Pantagraph.com | News | Officers hurt responding to incident at Elks Lodge

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 24, 2008 10:37 AM:

" To Bluntsworth: HAHA no, that's not me sorry.

But I am hottie. *L* "

JustMyThoughts wrote on Mar 23, 2008 6:57 AM:

" Wow, did this conversation ever get off track. So much speculation on so little information. This isn't about music, and it isn't about race, it's about several people that don't know how to behave as adults. No social, racial, economic, or musical genre-based group has a monopoly on stupidity and immaturity. "

C. Bluntsworth wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:43 PM:

" To: Jimmy Choo Girl

I was readin through here and i noticed that you said you're from a small town full of all white people and that you drive your Mercedes down Veterans listening to rap. Well, i'm from a little small white town too, and there's a chick that owns a green older Mercedes with rims. If you're her, you're a total babe. "

Sometimes wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Maybe you shouldn't let it bother you so much! Here's your solution: Don't keep coming back and reading these comments! I don't know what’s more sad either, the fact you are a grown adult being so bother by these comments or the fact you really believe that (talking) LIKE this (makes) any (type) OF sense. Well all understand the use of parenthesis however we also see the (out) of (context) use of parenthesis (so) blatantly apparent to everybody BUT (yourself). "

jipsi wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:17 PM:

" JimmyChooGirl, your post shows you obviously DON'T understand the use of (and reason for use of) parenthesis.

You do know you're "picking on" someone, right?
The subject of conversation or discussion here has long past.
And the few of you are left here, HECKLING another like classless children (or even MORE classless ADULTS, if that pleases).

I don't know what's more sad... your meanspirited rants "about jipsi" when I've said I'm DONE, or the fact that I have to come back and READ the crap and now stoop to defending myself.

Be REAL PROUD, okay?
Your continued heckling and taunts will live on in print.

So will my retreat from this article/blog as a person with some dignity.

"

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 19, 2008 2:07 PM:

" So basically your facts = your family (of cops) opinions? *L*

My cousin is a NARC in Chicago and if I were to ask him if hip/hop and violence at parties had anything to do with each other, he would laugh at me. Sorta the way we are all (laughing) at you and your (lovely) (language.)

P.S. I've been reading and writing for years and I don't put parenthesis around my words, nor does anyone else on here and I think they have been reading and writing for a while too. : ) "

Sometimes wrote on Mar 19, 2008 7:49 AM:

" Jispi-Do you need a tissue? Or a little cheese with that whine?? "

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:15 PM:

" I have FAMILY in B-N law enforcement.
There's your "backed-up" facts. (Now I suppose, you'll want me to give you names? RIGHT.)
Nobody else here has been asked (wait, you've DEMANDED, from me) to "support their facts".
But I have, the best I will ever be able under the circumstances.

Though it shouldn't matter in the least, I am not a "he".
If any of you knew enough about me, from my posts over the past couple years, you'd already know that.
I'm NEVER somewhere with my "nose in the air". I am not that facile or shallow.
My handle on language comes from years of writing and reading and I will not apologize because someone here might have to look up an otherwise common word.

I've been nothing but knowledgeable and eager to share with others who enjoy discussion. I exercise my right to both opinion and truth. Only I do so without being mean or spiteful to others here; several who have gone after me can no longer say that.
Somehow, I've become the "whipping boy" (girl) here and it's become a free-for-all.

STOP, please.
"

shawtbodie wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:05 PM:

" (cont'd)
3. To say that this was a case of adults not behaving like adults is ridiculous! This was a private party in which no identification was checked at the door or the bar, which the owners of the ELKS Lodge should have been required to do. So can anyone really say that the perpetrators were adults?! Remember that most college students are kids under 21. How about color coding those college IDs?

4. FINAL FACT.... The sooner that the residents of B/N realize that the discrimination of the Hip-Hop culture is alive in this town, the sooner the "issues" can be addressed. There can be no solution to a problem if no one admits that a problem exists. "

NoLongerTowny wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:43 PM:

" Don' t you like how "jipsi" turned to calling people kids as soon as his "facts" were questioned. I could just picture "jipsi's" nose up in the air as they turned their computer off with disgust. All we asked was to give us evidence supporting those facts, instead we received ridacule and accusations of being unintelligent or having a lack of experience because we don't fall for their every word. I would expect someone who is a self proclaimed "fact-fanatic" or "truth-nut" to support his information with...facts, rather than base it upon the generalizations from statistics from factual data that he could not produce for us. Here's a generalization for you, people who run their mouth acting like they know everything, yet are unwilling to back it up with "actual facts" typically come across as being full of it. Get your boots on folks, its getting deep! "

NoLongerTowny wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Wow, I always thought debates were about differences of opinions, backing up those opinions or stated facts, or disproving those you don't agree with. In a debate or discussion, someone has every right to ask where the facts are coming from. jipsi seems to think that his "research" and "personal experiences" justify his words as fact instead of opinion, but he still fails to back up those facts with any statistical analysis or hard facts that could prove him right. Instead he side steps the question by saying its based upon generalizations based upon statistics from facts that are gathered. Whose facts and what statistics? Its one thing to have an oppinion, but when you state that your words are fact, yet your unwilling to back it up with hard evidence, you come across as a less trustworthy source. "

Melanie11 wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:28 PM:

" (PART II)

Okay... you've stated YOUR facts... where is the evidence? I think that is what Someone was interested in when he asked for clarification. You've stated what you believe to be truth, but did not use any sort of logic in backing up those "facts". Facts without evidence is meaningless. I can declare all sorts of things as truth and fact but without evidence it proves nothing.

I've never been to that particular Elk's club (excuse me, LODGE) but I have been to many weddings at a Lodge in another town. The reference to "upscale" is due to the fact that you must be a member to rent the hall and membership is not cheap. But as "Protohooman" said earlier because you have money, does not mean you're "upscale." And to sum up what others have said... at a recent wedding at such Lodge, Hip/hop was the music du jour, and, while free beer was on tap, no violence broke out. There is no correlation between a choice of music and the amount of violence that will ensue. "

Melanie11 wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:27 PM:

" I can't help but think that Jipsi's being presumptuous. You like to spat off and say things in a complicated way that no one can follow your logic. You think because you talk (type) fancy, we'll get lost in your eloquence and lose focus. The fact is though, (read the article) the organizer of the party did not know (by omission of the renter) that so many people were going to show up to the party. I also find it ludicrous that you believe that hip-hop must be the music of choice because of the violence. To quote Jipsi:
"The facts ARE: ... There IS a disproportianately higher number of one race, over another, more likely to be involved in a particular side of town's raided parties/gatherings/assemblage ‘where shots are fired’".

"

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:02 PM:

" AGAIN, to SOME who thought my long post was in "response" to "Sometimes'... reread the FIRST line of my first post (of the 4 in succession): "On my "facts" closing comment (previous post):" ..
THIS was in reference to the previous post *I* had made (where I ended with the line, "Again, what it is is what it IS...these are facts, not "opinions". "".

There are kids online again this evening who just want to pick a fight, and I'm tired of being in the "same room" with them because they do not listen, they ridicule others "to make a point", and they plain do not have the experience or intelligence to weather complex discussions.
When a person can't add their own opinion or personal experience to an issue without being taunted and lambasted, it is no longer a discussion or debate, it's become an ugly and immature bashing contest.
I've spent too much time "responding" to "demands" and/or directing others to reread mine (or others') posts for clarification.... I'm done, better things to do, goodnight. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:50 PM:

" To Sometimes:...
...and THERE go the personal jibes and derogatory attacks again.
I don't debate like that. You might, but I don't.
.... "

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:46 PM:

" to BOTH "NoLongerTowny" and "Sometimes": "Sometimes's" post was NOT THERE when I made mine (geez, look at the time stamp: not POSSIBLE that I could have fired off four posts "in response" to another's in less thanTHREE MINUTES...)
If Sometimes' post HAD been available when I posted, I would have answered it.

Generalizations are backed by statistics that are results of facts that have been gathered.
The question that there is "no evidence" to support there is or isn't more or less violence at events playing rap/hip-hop vs. rock'n'roll or country, etc. can only be based on either generalizations (ie: you trust what others' experiences have been) or personal experience (You do your own research).
It's that easy.
But both are far preferable than simply pretending things are nicer than they really are.

My facts are based on my own personal experiences AND research. With a little help from a few "in the know" sources who've "been there" on many occasions.
Some of us just get out and about more than others, I guess.

"

c.a.t.s. wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:05 PM:

" how about the names of the other 5???? "

NoLongerTowny wrote on Mar 18, 2008 1:34 PM:

" To jipsi- you must be quite the dancer because that is all you seemed to have done with "sometimes" question about providing your facts. You should be in politics. Next time instead of posting numerous blogs that avoid providing the actual answers requested, it will be much easier to say "I don't have facts, I just like to read the words I write when I can't listen to myself talk" Again you made good points that may or may not hold some truth, but make sure you can back them up with facts and not opinions otherwise you lose credibility. "

Sometimes wrote on Mar 18, 2008 1:21 PM:

" Wow Jipsi way to disregard my question. You have alluded so far from my question that I almost forgot what I asked. I will ask again though. PLEASE Jipsi show me your FACTS that there is more violence at "hip/hop" parties than any other "type" of party!? You sure are getting defensive about not being a racist that (maybe) you need (to) talk like (this) in order to get (your) POINT (across)? "

Dave wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:30 AM:

" Well, I posted a question about the race of those involved and the Pantagraph decided for some reason we shouldn't know and didn't allow my post, although everyone seems to know but me.
So, based on all the innuendoes I'm assuming those involved were one particular race and not none raced people like the Pantagraph wants them to be.
Am I right?
I really don't care if they were black, white, Latino, South American Indians, Arabs or Asians. I just think if the Pantagraph is going to allow snide remarks that discredit certain races by some they should at least allow all of us to know what race we're reading about. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:22 AM:

" (cont.)
One should not berate another as being "racist" simply because the other might know (and share) more of the facts/details. It would be different if the other were making truly racist comments (which I DO NOT need to give examples of), because that is DEPLORABLE.
But I get so tired of hearing that word being slapped on someone just because they have a fact/detail to share that the "politically correct" don't want to hear...

I have friends and associates of various backgrounds and race that I can sit down and have REAL discussions with. We've even talked about THIS (blog) and my difficulty communicating in printed form the very things I can easily (and non-confrontationally) discuss in "real life".
Why is the "printed word", or the "news" so different from a roundtable real-time conversation? Why is it we can speak, in real-time, facts and details, but see them scorned, here, when in print?

This is something I intend to research, because it is a growing (and national) problem, in that it causes more divisiveness and confusion than the unity and understanding we'd all rather have... "

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:09 AM:

" (cont.)
The facts ARE: (there IS NO "sensitive" way to cradle it, but I'll TRY) There IS a disproportianately higher number of one race, over another, more likely to be involved in a particular side of town's raided parties/gatherings/assemblage "where shots are fired".
Now, if I added the FACTS (identifying the race, for instance, of those arrested or throwing broken bottles/glass at the police officers), the statement above becomes "racist"???
I'm not the one who "needs help" in figuring this one out.
I simply expect the truth and the details, not a "generic picture" altered out of someone's need to NOT want to know the "details" (political correctness).
A few here (myself included) have tried to add some facts and details to this news story.
We should know, by now, however, that most would rather hear a pleasant, detail-free telling of the news. (cont.)
"

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:08 AM:

" (cont.)
In real life, those who profess to want the "truth", have "real" conversations, etc., wind up, HERE, wanting the "political correctness" bulb shining over comments. If it's not there, they'll let you have it (their IRE, not the loan of said "bulb")...
So no matter WHAT I say, about this particular "story" for instance, if it's not "feel good" and "politically correct", I'll be "necktied".
News can no longer be reported FACTUALLY these days. When given descriptions for a criminal on the run, race will often be left out. This, in fact, only makes it MORE DIFFICULT to find and arrest the criminal, because race (skin color) is not just a potential "fight word", it's also an ADJECTIVE, as "brown" eyes, or "Blonde" hair, would be.
This is tragic, because it is almost a form of "obstruction of justice"! (cont.)
"

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:07 AM:

" On my "facts" closing comment (previous post):

I am open-minded and pro-diversity to a fault (friends call me "do-gooder", etc.).
However, I am also a fact-fanatic, a truth-nut. This often gets me into debates (here) where I'm accused of being all kinds of things but who/what I AM in "real life": someone who winds up being the peacemaker in all kinds of situations, a "counselor" to many who are too overwhelmed to "see the forest for the trees", etc.
For me, it's been a learning experience, here, to discover the things I say just don't "translate" well in a blog/flat (written-word) setting. As a writer, I have to struggle to find or choose my words much more carefully, usually to no avail.
People "listen" better than they "read".
(cont.)
"

Sometimes wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:04 AM:

" Okay Jipsi show me your FACTS that there is more violence at "hip/hop" parties than any other "type" of party. You stated a good point. When its a Campus party its just "scraps" between students/non-students, but when its hip/hop oriented its "MOB hostility". I don't follow. I am sorry but a party is a party no matter what music is being played and when people are out drinking and acting stupid the circumstances are there for it to get out of hand. Again Jipsi please present your FACTS hip/hop parties are more violent than other parties and your post will be justified. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:17 AM:

" to Sometimes: Once again, someone takes someone else's words, splits them up and reassembles them to suit. Gallows89 wrote: "Rarely - if ever - are the police called for violence or gunshots at a white party."
YOU accused him/her of saying "cops are rarely if ever called to a Campus party & there is rarely violence"
Now reread the FIRST quote (the REAL one), and then yours.
Cops ARE called often, to ALL parties, white or black. HOWEVER, the DIFFERENCE, and you admit this yourself ("The only difference was gunshots fired") is that the campus parties (ad they are NOT "white"; I've been to many and they are more ethnically diverse than one would expect) are NOT cited for VIOLENCE and GUNS (and stabbings, etc.); there are "scraps" between students/non-stidents, illegal sale of or possession of alcohol, noise complaints, etc..

But the rap/hip-hop (and I never said 'black', either) parties tend to draw the bigger, more unmanageable crowds, and there IS a high frequency of violence (not fist-fights between a couple college guys), drugs, MOB hostility AND "shots fired" at THOSE events.
Again, what it is is what it IS...these are facts, not "opinions". "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:08 AM:

" And Gallows - maybe you should tell BoHagen (he's a black rapper) that I am a racist. Because when my husband and I stayed at the Millenium Hotel in St. Louis a few years ago we met him there and he invited us to a party he was playing at. There were probably 200 peolpe getting their groove on, we were 2 of the 5 white people I saw there. And I had a great time and there was no violence. So I am just confused how you can say I am racist??? "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:02 AM:

" To Muttonhead: I'm sorry but I don't think that race comments are ever warrented. This story, like 99% of most stories on this site have nothing to do with race. It's the bloggers that bring race into the issues. I mean this was a bad situation where cops were hurt and people should be punished. Nothing white or black or yellow about it. Even if the party was all black people, why does that matter????????? "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:59 AM:

" To Normal guy: Any time I see Jessie Jackson on TV it's always been for black issues. I have never heard him defeding whites or mexicans or asians. I am sorry but I have not. And you only named Jessie Jackson and you brought it up. So I think we all know who thought of race first. "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:56 AM:

" To Gallows 98: Boy you couldn't be more wrong. I am 25 years old and as white as they come. I'm also from a small town with 2,000 all white people. It's just that my mother & father raised me to not be judgemental or racist. I play hip hop in my Mercedes as I drive down Veterans. I go to hip hop concerts and have never encountered any violence. I have been to hip hop clubs and seen many white people there along with black people. I have also been to many rock concerts and the ambulance is usually always carrying someone away. So what were you saying about hip hop again? And jipsi might be right (I don't know I wasn't at the party) but to assume and post that this was obviously black people playing hip hop music is so ignorant and narrowminded. And no I am not married to a black man if you were going to go there next. "

Sometimes wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:46 AM:

" Cont'd from previous post-However I cannot sit here and blanket the whole “campus party scene” and say gunshots were never fired at some point at a campus party. For how “pro gun” this town appears to be from previous posts, everybody sure gets their panties in a bunch whenever there is gunshots fired. So only certain people can protect themselves but not all people? There was a massive fight taking place at the Elks- couldn’t there be a possibility somebody was defending themselves from getting attacked? This situation at the Elks had NOTHING to do with it being a “hip/hop” party (actually where did the article even state this??). This was a bunch of drunken people acting stupid, period-nothing to do with the fact they were allegedly playing hip/hop music at the club. People are responsible for their actions not the music they listen too!!!!!!! But reality check-things like this happen very frequently in this town (example: ISU Campus!!!) however this is hardly reported in the newspapers.

"

Sometimes wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:45 AM:

" To Gallows98: Are you kidding? You can honestly sit here & say cops are rarely if ever called to a Campus party & there is rarely violence?! Wow I don’t know what kind of parties you have been to but every single time I have been to a party on campus there is always somebody fighting (girls & guys). Not only fighting but destruction of property, public urination, public indecency, DUI’s when people leave, & the list could go on and on. This situation at the Elks was not any worse than what goes @ campus parties. The only difference was gunshots fired. To be cont'd... "

bored wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:35 AM:

" I say if the crowd is throwing bottles, I say let the cops throw back some rubber bullets. "

it's me wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:20 AM:

" UPSCALE???? That is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. "

normalguy wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:49 AM:

" well it seems that those of you who assumed the jesie jackson comment was about race proved that you are indeed the ones assuming it was black party. as jessie and the naacp have stated many times they are there for people of all color, any time there is an injustice etc. Are you admitting that when you think of these people you only think of a particualr race? that no one is there to stand up for whites when the po po go after them? "

loveleelady75 wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:07 AM:

" This happened right near down town Bloomington and was Very loud!! I loved the fact that these police went into a suiation with on 2 of them knowing that there were 40 to 30 people at a party that did not want to end and who the hell goes home at 1am any way!! Welcome to Boring Bloomington.. Looks like some one forgot to tell these folks we stilll go to bed early around here!! "

mankind,or kind of a man wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:23 AM:

" about three weeks ago i went to a snoop dogg concert at the united center in chicago. 20,000 plus people and there was not one single fight, shooting, stabbing,etc. so lets disspell the rumors that where there is a hip-hop party, there's trouble. This is a simple case of people in this town don't know how to act, and carry themselves like adults. I've seen this happen to many times in this town.So F.Y.I. for next person who attempts to have a function like this here are a few tips to avoid this kinda probelm.Establish a dress code no gym shoes,t-shirt,ball caps, jerseys,etc. hire Real security(not your friend that works at gold's gym)notify the police ahead of time what you have going on and what type of crowd you are expecting. This should weed out all the bad seeds,and unwanted at your function, because there are a lot of hardworking people in this town who want to get out and enjoy bloomington's nightlife without the nonsense. "are you mankind,or kind of a man". "

zorro wrote on Mar 17, 2008 9:01 PM:

" Not a smart move, for the police to crash the party before re-enforcements arrived on scene. Surround the building, block exits, let'em fight, until the cavalry arrives with a lot of hand cuffs. Pepper spray and tasers will take the starch out of the biggest "bad guys"! "

firsthand wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:29 PM:

" Let's lower the drinking age, so more of this can happen! (sarcastic) "

bigred195648 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:50 PM:

" 2 cents thats where your wrong there are 2 elks in bloomington one is on euclid st at washington st and 1 is on madison st at front st in downtown bloomington.check it out for yourself "

Im Normal wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:42 PM:

" I may be wrong but I wonder with the smoking ban they have to do something to get more people????? "

Gallows98 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:23 PM:

" To JimmyChoo: First off, let me say that jipsi hit the nail pretty much on the head. Think about it for a minute. It is usually the "hip-hop" crowd that has problems when they assemble in greater numbers. This isn't racial profiling. This isn't discrimination. It is the law of probability. It is hard cold statistics that prove this. If we're going to get into a discussion about race, let's not pull any punches - it is what it is - black parties/white parties and I'm guessing that you are a person of color. If you want to compare black parties to white parties, then by all means go down to campus and observe any one of the fraternity or sorority parties that take place. Rarely - if ever - are the police called for violence or gunshots at a white party. Also, your statements about music are purely racist. Alot of white parties play hip hop but would you know this from personal experience? I doubt it. It's easier to be an armchair quarterback and make your comments while sitting on the sidelines than to actually get involved and provide solutions to the problem. "

sweetpotato wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:26 PM:

" To: 2 cents... there are 2 Elk's Lodge's for your information. Maybe you need to do some investigating. "

muttonhead31 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 4:16 PM:

" I guess we'll have to wait to see if the race comments are warranted. My guess is yes they are. "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:12 PM:

" Sounds to me like jipsi & normal guy should throw a party & listen to...well I don't know. What do perfect white people listen to cause we know it isn't hip hop. I mean heaven for bid that good people of all color listen to hip hop and rap. But thanks to normal guy, we know that this was an AfricanAmerican party and good ole jipsi lets us know that hip hop & rap are the music of choice at parties where bad things happen. I feel smarter already! DOH! "

jipsi wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:57 PM:

" Okay, Okay, I was WRONG...CONFUSED, and wrong.
But I am correct in that there ARE two different "Elk" establishments on WEST Washington St.: one, the REAL "Elks LODGE", on the corner of Washington and Madison (and I was CONVINCED they would NEVER rent their place out to ummm, SORRY! "this kind" of party, meaning the KIND of party (rap, hip hop) NOT the KIND of "people"-party) AND the other place is called the "Elks CLUB" over by Cargill and the Steak & Shake Commissary.
It is patronized predominantly by African-Americans (that's proper, I HOPE), not the "older folks" and "seniors" that are ommon guests at the Elks LODGE.
When I read the article, THEN read the posts, I mistakenly assumed THIS event was in fact having taken place at the CLUB, not the LODGE.
My assumption comes from having been THERE, personally, AND from the frequency of "problems" recent events like this (parties at "rental" clubs) have had in the recent past. There was NO "ethnic" ingredient involved.
I apologise for adding to the confusion by my incorrect assumption.
"

jipsi wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:42 PM:

" (cont.)
So. Now you know the real WHERE, and WHAT...
IMHO, the organizer of these events (is it the same one who booked the Wild West and such parties-gone-wild events in the past? I wonder...) should be held accountable AND responsible. There just is NOT a venue in this town LARGE enough (wait, the JudyDome?) to accomodate ANY event that...ummm...ratz... features the "Hip Hop/Rap ambience" (what it is is what it is), and the huge amount of people that want to ATTEND, hang "capacity" or invitations.
The last half dozen or so such events failed miserably, shots fired, guests stabbed/shot, officers hurt... and several times, our police officers were unable to contain the mob, told to "hang back".
These "parties" or "events" need to have better PLANNING in place (AND security) BEFORE the problems arise, NOT after, or they need to simply be held at a more appropriate (and LARGER) venue, instead of assuming (and telling) the over-attendance will just "go home or hang out" peaceably. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Exactly, sweetpotato. This is a case of mistaken identity!
So... Ahem. Well...
Several years ago, a west side neighborhood opened up a place by the old Steak & Shake commissary (West Washington St., just under the old Purina, now-Cargill plant) and they named it "The Elks CLUB".
NOT the "Elks LODGE" further East on Washington, across from the Pantagraph.
When it opened, I was a little baffled as to why they would do this. It seemed like it was going to cause CONFUSION, in the long run. But, like most hip-hop/rap ethics, imitation is supposed to be a sincere form of flattery.
I used to live on Six Points Road and frequently took this route to and from, so am familiar, as a drive-bystander (so to speak) with the...er, "overflow" into the parking lot that often happens there late at night.
I won't mince words.
I wasn't there THAT night. But I've encountered several of these overcrowding "instances", what looks to be HUNDREDS (if not a thousand or more?) of people in some big noisy commotion, with the half dozen or so BPD vehicles blocking traffic as the ruckus spills onto Euclid. (cont.) "

Not so Political wrote on Mar 17, 2008 2:18 PM:

" There is always some moron trying to make it a race thing. Black, white, red, green or what ever the color of the skin, people should act like adults if they are using someone else propperty for a party or gathering. "

91241 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:51 PM:

" Pathetic! What ever happened to good old clean McLean County? ANYONE! that attacks, or interferes with a Law Enforcement officer doing his job should be prosecuted to the fullest. It would sure be nice if someone had videoed this, so that no one weasels out. "

Truth wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:46 PM:

" I feel bad for the policemen involved. The organizer was trying to tell everyone it was time to leave and then they get in a fight. Police arrive and try to handle it in a quiet mannor but no! God forbid people should act civilized; but then if you have all that drinking and possible 'smoking' going on then you have nothing but trouble. I hope everyone involved who got hurt are alright. : ) "

Gallows98 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:44 PM:

" I knew it was only a matter of time before the discrimination and Jesse Jackson comments came out. That train ain't never late!! "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:31 PM:

" To normal guy: Did I miss something here? Nothing about the race of the partygoers was revealed that I saw. So why would the "Jesse Jacksons" care?

Oh wait I get it. The mention of gunshots, marijuana & downtown Bloomington must mean black people were involved.

Sometimes I am not proud to be a "Normal girl". : ( "

normalguy wrote on Mar 17, 2008 12:37 PM:

" just wait till the jessie jacksons of the world get ahold of this one "

2 cents wrote on Mar 17, 2008 12:35 PM:

" TO: sweetpotato
I'm sure you are not aware that the ELK's Lodge downtown and the one on west Washington St are the same place... There's is only 1 "

lindini wrote on Mar 17, 2008 11:14 AM:

" FYI, you no longer to to the Elks for Jury Duty lunch... "

darknight wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:32 AM:

" if you talking about the elks on madison st. I wonder how many of you people have ever been on jury duty. not many, because if you was you would know that thats the place they take the jury to eat, and if it's not an upscale and the people that go there isn't upscaled, then what are you going there for????? "

JTE wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:09 AM:

" First, this is the one on Madison Street, NOT the one out by the Steak 'n' Shake commisary. Yep, the one dowtown (the article says it's located on Madison Street). Second, even if the average age of the Elks' memebership is deceased, this occurence was NOT Elk's members. READ the article! It says that someone rented the space for her own birthday party. It was a private event, not an Elks' event. "

Paladin wrote on Mar 17, 2008 9:45 AM:

" This was an event that had little to do with the Elks Lodge, aside from the fact that they rented their property to someone who lost control of the facility and participants. I'll bet they will be providing more event oversight, in the future. It is interesting that ISU PD responded. I wasn't aware that they had so many personnel on shift that they could send a response team across town, without leaving their own territory completely unsupervised. Oh, well, I guess that will satisfy everyone who gripes that ISU PD doesn't work closely enough with the other departments in the area... It is hard to believe that the Elks just turned over their facility, when they can be liable for things happening on their property in any civil suit, and because there is always potential for property damage at any late night party (especially if there is booze involved). "

Crybaby wrote on Mar 17, 2008 9:22 AM:

" I'm with "sweetpotato": There's nothing about an upscale brawl anywhere on the Elk's website. Are we sure it isn't the Moose Lodge? Or the Beaver Lodge? Or some other critter Lodge? "

sweetpotato wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:39 AM:

" I"m not sure some of you are commenting on the same ELK's Lodge... there are two in town. One downtown and one on west Washington St. This is where some of your confusion may be. "

Anchor wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:00 AM:

" Heavens!! A BAR FIGHT?!?! In OUR town?!?!?! I think this kind of behavior signals the end of all that is decent and good. It is a sign that our civilization as a whole is in GREAT PERIL!! Lets BAN EVERYTHING!!! There should be a law!! Run them out of town!! Hug your children closely, stock up on water and non-persishable goods...lock your doors and load your guns...They'll never take me alive those...those...BAR FIGHTERS! WHO WILL SAVE US!?!??! "

Only in America wrote on Mar 17, 2008 7:50 AM:

" The elks club has had their share of incidents in which the police have been called.
That's funny if the elks club is "upscale" then burger king is a "high end" luxury Restaurant.... THE DUMBING OF AMERICA CONTINUES "

Sam Wainwright wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:50 AM:

" The article disparages not only Elks, but all four-hooved ruminants. By painting an entire species with the same brush of discrimination, you set back human-animal relations many years. "

Zeva wrote on Mar 17, 2008 6:35 AM:

" I believe what she meant when she said "upscale" was that it is a private facility, and the people that belong are nice people and not low lifes. Why is it that some people take pride in ridiculing some places that are considered decent. This is not your Sat. night bar for people to come to, get loaded or doped up and cause problems. So back off folks and give them some credit, it was intended to end this way. It stated more people showed up than was suppose to and that is when it got out of hand. That was too many people for the size of the building to begin with. "

D&A fan wrote on Mar 17, 2008 5:23 AM:

" Had almost 300 people at my wedding reception at the Elks Lodge about 11 yrs ago. You'd be surprised how many the Lodge can accomodate. "

110100100 wrote on Mar 17, 2008 3:57 AM:

" I went into the Elks Club once and thought I'd stumbled into some sort of weird nursing home. The fact that they turned on the cops makes me wonder more about what kind of crowd this was, particularly age wise. It definitely sounds like the police had their hands full. "

easy wrote on Mar 16, 2008 10:33 PM:

" dispeptic - Now I'm compelled to ask you....what are you saying? What should we be thinking about? What about those of us that do not party (there's a big bunch of us) or those that do respect ourselves and our fellow citizens (again a huge number) What for heavens sake should we be doing? Or thinking? Or expecting? "

TheMan wrote on Mar 16, 2008 10:30 PM:

" Not so Political obviously knows nothing about the Elks but that doesn't stop that individual from shooting their mouth off! Beer, poker and strip parties? What drug induced dream did you have to come up with that? The Elks isn't a strip joint - never has been, never will be.

But to blindly lay blame on the Elks is wrong and just plain ignorant. The Elks are a charitable fraternal organization. They support the youth in our community, our nation's veterans and our communities in general. The Elks are second only to one organization in providing scholarships to students, with that organization being the federal government. Not a bad place, especially considering the feds can print their own money. For more information on the Elks, check out www.elks.org , or it might just be easier to remain ignorant - its just too hard to form an educated opinion. "

the dispeptic skeptic wrote on Mar 16, 2008 9:44 PM:

" Well, what do you expect? We live in a community where time and time again, peoples' actions have proven that they have no respect for themselves, and no respect for their fellow citizens. It is time for people to do some serious thinking, before it is too late. "

noogie wrote on Mar 16, 2008 9:18 PM:

" It was huge, too big for the Elks. "

Lynn wrote on Mar 16, 2008 8:57 PM:

" The Elks Club may be "nice"...but UPSCALE?? LOL. "

Santo Fan wrote on Mar 16, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Hey noogie...please share the details. What kind of crowd are we talking about? "

Not so Political wrote on Mar 16, 2008 7:14 PM:

" It is time these clubs were closed, having beer, poker, and strip parties should not be allow if they can not control the crowd. It is time to close them just like stopping people from smolking this is dangerous to those people there and people passing by. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Mar 16, 2008 7:04 PM:

" The quality of the facilities are not that much of an issue when you have so many people drinking non-stop for several hours. After several similar incidents the last few years, shouldn't the police be notified when an event like this is taking place? Maybe they were notified... "

easy wrote on Mar 16, 2008 6:51 PM:

" noogie - what does your post mean? Were they ruffians? Nere do wells? Tell me! What type of crowd was it? "

noogie wrote on Mar 16, 2008 5:23 PM:

" Saw the crowd there, not surprised the cops were called.... "

Kevin wrote on Mar 16, 2008 4:43 PM:

" back in the 70's yes it was a very nice place but has gone to the dogs over the years. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Mar 16, 2008 4:25 PM:

" Au contraire, we attended a wedding reception at the Elks less than 2 years ago, and it was very nice. Nothing trashy about it. The building is old, but that does not equate to trashy. If you're looking for something garish and extravagant, check out a country club. "

kgabby714 wrote on Mar 16, 2008 3:27 PM:

" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL UPSCALE??????LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL "

li'l Johnny wrote on Mar 16, 2008 3:23 PM:

" I surely hope that there were video cameras capturing some of this. It seems like whenever you have an unruly drunken mob, the worst offenders manage to slither away before being arrested. Video proof is hard to deny in court! "

protohooman wrote on Mar 16, 2008 3:08 PM:

" so I guess that means you're not "upscale" either. I've attended BCC for a party, those people were not "upscale" either but they have money which is all that matters anymore. "

Reece wrote on Mar 16, 2008 2:47 PM:

" The elks club is far from "upscale". I have been to events there and find it very old and trashy, the people who attend are not "upscale" either. This sounds to me like it was waiting to happen "

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