Pantagraph.com | Letters | Problems with shootings deeper than man's laws

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

To Greed wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:42 PM:

" That is why you can make changes to the constitution through amendments. No way did our founding fathers know about cars, highways, and automatic weapons. The militia they refer to is not the national guard no matter how you try to spin things. You want spin go to the O'Reilly factor. "

to greed wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:27 PM:

" their murder rate with guns has gone through the roof. Home invasions have sky rocketed. assault is way up. not what I would call a safer place.
Its peoples disregard for human life that is causing the problem. not what tool they chose to use
"

Greed wrote on Feb 28, 2008 5:48 PM:

" The reason for the school shootings, and the other shootings too for that matter, is the ease with which you can get guns. Australia, after there was a massacre with a M16 assault rifle, finally outlawed most guns. They haven't had a massacre since. Funny how our Supreme Court panders to the gun lobby so Republicans can get elected. The Constitution connects gun ownership with The Militia (The National Guard today). Gun ownership in those days was for defense of the country, not so you can run around the boonies playing war, or in case someone cuts you off in traffic, or makes you mad in school or college. The constitution says if you want to own guns, join The National Guard. Now, all the gun nuts will come out of the woodwork! "

Crybaby wrote on Feb 28, 2008 1:18 PM:

" "So, other than all that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" "

gay christian wrote on Feb 28, 2008 1:14 PM:

" i see a lot of misunderstading in the letter that the pastor wrote, and i admit, at first i let it affect me. then i realized we're both the same. we both misinterperate (sp) a lot. i, like others, read the paper often and see what people have to say. they have their own ideas as is thier right. "We have polluted the air with profanity and called it freedom of expression." he states his feelings and to me, polluted my air . its the way you see it. i thought it was offensive-what he said "We have endorsed perversion and called it alternative lifestyles." his view of perversion is apparently being a homosexual, yet my view are adults (pastors or otherwie) who like to have sex and or rape young boys and girls. i would love nothing more to give him a piece of my mind. at the same time, being a christian i know better. no matter what, the schol shootings were wrong. insted of pointing the finger of blame at loving people who arent doing a thing wrong but attempt to be an upstanding citizen, why dont we attempt to solve the problem? "

to The funny part is that this is all realitve wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:57 AM:

" how do you come to that conclusion? that would only be true if you were forced to do and feel as he states. the truth of the matter is his opinion has NO impact on what you chose, unless you chose to let it. "

to Sarcastro frm mrd wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:52 AM:

" then do not read a letter to the editor from a minister "

isu alumni wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:38 AM:

" another one of these crazy god letters? remember people who perform violent acts usually have delusions about god and reality because they become overwhelmed by society. id be checkin this guy out. "

W wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:26 AM:

" To Sarcastro - well too bad people are allowed to write what they want, isn't it. "

W wrote on Feb 28, 2008 9:20 AM:

" To MRD - ditto "

Sarcastro wrote on Feb 28, 2008 8:38 AM:

" What's with all of the religious-inspired letters lately? If I wanted a sermon every week, I'd start going to church. "

dwarf wrote on Feb 28, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Whoa there a second... If evolution is the source of moral & criminal problems, shouldn't we see a lot of biologists committing crimes? "

Good wrote on Feb 28, 2008 8:06 AM:

" letter. I'm not churchy or religious or anything, but its all true. "

mrd to west side rambler wrote on Feb 28, 2008 7:10 AM:

" well lets see the same can be said for: capitolism, the libral party , the democratic party ,republican party, any forms of govt. the media (all form and biases ) every civic group. So I really must ask whats your point? "

Westside Rambler to MRD wrote on Feb 27, 2008 4:34 PM:

" My point exactly...it's all the same. Communism, Christianity, Nazism, Judism. They have all been used to get power over people. "

mrd wrote on Feb 27, 2008 2:57 PM:

" sorry meh the last post was meant for westside "

mrd to meh wrote on Feb 27, 2008 2:56 PM:

" yet the same type of people have used communism and the lack of religion (even banning churches) to reach the same goals. IE Stalin.
when they use religion to do the same it is not the religions fault. It is the deceivers fault along with those that have blindly followed said leader.
i personally feel that the present leadership is doing exactly as you say. In my mind NO Christian can justify torture or assassination as a valid tools to do anything but the devils work. And all that are willing to follow blindly are as guilty.
"

The funny part is that this is all realitve wrote on Feb 27, 2008 2:35 PM:

" I bet if someone were to create a similar issue list 100 years ago it would include some of the same issues, but with a different twist. Religion, like so many other things is interpreted for the individual at that specific point in time...which is exactly why it is dangerous when someone else tries to interpret what religion means. The one point you make that is actually valid is the fact that we have choices, I would even go so far as claiming choice was God's greates gift. The sad part is that by your attempts to interpret religion on my behalf, you limit my ability to make choices and interfere with my god given rights. "

Where do I even begin....? wrote on Feb 27, 2008 2:26 PM:

" It would be nice, if just once, someone could actually correlate the message with the facts. You fail to do more than a rambling rant against the typical targets of an idelic christian attacks. But, of particular mention, we need to addres your nearly insane statement that "The mind is like a computer: garbage in; garbage out.". The human mind is nothing like a computer, humans have free will, the ability to think outside their original programming, and the ability to question what they are seeing, hearing with judgement. Maybe those aligning themselves with the christian right are more like the puppets you describe, which is part of the problem....but most people are at least capable to introduce judgement and critical thinking even if they don't exercise this right. Also, next time you want to try and convince the majority of the population that you have a point, you might try to related the content of the letter to the actual point. "

To:MRD from Westside Rambler wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:40 PM:

" My main point is that you can not put the blame on schools for teaching evolution and not allowing religion for all the ills of society. It's just not true. To me the problems really aren't that deep, and have been there since the beginning of the human race. Greed, a lust for power…it's human instinct. Greedy, powerful people have always used religion as a front to disguise what they really want..control of the masses.
I can respect anyone's beliefs, but I really don't want to hear about them, and definitely don't want them pushed on me or my children. Especially in schools. "

to Westside Rambler from MRD wrote on Feb 27, 2008 12:51 PM:

" yet to others their religion helps them cope with the problems they face in everyday life. It helps them control their anger at the stupidity they see around them. and when they have feelings of hatred they let it go because they recognize that the hatred they are feeling is evil. in other words it helps them overcome the temptation to do the wrong thing. if for no other reason it is worth it for that. "

Meh to To: MEH wrote on Feb 27, 2008 12:18 PM:

" I'm allowed to raise my kids as I see fit, within reason, and that includes my lack of religion. "

To: MEH wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:45 AM:

" I bet you push your Atheism on your children though don't you? "

CC wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:28 AM:

" To: Pastor Badenhorst, another man of God by the name of Pastor John Hagee, has been saying the same thing about America. I think your letter is excellent and abosolutly 100 percent correct. "

Evolution wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:10 AM:

" Since when does evolution "replace" God? How can an apple "replace" an orange? Evolution is science and poses natural explanations. God is supernatural - never the twain shall meet!
"

Meh to to Meh wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:42 AM:

" I do my best to avoid religion, but then you have guys who think that I'm completely wrong and that the Government ought to be converting people like my family via the schools. They're entitled to their own beliefs but not entitled to push them on my family and me. "

middle of the road dude wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:39 AM:

" to Andrew: the article is addressing the causes of these things (at least in the writers mind) not the actual shootings. There is no doubt that if more people followed the 10 commandments our society would be a much better place for all.
the sad truth is i know athiests that are better at following these guidelines than many of the people that call themselves christians "

to Meh wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:30 AM:

" absolutely not! it is up to you to avoid the things you do not like . Not the other way around "

Meh wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Keep your religion away from my family! "

to ES from mrd wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:40 AM:

" you cannot, that was actually my point. and profanity IE swear words if not directed AT someone is not cursing them. "

MRD wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:36 AM:

" to those that replied to my post. You both make very valid points. I was not trying to say that swearing is a good thing or that it is an asset to conversation. Just that being malicious is worse. "

Andrew D. Coe, 18 wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:33 AM:

" This letter to the editor was PURE EVIL. How dare this pastor turn a horrible tragedy into a bullet-point on their personal agenda. That's disgusting to me. Nowhere in the letter does she show ANY sympathy for those who died, or were directly affected. I thought Christianity taught empathy as well as how to make good choices. The real issue, and tragic cause of this shooting was that this man had a severe psychological disorder that even modern medicine has trouble treating. Why don't we worry on fixing problems like that before we focus on pointless and one-sided issues such as vulgarity, blasphemy, and wether or not to teach evolution in schools. People like you, closed-minded and ignorant, are the reason that the christian church is often viewed in such a poor light. Just as a side note: not every view that the church takes has to be your own, I for one am happy that I have the freedom and ability to make up my own mind and form my own decisions. "

Westside Rambler wrote on Feb 27, 2008 8:08 AM:

" Yes pastor I agree. This country has many problems, but to put the blame on science. No. Religion is the biggest MANMADE idea (scam) of all time. Nothing more than a tool used by the powerful to control the weak. Always has been. People can live by the "golden rule" and not believe in some superbeing in the sky just because a book written by MEN told them so.
Evolution is not the problem. It's just science, a theory, but a theory backed by facts and evidence. The problem is that there is no accounability in our society. Politicians and trial lawyers have made sure that everyone is now a "victim". Because it gives them what they worship…the dollar. Even murderers, rapists, theives, etc are victims. The government believes they know whats best for all of us, so why should people even worry about it. Big Brother will take care of it for them. "

Lizzie wrote on Feb 27, 2008 7:56 AM:

" Now I know where NOT to go for enlightenment. Integrity Ministries. Thank you, but devolving back to the 1950's is not the answer to a better world. Acceptance and respect of others is the key and that is found within one's self not through a church or condemning those who have lifestyles different than others.

"

To ES wrote on Feb 27, 2008 7:52 AM:

" I don't know this pastor but I do know from the letter that he is not judging. He is merely pointing out some of the things that are wrong. That is part of the problem in itself don't you think? Automatically assuming you are being judged. Sounds like you have a guilty conscience but that is just my opinion, not my judgement. To MDR, how can one praise God yet curse man with the same tongue? Does salt water flow from a fresh water spring? "

re:MRD wrote on Feb 27, 2008 7:15 AM:

" A large majority of kids curse just because the know it has a shock factor. I think the fact that they don't care if they offend others with their language in public is a definite problem. "

ES wrote on Feb 27, 2008 6:21 AM:

" Integrity Ministries sounds like a made-up pseudo religion, to be honest. Here is a thought, Pastor, create your own integrity schools and preach what you wish just keep it out of the public education field. Again, the prayer in school issue is a direct result of Communisim and politics. If you have integrity, why do you judge welfare people, gays, people of color, and so many other things. It seems, sir, you have a lack of caring and more of a sense of judgement and a holier-than-thou attitude; all of which seems like a lack of integrity. "

prude wrote on Feb 27, 2008 5:28 AM:

" to mrd: I disagree that words are just words. I have thought for a long time that there are dirty words put in movies to make them more likeable and interesting. If you have to do that maybe the story is not likeable or interesting. Do you think better of a person who comes up to you and every other word that comes out of their mouth is profanity? As someone once said, dirty and profane words add absolutely no value to a conversation and actually lowers the value in my opinion. I have less respect for the speaker when they feel they must use those words. If the boys want to use that language when they are with the boys okay but they don't need to use it in public or around respectable people. "

Best Letter I Have Read In Awhile wrote on Feb 27, 2008 4:45 AM:

" Pastor, your words are right and true. I can personally relate to every line and I only hope I have the strength to make the changes I need to make in order to not be a part of the problem but perhaps a link in the chain of solution. Thank you for the wake up call sir. "

MRD wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:05 AM:

" well i actually agree with most of what you say here. the only thing I don't completely agree with is the profanity issue. with the exception of taking the lords name in vain. Words are just that, words. Its the intent behind the words that means more than the words themselves do. you can maliciously curse someone with out swearing at all. yet you can swear and have no malicious intent or meaning behind your words. "

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