him in the middle of my Psychology class anyway. "

Lizzy wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:28 PM:

" To The Law is the Law - Yes, God is on our money. Yes, God's name is on some of our government buildings. The government is not perfect - mistakes are made. I'm glad more mistakes aren't piled on top of the ones already in place regarding this topic. "

Mother of 2 wrote on Dec 7, 2007 2:04 PM:

" Yes! It is far easier to contemplate dirt particles just appearing than it is to believe a human being, let alone and magical, all-knowing, powerful human being just came out of nowhere. "

Santa Claus wrote on Dec 7, 2007 1:58 PM:

" is the reason for the season!! Go Santa!! Boo Jesus!! "

To Godstrong wrote on Dec 7, 2007 1:45 PM:

" You are way out in left field. Pray some play other than school. There are 24 hours in a day, kids spend 8 hours there. That leaves 16 hours plus Saturday and Sunday, pray in that time, keep it out of school. If you don't like that homeschool your kids and make them ignorant social outcasts. Or put them in private schools. All you Christians want everyone to feel sorry for them. Ah, poor little Christian, everyone trying to hold you back. As kids get smarter and learn to think for themselves, Christianity will continue to decline. Plus I know kids that want to have a beer at school, why can't they enjoy a beer at school?? Isn't this a free country?? "

The Law is the Law- Part II wrote on Dec 7, 2007 1:18 PM:

" I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Easter and I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas and Easter as well as Sundays. I'm thinking that a lot of my tax payer dollars could be saved, if all government offices and services would work on Christmas and Easter. It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be 'politically correct.' In fact.... I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set aside for worshiping God...) because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day.... "

THE LAW IS THE LAW - Part I wrote on Dec 7, 2007 1:18 PM:

" So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words 'under God' to be on our money, and if that same government decides that the 'Ten Commandments' are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it. I say, 'so be it,' because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen and because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions. I would like to think that those people have the American public's best interests at heart. BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE? Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot post His Commandments in Government buildings, I don't believe the Government and its employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life. "

To: Mother of 2 wrote on Dec 7, 2007 1:04 PM:

" So, it's easier to believe that dirt just appeared than having a Creator just appear to create the dirt. True, dirt is much less complicated than a Creator, but then we must consider intelligent design. But, if science has determined where dirt came from please fill me in. Then, if we can figure out how to stop the process, I can save on housecleaning bills. "

To Eastview wrote on Dec 7, 2007 12:54 PM:

" Isn't this all about prayer in schools and not about Eastview? "

GodStrong wrote on Dec 7, 2007 12:48 PM:

" (Cont.) This country is in need of prayer, and if we keep pushing away the one thing that will save us (God) I am not going to even say it. Why is believing in God is so wrong now? Was this country not founded on God? And if we are free why are Christians be judged and having our freedoms taken away? I don't want to make anyone do anything they don't want to do and I will not stand by and let my rights be taken away because I believe in something that others don't believe in. There is a population of India beliefs, and no one is asking that anything be taken away from them. So why pick on Christians? A Mormon is running for president, are people going to judge him because of his beliefs? Are we truly a free country? Do we really want the government running our school system, and telling us what our children should and should not learn? "

GodStrong wrote on Dec 7, 2007 12:48 PM:

" To: Paul from Streator I agree with you... I started to read some of these comments but didn't want to finish them. Our country was founded on the same beliefs that we share, and now kids can't take a moment of silence? What next? We are a free country; we fight for that freedom, why can kids go to school and not be able to pray if they want to? Who ever said prayer was mandatory? If a student wants to have a prayer group why is it any different then the chess club, or more diverse racial clubs? So now they can't even take a moment of silence in our country that is free? What is being free then? It should be where every different racial and religious group can live in harmony. So that if a student wants to take a moment of silence, or another wants to plead allegiance to the flag that represents our country, or if they want to go to a club that is geared toward a specific race they all should be allowed to do that. (Cont.) "

Mother of 2 wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:40 AM:

" The world (and EVERY living thing) came from evolution. Dirt into this into that until, voila, you and me. It really is just simple science. Really. "

lexington minutemen wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:39 AM:

" CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? "

Townie wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:36 AM:

" To RE: To Huge Misconception ...you know why the bibles are in hotel rooms?? It's the Gideons...not the Catholics or the Presbyterians. Matter of fact, do you know any Gideons? I ONLY know them as a group that puts bibles in hotel rooms. Also, how does that prove Christianity and God is a real thing? What if all the bibles were replaced with Harry Potter books, would that make Harry Potter truth and gospel? You've got a weird, weird nonsensical point, buddy... "

Seriously? wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:30 AM:

" Man. Pantagraph...quit publishing this stuff...it annoys the entire town and all we do is fight. As for Paul from Streator...how do you compare praying in school with killing children through abortion? They're not comparable. Just chill out and remember that there's a separation between church AND state...it says so in your Constitution... Church is church and the school belongs to the state. "

To Eastview wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:24 AM:

" It's people like YOU who talk about things you obviously know nothing about. This church is in it's second year of engaging in the community where no child or family should go cold, hungry or without a gift during this Christmas season. The congregation of the church has donated over 1500 coats and 2500 toys and will donate over 1500 food boxes to be distributed to those people who come on December 15. Eastview is not a greedy church in fact, to the contrary, it gives back to this community two fold. There is no perfect person in this world and for you to judge cars in their parking lot or their intentions is out of line. This is far from a country club for Bloomington's richest... it is taking a proactive role in giving back to those less fortunate. What are YOU doing? Take the log out of your own eye before you take the spec from someone elses. You might give a church a try sometime - maybe you would be surprised. I pray for your attitude because no one should be this negative or miserable. "

to For Ms. Shocked wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:09 AM:

" Logical fallacy: Appeal to authority. Einstein also married his cousin. Should I do the same?? Einstein and Newton, while great minds, are not the end-all of authority on any subject. If we were to hold them in that regard, then they would be gods and any rational person doubts the existence of those. "

to: so and to:so wrote on Dec 7, 2007 11:03 AM:

" Me too!! Baptist church every sunday til I was 18...I bought into it for a while cuz you know I was a child and children are allowed to believe in fairytales right?? Now...not so much. Silly christians! "

My Brain Hurts wrote on Dec 7, 2007 9:30 AM:

" This is more complicated than calculus! "

to to sadistic commentor wrote on Dec 7, 2007 8:28 AM:

" I don't think mr. Sadistic is afraid of a mythical being. Neither am I. I look forward to rotting in the ground with you after we both die. "

to Truth wrote on Dec 7, 2007 8:26 AM:

" Isn't that convienient? An uncreated Creator. You can believe that, but you won't accept science. Its sad that your kind represents 25% of the country and that you would love to take all of us to a new Dark Ages. "

For Ms. Shocked wrote on Dec 7, 2007 8:24 AM:

" How do you think the world came into existence? I have news for you... nothing can't create anything. The greatest human minds of all time (Einstien, Newton, ...) agree there must be a creator. Nothing from nothing... I really don't think that is possible! Come on, really??? "

to: mother of 2 wrote on Dec 7, 2007 8:20 AM:

" apparently, adults need fairy tales just as much as children do. in fact, likely moreso. strange to consider, that as we age, we actually regress into complete denial and escapism, under the guise of things like "religion" and "politics" and so-on, never actually attending to "what is, as it is". know what i mean? "

to: truth wrote on Dec 7, 2007 8:18 AM:

" well, then, following your line of logic, it must now be possible for a being that is 100% man, as myself, to also be 100% god or deity, right? so why, if i'm essentially no different than the anointed one, do i need him and him only to be a mediator? your own religion has "proven" the possibility for a complete human to also be a complete deity, to be "one with god" on the basis of his simply existing as human. so, i think i'll go do that, and not bother myself with all this groupthink that YOU'VE proven is completely unnecessary. you said it, i can be 100% god too. why not? "

Mother of 2 wrote on Dec 7, 2007 8:07 AM:

" I honestly am shocked that anyone STILL believes the whole "uncreated Creator" nonsense. Come on! Really?? "

To: didn't suffer? wrote on Dec 7, 2007 7:03 AM:

" People have suffered a lot more than he ever did for a lot less. They don't have religions named after them. Plus, like I said, he was supposedly God's son. If that's true, how tough would it really be? And it is important to note that he did not suffer more than any other criminal they crucified in those times. The Passion of the Christ is, of course, a sensationalized account of what happened. Is it really necessary for me to explain to you how Hollywood makes it's money? "

Truth wrote on Dec 6, 2007 9:01 PM:

" God is the uncreated Creator; he has always been. God is outside of time; he is the creator of time. Jesus has two natures; he is 100% God... and 100% man, therefore He can be the mediator between God and man. "

to sadistic commentor wrote on Dec 6, 2007 4:48 PM:

" Do you realize what you just did? You blasphemed the Holy Lord of the universe. I wouldn't want to be within 500 miles of you on Judgment Day. You obviously have no fear of the Lord. Pray to God for mercy and forgiveness. "

To: Didn't suffer? wrote on Dec 6, 2007 3:20 PM:

" Now there sounds like a son who had every right to revolt against his father, who, with a twitch of his nose (or was that Samantha?), could have changed the entire dynamics and eliminated not just his suffering, but that of all of mankind. Sounds like a sadistic bastard to me. "