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Five people stunned during fight at Elks
By Greg Cima
gcima@pantagraph.com
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BLOOMINGTON -- Police used stun guns on five people during a weekend party that turned into a series of fights, but one man is disputing allegations he resisted police before he was hit with Taser probes.

“If I did what they said I did, my bond would be more than $100 and they would have charged me with more than resisting,” Jermel Jackson, of Normal, told The Pantagraph on Wednesday.

Officers arrested one man on battery charges and five people on accusations they resisted police in a gathering that turned into a series of fights starting about 1 a.m. Sunday at the Elks Lodge, 110 N. Madison St. So far, formal charges have been filed only against one person.

Two officers and two party-goers suffered minor injuries. Officers reported hearing three gunshots outside the building and found bullet casings in a neighboring parking lot. No weapon was found.

The fights began during a woman’s private birthday party that was expected to draw 75 people, police and lodge management said previously. But hundreds showed up and fights broke out after an organizer tried to tell party-goers it was time to go home, police said.

Initially, Bloomington Police said an officer drew a Taser to keep the crowd at bay while arresting a man accused of hitting another with a beer bottle.

On Wednesday, department spokesman Dave White said Jackson was one of five people shocked with Tasers and arrested for resisting police officers. Duane Moss, also a department spokesman, said the officer who stunned Jackson filed a report Wednesday that says the 22-year-old was seen fighting before he ran from an officer. The report says the officer saw Jackson get into a second fight and he refused an order to stop and came toward an officer.

At his home Wednesday evening, Jackson showed small circular marks on his left shoulder blade and left arm that he said were from the stun gun probes. He had a second set of lighter marks that were a few inches apart near the center of his back, which he said were also from the stun gun.

“If you Taser me walking toward you, I should have Taser marks on my chest or my legs,” Jackson said. “They’re on my back.”

Asked about Jackson’s description of what happened, Moss said, “He may have turned at the last second, I don’t know.” He said more details may be available Thursday.

Jackson’s fiancé, NaShaun Howard, also of Normal, said she and Jackson were trying to gather people to leave when he was hit in the back with probes from a stun gun. She said Jackson fell and hit his face on pavement, and he had a swollen right upper lip and scuff marks on his right elbow Wednesday.

“When we were by the car, they Tased my man for no reason whatsoever,” Howard said.

Jackson was taken by ambulance to OSF St. Joseph Medical Center, where Howard said he cleaned up before being taken to the jail. She paid $100 to have him released that night, she said.

Police said people at the party threatened and threw bottles at two officers who tried to arrest James Johnson, 30, who since has been charged with two counts of aggravated battery in that attack. Johnson, of the 2400 block of East Washington Street, is the only person who faces formal criminal charges so far.

Howard said she and Jackson, also of Normal, were trying to gather people to leave when he was hit in the back with probes fired from a stun gun. He fell and hit his face on pavement. She said he was standing by her car and she did not hear an officer say anything to him before the device was used.

Howard said she was having a good time until a disc jockey said it was time to leave, and people were headed for the door as the lights went out. After moving to the parking lot, she heard shots and party-goers took cover or ran, she said.

Howard said she saw at least four people being shocked with Tasers. One of those was the guest of honor for the birthday party, she said.

White previously said the woman refused to stay in a vehicle, insisting police didn’t have a right to detain her and wrestling with officers. The woman, who did not face criminal charges by Wednesday, was in one of two vehicles close to the bullet casings found in the parking lot. Officers detained people in those cars in case one of them fired the shots, he said.

Officers from five state, county and local agencies were called to help Bloomington police. White previously said the initial fight spawned smaller fights inside the lodge and the parking lot.

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Officers arrested one man on battery charges and five people on accusations they resisted police in a gathering that turned into a series of fights starting about 1 a.m. Sunday at the Elks Lodge, 110 N. Madison St.
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Reader comments on this story - 129 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

ifyouonlyhadabrain wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:03 AM:

" Which brings me to my next point. Every time the race card is pulled, the poverty card always follows. And the only thing I have to say about that, is Boo-Hoo. I grew up in a violent, drug-filled, poverty-line household and yet I have never robbed anybody, or pulled a gun on anyone. Because I CHOOSE to be a better person. I learned from others mistakes, and sought a better life for myself. I decided for myself the life i wanted to live. We are not in some third-world country and this is after all, the 21st century. If you cannot make it on your own here and now, doing it the right way, then it's because you choose to live that life. Grow up, quit feeling sorry for yourself, quit making excuses, and accept responsibility for yourself. We are all creatures of free will, and the choices you make are your own, noone else's. "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 3, 2008 2:07 PM:

" as Cartman says " you must respect my authority!" "

good ol boy wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:36 AM:

" Get real people, the cops showed up to a big fight, you didn't do what you were told and you got zapped!!! End of story. I don't care if you are black, white, brown, yellow, it doesn't matter! When the cop says " GET DOWN" or 'FREZE" you do it and no problems arise. You don't do it you get what you got coming to you. "

Political Heretic wrote on Apr 1, 2008 8:15 PM:

" Wow. And with that profound insight into the human condition we end this conversation. Take it easy, Easy. "

easy wrote on Apr 1, 2008 6:45 PM:

" Allow me to paraphrase Socrates, I drank what now?
Get over yourself "

Political Heretic wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:50 PM:

" To easy. I've overcome a mountain of adversity in my life, and have defeated it to become the successful man I am today. If I told you about my childhood, you'd wonder why I don't have bodies buried in my back yard. And yes, I do think I have some good ideas. Ideas that have come not from listening to some shouting head that dumbs down the issues into a bumper sticker slogan, but from extensive research, reading, and contemplative analysis. Hate intellectuals? Want to beat them up? Figures. Allow me to paraphrase Socrates, whom I'm sure you've never read. If my words anger you, then that is merely proof that I am telling the truth. "

easy wrote on Mar 31, 2008 6:38 PM:

" Well Mr. Heretic. You see I must resort to"empty insults" because The Pantagraph will not display the words I would like to use. And I know there's no way to ever actually meet with you as I figure you to be one of those hide behind the keyboard guys, with an opinion about everything and a clue about nothing. You're a kid who hasn't faced real trials that life dishes out and an expert on what the world needs. Have a nice life. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 31, 2008 9:02 AM:

" To Jipsi. No misreading on your part, my friend. You made a valid point and I conceded it. Much better than people like Easy with empty insults. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:33 AM:

" (cont.) to PH:
... I would suggest you try balancing between the spectrum a little more to center, though, than idling in the cynical, jaded ("black") end. It's misery down there.
And I truly am sorry I wasn't able to view your #3 and #4.
Thanks for the cryptic/grudging (I may have misread it) respect: I'll remember that in the future if and when we wind up at polar ends of a heated discussion.

And I was not telling something for the sake of winning.
Not in me.

But I have said enough, and promised some people I will not continue "informing" in this particular topic. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:32 AM:

" to Political Heretic: God forbid anyone reading this think I'm on YOUR side, but I've never disrespected anyone who can (and will) "call a spade a spade".
There's black, and there's white (metaphors, people): some see nothing but 'white", and others see only 'black'. Then there are those who quite literally stand in the middle of 'grey'.
I don't like any of those three positions carved out for me. I will bob in the top end of the "black" and swing back up to the darker side of "white", pausing momentarily in the "grey". In short, I want to be as informed as possible, hurt as few people as possible, while searching every angle possible in discussions. I HATE deceit, and frequently "suspect" it more often than not. It's the way of the world these days.
(cont.)
"

easy wrote on Mar 31, 2008 12:27 AM:

" I've written it before and here again. Boy that heretic guy sure can quack. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 30, 2008 12:11 PM:

" Niiiiiicccccce! Post parts 1, 2, and 5, but not parts 3 and 4. So, the readers may ask, what is different about the parts that weren't posted? Let me tell you. They contained a persuasive and factual argument, carefully pruned of rumor, slander, and judgments concerning current trials, for why I don't trust the local police and believe many of them (not all) to be bigoted and hot headed individuals who join the force because they enjoy power, especially over "the other". My wife's right. I really need my own blog. Scared of the cops, Pantagraph? You're right. You should be. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:55 AM:

" To Jipsi. Part 5.Which brings us to the race issue again. I’d love to believe there are African-Americans in the local police force, but once again, I know some people will say anything to win an argument. However, I will keep an eye out for them and am willing, even wanting, to be proved wrong on this point. Here too you are wrong about me. My beliefs are subject to change in the face of superior information. Have a good one, my friend. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:54 AM:

" To Jipsi. Part 2. However, I would not call myself paranoid. And yes, I have wondered that sometimes, which ironically could be considered being paranoid about being paranoid. I would, however, assert that most people have an emotional need to believe in the previously mentioned institutions and glaze over their flaws even when contradictory data is plentiful; it keeps life simple and secure. This is an indulgence I could not afford, and would not have survived and prospered as I have if I had not become the jaded, cynical person I am today. Most people consider this a bad thing. I consider it an asset and advantage. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:53 AM:

" To Jipsi. Part 1. I’m impressed! You have some real insights into my personality that you’ve obviously gleaned from my posts over the months. Yes, I do go for the jugular for the sake of it, and I am an angry man. The former is because I’ve become used to debating with right-wingers like Modulation who will use ANY tactic to win a debate and care little for what the truth is, and admittedly I sometimes fail to change strategy when dealing with more reasonable people. For example, I feel guilty for offending Paladin by painting him with that wide brush he mentioned. Mea Culpa, so I will put the knives away for this post, okay? The latter is because I’ve seen how justified misanthropy really is; how every institution we are taught to trust and believe in is commonly corrupted by human failings and ends up persecuting the innocent and defending the guilty. This includes friends, family, lovers/spouses, the government, the schools, the church, business/employers, the military, health professionals, and of course, law enforcement. I’ve been betrayed by all of them, and have seen similar experiences among those I know. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 29, 2008 1:04 PM:

" (cont.)
He didn't get one single "special favor" because of his race, as there were others who did make the grade, earlier on, and many of them were non-white.
The whole family was affected in his pursuit of this career, and there were holidays he spent away from home in training, for months at a time, . Sacrifice.
Even WE almost told him to find something else to go after...
So.
If one race makes up 2% of the population, and another comprises 18%, and still another at 62% (these are for example only, they're not real numbers), then it stands to follow the ratio of the force might parallel those percentages.
And it does.
But it's damn hard work, and I appreciate every young man or woman who not only make it their calling, but continue to do so in the unforgiving glare of so many who DO NOT appreciate that these are REAL people (brothers, sisters, husbands, fathers and sons, etc.) making real sacrifices in their personal and professional lives to "protect and serve" US.
And, on that note... I'm not here to fight with you, or anyone else.
I'm off for more pleasant topics (and people). "

jipsi wrote on Mar 29, 2008 12:59 PM:

" (cont)
My source is a BPD officer, in the family.
There's a lot of enraged ranting here for "proof" and "evidence", and it just can't be "given" out to satisfy the unreasonable because there are PEOPLE involved, FAMILIES... and potential legal skirmishes in the near future, none of which involve YOU, but all of which can be HARMED if information gets leaked before it serves justice.

You can take it or leave it. Because at this point, even names and addresses and video evidence won't settle your anger and indignance. You'll just find another point to argue, another truth to shred, because, since you were NOT "there", you will believe NOTHING that you don't want to believe.

There might be MORE AA's on the roster IF more applied. Of those that do, and this includes all races, most are declined because they do not have enough training, experience, or, quite simply, that another, with MORE experience and training, turns up. I know this, because my friend, who is white, spent 4 years trying to become an Officer. He had to complete training so rigorous that many who started beside him quit along the way or were failed. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 29, 2008 12:35 PM:

" I'm going to favor P. Heretic with some knowledge and then butt out, because I've been a target of some mighty odd and malicious folk, as of late, most likely for *my* particular style and grasp of the "art of debate", myself. More often than I'd like, and certainly more often than warranted...

GOM can be accused of rubbing people the wrong way now and then, but, PH, you go after the jugular every time, and, worse (and you KNOW this) frequently just for the SAKE of it.
You're like an angry man with a manifesto that you're daring people to read and then damning them for doing so: are you quite SURE you're not just a little paranoid?
You've attacked every commenter who's arrived to spar with you (only YOU'RE throwing knives, not punches!), doubtless myself included, but if your whole rant's core is the need of an answer to that ONE question, then I will answer it.
There are several AA's in the BPD.
And you KNOW I can't give you "names" because I have the decency not to do something both dishonorable and illegal. (cont.) "

jipsi wrote on Mar 29, 2008 11:25 AM:

" P.Heretic: You mentioned: "some who is trying to escape, as opposed to someone who is attacking you".
I am shocked that you, with your rabid knowledge, do not already know this.
Today's LE don't follow "laws of the Old West"... this was not a duel or shootout where there was "dishonor" in shooting a man in the back!
The taser is used to SUBDUE someone out-of-control, not just to prevent someone from attacking.
Could it be that the attacker, when he saw the taser/heard the warning, at that moment decided to turn and run, just as the clips were snaking towards him? YES!

In most cases, the person being tased tries to outrun or dodge it. Sometimes they succeed.
To suggest that LE should follow some warped kind of "street honor" (as in, not shooting/tasing someone in the back) is ludicrous. Again, they had to use the taser to subdue, to stop, the assailant, from leaving the scene!
When you're busted, you're BUSTED and will be STOPPED, whether by officers tackling you or using their taser! One doesn't get a "get out of jail free" card just because they SHOW THEIR BACKSIDE and run. "

Anchor wrote on Mar 28, 2008 8:54 PM:

" I'm out...this conversation is at its grand conclusion...finger pointing and name calling...enjoy "

happy one wrote on Mar 28, 2008 5:55 PM:

" to heretic: hope your weekend is enjoyable. I also am done with this, your views are your views- as are mine. Last statement I will make in reference to your comments about myself are: am not racist as you implied ( impossible in my family, we are rainbow of races), and am not trying to impend social progress of females ( I love my gender and would like us to move up the social ladder of success). Thought for the weekend "Just because your paranoid, doesn't mean their not out to get you". Have fun "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:27 PM:

" To happy one. Now it’s you turn. Once again, despite having similar rhetorical styles, I cannot say with absolute certainty that you are Modulation, even if you both use the thesaurus slam among other tactics. By the way, this really is the way I talk in real life. Philosophy major; forever afflicted with the need to look up and learn every word I come across that I don’t know. Anyhow, you seem to claim there is more than one African-American police officer in the local force. I hope this is true and will continue to research it, but I doubt any of them were at this incident, as I believe the situation may not have gone as badly as it did if they were. Oh well…since this debate would have to shift to what proper police tactic is in a situation like this, I’m willing to concede my limited knowledge and am off to my weekend. My suspicions, however, along with the suspicions of others, remain. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:57 PM:

" To Sweetie. Nah. I'm not paranoid. If I was paranoid I'd already be convinced all three of you were the same person conspiring against me. As it is, it was just a theory subject to further data. After careful analysis of the three posting styles, however, I see it's quite possible you are just similar to Modulation in certain mannerisms but a different person all together. Ultimately, I must admit, I don't have enough data to make an absolute assertion. Please understand, I stomped Modulation hard on another debate and even inducted his real identity, so he's probably steaming mad, wanting revenge, and desperate to get it. As far as changing my mind...I'm willing to believe it's possible that the cop you know isn't racist, at least overtly, although tasing some who is trying to escape, as opposed to someone who is attacking you, seems to me the act of someone wanting power instead of self-preservation. However, some of your statements do seem bigoted, as they imply racism and poverty is completely the fault of the African-Americans who experience it. Oh well, it IS central Illinois. The people in Chicago don’t call us hicks for nothing. "

sweetie wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:22 PM:

" Heretic-you caught me.......I am really just one person under 3 names. You really do think the whole world is out to get you don't you? Anyway, I'm done....no more from me on this subject. I'm pretty sure that I could talk til I'm blue in the face and you will not change your mind. For the record, I want to think that the world will some day not see color..........but until the color stops making themselves stand out so to say, it won't happen. God bless and have a great weekend. "

happy one wrote on Mar 28, 2008 2:30 PM:

" to heretic: sorry am not your old nemesis. The name I use is from one of my grandkids CD's that happened to be by my PC. It was as good as any other and I am usually a happy person. I feel that your arguments are repetitive, no matter what the subject of the article. Mule tends to make a better argument. He also doesn't sound like he has a thesaurus at his elbow looking to impress others. The main subject of this article is police and how they reacted to a threatening situation. I feel that it is was not racially motivated. I know AA officers on the force, also female officers. The officers at the scene were treating the situation the way it needed to be handled. It could have been worse if they had not quickly got it under control. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 28, 2008 2:13 PM:

" To Sweetie. Now YOU'RE sounding like Modulation too! The use of heavy sarcasm, horrible punctuation, confusion between universal and existential quantifiers, and latent disdain for the social progress of non-whites and women almost makes me think both "Sweetie" and "happy one" are the same person. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Modulation, knowing he can't take me in a straight forward debate, were trying to make it appear as if I were being challenged by two other people who, of course, just happen to have the exact same rhetorical style? Nonetheless, if you haven't noticed, I've yet to find an online source and my physical sources haven't been able to confirm that there are AA cops in BN so far. I openly admit this. Rolls Eyes claims there, at least, was one at one time, but they haven't answered my question to clarify if they are still on the force. Thus, the research continues. By the way, I never called everyone else a moron, and that too is the kind of argumentation style Modulation uses. Hmmmmmmm. "

sweetie wrote on Mar 28, 2008 1:18 PM:

" If it matters so much to you how many AA cops are on the police force why don't you look in that land of information that you're so good at spouting? I'm sure it's somewhere in a book, the internet, or some other form of informational guide. I believe they are under the same guidelines as other professions and have to have a certain amount of women and minorities to meet their "quota". Anyway, why don't you go do some fact finding for the rest of us morons who are obviously not as smart as you and get back to us? Thanks "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 28, 2008 10:50 AM:

" To rolls eyes. Thank you for your input. Do you happen to remember the officer's name or when you received that ticket? I ask because I seem to remember an African-American ex-cop was suing a local police department a year or so ago and I wish to assure that we aren't talking about the same man. Of course, I could just call the local police department and ask, but I like my life too much to reveal my identity to them. "

*rolls eyes* wrote on Mar 28, 2008 10:28 AM:

" Hertic - You are wrong. There are AA police officers in B-N. I know because I've been pulled over and ticketed by them. I also happen to be what you would call "a rich white guy" should I assume I was ticketed because the officers were black and I was white? Maybe they were jealous of my flashy car and "white status?" Ridiculous. I got pulled over because I was speeding/running lights. Those people at the party got tasered because they were throwing bottles and resisting. Apparently there were shots fired at some point. How do you expect officers to react in that kind of situation - by using harsh language? "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 28, 2008 10:07 AM:

" To happy one. If I repeat my arguments, it's only because the personal attacks I receive are also repeated and I'm consistent in my answers to them. Wow. You sound just like Modulation. You’re full of accusations of arrogance and a know-it-all attitude on my part in response to rhetoric that is the product of neither. I issue Mea Culpas when presented with better arguments or superior information, but I also stand firm when I feel my posts represent reality even if they are met with a wave of criticism. I’m used to being treated like a pariah, but considering how many times I’ve turned out to be right when the masses have been wrong (Iraq War, GWB, sub-prime loans, global warming, etc…), I’ve learned to blow it off in favor of seeking better data and advancing the debate. By the way, you wouldn’t happen to BE Modulation, would you? I’d hate to think my friend was a coward hiding behind a new alias eerily similar to my old one, the Happy Cynic. Now, do you have a criticism of my arguments as pertains to this article, or do you just want to insult me more? "

happy one wrote on Mar 28, 2008 7:00 AM:

" re heretic: I know you like nothing better than to draw people into the same old arguement you have on other articles. It never changes. You talk about yourself with "such importance", you like to toot your own horn. It doesn't make you any better than anyone else because of the language you choose to use. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 28, 2008 5:26 AM:

" To Sweetie. You don't feel the need to pick fights? They why the incendiary comment aimed towards me? "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 8:51 PM:

" Nice try, happy one. Call me names all you want, but what you lack is a supporting argument. You say the points I attempt to make show me to be a racist. Which ones? What overall pattern of my arguments indicate such an irrational hatred of those who differ from me? Fact is, I know myself, I know I give everyone a fair shake, and a thousand people like yourself posting their slander will not sway me one inch in this self-perception. As for being a man of little importance...I can't say I've ever aspired to great power and wealth and am more than happy where I am on the socio-economic ladder, so you can stuff that jab too. I prefer to strive for knowledge, wisdom, and compassion instead, as out of style as they are in our shallow, gluttonous, heartless consumer society. In my view, those of "great importance" often loose themselves in their quest to obtain that status, and I sleep well at night knowing I have not. By the way, this is a forum, not a blog. Oh yeh, I despise Reader's Digest. I read books instead, which is why my vocabulary ROCKS! "

sweetie wrote on Mar 27, 2008 8:34 PM:

" Heretic, I unlike you, do not find it necessary to pick fights with everyone that posts on this story. Once again.........have a great day and keep on making excuses for what YOU do and what you think has occurred to every AA in the world. "

happy one wrote on Mar 27, 2008 6:20 PM:

" right on Sweetie, someone needs to get a life. I think it gives someone a chance to use the "big words" they learned from reading Reader's digest. Heretic is a racist , just by the points he attempts to make. They show his true self, a man of little importance in the real world. He has to create something in blogs. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 2:12 PM:

" Get a dictionary, Sweetie. Higher discourse sometimes requires "big words". Typical anti-intellectual American. Sigh. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 1:52 PM:

" To Mule. It's not just your lack of supporters that lead me to believe there are no AA cops in BN, but the bewildered looks of my local friends when I ask for confirmation. I invite anyone reading this to supply me with the name of any AA policeperson in the BN area. As for Mencia...he's a great comedian, but I wouldn't accept his "racial" bit as a piece of solid political philosophy. However, I get your meaning and recant and apologize for my “racialist” rant. Meanwhile, if my positions seem inconsistent, perhaps it's your reading of my posts that are the issue. To quote another comedian, the late great Bill Hicks, I don't hate anyone based on their race. I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis. :) As for the Phish concert, I remember the incident and am not surprised the police turned to violence against those who defy their drug war, which also greatly benefits their white corporate masters and disproportionately incarcerates minorities. While I concede that being white doesn’t make you immune to police prejudice (especially if you’re a longhair or poor), in both incidences, the same agenda is fulfilled. "

SWEETIE wrote on Mar 27, 2008 1:31 PM:

" I think Mule and Heretic need to start emailing each other directly or agree to disagree. Geesh. As for the cops being racist that were at the scene, that is laughable, if you knew one of the cops that was there and had to tase the girl you would know it wasn't race motivated. However, I think you are just having too much fun typing your big words and trying to act smarter than you probably are. Either way, have a great day and keep making excuses for the AA race. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 27, 2008 1:17 PM:

" Not sure why my last post didn't make it so I'll retry. Let's put the show on the other foot for a moment. In 1999 when Phish came to Normal, a man was arrested for having a pipe with Marijuanna residue in it, people got mad at the cops and started acting in a similar manner as was here. The police got out riot gear and tear gas (this was before tasers were as prevelant in our society as they are now). Where were you then? Because this was "white people" the police over reacting to their situation is excused? It's the same circumstance yet different races, with the police acting in the same manner. AGAIN RACE WAS NOT AN ISSUE. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 27, 2008 12:21 PM:

" cont'd now let's put the shoe on the other foot. Last time the Normal police got out their RIOT gear was during a Phish concert in 1999. If you are unfamiliar with Phish, they are the biggest peace loving hippieish band around. Yet a riot ensued when a man was arrested for having drug paraphanalia. This is the same instance (excpet tasers had yet to become widespread) so did these police react this way because of race? Same circumstances different arguement. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 27, 2008 11:55 AM:

" cont'd And to associate the two just shows how dilluted from reality you are. Please take a moment to re-read your last 3 or 4 posts and tell me honestly they are not filled with racism ( or as some are now calling it reverse racism). In one post you slander the majority of, if not all AA. In the next you are basically slandering anyone who caucassion. Please stop thinking in these terms. It's criminals vs police. I have one of the most anti-police stances of anyone I know, yet these tasing were warranted and I, as a citizen of Bloomington and resident in that neighborhood, am glad they acted as they did before a full scale riot took place. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 27, 2008 11:54 AM:

" Ok, maybe you can't read so I will spell it out. NOT R-A-C-I-A-L-I-S-T but R-A-C-I-A-L. Big difference, never seen Mind of Mencia? He's RACIAL not RACIST ( I follow the same "doctrine", if you will) While I feel you have a valid point on the status of our society we are talking about criminals being tased at the ELK'S CLUB, not in the middle of the ghetto. so your statement "unjustified persecution" in this case (as well as most of your other posts) is completely ignorant. And your assumption that their are no African Americans on the police force because somebody refuses to argue against such a weak stance as yours only proves your mentality and mindset. While I stand by my previous statement of you having a valid point in our NATION social interactions, this is AGAIN not the case here. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 10:57 AM:

" To Mule. Part 2. The answer to anyone who has studied business history in America is: absolutely not. Yet certain people are supposed to operate within those confining parameters anyway. Nietzsche had a term for that: slave morality, and it’s particularly apt in this situation as white people still seem to think African-Americans should be as supine a population as when they were enslaved, ignoring those that resisted and fled, of course. When they aren’t, it’s considered to be “their fault”. Meanwhile, Paladin seems to have slipped away from our discussion, which tells me there ARE NO BLACK POLICEPERSONS in BN. Thus, this incident involved a bunch of white policemen tasing and “seeking to control” a bunch of black people. And I’m not supposed to believe racism has anything to do with this?!? As the great Colonel Sherman T. Potter said, “HORSE HOCKEY!”. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 10:56 AM:

" To Mule. Part 1. Ah! A racialist, eh? This weak attempt to disguise racist beliefs belongs to the rhetoric of people like David Duke, I believe. My dictionary defines racism as "a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement". No mention of "excusing" crime due to environmental factors whatsoever. Plus you forget that I included poor white people in my formulation, and would gladly include the impoverished of any "race" as well. In addition, my dictionary defines racialism as synonymous with racism, and considering the people I've met who identify with the term "racialist", I’d agree. Finally, I don't say anyone's behavior is "excusable" because of the conditions of their upbringing, but it's certainly understandable that people with disadvantaged backgrounds would act out against a society that allows, or even condones, their unjustified persecution. What point is there to obeying the rules when they are rigged against you and the most successful people in our society break them openly all the time? As Ice Cube’s character in Boyz n the Hood said while pointing at the corporate skyline of his home city, “You think THEY did THAT the RIGHT WAY?” "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 27, 2008 9:36 AM:

" TO:HERETIC

No, it is not racist, but racial. Learn the difference. I am a racial person (everyone is yet most won't admit it) but I am not racist in anyway. Being racial is acknowledging the fact that there are different races and they do have differences (be it health or social) being a racist is excusing criminal behavior based on those differences.The laws apply for everyone, not just white people. Like I stated in my previous post I acknowledge the fact that racism does exist in police forces (maybe even ours) BUT this case was NOT AN EXAMPLE OF RACIAL PREJUDICE. To imply (or even state as you have) that the police overreaccted is absurd and very ignorant (meaning uninformed). But to have the audacity to state that their behavior was excusable because they are AA and have been raised different (see post on 3/20 4:26 PM where you state "This is what they were raised around. This is life to them") now that sir (and I use that term loosely) is racism in the extreme! I am actually ashamed to even be "talking" to you right now. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 8:53 AM:

" To Paladin. By the way, since you're involved in law enforcement, could you please confirm what Mule said about there being African-Americans in the police force? You never answered me, and I have reason to doubt Mule's testimony. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 27, 2008 8:34 AM:

" By the way, Mule, in your last post you asserted that the probably reason the their being African-American cops on the west side was just so people like me couldn't complain about racism in the police force. Isn't THAT racist? Considering it implies that those African-American police aren't there due to their own abilities, talents, and accomplishments, but only due to some sort of law enforcement affirmative action, I'd say it is. Live in a glass house? "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 26, 2008 1:01 PM:

" To Mule. Now it is YOU who are over generalizing. I never said ALL African-Americans are raised in bad environments nor have bad coping mechanisms. I’ve known many whites to have the same attributes. The difference is that they don’t tend to wind up in jail or prison at nearly the same rate despite committing the same or worse crimes, a factor I attribute to prejudice in the courts and more intense scrutiny by the police. I’m glad to hear that African Americans are a part of our police force (even if I’ve never seen one), as they deserve to be represented in all areas of our society. And I do visit the west side, as I have friends there. I also never asserted that the party attendants “did nothing wrong”. In fact, I believe I granted that very point. Now, if you have a gripe with my opinion as stated and meant, I’d be glad to debate it with you. I will not, however, be made a straw man with charges of racism that are unfounded and untrue. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 26, 2008 12:22 PM:

" CONT'D TO HERETIC:

You are portraying either a corrupt police force that broke up a peaceful AA gathering (which throwing beer bottles at people and shooting weapons doesn't seem peaceful to me) or you are saying ALL AA have non sufficient coping mechanisms and will attack officers at sight? So which is it? And to answer your question to Paladin, YES! There are AA officers on the force. I see them in my neighborhood all the time. Maybe if you came over to the Westside you would see them, as that's where they seem to patrol (maybe to defend against ignorant people who claim racism as soon as an AA gets arrested or tased). "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 26, 2008 12:19 PM:

" TO:HERETIC

First off to answer your question, no I am not an AA, however I live in an "AA community." Secondly I am scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel. I only have internet because of my job, not only do I not have internet, I don't have television and have to heat my house to a frigid 58 in winter to afford my gas, so I'm not sure where you get your info but you're mistaken. So now you are arguing the reason these criminals act this way is because of their upbringing. But I thought they did nothing wrong and were being wrongly targeted for being black? So which is it? Did the cops target them for being black or did they act like criminals because of their upbringing? If they acted like criminals then they got what they deserved. If they were targeted due to race then why do you bring up there upbringing? Unless you are saying all AA's are raised with defunct coping mechanisms which is why I call you a racist. cont'd.... "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 26, 2008 9:54 AM:

" To Paladin. For some reason the Pantagraph keeps censoring me, so let me restate my previous response in a softer manner. I apologize if you feel I am over generalizing, but the fact of the matter is that the police DO treat different people differently. Is it because of race? Is it because of class? Either way, it is true. One question since you are involved in LE: Are there ANY African-Americans now working for the police in BN? I don't mean janitors and the like, but people who actually help enforce the law on the street or in the station. I seem to remember they were being sued by one (an ex-cop) a year or so ago because they were (allegedly) being prejudiced against and denied a promotion they had earned. This, if true, says a lot about racial attitudes in the force. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen a non-white cop in BN myself. Why don't African-Americans join the local police in higher numbers? Is it that they simply aren't attracted to the LE profession, or is it that they would feel like a traitor to their ethnicity instead? Please educate me. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 25, 2008 7:24 PM:

" To Mule. I tried posting back to you on Friday, but it was censored. So let me say the same thing. First of all, are you African-American? Because until I hear one tell me I'm wrong I laugh at the charges against me. I understand you were once poor. So was I (part of the reason law enforcement targeted me), but that doesn't necessarily make you a counter-example to my argument and certainly doesn't invalidate my point overall. Everyone on the forum in on the internet, which means they AREN'T scrapping the bottom of the barrel economically. As far as CHOOSING to act like a criminal, perhaps I should point out that our thought processes are formed during childhood, and when we allow millions of children to be raised in abusive, impoverished, and violent situations, you can bet their coping mechanisms and sense of survival will produce undesirable results. Not because they CHOOSE to be “evil”, but because that’s what’s allowed them to survive and prosper. This opinion may not be very John Wayne, but it does have the virtue of being true. "

Paladin wrote on Mar 25, 2008 5:19 PM:

" To "Political Heretic": ...I'm having trouble counting the ways I resent your remark. I have been the object of legal prejudice. I have had to scurry from legitimate authority, when my own view of "inalienable human rights" has dictated that I stand strong and be defiant. I have carried the burden of "legitimate authority", myself, and have mitigated it with my own leadership style, and my own sense of the fact that law enforcement is supposed to be passive, until it is FORCED to be otherwise. Try not to paint us all with one brush, if you don't mind... "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 25, 2008 4:58 PM:

" TO:HERETIC

Again you try to blame the "rich white folks" for everything. Your arguements smell alot like my grand fathers cattle farm (specifically the "presents" they leave). I again state I am not a RICH white person, in fact I'm not even classified as a lower middle class white person. I am poor. I have been on the wrong side of the law (too many times to count.) BUT I GUARANTEE that if anytime the cops showed up, I CHOOSE to act like a criminal and throw beer bottles at an officer I would EXPECT to be tased or shot. Just because these party goers were black we are supposed to excuse criminal behavior from them? I again state you slap every African American in the face when you associate them with these criminals. This wasn't a case of police breaking up and attacking a group of AA who chose to gather peacefully. They are a group of people, who when the police arrived to arrest ONE PERSON who hit someone with a beer bottle, CHOOSE to turn into criminals by throwing bottles (called assaulting a peace officer.) "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 25, 2008 4:50 PM:

" Speaking of inverse logic...I meant to say that there IS a racial component to this incident...not isn't. Mea Culpa. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 25, 2008 3:50 PM:

" To Anchor. Watch out, buddy. Don't dare try to argue to this group of soft, spoiled, rich white people, who've NEVER been harassed by the police and thus are naive enough to believe in their benevolence, that there isn't a racial component to this incident. They'll, in some sort of inverse logic, call you a racist! Of course, anyone with any sense knows that if this party crowd were filled with rich white folks, they could have been wielding rocket launchers and the police would STILL have been more lenient that they were in this incident. Unfortunately, too many forum posters obviously don't interact with anyone or anything outside of their safe, cushy, W.A.S.P.y world, and thus are completely unable to empathize with any other perspective. Cooperate with the police and you'll be fine? Sure. If you're one of the individuals I just described. Otherwise, you're rolling the dice with your life. "

Anchor wrote on Mar 25, 2008 2:00 PM:

" Make a race thing out of it if you want to...a case can be made for the racial component in this situation...But I will restate my point from earlier...If you don't want to get ZAPPED by the police...don't be there when they arrive. Any adult knows when a party is out of hand and the police are most likely coming. Any black adult knows when more than five black people are together ouside, the police are 1) going to be called 2) going to be ready for action when they get there 3) going to (7 times out of 10) create a reason to take some one to jail or hit some one in the head. If you are caught in such a situation I say you are either ignorant or just not old enough to know better...or maybe both. "

Reluctant_Transplant wrote on Mar 24, 2008 8:14 AM:

" Call me dumb but if the party size was to be 75 and it rose to hundreds, why didn't building management or the party hostess do something to ensure those attending were actually invited? To go from 75 to hundreds is stupid crazy. "

HappyInIllinois wrote on Mar 23, 2008 11:04 AM:

" If anyone thinks that police were arresting or tasing people because of being minorities GIVE ME A BREAK. The police reacted to a situation that they were thrown into because of out of control behavior and disrespect for the law....And I am pretty sure they would have reacted the same no matter who was inside the building at the time....They are the law and if you choose not to abide by the law or pretend you are above the law then you deal with the consequences of your actions.....Don't cry about it now or convince yourself that it was racially motivated, If your not doing anything wrong the cops won't even show up at your parties..... "

Capitalist Oppressor wrote on Mar 21, 2008 3:02 PM:

" If you're going to provoke a fight with somebody, don't do it with a cop. Its just stupid. That's not even considering the fact that he has a gun/taser and you (probably) don't. The people that got tazed got what they deserved. People are lucky they didn't get shot - especially once some idot started shooting. "

Shadow wrote on Mar 21, 2008 7:39 AM:

" The only thing that could have improved this incident at the Elks Lodge was a lot more cops firing a lot more tasers.
"

normalguy wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:59 AM:

" If our cops had a clue and were not so overly sensitized to arresting minorities and preventing minority crimes this would never have happened. lets not forget if these two cops had not gone in alone, and had they called for backup, the naacp crowd would have had their heads for overreacting to a black party. the cops tried to give these folks a chance to diffuse their own party, so the cops wouldnt have to do anything, and it backfired. Side note. In my job i talk to B/N cops almost weekly and i know how pathetic they are. "

110100100 wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:26 AM:

" I agree that in this situation, the cops did the right thing. This was an unruly, violent, drunken mob. At that point I would have put the taser away and pulled out the Glock. "

happy one wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:29 PM:

" to mule; I agree with you, heretic is only trying to goad you on. Don't let him push your buttons- you have the better argument. This is not a racial thing, but a "get the situation under control" thing that happened. Too much is assumed by a article that really doesn't give all the details.Just general information that is built up to "racial attack", when it was really the officers getting the situation under control. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 5:03 PM:

" TO: Heretic
I don't care what you believe about my upbring, but I assure you I am not one of these rich State Farmers. I indeed grew up DIRT poor (had to often go without eating and still do to make ends meet on occasion)I in fact grew up in Chicago's inner city for several months. While this doesn't make me an expert on the conditions of the "black society" it did give me an internal view of the system. While racial profiling does exist on many levels by the police, THIS WAS NOT A CASE OF RACIAL PROFILING. I don't know how much clearer I can say it. This was a case of criminals and a few others who got drunk, rowdy and out of hand. The police responded and handled the situation before a riot ensued. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:59 PM:

" TO:110100100
I agree with what you are saying about prohibition as I am one of the staunchiest supporters of ending the illegal war on drugs. But what I'm taking from Heretic's arguements are the simple fact that this is a "black" issue. It is not. The people who were tazed were either 1. criminals 2. associating with criminals (while I don't condone tazing them I understand where mistakes could be made) or 3. under investigation for crimes and were fleeing the scene. I don't see how there was a problem tazing them and to say it was because they are black is horse hockey.
"

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:26 PM:

" To Gov't oppressed Mule. Well, I do believe that, no matter how you interpret my words. I doubt you came from the extreme adversity children in the inner cities, or even among the rural poor, come from, and I doubt your definition of "poor" is the same as what they face if they try to follow a legal path of employment. Once again, you use the word "choose" in a situation where people aren't aware of, or believe in, alternatives. This is what they were raised around. This is life to them. Unless another force can show them a better way, and give them a chance to achieve that other way, they will take the path that their social support system sanctions. Sad but true. People aren't born into this world thugs. The world makes them thugs. "

110100100 wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:24 PM:

" Gov't oppressed Mule, I think you're over simplifying Heretic's argument. Many people from poor communities will never have the chance to gain a decent education or decent job skills. Even if they do manage to acquire an education, they're faced with employers who often are reluctant to hire minorities. As for dealing drugs, why not? This is a capitalist society. Why should people be banned from selling a product that customers so eagerly buy. The entire war on drugs is an utter failure anyways. Prohibitions NEVER work in capitalist societies. They only create and fuel black markets. If I had to choose between flipping burgers and selling crack, I would sell crack. Fortunately, I don't have to make that kind of choice. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:24 PM:

" TO: Heretic

I do, but by your own statements you don't. You just stated that given a choice that the kids will choose to be drug dealers as a way not to slave their life away just to be poor. I do that everyday, I could have chosen to deal drugs, but I don't. Why should we excuse these criminals because they couldn't make the right choice? "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:06 PM:

" To Gov't oppressed Mule. I understand your concern, but I failed to see how my general statement about children wanting to becomes drug dealers impunes an entire race. This can be true about anyone, couldn't it? And I'd hardly say they CHOSE to become criminals, at least in all cases. Given the choice, I tend to believe the vast majority of people would prefer a legitimate, legal method of making a living that didn't endanger their lives and risk imprisonment. Don't you? "

Anchor wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:00 PM:

" Oh, and I also wanted to say to: bill vit

You seem very comfortable being a bigot. I wish you luck with that. "

Anchor wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:59 PM:

" If I were in a crowd and things started to go "South" the first thing I would do is LEAVE! If you are standing around watching things go bad...then you are in the proverbial, "wrong place at the wrong time". If ANY ONE knows to leave this situation it is us Black people. As a black person, you should know the Police will hit you in the head for just being there...LEAVE. If you stay...I hate to say it, but you are asking to get shocked, shot, bitten, or hit in the head with something. I am not saying it is right, I am saying it is true. And if you think you will get some kind of justice for being hit in the head for nothing...I wish you luck. Trust me....just turn on your heels and go somewhere else. Doesn't make you a punk, it makes you smart. "

Paladin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:53 PM:

" ...being a white civilian in Northern Africa makes you pretty much a target for anyone, police included. After being threatened at knife-point in a robbery attempt (I avoided getting robbed, because I am pretty well trained, actually), the cop I complained to told me he knew who to ask for help, and pointed out the attacker. Does that count? That's only one country out of several, but it certainly helped me figure out where not to go, ever again... I'm not saying we don't have corrupt cops, but I don't believe their corruption is as institutionalized as it is in some other places on the globe. This is after having lived overseas for over a decade, and having been to over 20 countries on (only) 4 continents (so far). "

Country Boy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:50 PM:

" I dont get all the arguments here, there was criminal activity going on, the cops were outnumbered and they took control of the situation with what they were taught at the academy and people were arrested, end of story. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:28 PM:

" TO:HERETIC

You stated it best in your last post "Children don't tend to dream of growing up to be a drug dealer unless they see that as the best, maybe only, chance they have of not slaving away just to be dirt poor for the rest of their lives." So because a few people choose to be criminals you continue insulting the whole race? These criminals tend to gather at certain events, the one described here is a perfect example. So a party containing a few criminals is broken up and the guilty parties (ALLEGEDLY) are arrested and tazed it all of a sudden becomes Racial Profiling? Your mentality is the type that keeps these ideas alive and instead of letting the police do their duty you instead have them afraid to do their job for fear of being sued. (wow! did I just defend the BPD?) "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:20 PM:

" That’s only two rapists, and selectively chosen from the past couple of years. What you said was that the “last 5” rapists caught here were black, an assertion you have not backed up. By the way, sometimes thugs with Napoleon complexes wear uniforms. In addition, my so-called defenses are not half-hearted, but fully-hearted, and certainly not meant to demean anyone in the minority community. However, I know, first hand, what it is to be targeted by the police because of my appearance, despite having no criminal record beyond speeding tickets. Believe me, if I had been up to ANYTHING else, they would have caught me. Until my critics experience THAT, they will never understand where I am coming from, and therefore be unable to see this issue objectively. "

muttonhead31 wrote on Mar 20, 2008 2:13 PM:

" i havn't been paying attention. Did someone play the race allegation early on in this investigation. And low and behold did it turn out to be 100 % correct. Just a nother sign of the man keeping the brothers down. "

Paladin wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:49 PM:

" ...guess what, folks? If you shoot a TASER at a crowd, sometimes you hit the wrong person. It's a lot like any other system that you aim and use over distance, like a gun or a bow system. PTI is STILL trying to codify and standardize a statewide training curriculum for TASER (and other electronic interdiction platform) usage, and (as of this writing, to my knowledge) still has no official opinion on TASERS, their alleged lethality, or overall effectiveness "on the ground". In a recent article related to TASERs, one local law enforcement Lieutenant stated that he'd rather use his TASER than chase someone down. This implies that he would "tase" someone in the back, with no problems. This further implies that he would use his TASER even though he was not being physically threatened (although he could argue he did it to protect others, this is a slippery slope argumentative dream). "

Michael wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:47 PM:

" I tried to explain why I wasn't racist, but the pantagraph censored me, they say the views expressed here have nothing to do with them, but then do this. I wasn't nasty either, but facts speak for themselves. Just because I shouldn't say something, doesn't make it false! "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:43 PM:

" To Shep. I don't claim to know exactly why minorities outrank whites in the prison system, but I'm willing to bet a lack of good schools and economic opportunities have a lot to do with it. Children don't tend to dream of growing up to be a drug dealer unless they see that as the best, maybe only, chance they have of not slaving away just to be dirt poor for the rest of their lives. I reject outright the notion that there is anything innately criminal about these people, and I think we pat ourselves on the back a little too much when we assert racism is a problem of the past and that our law enforcement doesn't profile. Maybe I worded it crudely in my original post, but that was my point. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:14 PM:

" TO: Heretic.

The 14 (maybe 15) y/o that was raped at the park off of Cottage, Olamide Adeyooye, The girl that was raped under the 55 overpass on the constitution trail, The rape (I think it was last month?) over on Market, and to be quite honest I can't think of another one off of the top of my head, but that's 4 in the past several years. Luckily this isn't a crime often perpetrated in our town, but when it does...well just look at the stats. And NO this has nothing to do with a higher scrutiny by the police in AA communities, it's the simple fact these crimes are being committed by this group, again not the AA community but THUGS (people with Napolean complexs who can't function without forcing others to comply with their wants). WHY do you continue to demean the AA community by making half hearted "defenses of them" and bringing the whole group into question? This, again, isn't black or white, but about a group driven from Chicago into our community with the THUG mentality. "

Shep wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:12 PM:

" To: Political Heretic: There are approxiamtely 2.2 million people in the prison system in the U.S. (1.4 million in prisons, 750,000 in jails). 62% of the prison population is blacks and hispanics, while they only make up 25% of the U.S. population. In the 25-29 age group of males in this country, 11.9% of black men are in the prison system, 3.9% of hispanic males, and 1.7% of white males. Do a little research, there are about 6.4 times as many blacks as whites in the prision systems. Why is that? I won't pretend to have an answer. I'm not a racist. I never have been and never will be. But if you want to play the race card in your posts, I can do it with numbers that don't lie. Bottom line is, if you comply with the police you won't get tased. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:11 PM:

" To Modulation. I'm glad something makes you happy, my friend. Tired of the old thread? It's not like you to give up. And yes, I admit I missed this detail. I usually admit my mistakes, a virtue you lack, and the main reason I surpass you in maturity despite the fact that you're twice my age. However, even when this correction is made, my main point is not invalidated by it. I still feel racism in the local law enforcement was at play here. By the way, can anyone tell me if there are any African-Americans in the Bloomington OR the Normal police force? I remember an article a while ago that one in the Bloomington force was suing them, but I'm not sure he is still with them. "

jimbo1 wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:08 PM:

" Search all of the names involved on the Mclean County Public Access.
I don't think you will be surprised. "

bill vit wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:44 PM:

" Yep, it's racist allright. When you act like animals you deseve to be treated like one. What about the Elks employees who told the "nice folks" to leave and were ignored and berated? What about the cops telling the animals to stop but the animals had to continue to riot?

If you have no respect for society and its rules, society should have no respect for you.

It's all about personal responsibility and of course, no one wants any of that because then you can't whine and complain. "

Modulation wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:20 PM:

" To Political Heretic: Wow wrong again, what a surprise, you have real problesm with reading and comprehension!! As for the other post no actually I do not attempt to change numbers or information to suit my purpose. I use what is available and reported in the paper. You still have yet to prove anything in the other thread other than mysterious new information that you pulled from who knows where. I know plenty of racists of your type, they try to pander to anyone so that they can take advantage of them by pretending to be someone they are not. Guess that pretty much hits your nail on the head. It also appears that I am not the olny person on this thread that sees through your attempt to impose your comments on this article. "

joe wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:14 PM:

" I hate it when black people say they want the rights of everybody else, but yet they are the ones that are causing the trouble. "

BigBrother wrote on Mar 20, 2008 12:10 PM:

" The police are letting a lot of people go free that should have been arrested. How many of these people got in their cars and drove after drinking all night? How many of these people threw bottles at police officers doing their duty? How many of these people were underage drinking at this party? Looks to me like there could have been some serious arrests made here. Did the police just overlook these violators? Why? Alligations of illigal drugs and possibly illigal weapons? Who is getting over who in this case? "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:52 AM:

" So why is this fight news and we have NOTHING about the outbreak at the Soulja boys concert last night? I live 2 blocks from the eyesore qwe call a Colesium and there were more cops there than I thought Bloomington had, with at least 3 small (4-5 ppl) fights happening when I drove past. Who needs Television, just watch our streets. "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:50 AM:

" To Gov't oppressed Mule. I fully agree that African-Americans, despite the view of some, have indeed contributed positively to our community. However, when you quantify your non-serial rapists, are you including the child molestors? Considering their victims cannot legally consent, I'd call them rapists, wouldn't you? Please list the "last five" rapist you are referring to, because per my criteria, I'm pretty sure they aren't all African-Americans. Even if they were, couldn't that indicate a higher level of surveillance on the AA community? The white rapists here in BN sure seem to get away with their misdeeds for a while before getting caught. By the way...ARE their any African-Americans on this forum? If so, what's your honest opinion on this? "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:25 AM:

" To Modulation. Very good! The article DID say why the guest of honor was tazed. Mea Culpa on that one. I think this is the first real point you've made for a while in our debates. Too bad you're failing so badly on the other one. I will gladly recant my assertion that the birthday girl was tazed for no reason mentioned in the article. Happy? I bet you are. :) As for those who charge me with racism, I do believe I'm on the side of African-Americans here, so if I'm racist, I'd have to be racist against my own race, right? If you believe that, you don't know me worthy diddly. "

Annie Oakley wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:20 AM:

" wow, did the paper ever say they were black? dang, pulling the race card. is that any of you can ever do? it can't be your actions that cause the cops to be a little rough, it has to be a color thing. "

Annie Oakley wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:18 AM:

" oh waaaah! so you hate the cops. big deal. get over it and stop being a cry baby. when a cop says to stop, then stop. don't run, don't resist. don't be stupid. he used a freakin tazer not a gun. be thankful the tazer didn't have bullets in it. some of you people make me sick. you put yourselves into positions where you can get into trouble and you blame the cops. so typical. grow up and get a life. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:55 AM:

" TO: HERETIC

I personally don't want to get into the race fight you are trying to stir up, but you asked about African american serial rapist and serial killers. While it is true that the majority of serial killers are white, we haven't had any. And as to the rapist? I am only aware of 2 in recent times, one is ALLEGEDLY white the other was the teen recently arrested and if memory serves correct he was African American. Now look at the rape cases other than "serial" rapist. The past 5 in this town have been perpetrated by African Americans (most Chicago implants thanks to Markowitz). If you are trying to strengthen the arguement that African Americans are unjustly picked on, I think you really just hurt your case. This being said the African american community has contributed A LOT to this town and I think we should get off of the race card, as this isn't about white and black but Thugs (regardless of race) and the rest of the citizens. "

Shep wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:40 AM:

" To: Political Heretic:
Not in there best interest to do so? Give me a fricking break. When you comply, white, black, blue, purple, green, whatever color you are, you don't get tased. News flash- police officers wear tasers, to use use them. Anybody, who isn't an idiot, knows that if you don't comply you ARE going to get tased. As I believe the old commercial says, "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." Start using your brain and think coherently before you post. "

lindini wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:37 AM:

" Tazing an innocent man is now ok because a bunch of other fools are causing trouble!? Yeah, thanks BPD. This whole thing stinks of over amped cops starting to see everyone as a potential danger and the situation getting out of control. I'm not saying I don't understand how this happens but it doesn't make it right. Police should be held to a higher standard and should be able to remain calm in a tricky situation. After viewing several instances on my street where the BPD were involved (and I was absolutely not) I can attest that you do not want to get on the wrong side of their egos. It is easy to let our racial biases say oh a bunch of black folks got out of control and the poor police had to do what they had to do but there are laws and procedures and no one should be above the consequences of not following them. "

The other Dave wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:30 AM:

" To Heretic. Maybe you can enlighten us. Tell us that last time that a mob of 300 white people rioted, injured police with bottles and fired guns within the city of Bloomington. Then maybe your comparison would be valid. Otherwise, it is just your racist opinion. "

Modulation wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:22 AM:

" To Heretic: Wow what a short memory: You wrote:

I assert racism because it's quite obvious that the police were not very discerning about who they tazed at this event. They even tazed the person who's birthday was being celebrated! Were they doing something wrong?

Read the article and my post. Yes this person was doing something wrong it was called disobeying a police officer and "wrestling with police officers." If that is not defending someone who faught with the police what is??? Also YOU were the first person to use racism in this post. Sounds like you have an issue that maybe you need to seek professional help. Always the race card use and usually by one side in the issue. "

Modulation wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:12 AM:

" To Heretic: Your post does nothing to address the issue of the host being tased. Again how you pick and choose what to comment on. You make statements that are incorrect and they will be brought out but big surprise time to move on and forget about your foul ups in reading and comprehending the story huh? "

Political Heretic wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:45 AM:

" Wow. My post certainly created a maelstrom, didn't it? Oh well, that's why I'm the Heretic, right? However, I do not remember defending the action of anyone involved in the fight itself. I simply asserted that the local police reacted differently than if it was a white crowd. That's all. Disagree with me if you want, but don't mischaracterized my position. People who fire guns and start fights do need to be dealt with, but I certainly get the impression that some of these people who got tazed weren't those people, no matter what past records they may have. As for the question of why African-Americans don't comply or help the police...maybe past experience has shown them that it isn't in their interest to do so. Face it, black folks ARE held to a more stringent standard in central Illinois than white folks. How many serial rapists or serial killers have we had here who turned out to be black? Nada. Why? Because the police are always breathing down their necks. "

Modulation wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:07 AM:

" To PayDan: Yes that is correct let blame management for the cause and result of this melee. Lets not hold the ADULTS that were in attendance and that are to be responsible for their own actions for causing fights, throwing beer bottles, and shooting a gun. That is right that all belongs on the shoulders of the management. That sounds like typical rehtoric from your type. "

Modulation wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:03 AM:

" To Political Heretic: Howard said she saw at least four people being shocked with Tasers. One of those was the guest of honor for the birthday party, she said.

White previously said the woman refused to stay in a vehicle, insisting police didn’t have a right to detain her and wrestling with officers. The woman, who did not face criminal charges by Wednesday, was in one of two vehicles close to the bullet casings found in the parking lot. Officers detained people in those cars in case one of them fired the shots, he said.

Wow that sure sounds like resisting arrest and disobeying a police officer. Not to mention she was near the shell casings of the gun that was fired. Again you really need to read and slow down because it is obvious that you have a tough time comprehending what is written buddy. Sounds like another thread that you have the same problem.
"

Shadow wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:46 AM:

" Next time dont break it up. Maybe they will all detroy each other. "

Lurg86 wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:37 AM:

" To Political Heretic: Your assertion of the race card is really begining to smell. I call any room full of people who are asked to leave a party and answer by hitting the messanger with a beer bottle a thug. Only thugs react to authority this way and I for one am frankly tired of burned out old liberals trying to play the race card when people behave poorly. Let's look at a few facts. First the party was booked for 75, not several hundred. If I am planning a party I make accomodations for about 10 more people than I invite, not over 200. Fact is heretic some people just do not know how to party, and those people should stay at home. An unruly crowd this size was a threat to the entire town. I don't care what color they were, the people inside the party kicked this whole thing off by assaulting the club manager when told to break the party up.
"

jj01 wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:23 AM:

" The party goers should be very happy that the Bloomington PD carries tasers now. If I were a cop and confronted 300 or so people throwing bottles at my partner, I guarantee that my pistol would be drawn and not the taser. The party was out of control and the police handled the situation in the way they deemed necessary at the time. Now all the he said she said just makes this matter worse. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Mar 20, 2008 7:12 AM:

" To Political Heretic... maybe the police were more lenient with white offenders at the events you referenced because whites tend to co-operate more with the police. When was the last time you heard of the black community (here in B-N or anywhere else) actually helping the police with an investigation? If you are honest you will admit it just doesn't happen very often. "

normalguy wrote on Mar 20, 2008 6:35 AM:

" The cops choose to ignore more minority crimes in this town then they will ever seek to prevent. (see being kicked off orlando street) It was just this particular instance could not be ignored. And even though the paper refused to report it, we all knew and were called racist for being accurate in our assesment of the people at the party. but hey maybe they can all go to church this weekend and repent at the altar of reverend jeremiah wright. "

cats55ire wrote on Mar 20, 2008 4:44 AM:

" Police need to do their job and if people are not going to cooperate, then the police should take action!

People should take responsibility and stop blaming the system or other groups if/when these people act like idiots! "

otis wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:42 PM:

" thanks bpd you do a great job every day but what about the thugs on market st.especially at the corner of lee and market "

happy one wrote on Mar 19, 2008 8:20 PM:

" Why does everything end up being called racial..how do you know if the any of the officers at the scene weren't african-american. The first ones there ran into trouble and had to call all the others in to help, and they were attacked on top of that. Shots were fired- empty shells found. The officers were doing the job they were hired to do. I think the situation was dangerous for all there and they reacted the way they were supposed to. To protect those not involved and defuse something that could have gotten alot worse. "

PayDan wrote on Mar 19, 2008 6:53 PM:

" Michael, why woul