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Three months in, smoke still hasn't cleared on ban
By David Mercer
Associated Press
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CHAMPAIGN -- Almost three months after a new Illinois law made it illegal to light up in public places, the smoke still hasn't cleared.

Bar and restaurant owners say they don't know how far they must go to stop customers from smoking. Police and some local health officials say they're not sure how to enforce the ban.

And prosecutors in some Illinois counties say they won't take up smoking-ban cases until what they call loose ends in the law are tied up.

``Many, many of the state's attorneys I've discussed this with agree that there are significant problems with the language in the statute,'' said St. Clair County State's Attorney Robert Haida, who has told police that he won't prosecute violators until the problems are fixed.

The Smoke-Free Illinois Act outlaws smoking in public places and within 15 feet of their exterior doors and windows. People and establishments that violate the law can be fined up to $250.

But that's as clear as it gets.

Bar and restaurant owners say the law does not spell out how they're supposed to enforce the ban.

``All we can do is say there is no smoking allowed,'' said Mary Woodward, owner of Woody's bar in Joliet, where police cited some smokers earlier this month. ``I guess the people who were here that day chose not to go outside. I didn't see them; what do you do?''

Some bar owners mistakenly thought they also had been cited at the same time, Will County State's Attorney's Office spokesman Charles Pelkie said. Smokers who violate the law are given citations, similar to a traffic ticket, while police are writing up longer reports on businesses and sending them to prosecutors, he said.

``They're still kind of poring over the law here locally, and there seems to be some issues in regards to how the law is written with respect to the bar owners,'' Pelkie said.

Peoria isn't actively enforcing the new law because the city attorney says he has too many unanswered questions about how it works.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that that state has not yet adopted rules detailing how the ban is supposed to work.

The General Assembly's Joint Committee on Administrative Rules has rejected draft rules, saying that they lacked any means for people who've been cited or fined to appeal. The committee could take up the rules again at its next meeting, April 15.

When some of the smokers cited at Woody's and the another Joliet bar, Paulie's Pub, went to court this week — where they protested outside, complaining the law deprives them of the right to smoke — the judge told them to come back next month.

Pelkie said the judge was concerned that the citations were being given case numbers identifying them as misdemeanors, which would have made anyone who pleaded guilty appear to have a criminal record.

Nobody knows how many people or businesses around the state have been cited for violating the law.

The Illinois Department of Health isn't tracking the number of violations, and the law, while giving the agency the responsibility to enforce the ban, doesn't require it track how often it's enforced, department spokeswoman Melaney Arnold said.

The department is only tallying the number of complaints it has received about smoking — more than 2,600 as of Tuesday, Arnold said.

Beyond enforcement issues, though, it's difficult to tell what the economic fallout has been.

Some casinos claim it has taken a significant bite out of their business. Harrah's Metropolis Casino in Metropolis, in far-southern Illinois, reported a 23 percent drop in revenue the first two months of the year, and blamed the smoking ban for 30 layoffs.

But the American Cancer Society, one of the ban's strongest backers, argues that the sluggish economy probably played a role.

``It's a bit silly to assume that a public health law is the driving factor behind a certain sector of the economy doing bad at a rough economic time,'' the Cancer Society's Mike Grady said.

Lawmakers who opposed the ban, particularly those whose districts include casinos, say they'd like to create exemptions for service clubs like the Veterans of Foreign Wars, or perhaps allow businesses that want to allow smoking to pay for permits to do so.

Grady says the American Cancer Society would fight any measure to water down the law, and the handful of attempts made so far have gotten nowhere.

State Sen. Mike Jacobs, one of the ban's most vocal opponents, doubts he or any of his colleagues can win exemptions anytime soon.

``I tend to look at those (proposed changes) as what I call feeding and amusing the voters,'' said the Moline Democrat, whose district includes a riverboat casino. ``You can't pass an exemption bill through the Legislature. There's just not the will to do that right now. Maybe next year.''

Take a look
The Smoke-Free Illinois Act outlaws smoking in public places and within 15 feet of their exterior doors and windows. People and establishments that violate the law can be fined up to $250. But that's as clear as it gets.
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Reader comments on this story - 128 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

IlliniFan wrote on Apr 11, 2008 6:42 PM:

" I'd be checking my meals JWO.....Maybe they haven't called the police on you..YET....But I'd be willing to bet the Chef gets a nasty, nasal dripping, loogie sneezing, cold while cooking your "free dinner"...Bon appetit "

ES wrote on Apr 11, 2008 5:39 PM:

" Mule: So if I follow YOUR logic, if someone does not want to serve another based on his/her race, it is OK, since they own the building? In a public place, you see, you cannot pick and choose what laws do and do not apply. I just want to make sure I understand you r logic properly: you think it is ok to not serve someone based on his or her race if you own the building, right? I await your reply. "

IlliniFan wrote on Apr 11, 2008 5:13 PM:

" Many restaurants will make the waitress pay when a customer walks out without paying. You are indeed a thief... "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 11, 2008 3:48 PM:

" TO: JWO

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as I stated on a previous smoking article, I actually work out nightly (including running 4.5 miles on a treadmill), you know the first thing I do when I'm done? I light up and BOY is it good. In fact several friends have ribbed me, because as I'm working out I'll smoke (done in my own home). So I'll gladly join you on your run, but seeing as you put out the invite for anyone to join you in your walk out escapades and have yet to identify when and where you'll be I can only assume this claim is nothing more than you blowing smoke. But I've told you when and where I'll be, feel free to join us for a couple of drinks and we can have some intelligent conversation (assuming that is you know how to have some.) "

Just Walk Out wrote on Apr 11, 2008 2:36 PM:

" We are not fat. We are both fit and healthy. We are both runners (try doing that smokers). We both get a kick out of the controversy our walking out has stirred up on this post. It doesn’t seem to bother the establishments we walk out of. Only the pea brained posters who can’t accept that it is the law. And yes, we went out for our usual Thursday night dinner, but alas, we had to pay for it. No one lit up (as it should be).

So to all of you who despise us, we say thank you. Bon appetit. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 11, 2008 2:05 PM:

" TO COUNTRY BOY:

Thank you. If JWO was really the "freedom fighter" he/she claimed to be they would advise when and where they are headed. If you'd like to have a beer and smoke, I'll be at the Grand Cafe on Saturday after 6ish, I will gladly sit with you and have a cold one, although I believe we will have to go outside and smoke, because the owner FREELY chose to go non-smoking. Hope you can make it. "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 11, 2008 12:22 PM:

" GOM, you rock! we need to have a beer and a smoke sometime when JWO is feeding his fat face!
"

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 11, 2008 11:44 AM:

" TO: ES

I'm sorry maybe I missed my post, where did I say I was a republican or you a democrat? I actually stated you are clinging to liberal socialist Ideas. I choose to back conservative ideas (you know, the ideas this country was founded on) I am neither democrat nor republican as they are all crooked. I vote my hopes, not my fears. I vote 3rd party. Speaking of parties backing bad guys, what about Blago? Obama? Jones? These, I believe, belong to your party. Remember evertime you point a finger at someone you have three pointed back at you. and I couldn't help but chuckle at your statement "your selfish actions in a PUBLIC PLACE harms others." What about you putting business OWNERS (you know the people who own the building and by your own admission should be allowed to smoke in them) into the poor house, because you want these establishments (that you've never entered) to adhere to some fascist, socialist dogman that you pulled out of thin air, simply to stroke your over inflated ego? Now if that's not the pot calling the kettle black :-) "

The Cats wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:19 AM:

" To Govt depressed mule...is that your real name? If not you are posting under a pseudonym. Your posts are really a source of amusement to me (and others as I read these posts. Is there no limit to your paranoia? If you, even once, had something serious to say you might gain some credibility. I await the day you say something factually impressive or even correct. Until then...thanks for the laughs. "

The Cats wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:16 AM:

" To those crowing about stealing food...you are criminals and lowlifes. Do you suppose you can sway any opinions on here? How foolish. You deserve all the respect a criminal gets. Thanks lowlifes for showing us just how low people will stoop to be stupid. LOL at you. "

whatevercple wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:57 PM:

" Im supposing that all these non smokers bragin about free food for walking out and babbling about how mid as well put your mouth to exshaust pipe as to smoke eat really healthy foods while at these restaurant. I bet half u non smokers digest just as bad into your systems by other means. If u are goin with how smoke harms u so much then maybe we ought to start out lawing many other things also all things that arent healthy for all people instead of picking and choosing. Im not afraid to pay the piper for all ive done to harm my body are you? I shout out loud that i smoke ,,, u continue to whiser not to tell anyone about that big juicy burger u ate,,with that chocolate dessert , "

ES wrote on Apr 10, 2008 10:24 PM:

" Mule: you call me a clinging liberal: so I suppose a paranoid republican is better, Get it through your head, your party backed a bad guy and your selfish actions in a PUBLIC PLACE harms others. Typical self-serving republican. "

Gov't Depressed Mule wrote on Apr 10, 2008 5:25 PM:

" Don't be fooled by anybody.There is a conspiracy going on here. People are posting under psuedonyms and you can't tell the players without a scorecard. Things really are not what they appear to be. The original is not and the extra crispy is. Who cares. I'm going join those folks for a free meal. Where do I sign up? Is it organized? Do we meet somewhere? I'm ready to walk out too. "

good ol boy wrote on Apr 10, 2008 3:36 PM:

" I'm going outside to smoke, and all you anti's better be inside buying a drink to make up for the losses the bars are taking. The weather is breaking and soon we smokers will be outside all the time. You anti's can stay inside in the "clean" air because outside air is full of bad things. ( we don't want you outside anyway because next you'll try to stop us from smoking in the "fresh" air ) If you do come out please keep your mouth shut so you don't get something put in it that you don't want. Oh and by the way, JWO your still a thief!! "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:46 AM:

" TO:JIPSI

Very nice point! But don't be fooled. This "JD" isn't the real JD they are just an unoriginal person who can't debate on their own merit so they take other people's names and attempt to cause confgusion, by seemingly to argue both sides of the coin (Makes you wonder if JD and Gov't depressed Mule are the same unoriginal people.) "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 10, 2008 9:10 AM:

" NINJA'S...there everywhere! "

jipsi wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:57 AM:

" JD, you're WRONG. "Flummoxed" means CONFUSED, and "rubes", in a nutshell, is a word for "idiot".
The only "confused idiots" I see here are the ones believing they're aiding some "cause" by publicly STEALING from a business owner caught between a rock and a hard place.
Next time, ASK those "lighting up" if they would "Please" wait until after you have finished your meal, and see what happens.
Most smokers I've known are not only willing to comply, but often apologetic and pleasant.
But of course, that's not the issue with JWO, is it? It's not so much that he/she is annoyed by cigarette smoke, it's that he/she wants to MILK the situation by exploiting it for what he/she thinks are "free meals" (NOT).
Talk about CLASSLESS...
But others out here (myself included), smokers AND non-smokers, ARE quite DISGUSTED by this course of "action".
Which is as far from "flummoxed" as the word gets.

JD, normally I would agree with you (as in other topics), but this time... not so much.

Add a little "disappointed" to that helping of "disgusted" for me, will you? "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:40 AM:

" Still dont believe JWO and that story in the paper could be any other "thief". So where are you going this evening, I would love to be there to light up after your dessert if its actually in a bar that will let people light up... "

JD wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:26 PM:

" To Just Walk Out: Congratulations, your posts are flummoxing the rubes. I had someone in Heyworth look up your story in the Star newspaper. How come you only got one paragraph. You will have to do better. Keep up the good work. They are totally confused now. I can’t say I support your methods, but I like your results. What was the most expensive dinner you were “comped”? "

illini-dog wrote on Apr 9, 2008 5:10 PM:

" Well tell us where this place is on thursday nite JWO so we can join you. Let me guess , you will be on here friday with another one of your tales after the fact like usual. Maybe you can spice it up for the unknowing homers though with a sword fight over the salad bar or a daring getaway with ninja's after you. I look forward to your tales. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:26 PM:

" HEY JWO:

You stated "Luckily they did not get our license plate." I thought you were willing to wait for the police to further your cause? Sounds to me you just proved yourself (allegedly) to be the theiving liar so many have called you. I'll be waiting for your party in Heyworth, when you're finished with your meal let me know and I'll be glad to light up for you. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:24 PM:

" TO A FRIEND:

You have yet to answer OGS' question. If you are such a brilliant economist what marketing plan can ANY business come up with (other than allowing patrons to violate the law) to make up for a 35% loss in sales?Could you live with only 2/3 of your current paycheck, simply because people who never enter your job, force stupid, idiotic, and illegal laws onto your employer? "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 9, 2008 4:22 PM:

" TO: ES

If YOU enter a smoking establishment than how is that my fault? Why you can't use your education and decide to enter an establishment that prohibits smoking? So I re-state it is YOU who harms yourself by refusing to go where the air is "clean." You asked "Why not stay at home and smoke; you own that property and you may do as you wish." What if I owned a bar/ I would then own that property so why can't I smoke in it? You state you have done nothing to harm the smokers? What about forcing them to go from 80+ degrees to sub zero temps, simply because you are to selfish (or unitelligent) enough to enter a non-smoking establishment? Seems to me you (and your type) are the ignorant, selfish ones. What freedom? We haven't had freedom in this country since FDR was in office and started this socialist movement you liberals cling so tightly to. "

A Friend wrote on Apr 9, 2008 5:29 AM:

" Only businesses that can't adapt are hurt by the smoking ban. Smart business owners will thrive. Similar laws are in effect in over 20 states and thousands of communities in the U. S. It is the law. Business owners who can't hack it are free to choose another line of work. They might be better suited as crash test personell. "

johnd wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:05 PM:

" ES my kids are grown and I pay for my health insurance.I have cancer insurance also.I pay for it out of my pocket.I get no break on my insurance.Like todays Illinois kids can get cheaper state health insurance.Paid for with my tax dollars.While todays parents live it up on the savings.I know several who can afford to pay full price rather then drive a new SUV.I get sick of hearing about protecting todays brats.Keep them quite when in a resturaut there noise harms my ears. "

Just Walk Out wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:31 PM:

" ES: You will have to excuse the pooch. They always try and cloud the issue by bringing up another issue to deflect their failure. Why don't you come join us for a free dinner this Thursday. We found a lovely place that still lets people smoke. We are planning to have a wonderful meal and then at the right moment, when one of the regulars lights up (and they always do). We will walk out in protest. It works everytime. And yes, that was us in the Heyworth Star. Luckily they did not get our license plate. Bon appetit rubes! What's good for desert? "

illini-dog wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:03 PM:

" To es; Everything you said is correct but only replace smoker with vehicle. How does it feel when you polute the enviroment and do more damage than a cig. with your car? When are we going to ban cars? Thats what i thought. "

ES wrote on Apr 8, 2008 8:21 PM:

" SMOKERS: give it a rest. Your selfish and misguided cause has lost. I say we should put you in jail for child endangerment if you smoke around your children. How does it feel to be a contributor of their poor health, anyway? Please tell us. You can no longer feel the free rein of polluting the air, adding to the alergies, or making peole feel sick. And in the midst of all of the complaints: you still complain about YOUR rights and how YOU have to suffer. Listen Up, smokers: you are selfish. ignorant, and most likely set up to be a drain on the health care. How does your freedom look now? "

JD wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Actually, one of Just Walk Out's antics did make the Heyworth Star (the weekly rag) back in February. It was about 2 couples who walked out after complaining about smokers. It happened at a place in Atlanta. I didn't make the connection until much later. "

illini-dog wrote on Apr 8, 2008 5:32 PM:

" To country boy; Believe me JWO is full of it. From many previous post's on this he has never had any proof and most people know this , so just let him or her keep entertaining you with the lies and fantasies. Maybe the next time he will tell us how he beat up 2 bouncers and threw the manager thru the window too. What comedy. "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 8, 2008 3:22 PM:

" I would just call JWO a criminal just like anyone else that walks out without paying a bill. But since most of us just think its all a bunch of BS he can just keep bragging about nothing. Show some proof, name the places you keep walking out on and maybe someone might believe you but I still doubt any of its true.
"

Just Walk Out wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:47 AM:

" It is 69 days after the smoking ban went into effect and you still can't legally smoke inside a bar. So far my friends and I have received free meals (with drinks) 11 times because we walked out of establishments that allowed people to light up. The concept of smokefree establishments is generall accepted and most places comply, but until it is uniformly enforced, my friends and I will continue to enjoy the free meals. We now wait and order desert before we walk out. We are thinking of asking for to go boxes too (we hate to waste food). Even with the smoke, they meals taste better when they're free. Bon appetit rubes. "

foreverillini07 wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:39 AM:

" I work at a very popular restaurant in champaign, and we have had no problems at all enforcing the law. We took out our ashtrays, posted a sign that said no smoking, so everyone just goes outside. I don't know if they are *exactly* 15 feet away from the door, but at least they're leaving. We have had maybe a handfull of people try to light up in the bar, but they are just politely informed that they have to go outside to do that. End of story. Of course people complain about it, but they take it ouside and complain to the other smokers. I don't know why this is such a hard concept to grasp. It is a law, people just need to be reminded that hey, they are not allowed to smoke inside anymore. And if they have problems with that, then they can smoke a pack in the car before the step foot into the restaurant or bar... "

JD wrote on Apr 8, 2008 6:54 AM:

" Why do smokers complain about not being able to smoke in bars or restaurants? Aren’t they smart enough to know it is illegal? Why would they even go into one if they want to smoke? Don’t they know they can smoke outside (15ft away)? Don’t they know they can smoke at home? Why don’t smokers know they are social pariahs who won’t be tolerated anymore? When are they going to accept that while their addiction is still legal, they are not allowed to harm others with it? Nothing indicates the intelligence of a person more than watching them voluntarily putting a known cancer causing substance into their body. They might as well be putting their lips around the exhaust pipe of a running automobile. Their opinions have no credibility. "

OGS wrote on Apr 8, 2008 12:59 AM:

" TO A Friend: I see you are back and I see you have ignored my question. After all of your blabbering about your experience in the restaurant/bar business, your claims of knowing many owners, and your pathetic attempt to blame the owners for not preparing with adequate marketing plans to regain an average 30-35% sales loss,,,you have no answer. You're all talk just as I thought. Thank you for clarifying that for me and the other readers as well. "

ES wrote on Apr 7, 2008 11:08 PM:

" Mule, If I go to a restaurant that serves FOOD; then yes, you are harming me if you smoke there. Why not stay at home and smoke; you own that property and you may do as you wish. You are so selfish and ignorant. If I am a non-smoker, I have done nothing to harm or bother you. If you smoke, it is YOUR actions. Why is this so hard to understand? "

johnd wrote on Apr 7, 2008 8:19 PM:

" To Just Walk Out- They were aware your were a PITA the first time.Thats why you always get the free complimintary secret sauce added just especialy for you.Yum Yum! "

whatevercple wrote on Apr 7, 2008 8:07 PM:

" If i wanna eat steak i go to steak house if i want a burger i go to mcdonalds, if i want gas i got to gas station, if i want grocerys i go to the grocery store. Why is it that non smokers cant go to non smoking establishments and smokers go to smokers???? who is anyone to tell the next guy they cant do anything???? FREE COUNTRY???????? WHEN? WHERE? WHOS??? Im ready to take my american money and move to mexico,,,Maybe i can buy all kinds of hotels there and make half smokers and half non, or bars or res. This is beyond rediculious! Until you simply outlaw tobacco, how can you stop anyone from smoking, and why do non smokers benefit from tobacco buyers taxes?
"

A Friend wrote on Apr 7, 2008 8:00 PM:

" I love the new smoking ban because now I can choose to go into ANY bar I want because they are ALL smokefree. I can choose ANY seat in ANY restaurant because the whole restaurant is one big no smoking section. And the best part is that smokers still have a choice too. They can choose to not come into a place where smoking is not allowed. See, we still all have choices. Ain't life sweet. I get what I want and hundreds, maybe thousands of people have to change their behavior to accomodate me. It makes me smile everytime I pass by the smokers huddled in the cold. I know that they are there because I worked to get the law passed. They can't imagine how good it feels. Thank you. Nothing they can say can take away my victory. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 7, 2008 10:48 AM:

" TO: ES

It's not that simple, if you go 80 and get a ticket (or are ticketed for going 80 and you weren't) you can take it to court and have a judge or jury of peers evalute or "try" your case and may overturn an officers ruling. If I am sitting in a bar/rest. and an officer walks in and hands me a ticket (whether it was me smoking or not-already 2 cases of this) I have to pay the fine. I get no trial by peers or a judge. This is a stripping of our due process rights (5th Amendment).It is therefore uncons***utional. Not so cut and dry. By the way are we smokers hurting you, or are you hurting yourself bu subjecting yourself to my smoke by refusing to go to a non-smoking establishment? "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 7, 2008 8:22 AM:

" JWO, nice job...thief... "

Just Walk Out wrote on Apr 6, 2008 9:10 AM:

" We enjoyed our 11th free dinner last night. Thanks smokers. Can't wait to make it an even dozen. Bon appetit rubes. "

OGS wrote on Apr 5, 2008 4:06 PM:

" TO A Friend: On previous posts, I believe you mentioned that you had experience in the bar/restaurant industry. In your last post you noted that the owners should have prepared themselves with plans to make up for anticipated losses due to a smoking ban. What plans? DO YOU have the answers? Can you provide the right marketing plan for the various establishments to regain their lost sales? On the flip side, many smoking ban proponents said that sales revenues across the country would increase. Looks like they lied, huh? Anyway "A Friend" please expose the secret plan for regaining the average 30-35% loss of sales for these independent owners. Thank you. "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 5, 2008 3:37 PM:

" Hey GOM, if JWO actually commits to somewhere let me know. I really want to be there for that one. Try some west side small towns, cops could care less about people smoking in the bars since in most of those towns its their only source of income. They do care about blatent thieves though and will glad arrest someone who walks out on a bar tab. "

The Cats wrote on Apr 5, 2008 9:11 AM:

" To "A friend"...what board would you be speaking about? What board held hearings? I mentioned no board in my post. As to the rest of your lecture...thanks but I truly do not care what you think of my writing style. As to the business environment in Bloomington/Normal I would suggest you go out and talk to small business owners and look at tax revenues. Leave it to someone like you to call yourself "A Friend" then go out and lobby against consumer choice. "

The Cats wrote on Apr 5, 2008 9:06 AM:

" To Govt oppressed...6 posts to say nothing? You assumptions fit perfectly with your words...they make an ass out of you. 6 posts and not one fact. The SHS dangers are clear and accepted by the vast majority of scientists. As to your other "facts" where is the proof? I am against the smoking ban fool...just accepting that it is here to stay. See I didn't need 6 posts to say that...try short and to the point sometime. "

The Cats wrote on Apr 5, 2008 9:01 AM:

" To "A friend"...obviously you know nothing about running a small business, researching the legal impact of legislation, or crafting a letter. "

ES wrote on Apr 5, 2008 8:51 AM:

" This argument is so insipid. The law is simple, cannot smoke in public places; now enforce it. I cannot drive 80, although I like to) and if I am caught I deserve the ticket. You see, selfish smoker, if I am driving that fast, I am a danger to myself and others. My selfish acts hurts others. Smokers: YOUR SELFISH ACTS HURT OTHERS. Now, you lost your battle and be the good loser; act with grace and smoke at home where you can hurt YOURSELF and damage YOUR CHILDREN. Move on. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 4, 2008 3:50 PM:

" TO:GDM

This is the second time JWO has been caught in his lies (the other the time he stated when and where he would be and never showed.) If you would like some free pie, the offer stands for you also. Let me know when and where and I will gladly join you for a meal (contrary to popular on-line belief I can be quite civil and pleasant to be around) and I will even wait until after your dessert to light up for you. Just tell me when and where and i'll be there. "

Gov't Depressed Mule wrote on Apr 4, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Relax Cuz Gomer. I think JWO is funnin' with ya. Of course, if he really is getting free meals cause of smokers, I have to admire him. No better way to punsih someone than in their pocketbook. I'll have me some pie thank you. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:12 AM:

" TO:JWO

1. I personally think you are full of something, alright. 2. I know people who have been shot having to wait longer than 10 min for the police, so your attempt to wait (if it really happened) was pathetic, at best. 3. I'll gladly take you up on your offer and in fact will wait until after your dessert to light up, just tell me when and where and I'll be there, unless of course you are just blowing smoke (pun intended). "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:08 AM:

" cont'd So No I'm not scared to show my face and am in fact attempting to organize protests and will be willing to be arrested for my beliefs (smoke ins) but where are YOU when people are needed for protests? (see the blame game can go both ways.) "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 4, 2008 10:07 AM:

" TO: THE CATS

First off I've actually posted my name on several anti-ban articles, sorry you weren't there. Now I am having confusion understanding what you were trying to say in your post (200 words is sometimes hard to fully explain with) So I am going to make assumptions (if I'm wrong please tell me) and address what I feel were your "points." First you say don't let facts get in the way of your rant" Whjich facts would these be? The fact that SHS dangers have never been proven? That since the ban was enacted B/N has lost 33% in sales tax from rest. and bars? That w/in 2 years of Irelands ban 1/2 of the pubs had closed and 2,500 healthcare workers were out of work? Which facts seem to be "getting in my way?" Secondly I was truly sorry I missed the council meetings on this HOWEVER I was not a resident of B/N at that time (a surrounding town, but not B/N) "

Just Walk Out wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:19 AM:

" I think next time we'll stay for dessert. Anyone who cares to join in is welcome. The smokers usually wind up getting us a free meal. Yeah, after dessert we will be full of it. "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 4, 2008 7:54 AM:

" JWO, you are very full of it... "

OGS wrote on Apr 4, 2008 4:28 AM:

" To A Friend: Although you have never accepted this, it is a fact that the national average of sales loss due to enacted smoking ban ordinances for independently owned bars is 30-35%. Businesses are hurt because they do not have a plan to regain 30-35% of their business. These bans cause a disproportionate revenue loss to the independents compared to the national chains. Not even the marketing departments of the chains have a plan to replace a 30-35% loss. So please quit blaming independents for not having a plan or not being prepared. "

Just Walk Out wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:05 PM:

" Aaahhh. Thursday night. Our traditional go out and find a bar/restaurant that doesn't enforce the smoking ban and help ourselves to a free meal night. And we were not disappointed. Thank you smokers and to the bartender who said he was going to call the sheriff. We waited in the parking lot for 10 minutes and no one came. I guess we called your bluff. Bon appetit.

"

A Friend wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:11 PM:

" I also spoke before the board several times too. I spoke in favor of the ban. Obviously some people can't speak or run a business. I don't think any business has been hurt by the ban. Businesses are hurt because they cannot come up with ways to work with the ban. They lament their fate; but why are some businesses thriving? Because they are smart. And chastising someone for not using their real name when you don't use your own is hypocritical. Take responsibility for your own mistakes. "

The Cats wrote on Apr 3, 2008 3:48 PM:

" To Govt oppressed mule (you are stubborn that is a fact)....so many words yet saying so little. Don't let facts get in the way of your rants. Do you honestly think anyone would regard your "source" as unbiased? You know more than scientists about the effect of second hand smoke? How foolish of you to waste others time and energy with your silly comments. BTW I spoke before the council and to individual members 17 times in opposition to the ban (it bankrupted my business). That said...where were you...afraid to have to use your real name and actually debate the issue? It is comments like your that hurt the "no ban" cause because they are so factually lacking. "

Bluegrass American wrote on Apr 3, 2008 10:22 AM:

" Pretty simple.......tell your customers they can't smoke "right there" outside the building, and they............ DON"T COME BACK! Pretty simple. "

IlliniFan wrote on Apr 2, 2008 2:11 PM:

" you have to wonder how many people that whine about smoking, think nothing about "lighting up a bowl." "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 2, 2008 12:34 PM:

" TO ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH:
Just came across an update from our european friends on their ban and it's progress.

The last few months have been pretty intense and the smoker ban has caused a great deal of damage to our hospitality industry, its customers, and our communities. Recently we have learnt some interesting things: pubs are closing at a rate of four per day, the government’s top advisors have admitted on Radio Five Live that the argument for second hand smoke is ‘not strong’, patients have yet again been refused treatment because they smoke, French anti-smokers rushed a study out to a gullible press claiming that their ban had reduced heart attacks by 15% (the ‘study’ was subsequently trashed by well respected doctors and epidemiologists), and our good friend Tony Blows was fined a total of £12,000 for allowing smoking in his pub. This fine came subsequent to a £2,000 fine for a driver who knocked down and killed a 12-year-old girl. We think that tells you all you need to know about our judicial system.



Thank you for your continued support. Stay well,

Colin Grainger
Chairman, Freedom2Choose (UK)
"

IlliniFan wrote on Apr 2, 2008 11:24 AM:

" I'm more worried about the people that spend countless hours in the bars drinking, then getting in their vehicles "thinking" they are perfectly fine to drive.

You want the bars open 'till 4:00 AM? If you're spending that much time hanging out in the local watering holes, then you have more to worry about than an occational smoker....... "

Neves wrote on Apr 2, 2008 11:23 AM:

" If they want people to quit,why still allow selling it?
Fast food isn't healthy.MacD's isnt on ban agenda.
Porn breeds sex-offenders,ruins relationships.B-N has two shops with Main Street marquees,alingerie shop with display near a stoplight.(to enjoy the insinuating mannequins.)
NASCARpromotes driving at dangerous speeds.The track is still open.
Car exhaust is lethal cancerous toxin causing global warming.
Injuries due to sports?In the"public's best interest of health and safety",ban it.
Only action banned is YOUR freedom of choice.
I dont go to theaters,its dark,I might trip and injure myself.I choose not to risk my health as such,although I accept I may have to walk through rooms which dont have my lighting standards.They can close the theater,it doesnt affect me,I am not propent to cinema.
No planes=no terrorists.Makes sense to me.Everyone should share my POV.
The newspaper has badnews sometimes,though.I am forced to see this sitting close to anyone reading one.It makes me depressed.
However,I will defend my right to dress as a clown and honk-your-nose.
You can ban anything I dont do,just not anything I might want someday.
Its ok.Im still able to choose what kinds of food I consume.(For now.)
See how this becomes redundant and ludicrous?satireintended "

NeroW wrote on Apr 2, 2008 11:13 AM:

" To GDM - I really doubt your story about walking out on a tab "out in the sticks". Try that in several places I know of and you and your crew of dogooders would have been bounced big time. If it is true, I curse my bad luck for never happening to be around when true pieces of work like yourself actually lower yourself to making a personal apperance among the common folk. "

PoorJimmy wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:46 PM:

" Still a fair amount of bars allow smoking even in B/N. Anyone taken a trip outside of Bloomington lately? Ban is a joke. The law will eventually either carve out exceptions for bars or will end up being enforced like the 55 m.p.h speed limit was. "

ldylck7 wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:08 PM:

" All of you people make the same arguments over and over again on these posts, do you really think it will change anything! Everyone has an opinion and that fine and dandy but your opinions are not going to change anything. The Government has the last say so whether you like it or not. Feel free to continue complaining! "

Young & Open Minded wrote on Apr 1, 2008 1:33 PM:

" Alright...so I'm not going to argue one way or another as to the dangers of smoking (1st or 2nd hand) seeing as how I don't fully know, nor do I care. I don't enjoy smoke at all, I also don't enjoy having freedoms taken away though.

I personally don't view this as much different than drinking alcohol. It is illegal to sell (or drink) alcohol in an establishment that doesn't have the proper licensing. I would propose that smoking should be the same way. There are already smoke shops where you can go and smoke, 1 in downtown Bloomington and another in downtown Normal that I know of. If you want to drink and smoke, then perhaps it should be regulated as to how many of the liquor licenses can also carry a smoking license, so that not every bar is full of smoke and you're not alienating an entire population of people either.

I do enjoy going out MUCH, MUCH more now that I don't have to be around smoke all the time and have my eyes burn though. Next up...Let's extend the hours of liquor licenses until 4 am! "

Geez! wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:22 PM:

" While I am all for any smoking ban, I think we can all agree that when you write a bill to be put into law, you MUST have a fair and reasonable way of enforcing that law. What happened in this case is unreal. How can law enforcement NOT know how to enforce a particular law? If the law is unenforceable, then it needs to be re-written so it can be. I'm sure the Three Stooges would have felt at home in the meeting where they discussed this bill and it's lack of enforcement ability. "Let's make a new law!" "Ok - how do we enforce it?" "Who cares? Just make it!" "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 31, 2008 4:56 PM:

" To: GDM

Thanks for helping prove my point of unoriginal people with no actual ideas having nothing better to do than attempt to cause confusion so people won't realize they have no idea of that which they speak. "

Gov't Depressed Mule wrote on Mar 31, 2008 4:14 PM:

" You tell him Gomer. We have to make sure everyone knows that second hand smoke is harmless. It is a consipacy. We know more than those phoney scientists. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:58 PM:

" TO:JD

What's wrong? Not able to form a valid arguement so the best your clean air laden mind can come up with is attempting to confuse people by posing as someone with valid arguements? NICE job supporting your stance and being original. "

JD wrote on Mar 31, 2008 11:57 AM:

" Disregard any posts, but mine. The law is fair and just. It is a shame it had to be enacted, because people should have known on their own that it is harmful to breathe second handsmoke. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 31, 2008 11:56 AM:

" TO: REDBIRD QUEEN

Again another example of everyone wanting something without giving something. You don't want to walk around because you don't want to be put out? Well I'm pretty sure the smoker didn't want to be "put out" by being forced to go outside and smoke. But they do, why? Because you cried to "big daddy gov't" to save you from the HORRIBLE SMELL(!) so now they are forced to go outside and now that you've gotten your way, you now don't want to be inconvenienced by walking around the designated smoking area? Thanks for proving the point that this ban is nothing more than a want (on your part) to fufill a child like impulse equivalent to throwing a tantrum and screaming "I WANT, I WANT, I WANT!" "

middle of the road wrote on Mar 31, 2008 11:37 AM:

" to: libertarian viewpoint

BUT..BUT.. thats not a libertarian view, its a conservative view LOL "

redbirdsqueen69 wrote on Mar 29, 2008 10:19 PM:

" How bout you go check out Heartland's smoking area? I have to walk through that smoke to get to my classes. Yes I could walk around but if it's raining, should I be the one put out? NO. I walk through that little smoking area and after just 5-10 seconds in that section I smell like smoke and it hurts to breath. You smokers smell horrible. "

PupsKitten wrote on Mar 29, 2008 7:15 PM:

" I moved to Illinois from California, which we all know was one of the first states to enforce this law. I am a smoker myself and I can tell you that even I find it much more pleasant to be able to go into a restraunt without having to worry about cigarette smoke. That being said, I have been in many establishments where they have simply made a way to abide by these rules and still appease the non-smokers. Places such as casinos and bingo halls have made separate closed rooms where they can allow smoking for those who feel they cannot be somewhere that they cannot smoke. This way the smokers as well as the non-smokers are happy. Everyone gets to enjoy their day/evening out if they smoke or even if they don't. Why can't they have similar establishments here? Since the places most impacted by this ban, financially, are the bars & casinos, why can't they make a separate area where smokers can go without "messing up the clean air" as some would say? "

jipsi wrote on Mar 29, 2008 1:41 PM:

" to The Original JD: I'm a little puzzled... you DO know my previous posts here (re: "X Marks the Spot", etc.) were deliberately facetious, don't you?
I'm a non-smoker, not an "anti-smoker". I'm not "anti" anything.
WAIT, I AM "anti-BAN"...

My series of comments, prior, were to illustrate a point. I had hoped the "BAN-happies" would have been better at understanding "story-problems"; sadly, NOT.
Your statement, however ("It was about forcing their choices on others through the government. "), tells me we're both in agreement here. :-)
"

jphibbes wrote on Mar 29, 2008 12:08 PM:

" If you walk out of an establishment without paying after eating or drinking, then you are a thief and should be prosecuted as such. Your the worst kind of criminal because you don't care about anyone but your own selfish pathetic needs. As for you who support this fascism in your country, Hitler would be proud of you. Hitler believed just like you in that smoking lead to desintion, so he offered anyone a gold watch who could quit smoking. In Hitlers eutopia everyone who believed and lived like he did had the right to live, Everyone else was an enemy and was treated as such. It wasn't just the jewish people in those camps, but also people of diffent political perceptions. So pat yourself on your back you Nazi's, your hero's ideas are becomeing our laws. "

The Original JD wrote on Mar 29, 2008 11:53 AM:

" To: jipsi - This ban was never about health for the vocal minority. It was about forcing their choices on others through the government. Even now, proponents do not want to do their part, such as reporting smoking in establishments. Instead, they either slink into the shadows and whine, or at GDM state they have done, look for a way to exploit the situation for their advantage.

These people do not care about anyone other than themselves, and will only raise the battle cry about 'protecting society' when it coincides with what they want. Sad thing is, the majority of Americans fall for this type of stuff all the time. "

Jud wrote on Mar 29, 2008 11:23 AM:

" To JWO: Remember the last round of blogs about a month ago? You and your side kicks were going to LeRoy because you heard there was smoking at a certain establishment there. Where were you? Little kitty wasn't there. How come? We all were just waiting for you to walk in, but nope, your were'nt there. Scared? Or is it just what we expected, you are a phony and a liar. "

valentine62 wrote on Mar 29, 2008 10:59 AM:

" By the way Waynesville does not have a bar, they have an American Legion Hall. In my view it is a shame that our Veterans who fought for our freedom can not have a smoke while having a drink!! The same people are at that bar everyday, how often does an outsider travel to a town of 500 people for a night out at the American Legion??? Why don't you people get a life!!! "

The Cats wrote on Mar 29, 2008 10:17 AM:

" To "Libertarian...what a senseless post. Are you saying there should be no health department codes for food handling along with the 1000's of other things the government regulates everyday in private business? Of course the government's job is to regulate private business. Your comment about fascism simply shows your lack of historical knowledge. If you are an example of the Libertarian point of view no wonder they are a small, fringe group. BTW I am a non-smoker who could care less about the smoking laws one way of the other. My opinion was competition was taking care of the issue just fine before the law was imposed on all. "

Advocate wrote on Mar 29, 2008 9:35 AM:

" It's Time for Smokers to Protest!

Prohibition didn't work. Neither will the smoking ban. I think we need to plan a state-wide SMOKE-IN to finish off this law. Perhaps, with the backing of political pro-smoking groups, it could become a national protest. Throughout the history of our country men and women have made great sacrifices to stand up for what they believe. The fine is relatively small and it looks like the changes of having to actually pay it are slim right now. SMOKERS UNITE! "

llc wrote on Mar 29, 2008 9:04 AM:

" I really think that everyone should have choices....but that includes me, i am the one risking my welfare for a business. I should have a choice to how I run my business. Just like you should have a choice whether you work there or come in there. You do not need to go to a bar to survive, but I do need my customers (the same people who have been there day in and day out for years) to pay my bills. So If I can go and buy a bar why can't you non-smokers go and buy your own. Then you can make whatever rules you want. That way my smokers will be happy in my bar and your non-smokers can be happy in yours. Then everyone's happy! "

llc wrote on Mar 29, 2008 9:04 AM:

" Also, They say that this law is for the workers as well, well....most of my workers smoke. Thats why they are bartenders part-time. So they can smoke and hang out with people and have fun, while they make a little extra money. And what am I supposed to do when they want to take a break to smoke....they have to go 15 feet outside as well. so who's watching my bar and customers while the worker is out on their break which has to be 15 feet from the door now? I can't afford to have 2 bartenders working and I can't be there 20 hours a day? "

llc wrote on Mar 29, 2008 9:03 AM:

" I would just like to say a few things....I own a bar, in the middle of no where - which is most of Illinois. Majority of my customers smoke, the ones that don't usually don't care, but the few(and there are very few here) really make it difficult. Since the ban I have had new non-smoking customers but the amount of money they spend in my bar on a weekly basis doesn't even come close to the amount I'm losing on my regular customers staying at home where they can smoke and drink at the same time. "

Crybaby wrote on Mar 29, 2008 7:57 AM:

" The American Cancer Society ( which knows a thing or two about ‘gambling’) says that economic conditions account for much of Casinos’ losses. Maybe. Possibly. Depending, of course, on which 'study' is doing the accounting. But one thing's for sure: States have become addicted to the more than 20 billion dollars that gambling generates yearly. ( Not to mention, to the disillusionment of the more ‘precious’ among us, the addiction to the tax dollars of the smokers.) Twenty five years ago, gambling was legal in only three states. Now, every state except Hawaii and Utah rely on these 'sin' taxes. Which help to keep other taxes down for the rest of us. Including the Health Hysterics who, incidentally, help to make up more of the 71% of Americans who support legalized gambling. In any event, 'sinners' is a category of Americans which should be encouraged. The returns are too large to dismiss. At least compared to any returns from an investment in the ACI. Meantime, it appears, we’re stuck with the thoughtful advice of the government oppressed muleheads. Who can always be relied upon to show us the way. They, after all, seem to be in charge. "

Annienap wrote on Mar 29, 2008 3:24 AM:

" To Just Walk Out - you are a THIEF! And, it also sounds like you are developing a habit of being a thief since you state: "We've done it several times....". Maybe you've always been a thief, though, and are now just using this as an excuse. The worst kind of person to be is a liar, a cheat and/or a thief so everyone now knows what kind of a person you are. I would have you arrested for stealing and be glad to pay my fine if I was a barkeeper or a restaurant owner. You are scamming people!! "

Annienap wrote on Mar 29, 2008 3:16 AM:

" To JD - if you don't want to be around smoke, YOU can go outside or stay home, too. What makes you so unique and special? That's all I have to say to YOU. Obviously, business owners can't arrest people for smoking, so if the state wants no smoking in all of these places, they should provide law enforcement at all of these places. See how the non-smokers like that when they have to pay them! The state bans smoking, so I suggest it ban alcohol, golf, fishing, hunting, casinos, strip joints and everything else that interferes with someone else. "

The Original JD wrote on Mar 29, 2008 1:18 AM:

" You want to know why it will be struck down? Because it fails the legal test. It is incomplete, without options or recourse to dispute. It gives to much power to the prosecuting side because without a way to dispute, one is immediately guilty upon being cited, thus will fail Constitutional tests. Basically, the law is too gray, without clear cut punishments, recourse, and definition.

Lower courts are already have no desire to get involved with these citation because of the incompleteness of the law. An appeals court will just throw the law out. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 29, 2008 12:13 AM:

" To Gov't Depressed Mule: And you call yourself one of the "good guys"??
What you did was nothing short of PIRACY... a small town tavern, frequented by regulars who all agree (even the non-smoking) that it's okay for the others to smoke (damn the ban) and then some city slicker health-type strangers show up, eat and enjoy the food, THEN slink out the door without paying, wielding fancy schmancy camera phones and threats like shotguns...

I'm a non-smoker, and SO ASHAMED to even admit that after reading what YOU did, in the name of "healthful living'.
It's wonderful to be health-focused, but you BLEW the honor with this black hearted dirty deed.
The restaurant/tavern is already suffering from loss of revenue (yes, they are) and you blow in and STEAL from them on top of things.
It's one thing if you complain to the manager and he then GIVES you a free meal credit or discount; it's THIEVERY when you just TAKE IT without having asked him first to address your complaints.
I'm sure you enjoyed that fine meal. And grinned at each other like banditos as your group, as one, rose and aimed your camera-phones...
Just SICK. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 28, 2008 11:35 PM:

" (continued)
See, I don't go out to drink but on a rare occasion. When I do, I am disgusted by the loud, smelly drunks there, but, worse, concerned about the amount of them driving a car and possibly killing someone, if not themselves, in their state. We need to save lives, for their own good and ours, too. Let's get them off the road and into cabs.
Just say "X Marks The Spot!" and let's get it into legislation!

(most who know me will know I'm the LAST PERSON to suggest such a law, no matter how "good" it really is for all involved. Because people need to retain their "freedom to choose", even if it is a bad choice they make. But since drunken driving is an issue that DOES affect not just the imbiber but those around them, as well, see, I was trying to make a point.
And that is... The "Smoke Free Ban" is hypocrisy.
But then again, the above scenario just *might* be around the corner now.
The government certainly has precedents (regulating and outlawing personal choices) to work with now... "

jipsi wrote on Mar 28, 2008 11:28 PM:

" (continued)
They will always be allowed to have another drink, but only if they give their car keys over OR to another SOBER (no "x's") driver, who then becomes the responsible party in the event the drinker DOES somehow get those keys back and drive.

This is a win-win idea!
Because when the cop pulls you over, he won't have to ask "how many" you've had, to your reply of "only one, ociffer": it will be there, on your person, that you've had AT LEAST 3. The sobriety test, and breathalizer, would then follow, as now.
If you're legally drunk, having went over the 3 drinks and gotten your keys back via the "sober driver" (who signed his name to a ledger at the bar in exchange for your keys), then you've just nailed your pal, because he/she will then be arrested for complicity in your DUI.
(continued) "

jipsi wrote on Mar 28, 2008 11:26 PM:

" Here's an idea for a LAW that's been needed for decades.
Drunk drivers kill, on average, more people than second-hand cigarette smoke, so this will be a hit with our new health-conscious government!

Any business that serves alcohol will be required to first check the customer's hands and wrists for previous signs, then to "stamp" their hand or wrist with an "x" (using that fabulous ink that won't scrub off for a day or two), before serving them a first alcoholic drink. Second drink, another "x". THIRD drink, which is about the maximum for an average person before their blood alcohol level starts to register in the legal "intoxicated" area, the customer will be given a choice: "Third drink, you're done." OR "Leave your keys here until tomorrow and we'll call you a cab if you want to drink more."
If they say "no way", they won't get served again. BECAUSE any other place they go to will see they've already maxed their "limit" (even if it is a bit smudged. Nice try.).
(continued) "

libertarian viewpoint wrote on Mar 28, 2008 11:15 PM:

" I am a non smoker and I am against the smoking ban simply because it is not the governments responsibility to decide how a private business owner should run his or her business. Government was not put in place to do that. This is fascism with a smile because it makes people feel better and no one seems to realize that. "

libertarian viewpoint wrote on Mar 28, 2008 10:29 PM:

" I am a non-smoker and I am against the smoking ban simply because it is not the governments job to dictate how a private owner of a business runs his or her business. Government was not put in place to do that. This is fascism with a smile because it makes people feel better but no one really seems to realize that. "

Hary wrote on Mar 28, 2008 9:58 PM:

" Outlaw Smoking! Than only the outlaw will smoke.
This is just like the gun laws. Outlaw guns, so only the outlaws have guns.
Let’s make it Illegal so everyone will stop! Except the outlaws.
Black market profits are up this month. And Tax incomes are down. You do
realize the last man smoking in Illinois will pay somewhere in the neighborhood
of 4.8 million dollars in taxes for his one pack of cigs.
"

Country Boy wrote on Mar 28, 2008 9:48 PM:

" and dont forget your little video camera phone... "

Country Boy wrote on Mar 28, 2008 8:51 PM:

" come on out to a little town that rhymes with handford there GDM, I will personally make sure you pay the tab. "

mickeybaby wrote on Mar 28, 2008 8:47 PM:

" I only smoke when I drink. The same is true of many of my friends. We can't smoke at the bar, but we can on my patio or in my garage. Hence...we no longer frequent bars. I feel badly for the bar owners...many of which I know as friends...but these things go hand in hand for me. I'd like to have a smoke WITH my beer, thank you very much. I'll stay home if it means I can do that. I just feel sorry for my local tavern owner...often hardworking honest business people. "

IlliniFan wrote on Mar 28, 2008 8:16 PM:

" What a bunch of tavern dwelling, cell phone picture taking, meal thieving, nuts!!!! LOL I don't even smoke and think you're certifiably crazy...

and Reece has it ever occured to you that Law Enforcement just might have better things to do, than to hand out smoking tickets????? drunk drivers, drug dealers, etc...... "

Not ForNothing wrote on Mar 28, 2008 7:50 PM:

" OK Reece, you need to get back in your bubble now. "

The Extra Crispy JD wrote on Mar 28, 2008 7:09 PM:

" How come some posters (one in particular) think this law will be struck down? It is modeled after the laws that over 20 other states have and their laws haven't been struck down. BTW; more people like extra crispy better than the original. "

Reece wrote on Mar 28, 2008 6:51 PM:

" Has anyone else seen smoking in Heyworth, Atlanta or Waynesville? What gives them the right to continue because noone says anything? I say things, I even turn them in and yet nothing. Seriously no-smokers what are we going to do? sit by and allow it and be forced to say home? "

ldylck7 wrote on Mar 28, 2008 6:44 PM:

" "Loose ends???" Are you kidding me? What do people not understand about you can't smoke in any public places? It's not that difficult to figure out people. And for those of you that think non-smokers are doing you an injustice think again. Actually think about someone else other than yourself for once. "

JD wrote on Mar 28, 2008 6:14 PM:

" I fully support the smoking ban. It is a logical solution to the problem of Second Hand Smoke harming the public and the people who work in bars.

If you want to smoke, you can exercise your choice to go outside of stay home.

You don't like the choices, too bad. "

Gov't Depressed Mule wrote on Mar 28, 2008 6:06 PM:

" Au contraire CB, We have personally walked out of a place in the sticks that allowed patrons to smoke. We stuck them for a $46 food and bar bill (there were 4 of us). They attempted to intimidate us, but we used our cell phones to take video of the smokers and the nasty locals who threatened us. They backed off when WE threatened to call the sheriff. Just to rub in it, we went back the next week. They didn’t say a word and NO ONE smoked while we were there. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 28, 2008 5:42 PM:

" TO: JD

I agree. That's the reason I'm trying to get a ticket. I plan on taking it to the Illinois supremem court if neccesary as there is no appeal process in this law (i.e. or 5TH AMENDMENT). In fact I have yet to hear about a single ticket being issued. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 28, 2008 5:40 PM:

" TO ILLINI FAN

Actually no one forced her to get into her car and drive. She could have called a cab, a friend, or walked. SHE CHOSE TO DRIVE DRUNK. Just like she CHOSE to enter smoking establishments. Unless you are trying to prove why we have to hold these smoke nazi's hands (because they are not intelligent enough to make their own choices) your whole post is bogus. No judge will throw her case out.

TO: COMMON SENSE (or lack there of)
If a bar owner asks a patron not to smoke and they refuse and continue smoking, then what? They physically remove them and get charged with assault and sue the owner. GREAT THINKING!

TO:JOHND
LMAO!!! Great thinking. "

Milk was a bad choice wrote on Mar 28, 2008 5:18 PM:

" To johnd: you are a liar....I don't believe your story one bit. And to lockeness....why does it have to be a 325 pound BLACK man and not just a 325 pound man? Are you more scared off black people or something? "

Reece wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:59 PM:

" There are places around here that still smoke and noone does a thing about it. The cops even laugh. Go to towns like Atlanta, Heyworth and Waynesville. I have heard the cops 1st hand say they have better things to do. I have even tried to turn them in myself and nothing gets done. This law is just crap if the LAW WONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Small town cops could care less. "

The Original JD wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:47 PM:

" The reason this is not being enforced is that it is a sham of a law. One good appeal, and the law will be stuck down so fast, the proponents will be stunned. The politicians have already cashed their checks from the special interest groups, and taken a good amount of heat doing it. They will not reinstitute the ban for fear of losing their seats.

Face it, proponent won the battle, but they are going to lose the war. The sketchy 'facts' they used is being seen for what it is, and in the end money will win out...and smoking is big money. "

Woodford Pundit wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:40 PM:

" I'd say we're now ready for the fireplace and BBQ grill banning. "

Woodford Pundit wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:34 PM:

" Sounds like a pretty well thought out, successful bill. Guess the ALA and it's pols had this thing all soundly ready to go. "

The Real Illini Fan wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:27 PM:

" To "johnd" The best part is that if she had hit someone before your "friend" the cop showed? Sure is funny huh? You really need to get a life. You probably ruined her life just so you can get a little revenge?? That is sad.... so sad. I really feel sorry for you. Also by just writing this down on this blog.. you probably gave her lawyer enough ammo to have her conviction thrown out of court. The judge will deem this as harassment and throw the case out. Then the lady will probably sue the cop and the city and now you too. And now that the Pantagraph has everyones name and all on file.. they will find you and give the info to her lawyer.....priceless!! But this is just my opinion. "

Country Boy wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:22 PM:

" Hey common sense, there are alot of things against the law, drinking and driving, smoking marijuana, snorting cocaine, speeding, producing crystal meth, abusing your wife or children, stealing and the list goes on and on. Now you see some people get arrested for these offenses but a large amount of them do not and they just keep breaking these laws...
welcome to our not so perfect society. "

lockeness wrote on Mar 28, 2008 4:01 PM:

" Common Sense? wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:12 PM: Now...for how do the owners enforce it...Try not serving them... Asking them to leave... or better yet tell them they can't smoke

Hmmm. Have you ever tried telling a 325 pound black man that looks like a mac truck to stop smoking his cigarette? As the manager of a business I do have to try to enforce the smoking ban. But if it means that I have to take a beating I think I am just going to let him keep puffing away. Maybe where you live there are open meadows with bunnies hopping and sun shining and rainbows causing the smoke free world to smile. But when you live in areas where people have just as little concern for you as they do for themselves it is not worth it. The hardest part of enforcing this is that corporal punishment is still outlawed. If someone breaks the rules I didn't get to hit them. Or exercise any force whatsoever. And if I try it is either broken bones or law suits. Allow a business owner the right to "Enforce" the law and it will be done. "

johnd wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:51 PM:

" I got even with one of the ''To good for the smoke'' last Saturday night.She was bragging about how she loved not having to smell smoke anymore.So a group of smokers kept buying her around.She had a little to much to drink.So we called a cop friend who thinks she is a pain in the Neck also.He waited for her to drive off and stoped her for a burnt out license plate bulb we all knew she had LOL.She ended up with a DUI revenge is Sweet!Here in this little town. "

thisbudz4me wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:50 PM:

" Common Sense?,

I will type this very slowly for you. The..... law..... is....... not....... enforceable..... because........ the...... state.......... lawmakers............. passed........ an......... incomplete......... law. Until....... it's........ fixed...... nobody......... will.... obey....... it. And yes, people will continue to smoke, because there will continue to be no consequences. Complain to the lawmakers, not the smokers. "

IlliniFan wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:26 PM:

" We eat out in the restaurants all the time. I have not once seen someone light up and smoke, since the smoking ban went into effect.

I can't speak to the bars, because we don't go to them.

I'm not about to make a citizens arrest, take pictures, ask for witnesses, walk out without paying my bill, ect.. if someone were to light up. LOL "

Country Boy wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:17 PM:

" Head out to some of the small town bars, all the original patrons smoked before the ban and they still do now, so no one is complaining when someone lights up, its great! If you tried walking out of one of these places without paying your bill the money you saved by not paying your tab will be a great down payment for your medical bills. These guys do not mess around with "non-paying" customers, no matter what the circumstances. "

Common Sense? wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:12 PM:

" Ok...This time for those who need it spelled out. I will type very slowly so those of you who don't understand can catch it...Ready...here we go... You cannot...your not allowed...it is against the law...its not your right...(am i going to fast)...for anyone...to smoke in public places...that bars...taverns...restraunts...do you need it a little clearer...those places where smokers and non smokers go to eat or just hang out...YOU CANNOT SMOKE... Now...for how do the owners enforce it...Try not serving them... Asking them to leave... or better yet tell them they can't smoke...Not that hard to understand... Grow Up...Know right and wrong!!! "

N595 wrote on Mar 28, 2008 3:04 PM:

" This article is missing one major point. The general assembly has not addressed the 18% drop in casino revenue during the first two months of the years. How is that going to be made up in the budget. Maybe the American Cancer Society can pony up that money. Too many people here in the Chicagoland area are going to Milwaukee or Indiana to gamble now because A. They can smoke. B. The winnings are more because the casinos are taxed as bad! "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Mar 28, 2008 2:45 PM:

" Still trying to get a ticket for violating this "law." I was outside of a bar that rhymes with spat hacks on Wednesday when an officer actually walked up to me (I was about 5 foot from the door-any further and I would have been in front of the next bar's door) Instead of issuing me a ticket he stopped and chatted with me (while I was puffing). I don't know how else I could get a ticket to take this to court. "

94mustang5 wrote on Mar 28, 2008 2:20 PM:

" Nothing stopping a non smoker from making a citizens arrest of the smoker and the bar manager/owner. Take pictures, get recordings and witnesses. Look it up. You may even get some damages awarded in small claims court. Supplement your income. "

Just Walk Out wrote on Mar 28, 2008 2:18 PM:

" We don't need the police or prosecutors. When we are in a bar or restaurant and someone lights up; we just walk out. We've done it several times without any major incident. Once ,we were challenged by a bar employee, but the owner told him to leave us alone. If owners wants to recoup their losses from our meals and drinks, they can go after the smokers. Bon appetit rubes. "

cats55ire wrote on Mar 28, 2008 1:37 PM:

" Smoking kills . . . "
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