Pantagraph.com | News | Opponents Vow to Re-Light Debate on Smoking Ban

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

free wrote on Feb 26, 2008 5:54 PM:

" It is very simple...the law is to protect the employees who work in the establishments. The owners had a choice and chose to ignore it. Now the employees can work in a safer environment. Thank you. "

LightningBoy wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:52 AM:

" The Health Code argument is a straw man.
Health codes are designed to protect the public from unseen hazards where the public is prohibited to venture on the property.
ETS is clearly visible,(especially if there is a sign on the door stating "Smoking Permitted", so simply turn around and go somewhere that meets your personal preference. Preferrably someplace that has a sign on the door stating "No Smoking". Those places are smoke free specifically because they want your non-smoking personal preference to be satisfied. You should make every effort to support them rather than force businesses that are focused on the personal preference of another group to cater to you as a minority in that particular setting. This really isn't that difficult a concept to grasp.
Places where smoking is allowed are simply trying to accomodate the personal preference of those customers as well. This really isn't that hard to understand.
Non-smokers don't have to go anywhere that they would be uncomfortable, but the most militant among them seem bent on eliminating all free-market choice and forcing smokers to be uncomfortable everywhere. It's a ham-handed attempt at social engineering, and a clear cut assault on private property rights. "

To uh hey claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:22 PM:

" Then please share this proof of shs being so bad with us. Not some false junk from a lobbyist group either. "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:19 PM:

" TO to; Then lets talk about your auto then. It has 10 times more pollution coming out it's tailpipe than a cig. so do you want to ban them also?If what your saying is true and you really want clean air then when are you and your socialist sisters going to try and get them banned? Do you know why the steel mills started leaving in the 70's? "

Oh Claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:16 PM:

" Debating you is like telling a child that too much sugar is a bad thing. They just don't get it because they are lacking a complete awareness of the world we live in. You see, "bar owner rights" is an argument that has failed time and time again. Bar owners have had to deal with laws and regulations for years and years. Laws and regulations are not new concepts. Perhaps each bar owner should be able to establish their own drinking age. Or, perhaps they should be able to turn away females and minorities, serving only white males. Come on, you know, these laws and regulations are silly, all of them. Lets put some asbestos in a local bar while we are at it, you know, because that ole asbestos law is a bunch of rules supported by junk science. There is a reason that people like you are not in a position to make decisions for the many. And it is because your awareness of the world we live in fits safely in a thimble. "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:13 PM:

" Claude ; I'm not a smoker but my job takes me to bars every day and i talk to bar owners. I remember when they started the ban in bloom. and all the non smokers said they would start going to the bars and that was a lie since they never did.Then to find out over half the people at the city council meeting were from out of town or belonged to these socialist groups destroying america. They have no intention of going to the bars and if they did they would have opened up a non smoking bar and made a killing according to them but they never. "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:03 PM:

" TO to; or whoever the gutless coward is that can't get a handle.I see their is no getting thru to you socialists but please learn some history and your socialist nonsense would have been great in germany say the 1930's it doesn't work here in america were we love our freedom and choices.I know you will have to go get your socialism playbook for this but just answer this question.Why did no one open up a smoke free bar? Why do you hate america and choices that adults can make for themselves?Do you want a nanny state? "

claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:56 PM:

" And i certainly hope u pro-ban few that run these groups (the few that r posting here, very few) continue to display those same personality traits u have been. Makes my work a lot easier. Youve lost a lot of support since the bans and that will continue. U lost the support due to your charming mentality. Notice the lack of avg Joes posting here in support of u? I sure notice it. ;-) "

claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:52 PM:

" " Do you want to know why the pro-ban movement was successful?"

I already know. A combination of junk science, easily disproven, fradulent telephone surveys, hoodwinking people into believing your garbage, campaign contributions from the tobacco fund settlement that u received and then turned back to politicians. I could go on more but u know what u really r just as i do. See, im the one who really gets it. The beauty is that others who were easily falsly impressed r starting to get it too. More and more everyday. I have u pegged. Thats y i dont see much of an argument as to my view who is really posting here. Theres just a couple of u and youre the ones making money pushing these things. U really dont have much support. Just funded activists. Like i said b4, hey... u wouldnt be here if u were so sure of yourself. Bans will be chipped away at until they r gone. "

claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:44 PM:

" I think some of u pro-banners r sadly mistaken. If u were so sure it wouldnt be going away, u wouldnt be here. Im not seeing the avg joe posting here in support of bans anymore. The few of of u ive seen here lately r ranking members salaried by pro-ban forces. Thats it. You simply email or IM each other and come in here at the same time, in addition to using multiple names. I recognize the personalities. One of u inparticular weve already dealt with when they tried posting on one of our forums. Cant mistake that charming personality. See, let me clue u in to a couple of things...1. It isnt up to u whether a ban stays or goes....2. They r already considering exemptions after just a month. Its gonna get worse....3. The avg Joe isnt even slightly interested in smoking bans one way or the other....4. It isnt about smokers vs nonsmokers. Its about private business owners rights. I couldnt care less if an owner of a bar wanted to be smoke free on his own.... 5. Dont u realize how disturbed u appear when it comes to your view of your fellow citizens? "

Uh, hey Claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:41 PM:

" You mention "your area" several times. Is "your area" a place called pretend land? The reason I ask, is that it seems you smoke lovers exist in some sort of 4th dimension, where common sense has been sucked out of existence. Do you want to know why the pro-ban movement was successful? Here you go, the secret is revealed: they were able to articulate a clear message that was wrapped in common sense. The message is this "there is too much of a known risk associated with second hand smoke to continue to allow employees and patrons to be unnecessarily exposed to second hand smoke. Lucky for you smoke lovers, they stopped there. You can still poison your own lungs or the lungs of your friends and family while you are in your own cars or homes. I hope this helps. However, if you still don't get it, I completely understand. Again, we all know you smoke lovers exist in a 4th dimension where common sense has been sucked out of existence. "

clean air wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:28 PM:

" This is not about auto emissions, perfume, fireplaces or bad breath. Here and in Florida its about the workers in the establishments. Owners were pushed for years to clean up the air and they did nothing and laughed about it. Over 80% of the voters in Fla. cleaned up the air. Statewide meetings were held in Illinois and they laughed at them. This is it, its here and its not going away. Non smokers have reason, respect, facts and responsibility on their side. What does the other side have, we're addicted to a narcotic that has been linked to cancer for over 40 years. Elvis has left the building on this one. "

LOL wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:27 PM:

" Does anyone else love that smoke lovers are getting their hopes up that the ban will be overturned? LOL - I hope they think this for a long long time. (I am whispering now so that smokers can't hear me) this ban will never ever ever ever be overturned. (OK done whispering) But again, I hope smoke lovers continue cry cry cry about this ban needing to be overturned. I am sorry, but I get a kick out of reading the ridiculously ignorant smoke lover posts. Watching smoke lovers cry about this ban and make fools of themselves in their posts has been pure enjoyment. "

claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:42 PM:

" Freedom.... in my area we have smoker rights members register for these pro-ban groups and even show up at their meetings. The idea was to learn their tactics. Its best to know exactly who the opponent really is so u know what youre really dealing with. They r taught to believe that those who oppose them only do so because they r addicts. Smokers r portrayed as drug addicts at their meetings. Also in my area as in others.... when time comes to vote at a newspaper for articles of the year, or when a news story or opinion letter is published, an email is sent out by these pro-ban groups to the members who have signed up urging them to vote over and over and post on the articles. Its easy to tell them apart from your average schelp who might think these bans r a good idea. Its obvious on here who is who. Its actually hilarious to see the juvenile mentality out of many of them. I see more adult like comments made by 12 yr olds than your everyday anti-smoker. "

to: freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:24 PM:

" Hi Freedom, I am typing real slow for you, so that you can follow. Some times, in grown up world, there are environmental and/or public safety issues that outweigh personal freedoms. I will provide examples. Example #1 is CO2 emissions. While it would be in the spirit of freedom to allow companies to have no limits, it makes more sense to impose limits when you consider to impact to the environment and related health impacts. Another example is asbestos. While it would be in the spirit of freedom to allow companies and schools to install asbestos, it makes more sense to ban it when you consider the associated health risks. You see, when it comes to laws and regulation, there are two sides in the equation. One side is personal freedom and the other is cost to the public (environmental, health and social costs). You don't have to be a "genius" to comprehend this stuff. "

FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:17 PM:

" A poster wrote to me; “You won't be laughing when your taxes go up". I sure will be laughing, because YOU will be paying them right along with me. Luckily, I am in an economic situation where I can afford it. Unfortunately, some people will suffer, but at least it will not be from second hand smoke. Some people said the economy would go bust when slavery was repealed, but it didn't. I equate smoking with slavery and I am trying to get rid of it (and succeeding). Someday smoking will be banned in all public places (even outdoors). Then we can say "Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty, we are free at last. Until them, please step outside and move 15 feet away, thank you. "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 6:50 PM:

" Claude i don't know about you but it is becoming clear that it is probably one or two socialists responding since they are too cowardly to get a handle. "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 6:25 PM:

" Thats all you have is the spelling??Thats what i thought ! This just proves that you still have no clue. I'll help you since you seem slow..i don't smoke. I believe in america and do not like socialists or communists and i still haven't figured out which group you fit into but it is a clueless bunch that march to the orders from idiots that hate america. Keep taking choices away and when you lemmings can't even burn leaves or use your fireplace then it will dawn on you. Well maybe not since you cannot think for yourselves and you have proven to just be a bunch of whining , crying babies that hate america. "

To FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 6:18 PM:

" Spoken like a true socialist. You have taken away someone elses choice and you are proud of it.Hitler loved people like you and it's sad that your lemmings are too dumb to figure it out. Only when they have no choice will it dawn on them but it will be to late. "

To: Lightning Boy wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:59 PM:

" You make absolutely no sense in your post. I sure have enjoyed watching you congratulate yourself in subsequent posts though. You do realize that there are laws that govern our actions as private citizens and as private business owners - don't you? I certainly hope this is not new news to you. For example, a bar owner has to comply with fire codes, building codes, licensing requirements, state and federal laws applying to the sale of food & alcohol. The smoking ban is no different than any of these other laws that I have mentioned. So should we get rid of all these laws. Perhaps the 1st law that we should all break is the silly law banning the use of asbestos. Come on man, for the sake of freedom, let's install some asbestos in your bar or home. Your logic sounds kind of silly now doesn't it. No need to thank me for pointing this out. I do it because I love it. "

to: Freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:49 PM:

" What is a "genious" (re: your post post @ 6:33 on 2/24/08)? Did you mean "genius"? Also, nice job of comparing law breaking bar owners to American heroes (re: Boston tea Party) that risked life and limb for their country. Yeah, you make total sense (insert sarcastic grin). Do you smokers wonder why you always lose these debates? Perhaps because of flawed logic used in the above comparison. Thanks for the laughs. "

middle of the road dude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:45 PM:

" My biggest question is what are you going to blame for the steadily increasing cancer rates. When you find that they do not change signifigantly. now that your ban is in place? you will soon see that the SHS exposure that you where told is the reason you and your kids are getting sick and or dieing of cancer. is in fact not the reason. "

claude wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:25 PM:

" If u think the ALA sending out phone messages is bad... Everytime a story appears on this topic an email is sent out to every member registered to antismoker smoking ban groups to get them to post on here. I see it here as well. One of the tactics these "antis" r taught to believe is that if u r opposed to a smoking ban, it must be because u smoke and its your addiction speaking for u. Yes, these nuts actually r told to believe this, and they take it in hook line and sinker. The post below by "Life is Good" illistrates that perfectly. U can find normal people who support or dotn support smoking bans for various reasons, but its when the pro-ban groups email their members and ask them to post here... thats when the true nuts show up here. "

Jude: to JWO wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:23 PM:

" Here kitty kitty kitty. Where are you? You weren' at Mustang Sally's over the weekend. That's okay, we didn't miss you. Now tuck your tail and Mommy will poor you a saucer of milk and tuck you in for your big weekend coming up. Ha-ha-ha-ha I think there is a liaar amongst us. "

To: FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:13 PM:

" Are you sure it will never be repealed? After all, politicians are starting to push for exemptions for casinos and such. How long will it be till a food establishment that is seeing a serious decline in revenue after the ban also pushes for exemptions? Face it, the ban was done very much on the sly, and now the public is ringing in. The proponents of this ban were a very vocal minority who did alot of lobbying behind closed doors. Now the majority is going full speed ahead to get this stupid ban off the books. All it takes is to vote a couple of idiots who supported the ban out of office, and see how quickly the votes change. "

to FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 4:28 PM:

" I still want to know what the big deal is? so now your free of one poison while you pour the second one down your throat. the only thing that bothers me are you criminals on MY road after your done poisoning yourselves. hey if its YOUR air then its MY road "

TO FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 3:31 PM:

" You won't be laughing when your taxes go up. And that is just around the corner. Non-smokers are not making up for the losses being suffered, especially at the casinos. Congratulations! You won!! Now your taxes will go up while you breathe your fresh air. Hope it was worth it. "

Jason Nesmith (from Galaxy Quest) to FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 3:21 PM:

" NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER! "

FOAF wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:53 PM:

" I'm laughing at his new moniker of Whippinboy (or whatever), but his message is the same. It doesn't matter. We still won. We have smoke free bars. It was interesting that a pro smoker recognized that the reason the law passed was that we worked for it. Now they want to work to have it repealed. It will never happen, but I want them to try so they can feel the defeat all over again. BTW, I full support the concept of Just Walk Out. It epitomizes that we all have a choice. "

MR.D wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:23 PM:

" hey banners. why should we give up? You didn't and it worked . So we will take a lesson from all of you and not quit, freedom of choice WILL be back!
btw that does not mean freedom from choice! just so u know "

to LightningBoy wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:18 PM:

" well put! had i been able to say it better i would have. "

Life is Good Re: to lightningboy wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:12 PM:

" Wow.....halleluyah. You are right, business aren't "public", but "private". The thing you are not thinking through is that they are governed by the laws of the land because they "serve" the "public". You all are just in denial....it is very clear to see from every pro-smoking post. Addiction is a terrible thing....it affects ones thinking a great deal. All your excuses are just that....excuses. It's the law, it's not going away....it will soon be not only in 20 odd states, but all across the country....then what will you do???? I know....move out of country for your smoking habit....now, that's logical isn't it???? Enuf said. "

To: LightningBoy wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:36 PM:

" Of all the posts I've read regarding this ban, both pro and con, over the past year, yours is the ONLY one that "hit the nail on the head"!!! It says it all and I couldn't agree more! "

humpf wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:34 PM:

" Just heard on your local radio the ALA sent an automated phone message to all the government people who were voting - the phones were so plugged up by their automated messages no one else could get through. How SLIMEY is that! The person being interviewed advocated calling and emailing your reps and senators when you don't like something - don't be afraid to do it. "

Pants wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:37 PM:

" The issue isn't even the bars. A report released today stated that casinos have lost an average of 15% and that comparing numbers to December of 2007. Do you know how much our taxes would have to go up to replace that? These people who were all for the ban apparently did the same amount of thinking that our moron politicans did......NONE!!! "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:25 PM:

" To; just spoke with; Of course JWO is a fraud. Has he ever mentioned the names of these bars that he JWO of? Of course not because then someone could verify it and prove whether it was true or not so just let him think he is making a difference when we all know he is a liar and a fraud. "

TO Pants wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:15 PM:

" I hope your right but i watched sen. brady say on t.v if they give out exemptions it would not be a level playing field so they know the ban is hurting everyone . When springfield started their ban 22 bars closed in a year because of it so they know it hurts business. "

Pants wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:07 PM:

" To LightningBoy: I couldn't have said it better myself. "

freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:06 PM:

" To JD; you misunderstood my post . I agree with everything you said. I know people that jogged 3 miles a day that died from lung cancer and fat people that live to 80. The stats don't prove anything other than the fact smoking is going down but death is going up so this just proves that smoking is not the cause. "

I should have started smoking! wrote on Feb 25, 2008 11:34 AM:

" From Mikey_Z: "i have copd/emphysma...along with congestive heart failure etc...but i am a smoker and will continue til i take the dirt nap if you have to walk on egg shells to live then you are not living.." OMG! This is the best reason to smoke I've ever read! Good job! I never realized that the only way to live was to smoke until I contracted every smoking related disease there was! How stupid of me to think I could enjoy life and be healthy too! Thanks for setting me straight, Mikey! "

smokie wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:55 AM:

" I am a smoker and on January 1 my New Years resolution was to do all my eating at home.I now have more money for Cigarettes and watch more movies and spend more time cooking for my self.Great savings eating out is way over priced and takes up to much of my valuable time.I do not drink so that never was a issue.I never had a need to cry on another drunks shoulder or flirt with another guys wife. "

LightningBoy wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:45 AM:

" It's really not so much about the owners choice than it is the non-smokers inability to make a good choice for themselves. If smoking is allowed, don't go there.
It's an easy choice to make. Try it, you might actually enjoy thinking for yourself.
Smoking is a personal preference, so try seeking out establishments that actually want your non-smoking business instead of forcing a Smoking oriented business to cater to you when that's clearly not what the owner has designed the business to do. You don't have to like smoking to display some common sense.
Bars and Restaurants are NOT "Public Places". The "Public" doesn't own them, and they remain Private property despite the Anti-Tobacco socialist movement to force it to be so. Your'e throwing away your freedom by trampling on someone elses.
Take a deep breath (in a bar or restaurant) and unless you keel over dead inside 30 minutes, you really should reconsider your shortsighted definition of freedom because whether you realize it or not, and clearly ban supporters don't....
your giving it away.
"

TO: GEEZ From Gov't Opp. Mule wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:06 AM:

" THANK you for proving your socialist agenda is an attempt to destroy the American beliefs. I couldn't believe you actually wrote "Voting is a privilege not a right." VOTING IS NOT A RIGHT?!?!?! What next freedom of religion is a pivilege? GET OUT OF AMERICA IF YOUR SOCIALIST AGENDA DOESN'T SUPPORT VOTING! "

Pants wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:04 AM:

" The casino numbers were released today. It won't be long until an exception is granted. Money is the bottom line and I don't think all of you non-smokers would like a $500 a month increase in your taxes. Next time I hope you will think something through before you start crying. "

mikey_z wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:05 AM:

" it doesnt take more than 30 days to see the revenue lost..so phil your wrong...and to jwo and any supporters of his..please continue to walk out...you obviously think your hurting the buisnesses which im sure some smoker will take your place in whatever establishment...you non smokers think that the bars will dye off without you.. thats as far from reality as you can be..smokers and people who may enjoy the company of smokers(non-smokers) have been the bars and restaurants biggest financial supporters throughout the ages..non smokers are killing the economy...wisen up "

mikey_z wrote on Feb 25, 2008 6:44 AM:

" perfumes are a bigger threat to others lungs wheres the ban on them..i have copd/emphysma...along with congestive heart failure etc...but i am a smoker and will continue til i take the dirt nap if you have to walk on egg shells to live then you are not living...as far as the bars and clubs they could of said non smokers open your own place where you wont be affected by second hand smoke...in the work place i can live with the ban...but the loss of revenue us dirty stinking smokers have dealt to this state cant be argued with..smoking in bars creates alot of tax money..ie alcohol sales and yes even more tobacco sales tax "

to deal with it wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:56 AM:

" I agree with you. You used the "economy" as a generalization, but for those that don't quite understand that, try letting them know that they should look at the fact that prices for just about everything has risen. ( Food, gas, utilities, in fact, the COMPLETE cost of living.) Many that used to be able to afford the luxury of sitting in a bar and buying one drink after another. Or going out for dinner 1 or 2 times a week, have come to the reality that those dollars that would have been spent on those activities, are now needed to be used to pay for one or more of the things listed above. After all, for many ppl, even though the prices have risen, their salaries have not. It's not just this area that is seeing a drop in revenue, it's the entire country. I believe there are more ppl, especially in these times, that need to live closer to a budget than ever before. It makes me wonder how smokers can afford their addiction. THAT is a very expensive habit. "

JD to Geez (cont) wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:02 AM:

" Also, a right is something protected by the Constitution (a document you really should read). No where in the Constitution does it protect your right to clean air. Your delusion that you are not only entitled to a right you do not have, but entitled to this imaginary right enough that you can demand others give up their freedoms for it, shows just how self centered and self important you feel you are. While you constantly attempt to blame smokers for all your woes in life, perhaps it is your lack of responsibility, or your lack of education, that seems to constantly lead you to make bad decisions. Quit try to blame everyone else. "

JD: to freedom wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:20 AM:

" While smoking may increase ones chances of ailment, it does mean that if you smoke you will get an ailment. Under your deluded and obviously spoon fed logic, all smokers should drop dead at the age of 30. Yet I personally know smokers who lived to be 100, and I have seen people who ate right and exercised drop dead at 35. You are just another victim of misinformation which has been intentionally spun in such a way as to deceive you as to reality in order to engender fear, and thus power, for interested parties. If places like the ALA and the ACA were not able to scare the ignorant into believe that these interested parties lead a 'righteous' fight, they would not be able to collect the millions of dollars they do each year. "

HD wrote on Feb 24, 2008 10:42 PM:

" I hear everyone keep saying stuff like "the owner should have the choice" but if thats the case, how come the owner cant choose what gender to allow in there, or what race to allow in there. Everyone thinks its ok when the government steps in to force them to not discriminate, but its not wok when they force them to have them not smoke!? LONG LIVE THE SMOKING BAN! "

Just spoke with wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:33 PM:

" the owner of "that nasty, disgusting" bowling place in LeRoy. JWO hasn't been there and the weekend is up. I also have another news flash for you. They don't allow smoking in the bar or bowling alley. I don't know where you get your information, but it's wrong. JWO is blowing smoke again. Why don't you post your name if you think your such a big shot. Gutless, that's why. So go crawl in your little hole and stay there for a change. "

Just Walked Out Fan wrote on Feb 24, 2008 7:32 PM:

" I have to admit, the person/persons that came up with the Just Walk Out concept have done a great job of hitting law breaking bar owners where it hurts the most. I have not done it yet, but I think I might give it a try. We might go to LeRoy to bowl just to see if they are in fact still allowing smoking there. if they are, I will certainly bring it to the attention of the manager/owner and ask them to enforce the law. if they don't do anything about it, then I will call the number that we are supposed to call if we find a bar violating the law. I think I will give the owner a second chance at that point to comply. If they don't, then I will walk out on by bill. I will let you know how it goes. "

freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 6:44 PM:

" To deal with it; you are exactly right and we are already in a recession and it has nothing to do with a smoking ban. I talk to bar owners daily and it doesn't matter if they enforce the ban or not they are all losing money except the bars that have college kids going to them.Some that enforce the ban have seen an increase while some have seen a decrease but it all equals out and sales are down. It's these socialist morons that are destroying this country. "

Friend of friends wrote on Feb 24, 2008 6:38 PM:

"
But no worries ,I live knowing that I am not a hypocrit, your(auto emmisions) pollution poses a greater danger to all life, not just some alcoholic or fattie...
But I can tell you I have more money I weight less and I'm happer not being around all of you non-smokers. I also have a great time with all my smoking friends playing poker and dice without contributing to your tax base and I am also enjoying watching all these companys close down and your taxes going through the roof.... Ha ha ha We smokers have the last laugh after all.... As we told you so.
"

freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 6:33 PM:

" Are you 10 years old? Smoking is a habit and it kills?? Say it isn't so? What makes you think i smoke genious? My job takes me to bars all over central ill. so i talk to bar owners daily and i feel for them since they are having their business intruded on by the gov.You just don't get it and their is no doubt in my mind that if you would have been at the boston tea party you would have been on the sideline screaming'' i'm going to tell the king on you'' but thank god we didn't have all cowards like you or morally bankrupt idiots that think stealing is okay and justify it with this nonsense. After talking with all the bar owners though not ONE has heard of anyone JWO so i know he is hiding behind the net acting like he is really doing something when he is not . Keep the lies coming though since your cheap entertainment. "

TO Gary.k wrote on Feb 24, 2008 6:10 PM:

" Thanks for helping us make our point. Just curious though does it say how many non smokers died from heart disease or lung cancer since i know a few that have died from that and never smoked?I still wait for someone to show proof that SHS has caused anyone to die. The mayo clinic hasn't but you would think that reading some of these posts.All these stats prove is that smoking is going down but deaths are up and their is no proof that it comes from SHS. Being overweight is the biggest cause of heart disease and i know alot of welders that never smoked and died from lung cancer so maybe you can clear up these stats for us. "

Re: Just Walk Out wrote on Feb 24, 2008 5:47 PM:

" I see and smell a liar and a coward. "

FOAF wrote on Feb 24, 2008 5:44 PM:

" There is no need to call the police if someone violates the smoking laws. Just walking out is a good solution. It gets you away from the harmful second hand smoke. It lets the owner know you will not tolerate illegal smoking and you get a free meal. A bonus is that it irritates the rubes who think you are stealing. I have never been confronted with the situation, but you can be sure if I am, I will walk out too and by golly, I will announce it on my way out. So go ahead light up. I think there are enough people who are fed up with smokers who will walk out. I like the fact that it enrages smokers and they are powerless to stop it. Hats off to Just Walk Out. "

To: Freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 5:44 PM:

" Oh, and by the way, you don't get it (LOL). You are not even smart enough to realize that smoking is a habit that kills. (LOL) my 8 year old is smart enough to realize this (LOL) and you are not. By the way, I would not mind if laws were passed to improve the lives of the obese. I am not obese myself as I run, work out and eat right.....oh, and I do not smoker either. You just don't get it do you? (LOL). "

deal with it wrote on Feb 24, 2008 5:40 PM:

" It is not the smoking ban causing a decrease in business. Look at the economy, how many factories, etc are closing or laying off their employees in general. If you have lost a job or if your company is making cuts you will have less to spend and not be able to go out as much so therefore, business will decline. Have you ever seen someone die of lung cancer? Gasping for their last breath, getting worn out with the slightest movement. It is actually nice being able to walk onto a riverboat and not be choked by all the smoke. "

To: Freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 5:38 PM:

" What reality do you subscribe to? The bar owners are the cowards. They should have the courage to tell the smokers that there is a new law and that smoking is not allowed in their establishment. I have been to a handful of rural bars and some are allowing smoking and some are not. Those owners that are allowing smokers to break the law are subsequently getting what they deserve by way of a few skipped bills. Until bar owners have the courage to step up and control the smokers, they will continue pay for my drinks and meals. The laws that the bar owners are breaking are no different than the law they would break if they decided to serve 18 year olds. Use your brain for once. "

Gary K. wrote on Feb 24, 2008 4:21 PM:

" For you smokers:

Health,United States,2006 (CDC)
Death rates for Lung Cancer/ per 100,000 population
1970 2004

37.1 53.2,
This is a 43% increase in lung cancer deaths,despite a 50% decrease in smoking rates!!

From the American Heart Assoc.
Hospital Discharges With Cardiovascular Disease as the First Listed Diagnosis
United States: 1979-2003
1969 = about 3,200,000

2003 = 6,434,000
When you correct for the increase in population over the years, the line doesn’t increase as rapidly, but still increases slightly.
It means that despite a 50% decrease in smoking rates, that the number of people developing heart disease hasn’t dropped at all. .

This is from the "American Lung Association".
COPD Age Adjusted Death Rates Population, 1979-2002
Age-Adjusted Death Rate per 100,000 Persons
1979 2002
24.2 42.0
Smoking has gone DOWN by almost 50% over the last 40 years, over the last 20 plus years the COPD death rate has GONE UP BY 74%.

Since smoking does not cause lung cancer,heart disease and emphysema, SHS is clearly not a health risk factor.

"

To Geez wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:55 PM:

" Last time I checked it is legal to praactice my right when I am smoking outdoors, fifteen feet from the door. What part of that don't you understand? "

freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:54 PM:

" Oh and yes i do get it, you smoking nazi's want to justify being a thief because you are too much of a coward to call the police.I guess this makes you morally higher than a rapist in your mind but it just proves your socialist mind doesn't belong in america and is bad for america. Reap what you sow and when they start in on fat people next i hope your one of them since diabetes is also bad for our health industry. "

freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:45 PM:

" No you pathetic JWO crowd will never be happy and thats obvious.Be brave for once in your life and find the courage to do the right thing by calling the police. I applaud the great men that stood up and formed this country just like i applaud the bar owners that are doing what they believe is right on how to run their business . It is you socialist cowards that give in to a man like hitler and everyone pays the price for your stupidity.By the way most rural bars are not enforcing it so hopefully that will give you something else to whine and cry about but be brave behind the internet and think you are really doing something about it. HAHAHAHA "

to: freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:11 PM:

" The real cowards are the bar owners. They should be telling the smokers that they can no longer smoke in the bar. If the bar owners could just toughen up on this issue, well, then we would all be happy. Until the owners do this, we (the JWO crowd) will continue to enjoy free drinks and meals on the bar owners pocket books. It is real simple, don't you get it? What is wrong with you? "

Geez! wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:59 PM:

" For the millionth time - IT IS NOT A RIGHT! It is a PRIVILEGE - just like driving, voting, drinking, etc. Geez! "

OGS - ATT: To The JWO Cult wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:16 PM:

" This just in. Restaurant owner sued for dram shop suburbia Chi-town. Seems a group of patrons attempted a walk out on their bill after a another patron lit up and the owner and two other patrons attacked them out in the parking lot with big sticks. Three of the walk out people got an assortment of broken noses, broken arms, and one suffered massive vision loss to one eye. Put the guy out of business. The attackers got an assortment of 3-5 years jail time. The walk out people got nothing but the injuries (and that glorious free meal) cause the owner was lapse on his insurance payment and was going bankrupt anyway due to the loss of business since the smoking ban. Unfortunately, the man didn't have a good marketing plan. Wow, that was some bad luck for all involved. Sure would be a shame to see that happen in Crudson or Gee-Roy. "

to: to: JWO wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:06 PM:

" Thanks for the laugh. How long will bars put up with allowing smokers to break the laws in their establishments? Will the smokers get what is coming to them? Will bar owners get what is coming to them? This is not a threat - lol. I will wear my "I am laughing at you" t - shirt the next time I am out in the hick towns for a free dinner. LOL - thanks again for the laugh! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL I hope I don't run into the wrong person - LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL "

freedom wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:37 AM:

" How sad and pathetic that these smoke nazi's justify theft over someone not enforcing the ban. Not only is it obvious that they are crying and taking their toys home with them , but they are proving what cowards they really are by not calling the police to help enforce their own doing. This is the 2nd time i've responded to these cowards , i wonder if this one will get posted.Their will be bar owners who will call these cowards out and then we will see what happens. "

Not a Smoker wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:39 AM:

" Not a smoker, but Kathy Drea doesn't know what she's talking about. With private places being impacted, this is not "very fair" to everyone. The ALA, like other orgs. are "interested parties" in this matter-lobbyists like everyone else. "

To JWO: wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:37 AM:

" Aren't we brave, wow going to another town that you can't even spell properly. And wow, you're such a big hero getting this little tactic on the radio. You must be so proud. In case you didn't know it, you are playing with fire. One of these days somebody is not going to put up with your little pranks and you are going to get what's coming to you. This is not a threat of any kind, but how long do you think businesses are going to let this slide? Honestly, do you think you can go on doing this? You will meet up with someone at the wrong place and wrong time. "

To Geez: wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:31 AM:

" Who's the big baby here? Were'n you just complaining about having to walk through smoke on your way to do the door when you go to work? All the smokers are doing is excercising the "right" to go outside and smoke and in compliance with this law. What else are they supposed to do, other than what you want them to do? And I quote, just quit. Would that make you happy? Of course it would. Well, it wouldn't make them happy now would it? And so what if they drive down the sreet and have their window cracked, that's their business, not yours. Or could you smell it when you were 40+ feet away. Give me a break. "

cigar guy wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:23 AM:

" as much as i like my cigars i totally support the ban! "

To: Geez wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:39 AM:

" So you force smokers outside, and now whine because you have to pass them to get inside? You keep trying to justify the ban by putting the blame on smokers that you were subjected to SHS, but name one time you went into a building and were forced to endure smoke in the last 5 years. The truth of the matter is that you feel so self righteous and self important, that you expect everyone else to cater to you. You continually side step the truth that you willingly subjected yourself to SHS by your choices to enter buildings. If you did not care enough to not go into smoking establishments, why are you now so worried about passing smokers outside? "

Geez! wrote on Feb 24, 2008 2:08 AM:

" BTW. what's with smokers who are alone in their car and still crack a window? Why let the smoke out? Isn't that the sole purpose of smoking? Or can't you stand your own second-hand smoke? It's also odd to me that when smokers can't defend their decision to smoke, they have to change the subject to cars, guns, food, or anything else except the topic at hand - smoking. I understand the need for analogies, but the bottom line is that this ban has been in effect for a little over a month and already the smokers are whining that it needs to be overturned. Well get your jammies and I'll read you a bedtime story, you big babies!! "

Geez! wrote on Feb 24, 2008 2:05 AM:

" When the ONLY entrance to my workplace has smokers all around it (not one person giving a hoot about some 15-foot LAW that no one seems to enforce), then I have no choice but to walk through it to get to where I need to be. If there were another entrance, I assure you, I would be taking it. So yes - there is a problem with smokers that I simply cannot avoid with the way things are at the moment. Even when I come in early, there are still smokers out puffing away and not caring in the least as to who they offend. After all, if they are going to be inconvenienced, they might as well make everyone as miserable as they are for having to go outside to smoke! Again, another example of how selfish smokers are. "

Just Walked Out wrote on Feb 23, 2008 10:28 PM:

" Hey, this Just Walk Out stuff is catching on. There was a Chicago radio station that was talking about it on Friday. Rural/Suburban bar owners are getting what they deserve was the tone of the conversation. Break the law and you will suffer the consequences. All you owners have to do is follow the law and we will pay our bills. If you will not force your patrons to comply with State Laws, then we will continue to enjoy a night out on your pocket book. I am going to a town that sounds like "see Roy" to a certain bowling alley this week and can't wait to see someone try to light up. I hear the owner likes to let smokers light up at this place. Oh, that will be changing. "

We Walked Out too wrote on Feb 23, 2008 4:42 PM:

" At 1:15 this afternoon, 5 of us walked out of a bar/restaurant in rural Livingston Co. because people lit up cigarettes. We asked the owner to make them put them out and he ignored us. We took pictures with our cell phones of the owner standing with the smokers. Then, we got up and left our half eaten food and drinks on the table and walked out. We figured with the 2 rounds of drinks and the sandwiches and sides the bill would have been $65 - $75 easily. We want to thank Just Walk Out for inspiring us. The look on the owner's face was priceless. We were able to get a picture of it too. You can be sure that next time we go into a place and we smell people smoking, we are going to order steak and lobster. "

free wrote on Feb 23, 2008 3:49 PM:

" I would like to see the City liquor comission, put on probabtion, any establishment that has any smoking complaints against them. Unfounded, lies or whatever. Just a formal notice that you will be investigated. If the accusations are found to be true, there should be severe action. If they are unfounded, no loss. Tie compliance to the license on the wall and the smoking bars in Bloomington will end. "

RE: to To Geez wrote on Feb 23, 2008 3:45 PM:

" So you are saying that you also support guns being allowed to be carried by anyone, any where? After all, people have a right to bear arms too. Have the 'right to breath clean air' was never taken from you. You had to give it up voluntarily to be subjected to SHS. Now, unless you are saying you lack the mental capacity to make such a simple decision, I fail to see your point. Your right was never taken away. No one tied you up, and forced you to breath SHS. If you see a car coming down the street, and choose to jump in front of it, whose fault is it? Accept responsibility for your actions. "

Yet again wrote on Feb 23, 2008 1:47 PM:

" Smoking is just wrong, bad for you, makes you age prematurly, and kills you. If you want to kill yourself or make yourself old and sick, go right ahead; only do it outside or in your own home. However, if you become ill, just make sure you have health insurance, because I do not want to pay your medical bills while you linger in the hospital waiting to die. A friend who hated being told to wear a motorcyle helmet ended up in the hospital paralyzed with no health insurance. But they couldn't just let him die so the government paid his over $300,000 medical bills. But wait! we ARE the government, so you and I paid it. Same is true of smoking and drinking. I realize this is not a good Chritian view, but I get so very tired of people claiming they have the "right" to do the wrong thing. "

to again wrote on Feb 23, 2008 1:25 PM:

" well i also believe there should be no bars. or at the very least bars should have NO parking spaces. Yep you read right, no bar paton should be allowed to drive period. its not a rights issue its a public safety issue. Bar patron have been shown to drive home intoxicated.
Every 18 year old should go into the millitary and be taught how to properly use a firearm. then be issued one for life. its not a rights issue its a public safety issue (look at sweden they do it and have the lowest violent crime per capita of the entire world.)
tanning is unheathy too. tanning salons should be banned anyone that allows their children to get a suntan is therfors guilty of child endangerment and abuse.
it causes cancer for gods sake what is wrong with you people, that let their children get a tan! do these things sound logical to you?
"

OGS Economic Tsunami wrote on Feb 23, 2008 1:19 PM:

" While you're all allowing yourselves to be distracted by this smoking ban nonsense,,,financially speaking the USA is about to go down like the Titanic! Forget this sidetrack and pay attention to the real state of affairs. "

also to the REAL GOM wrote on Feb 23, 2008 11:33 AM:

" I didn't mean for it to sound like I was trying to put words in your mouth, it was just an observative statement, derived from the impression being left by all smokers. Also, you seem to fail to add into your post's that smoking is still legal, and allowed within the confines of the designated smoking areas. Which has definately not taken away your "choice" to smoke, or, to be a customer at ANY business that serves the public. "

to the REAL GOM wrote on Feb 23, 2008 11:21 AM:

" I don't know where you have been, but for as long as I know, ALL businesses are subject to abide by the rules of the government in some way, shape or form. Different rules for different businesses, depending on the type of business it is. And some rules being equal, no matter what type it is. More stringent rules are in place for places that serve food and drink, because of the obvious dangers that could arise. All ppl that "jump" into the owning a business pool know this, and are aware that rules can be added or amended at any time. In the case of smoking, it seems that the majority of the country and world, have come to realize the negatives of this act, enough to become what you refer to as socialist. If you have to keep feeding your nicotine habit, chewing tobacco is still legal everywhere, why don't ya give it a try? "

Geez! wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:42 AM:

" Caution: Cigarette Smoking May be Hazardous to Your Health - 1966. Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined that Cigarette Smoking is Dangerous to Your Health - 1970. So you mean to tell me that ALL of those tobacco lawsuits began before 1966? The ones that were started in the 1990's were actually at least 25-30 years in the making? And you tell me that I don't look anything up? For the sake of argument, wouldn't it seem logical that inhaling smoke would be bad for you? Ever hear of people being treated for "smoke inhalation" from fires? Ever hear of anyone being treated from breathing clean air? Words cannot adequately describe how futile your lame argument is. "

TO: GEEZ from Gov't opp. Mule wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:23 AM:

" GEEZ-PLEASE READ YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU TYPE. Pointing out your errors is starting to get a little tedious. The smokers who started the smoking lawsuits are people who smoked BEFORE there were warnings on packs of cigarettes. Hence the reason they ae suing. They had no warnings to the potential dangers. "

And again wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:23 AM:

" "Mad Ranter" - No matter how many times you post, you have been shown wrong. Check out Runyon v. McCrary. The right you claim doesn't exist. Just to make it clear that this is a public health issue, tell us if you believe that lettuce should be inspected for e. coli, or if restaurants should be inspected to make sure that the food we are served is safe. Or is that a free market issue? "

p.s. wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:21 AM:

" sorry to have pointed out your spelling error, I always feel it's bad form, but just wanted to inform you (as people have pointed out my spelling errors.) "

TO: The real GOM from Gov't Opp. Mule wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:20 AM:

" First off, I never said there was a conspiracy against smokers, so please do not put words into my "mouth." Secondly I'm sorry you feel my statements are frivolous and ridiculous (two i's no e.) but I would like to break down these frivolous statements: "It was a mandate passed by a gov't that is converting capitalism to socialism;" Look up capitalism and socialism-socialism is when the gov't run the business' (which is what's happening as the owners can no longer allow legal activities in the buildings they own) converting a democratic republic into a single democratic state (we no longer have freedom of differences between states-which is what the constitution is designed to do.); and turning choice to totalitarian gov't edict (again no vote was taken on this matter, it was just handed down so Chicago will stop losing money and now the "playing field is leveled" so everyone loses money.) Me and my "cohorts" are attempting to grip onto reality, but you and your goose stepping minions are slowing stripping it down to nothing and smoking wasn't the first step, it's just another in long line of gov't abuses and intrusions.
"

middle of the road dude wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:19 AM:

" to Geez
you are free to breath clean air. Just as soon as you find some, let us know will you? All of the air you breath has toxins and carcinoginics in it Someday you will realize only some of it came from SHS "

And? wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:16 AM:

" The government is turning communist with government-controlled schools and emergency services and its seat belt laws and stop signs. How dare they tell me I have to obey traffic signs! If people don't want to get hurt then they should just stay off the road! "

to To Geez wrote on Feb 23, 2008 7:01 AM:

" How dare you tell someone that they don't have the freedom to breathe clean air whereever they please! As of Jan. 1st, ALL ppl have the freedom to enter any place and know that they will, by law, be able to breathe clean air. You, as a smoker do no longer have the option to pollute the indoor air of businesses. Funny, how when certain laws become enacted, certain groups don't even notice it because it doesn't affect them personally. But it is clear as glass that this particular one has revealed the TRUE character of many selfish smoking addicts. "

To: Geez wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:09 PM:

" Fire kills too, and if you are stupid enough to walk into it and stand there, you deserve what you get. Yes, you may have the right to breath clean air (arguably), but you do not have to have the freedom to do it where ever you please. People have the right to bear arms, but can not walk into a school with it. People have the right to religion, but not to force others into their religion. Having a right and having a freedom are 2 different things. When someone goes into a smoking establishment, they are surrendering their right to breath clean air by exercising their freedom to go in. Serious, are Americans REALLY so clueless about civil liberties and rights? "

Geez! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:09 PM:

" Smokers don't blame everyone for them putting their own lives at risk?? Where have you been? What do you think the tobacco lawsuits are all about? People NOT taking responsibility for their own actions and then suing when the very things happen to them that they were warned about happens! Why not sue Hershey's for diabetes? Why not sue Jack Daniels for a failed liver? Why not sue Hustler for carpal tunnel? Or...why not just take responsibility for your own actions? Smoking kills. It has ZERO positive aspects. Second-hand smoke also kills. Check the CDC's website for proof of this. I and others get asthma attacks from second-hand smoke. Why should I get an asthma attack because of someone else's lack of self-control? "

to the REAL GOM wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:57 PM:

" FYI, I did some homework and found some info at Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. There I found a list of States and countries with smoking bans already in place, or planned bans for the future. There are 63 countries worldwide, and 50 of our United States that have some form of an active smoking ban. With those kind of statistics, it seems to make your statements from your 2/22 4:36 p.m. post seem pretty frivolous. According to your accusations regarding our government, 63 countries and 50 of our states are converting to socialism, destroying a democratic republic, and have a massive conspiracy against smokers. You, and your addicted co hearts REALLY NEED to get a grip on reality. Your post's are beginning to teeter on the edge of rediculous. "

To JD wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Thank you. "

JD wrote on Feb 22, 2008 6:01 PM:

" You are assuming I am a smoker, and attempt to distract from the argument based on a factless assumption. I am just a person who is tired of people not taking responsibility for their own decisions, and go even further by attempting to blame others for it. Regarding your 'logic', a smoker may knowingly put their life in danger, but they do not attempt to blame everyone else for their smoking. The same can not be said of proponents of this ban who did not care enough about the dangers of SHS to not be around it, but now attempt to blame smokers because they were subjected to it. I am not saying either is intelligent, but I can say that the smokers are at least being adult. "

re: to THE REAL GOM FROM tHE REAL GOV'T oPP. mULE wrote on Feb 22, 2008 4:36 PM:

" I agree with your statement, if this had been voted on. But it wasn't. It was a mandate passed by a gov't that is converting capitalism to socialism; converting a democratic republic into a single democratic state; and turning choice to totalitarian gov't edict. "

to to the REAL GOM wrote on Feb 22, 2008 4:23 PM:

" my goodness, you certainly know how to rattle and ramble. I "think" that in my post to you, I praised you for the things that your attempting to do, but let you know that for the positive things that you are trying to get done, supporting the negative action of repolluting the indoor air of places that serve the public, diminishes the positive actions. The fact that when a law is passed by the majority, as with this ban, the process of what our forefathers meant for a democratic society to be, has been fulfilled. The proper steps were taken to vote for or against. And so it is, somebody must win, and somebody must lose. If this action had swayed in the other direction, you, and other smokers wouldn't be spewing such venom. The same government that has enacted laws that protect you and your family, is the same government you are calling power tripping Nazi's, socialist, fascist. SAD "

To: JD wrote on Feb 22, 2008 3:51 PM:

" Thank you JD you are the best advocate against smoking. Your statement "One can not expect adult and logical arguments from these people though, because one has to question the intelligence of someone who willingly puts their life in 'danger'. " That tells me a lot. You are a smoker I presume and YOU KNOWINGLY PUT YOURSELF AT RISK EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU LIGHT A CIGGARETTE. It is true smoking causes cancer, smoking cause heart disease. So your very argument it a moot point. Thank you for confirming what others have been debating for sometime now. Again Thankyou JD for clearing up that issue.
"

JD wrote on Feb 22, 2008 3:18 PM:

" In almost every instance that proponents have used to cite health concerns, like asbestos, the danger is hidden. Asbestos in the walls can not be seen. Toxins in the foods can not be seen. Health codes exist to ensure hidden dangers do not exist so consumers can make an educated choice. Not only is SHS health concerns unproven, SHS is visible. If a person subjects themselves to it, they do so willingly. People try to play the victim card, citing how SHS smoke affects them, but I have yet to see one admit they subjected themselves to any 'dangers'. One can not expect adult and logical arguments from these people though, because one has to question the intelligence of someone who willingly puts their life in 'danger'. "

To: GEEZ from Gov't Opp. Mule wrote on Feb 22, 2008 2:42 PM:

" I don't expect you to be able to understand this, but all the activities you listed are illegal. You cannot legally shoot up anywhere, you cannot legal rape kids anywhere, but you can smoke legally. Telling a business they cannot allow a legal activity on their property is the epitamy of socialism and totalitarianism (please look up these words). "

Again, The Mad Ranter to Geez! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 2:41 PM:

" There is 100% proof that those activities will cause death. Lets use asbestos, its a very good example.... Nazi's try to use the: "Oh Sure, let the bar owner use asbestos blah blah blah". The big difference you ask? Asbestos has been PROVEN to cause cancer! SHS has not. Also, for the last time quit saying that smokers as saying smoking is a right. Its like the lies you see on tv... If people see them enough they believe its true. NO smokers are saying that smoking is a given right. What is a "right" is the freedom-of-choice. No you can't have a bar where everyone shoots at each other because Smoking Nazis would go in and tell everyone to stop, and then in the process recieve a Second Hand Bullet and cry about it. "

To JWO wrote on Feb 22, 2008 2:32 PM:

" Why do you keep going back to the same place to pull your little stunt? Are you afraid to go someplace else for fear they actually might do someting to you? maybe not call the police but something a little different? Are you sure they haven't done something to your food? Maybe it's just because you're lying about the whole thing just to feel like a big man. How about it Crudson business, what a jerk, can't even spell it right, is this person just blowing smoke? Let us know. "

Life is Good Re: to GOM (whichever one that is) wrote on Feb 22, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Wow, still the same pyscho babble. They use to allow people the "choice" to have slaves too....gee, why was that ever overturned? Bad argument. It's the law, get over it and yourself. Oh, and keep on smoking, preferably at an increased rate....the effects will take less time to become apparent. Life is good. "

Geez! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 2:13 PM:

" Then why not have business cater to the drug dealer? The sociopath? The gun runner? Just saying that "a business has a right to cater to their customers" without considering just what it is that they are "catering" to, shows an incredible lack of judgment. You can't shoot up in the privacy of your own home, you can't fire a weapon within city limits, you can't carry a box cutter on an airline, you can't play music in your home to loud, etc. Infringing upon people's "freedoms"? Maybe. But these laws are in place because there will always be people looking to abuse it and push the limits of acceptability. Again, smoking is NOT a "right". It affects much more than just the ones who light up. Are you truly that selfish? "

Re: To the REAL GOM from Gov't Oppressed Mule wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:55 PM:

" I'm sorry you find capitalism to be a plight not worth fighting for (or in my stance Socialism is a plight to fight against.) I would normally make a comment to the effect of "our forefathers who fought and died in this country turning over in the graves." However your lack of concern for the RIGHT TO CHOOSE to whom a business caters (i.e. capitalism i.e. the basis on which this country was founded) shows me that the term Nazi, does in fact fit the bill and any logical discussion with you would be pointless because your concern for our actually country is non-existent and therefore pleading to your intelligence so we don't go down a path that will ruin the country is a waste of breath, for your concern doesn't go past your own olfactics. Great philosophy "damn tomorrow as long as I get what I want today." Hope you teach your kids to be as selfish as you've presented yourself to be today. I'll save wasting another breath on you and instead save it for my cigs...mmmm...still tastes great. "

to Health Nut wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:20 PM:

" if you are such a health nut why are you abusing such an unhealthy substance? "

Geez! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:18 PM:

" BTW, Nebraska just went completely non-smoking, with NO exceptions. Lincoln, NE has been that way for two years, and it's working. There's an article about it in the Lincoln Journal-Star's front page if you want to read it. For some asinine reason, The Pantagraph doesn't allow for posting of links to articles. "

Geez! wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:16 PM:

" A "smoking section" is just as intelligent as a "peeing section" in a swimming pool. How does the smoke "know" where to go? How will it keep itself from being blown back into the faces of others? A 15-foot rule for entrances sounds like a good idea on paper (to some), but when you realize that you have to walk through the gauntlet of smoke to get to your smoke-free workplace, it becomes another matter entirely. There should be no smoking in, on, or around businesses, public places (ie, parks, pools, etc), and so forth. I've had asthma attacks walking through the smokers' crap to get to work. Then you get those who go out on "smoke breaks" and come back smelling nasty and causing others to hack and cough. Nice. "

to THE REAL GOM wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:14 PM:

" The SMOKING BAN, is where it is written that a business owner must provide air clean of cigarette smoke, this includes bars. Wow, it sounds like you are a one man army on a mission to change the world. Although some of your plights deserve respect, your defense of smoking, a habit that you yourself have admitted is dangerous to ones health, does not deserve to fall in the same catagory as some of your other missions. Someone of your caliber, that can see the need to improve certain things that affect your fellow human beings, should realize that into those positive actions, you should not add in, the defense of the deadly act of smoking, or condoning exposing others to said smoke by wanting the ban lifted. "

answer please JWO wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:50 PM:

" Did you see the smokers BEFORE you ordered your meal? If so why did you stay - just to be obnoxious? Do you realize that most of the profit in restaurants is NOT made on the food, it is made on the drinks? Whether it be bars that serve food or chain restaurants that serve alcohol the profits do NOT come from the food - just ask anyone associated with this type of business and they will tell you that. You aren't hurting them as much as you think - you are just making yourself look bad. "

To: to smoker wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:53 AM:

" I must have missed the article where there was a compromise. If you think that having to smoke fifteen feet from the door is one, in my opion, it really isn't. Smokers are not asking for everyplace to allow smoking, just some so they can enjoy themselves also. Non-smokers are not willing to do this. Why. Exactly who is it going to hurt? If this was done you could have the best of both worlds. Isn't this what we teach our children? To share or to compromise? I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. Give the businesses a break. "

Life Moose Lodge Member wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:46 AM:

" Any Moose Member that can't see the damage the smoke does to the elder members is just plain an idiot. I have been a L.O.O.M Life member since 1980. I seldom attend any of the functions because the smokers are so unreasonable and insist they have as much right to polute the air as non-smokers have to breathe clean air. If this smoking ban is given any exceptions, I will insist on the right to carry with me into My Lodge, and any other, an oder container which I will insist is my right to have what ever bad oder I want. I will make it so hard for others in the lodge or tavern to tolerate the smell, they will have to leave in order not to be sick.

My Moose Lodge is smoke free. And our attendence is double what it was just 5 moths ago. There are a heck of a lot more non-smokers than smokers and it is time we non-smokers find the tools to fight fire with fire. "

Again, The Mad Ranter to JWO wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:31 AM:

" So are you telling me that you knew for a fact that the establishment you willingly went to last night allows smoking. They even go as far as flaunting it. Yet you still went in knowing that you would be exposed to SHS??? What about your health? The risk that you took breathing in SHS? Is a free meal worth your risk of cancer or death? It is amazingly obvious that you are not concerned with your health at all and in fact you probably know that there is no proof that SHS causes cancer, therefore you are willing to use this ban to mooch. All you people cheering JWO, take a good hard look at this hypocrite!!!! "

RE: TO GOM from THE REAL Gov't Oppressed Mule wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:41 AM:

" First off, I must explain, the last 4 or 5 posts that end FROM GOM are not, in fact from me. But I would like to address a few of the issues that you raised. FIRST you ask why I only defend "smoking" and not other issues? aside from the obvious fact that I'm defending rights of capitialism from the socialists, I do. I am currently petitioning members of congress of reforms for our minimum wage system. You also state "but nowhere are you to be found in the real world advocating your position. It’s all smoke and mirrors." How would you know? In fact I've already begun helping to organize protests, but thanks for acting as my P.A. And I would like to know where it's written that a business owner must provide his clients w/ 100% pure oxygen? Last I checked a bar owner was in the business of buying and selling drinks, not air quality. I must have been outside smoking during my business classes when we covered how to test air molecules within a business to ensure that it is 100% pollutant free or the legal duties to perform the said procedures. "

Name Calling wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:13 AM:

" You know you have defeated someone and backed them into a corner when they resort to name calling. So smoke defenders, please keep the name calling and insults coming. "

Health Nut on a High Horse wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:11 AM:

" WEEEEEEEE....I am so enjoying the ride on my high horse in the smoke free bars. Giddy-up! "

as a smoker wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:10 AM:

" I am embarrassed how we are acting in this! Take the high road the law has passed now we need to accept that it is here. I will go outside and stand my 15 feet away, and I really don't care. I have a nice warm coat smoke as long as I want then go back in. What is the big deal? My company had us stop smoking in the building about 10 years ago and we had to start going outside, I didn't mind, and understood. I don't mind the ban, I am grown up and last time I checked you had to be 18 to buy cigarettes but yet I have not seen many adu

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