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NewsSaturday, March 29, 2008 8:33 PM CDT
'Hybrid gangs' a growing concern for Twin Cities
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BLOOMINGTON -- They have their own colors, symbols, nicknames and graffiti. They have no affiliation with gangs in Chicago or St. Louis. | Agency's attempt to address gangs shorted by funding

They are responsible for an uptick in random attacks and intimidation in the Twin Cities during the past year, everything from pellet gun assaults to shaking down other children for money.

Police are calling the 100 or so youths in Bloomington-Normal “hybrid gangs.”

While they lack the formal leadership, codes of ethics or drug sales typical among established adult gangs, a hybrid gang still “looks and smells like a street gang to citizens,” Bloomington Police Crime Analyst Jack McQueen said.

And a rivalry between the two largest groups could make for “a heated summer,” youth counselor Greg Patton warned.

“Two new gangs have crept into this community, and they’re young and they’re heavily recruiting,” said Patton, youth program director for Bloomington’s Western Avenue Community Center. “With the new organizations poppin’, there could be some serious problems.”

Began last year

Officers started seeing problems with the homegrown gangs in March 2007, McQueen said. A hybrid gang typically starts with a charismatic leader and a group of friends, he said. Other groups form, and fights erupt when a member has a conflict with someone else.

People started spotting these youths, typically from 12 to 17 years old, sporting the same color clothing, standing in the way of traffic on side streets, stealing bicycles and iPods from other youths and shaking down kids for money, McQueen said.

Some members of adult gangs also met with groups of the youths, gave them same-color shirts and mentored them on how to interact with the public, McQueen said. Four such men recently went to prison on unrelated charges, he said.

Department officials met with leaders of social service agencies and residents in neighborhoods where the groups loitered. They heard similar stories. People knew the homegrown gangs’ names, and said their own children had been robbed or they personally had been blocked into their driveways by gang members who refused to let them out.

And the violence worsened in the summer, McQueen said.

“We had a fairly sustained string of street beatings, strong-armed robberies and assaults in various areas of Bloomington,” McQueen said. The attackers yelled out their group names during some attacks, he said.

Juvenile calls up

Normal Police Officer Brian Williams said at least two of the hybrid gangs have established themselves in northwest Normal, particularly the 700 block of Orlando Avenue. Youths from Bloomington and Normal take buses to that area, where some members live, he said.

“What we’re seeing is an increase in residential burglaries, definitely an increase in graffiti,” Williams said. “Lots of fights are happening, typically with people in the same age group.”

Patton said there have been fights at every house party in the last six months.

Bloomington’s juvenile arrests went up 13 percent, from 183 in 2006 to 208 in 2007, according to department statistics. During the same time period, adult arrests dropped about one-quarter, from 2,048 to 1,554.

Calls to Bloomington police with complaints about juveniles also skyrocketed, from 342 in 2006 to 1,309 in 2007.

Bloomington Police Sgt. Clay Wheeler said he is concerned about “senseless batteries,” in which random people were attacked for no real reason.

Look-alike guns

With the increased violence, officers also found more teens carrying look-alike handguns, primarily pellet guns, McQueen said. By August and September, “They started randomly assaulting people with these pellet guns, not just each other,” he said.

Calls about the weapons increased from one or two weekly to two or three nightly for the 3 to 11 p.m. shift, McQueen said.

Bloomington Police Lt. Pete Avery said last summer a 12- or 14-year-old was pointing what looked like a Smith & Wesson 9 millimeter handgun at random people in the 700 block of West Market Street. He dropped the pellet gun behind a fence before officers caught up with and handcuffed him. Everybody on the barrel side of the gun thought it was real, Avery said.

Carl Fever, a crime analyst for BPD, said the look-alikes are often stolen or given as gifts. And Wheeler said parents of teens who own the pellet guns should think twice before allowing their children access to them.

“You pull a fake gun out, somebody might come back with a real gun,” Wheeler said.

Wheeler said the greatest fear that most officers have is that a child will be injured because of a toy.

Cliques

Wheeler said the gangs have been particularly problematic in the Olde Towne neighborhood on Bloomington’s near-west side. Patton said Normal’s Orlando Avenue is probably the “hottest” area, but hangouts such as Bloomington’s Friendship Park and parking lots along Market Street will be busy this summer.

Wheeler said some of the teenagers likely are involved just to pass the time, and others want to hang out with friends, show they are tough and seem important.

Travis Burns, another Western Avenue counselor, described the groups more as cliques than gangs. As they grew, harassment motivated others to join, Patton said.

“You’re either going to be a part of it, or you’re going to be a victim of it,” Patton said.

A few small groups that formed last year did nothing more serious than write small amounts of graffiti, McQueen said. But one got the attention of the larger hybrids, drawing them into fights, he said.

“And we told them ‘bad idea,’” McQueen said. “You now look and smell and taste like prey to these other groups.”

But Patton said the new groups so far have avoided crossing the long-standing adult street gangs.

“They’re not crossing those lines to fool with those gangs because they’ll squash that in a second,” Patton said.

Combating violence

And the activity also has stayed out of the classrooms. Bloomington High School Principal Tim Moore said he has heard about two groups fighting outside of school, but there have not been more fights inside BHS in the last year. But some students told faculty and staff they still plan to settle disagreements off-campus.

“Is our school safe? Absolutely,” Moore said. “Are we proactive in preventing gangs and violence? Absolutely.”

Assistant State’s Attorney Aaron Hornsby, a juvenile court prosecutor, said he is aware of the new gang activity. But unlike what officers have said, he hasn’t seen a related increase in the number of violent crime reports.

Hornsby has noticed more youths admitting gang membership, as well as an increase in burglary charges, particularly among groups of youths checking for unlocked car and home doors.

Patton said at-risk teens need something positive to do — particularly paid work. Mike Harrison, another youth counselor and a District 87 school board member, said that just hearing someone say, “Man, just think about it” could have prevented some attacks.

Wheeler said Bloomington officers will break up large gatherings and bring juveniles back to their parents, and officers can flood areas to make it uncomfortable for people committing crimes. Williams added that Normal officers have increased patrols and visibility in areas frequented by hybrid gang members and are working on rounding up those causing problems.

McQueen said this is not the first time the communities have dealt with the issues, and he is confident they will keep things in check.

“The sky is not falling,” he said.




Juvenile crime



-- The number of group attack, or mob action, reports in Bloomington rose slightly, from 30 in 2006 to 36 in 2007, said Carl Fever, crime analyst for the Bloomington Police. But the number of juveniles arrested or identified as suspects jumped from 16 to 43 in the same time period.

-- The city’s aggravated battery reports involving juvenile attackers also rose from 43 in 2006 to 61 in 2007.

-- Normal Police arrested or issued ordinance violations to juveniles 583 times in 2007, up from 531 in 2006. But officers made fewer juvenile arrests in connection with fights and batteries.

-- In 2007, Bloomington police confiscated 15 look-alike pistols, such as BB or pellet guns that look like firearms. Seven of them were used in crimes such as firing them at people or illegally possessing them. That’s up from seven confiscated in 2006, one of which was used in a crime. There have been four confiscated so far this year, with one used in a crime.

-- Bloomington had nine juveniles arrested or suspected of unlawful use of weapons in 2007, up from four in 2006. Normal officers arrested four on similar charges in 2007 and none in 2006.

Take a look
Greg Patton, a street outreach worker with Western Avenue Community Center, drives Wednesday (March 26, 2008) in and out of different neighborhoods in Bloomington. (Pantagraph/CARLOS T. MIRANDA)
Police officers are finding more teens carrying look-alike handguns as shown next to a real gun Wednesday (March 26, 2008) at Bloomington Police Department. (Pantagraph/CARLOS T. MIRANDA)
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Reader comments on this story - 136 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

kutie411 wrote on Apr 13, 2008 11:01 PM:

" are these hybrid gang these things these little kids go around sayin chain gang bang bang , 4dn, lowelife,64 all this crap is uncalled for and its worthless the fight over nothin this is not real gangs all the real gangbangers are in jail "

protohooman wrote on Apr 13, 2008 6:05 PM:

" how bout being pro-active in this win-win situation and revitalize the visionary...ohh forget it. "

HawkCat wrote on Apr 12, 2008 4:56 PM:

" Why doesn't the State of Illinois simply outlaw possession of pellet pistols? Certainly with all the criminal acts committed with offenders using extremely realistic pellet pistols isn't it a logical step for our State legislature to consider? If you are concerned about pellet pistols, please write your State Senator and State Representative. These legislators were sent to Springfield to represent you, and you as a taxpayer pay their salaries, so you need to let them know your opinion. "

Bluegrass American wrote on Apr 12, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Why doesn't Blago or even our wonderful federal government ban the incoming of these so called replica hand guns? Other countries have done it. Tokyo Marui, the world's largest "airsoft gun" manufacturer is the U S's biggest importer. Why isn't our government doing anything about that? Keep feeding the problem. "

Normal Resident wrote on Apr 11, 2008 10:01 PM:

" Let cops profile...

3 or more individuals dressed in the same colored STREET clothing...not Best Buy uniforms...ask them for ID and run a check.

There's a difference in police asking 3 individuals wearing the same color clothing versus one individual driving a nice vehicle.

If it looks like dog crap and smells like dog crap...chances are really good it's dog crap. "

HawkCat wrote on Apr 11, 2008 7:03 PM:

" To johnd: Unfortunately, a good number of the juveniles in hybrid gangs moved to Bloomington-Normal after they were already gang involved elsewhere. Some kids are in families with a parent or older sibling as gang members. Some parents try to relocate here and start over with a better life for their children and escape the gang lifestyle, only to have a child join with some juveniles from other gangs, who are also trying to cope with relocating here. The result is "hybrid gangs" comprised of juveniles from established gangs in Chicago. Calling all these kids simple "wannabees" isn't correct. "

good ol boy wrote on Apr 10, 2008 4:00 PM:

" Youth centers, better schools, come on people! Smack them upside the head, if they block the street, honk the horn then run them over. They want attn. so give it to them, real good. Most will run when confronted and want mommy to help them! "

Burns wrote on Apr 10, 2008 8:19 AM:

" Let them be wannabe's. As long as they're pursuing a dead-end lifestyle, they're not competing with the others for jobs, scholarships, grants, contracts, bid-wins, favorable credit terms or anything else. You cannot pursuade the dumb to follow the straight and narrow and once they fall off, they're not worth heping. There aren't any second chances anymore, you make your choice and you live with it. No one else's fault. "

G. Larson wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:14 PM:

" to john d: pretty well, if you buy drugs in the city at wholesale prices, then take them down here to sell for a higher profit, as the supply is less here. I mean, that's exactly what half the "real" gangsters do around here: hustle drugs and other contraband between Chicago, Bloomington, even St. Louis, and everything in between. So, you're suggesting empowering them to become "real" gangs, rather than somewhat laughable imitation of them. I'd rather they be wannabes with lookalikes and their parents alcohol than the hardest of the hard with a bankroll and a weapons cache that could supply nothing short of an insurgency. to howard50: okay, but eventually they will be allowed out, after spending years doing nothing but sitting at the feet of true dons. So, what once was a petty thug comes out years later similar to Pablo Escobar. And don't even suggest "don't let them out", as you do understand that to suggest a life sentence for petty crimes is absolutely insane and profoundly fascist, similar to the worst nazi or communist. Perhaps something besides the exact same irrational emotional immaturity these very kids are being vilified for is in order? "

johnd wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:59 AM:

" Load them up and dump them off in Chicago if they want to be gang bangers.See how long they last up there. "

DT wrote on Apr 8, 2008 12:53 PM:

" I read the headline and thought this was about a bunch of Prius owners. "

bloomguy wrote on Apr 7, 2008 4:29 PM:

" lol....well the source of the problem is adults that have the mentality of a kid having kids, and not wanting to raise there kids properly. More kids you have === the more money and state aid you get. So to really fix the problem we need state impose tube tieing, which will never happen, and as the economy gets worse you will continue to hear about these sort of issues. "

Independent? wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Are we forgetting that we're talking about kids??? Yes, condemn their parents all you want, but simply throwing kids in jail and locking the key is not the answer. I feel like a middle ground approach is the best answer here. Yes, there needs to be strict punishment for this activity, but while within their punishment they should be recieving an education that will be worthwhile. Make community centers, improve the schools, get these kids in classrooms with teachers who care and will push them to succeed and we will see our gangs and crime go down much further than if we just throw the kids in jail. Go to the source of a problem and figure out where the gang mantality begins so we can better combat it. If jail and strict punishment were a deterrant we wouldn't be having this problem still. "

howard50 wrote on Apr 6, 2008 6:30 PM:

" LOCK THEM UP!!! Since they WANNABEE BAD, put them in cages like most wild animals are put! IF they are Adults or Crimes done have them charged as Adults then problem solved, "Throw Away the Key." If they are considered too young to be tried as Adults, put them and the adults responsible for them on NOTICE, along with the adult(s) responsible for them, being fined, held $financially responsible for whatever damages done, require the adult(s) responsible to attend parenting classes, give them mental evaluations, do background checks and drug test, becasue a lot of time, those apples are falling from those kind of trees. Nip it all in the bud from the beginning and I gurantee, they'll move on to a county they can get away with the kind of S#!$ they are trying to bring down in Mclean County. Please Mclean C, "PUT AND KEEP YOUR FOOT ON THEM ALL. CHILD AND PARENT, PARENT AND CHILD!!! "

BloomGuy wrote on Apr 6, 2008 11:23 AM:

" I love reading everyone's comments, time for the responible people to prepare, get your guns, get your family secure, as the economy keeps crumbling, and as people look to the government to answer the problems things are going to get worse. The government will keep taking from the responible and giving to the lazy. I'm not saying everyone on welfare is lazy, but come on reality is if you are on welfare for multiple years and you can't get your life together you are lazy and are incapable of making good choices for your life. I am tried of my tax dollars going to help you, to the people that have been or getting off welfare and now contribute to society I thank you! This is just another example of how a lot of parents have given up on there kids. "

Lurg86 wrote on Apr 6, 2008 7:58 AM:

" To The Original JD: Aren't you the same JD that is affiliated with council member Karen Scmidt? I am sure you are which makes it understandable why you would want to try and destroy a potential solution to a problem if it did not accompany your own personal agenda. After all you are the ones who do not listen to the citizens anyway, as in Tom Hamiltons raise. Besides JD you contradict yourself by in one post comparing the idea of rec centers not working in L.A. and other metropolitan areas, and then turn around and say resdients of B\N are trying to live the life of big city thugs. There is frankly nothing original about you JD. "

neves wrote on Apr 5, 2008 2:51 PM:

" it depends. are they Smoking, or Non-Smoking gangs? If theyre smoking... I guess we really DO have a problem! "

OC wrote on Apr 4, 2008 1:29 PM:

" Reply to Shadow: The reason for tearing down the buildings was to reclaim much of that prime lakefront and close to the lakefront real estate. Look at Stateway Gardens...22nd & Cermack. Folks were moved out and the buildings are being renovated into LUXURY CONDOS.

OTH, perhaps they wanted those residents to relocate here so that you could be a positive influence on them! "

J-Fly wrote on Apr 4, 2008 7:50 AM:

" I see this crap on a dailly basis. The parents are mainly responsable for this. They let their chilren run around at all hours unsupervised. Could the kids possibly be up to any good at two in the morning. Mainly speaking about the 700 block of West Orlando. It's pathetic. "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:16 PM:

" When i lived in Chi town i worked retail in a rather bad area. many of the kids had more cash than their parents( 12 year olds dropping 200 bucks for a radio controlled car etc.) how? by working in the parks for the gangs. as look outs for drug sales. and by holding the drugs for the older members. every time we lower the age that a juv. can be charged as an adult. they recruit younger kids to do these things. In my mind that means we can blame ourselves for these youngster getting involved in this type of activity. Also if the war on drugs had not made drug sales so profitable it would not be an issue. As it is it is profitable for law enforcement and the gangs. For law enforcement it means a larger amount of tax money to fight drug trafficking beside the boon of being able to keep what the confiscate in the form of cash and vehicles. they have a license to steal. They can accuse anyone of drug money and it is up to the person accused to prove it is not drug money. "

HRPuffinstuff wrote on Apr 3, 2008 10:10 AM:

" To Proud Conservative and Zeva: Nope, you both are wrong. Zeva, you have no idea who this woman is, yet you feel you are so much better than her that you get to make assumptions about the woman's life without knowing any of the facts? So what if she has 7 kids, that doesn't necessarily mean she's on welfare. For all you know her family is devout Catholic, doesn't believe in birth control, and love children therefore they have many? And Proud Conservative, I realize you only want to make your own pockets grow bigger, however you don't know the woman in labor either, therefore you have no right to make judgments. You both sound like haters that only feel good about themselves when saying nasty things about others. If that is all you got out of this article, then I feel sorry for both of you. "

Momof2 wrote on Apr 3, 2008 5:44 AM:

" I cannot believe what the poster named Zeva wrote...is he/she seriously a nurse? I have a sister-in-law who just had her 7th child, also. But, they have insurance, and are not on welfare. But, other's are not so fortunate. Does that give anybody the right to be critical? I just hope that I never end up at the hospital where he/she works at! "

420 man wrote on Apr 2, 2008 1:18 PM:

" by the way Geez! i am not trying to be tough, i am just trying to get through the day!! "

420 man wrote on Apr 2, 2008 12:34 PM:

" To Geez!

If they have a real gun then it looks like the end has came for me. All i am saying is if i am out somewhere and see a man or woman getting attacked or i am attacked while close to my car with then i do one of two things 1. Grab my pennies and start swinging or 2. if they have a weapon (not a gun) i grab my 7 iron and TEE OFF NO MATTER OF AGE!! I love life and don't want to leave it so i defend myself first and call my lawyer second!! "

Geez! wrote on Apr 2, 2008 8:28 AM:

" "420 man" - and while you're being car-jacked at gunpoint by one of these wannabes (granted, they're just kids who have no idea what "tough" means), you'll have the time to reach back for your golf club and roll of pennies? Or is it your intention to threaten this punk (who is obviously an idiot to begin with) with your lawyer? Who's the bigger idiot? Tough call. The idea is PREVENTION, not reaction. We need to get these wannabes from being in gangs to begin with but of course, once they made the asinine decision to join, find a way of getting them out. I agree with your inference that they need to be jailed / imprisoned after they commit a crime. bit that would only introduce them to real gangs. Then what? "

Moon Mullins wrote on Apr 2, 2008 6:03 AM:

" Hey, Jimmy Choo Girl. What's left of Cabrini Green is about three miles from Chinatown. I lived in a gang controlled Chicago neighborhood. Soldiers return from war. But it doesn't diminish the danger. These copycats run the risk of being recruted by the real gangs these kids are immitating. Also gangs are not all kids. The leadership are adults. They are highly organised crime syndicates. "

jipsi wrote on Apr 2, 2008 3:36 AM:

" normalguy,
I can't believe it, but I'm going to stand by what you just said and AGREE with you 100%.
There are social ills that go deeper than this PC discussion here can address or allow (of COURSE someone will read "racism" into that statement! DON'T. It's a simple statement of fact.) ...
Because of that "set of hobbles", there will be no purposeful dialogue, let alone ideas and steps to solutions...
"

420 man wrote on Apr 1, 2008 9:22 PM:

" I have a 7 iron and a roll of pennies in my car, and in my wallet is the card of my lawyer who will get me out of ALMOST anything. Thats all I need "

normalguy wrote on Apr 1, 2008 8:30 PM:

" reading some of these posts it is obvious the problem will only continue to get worse. we are not allowed to accuratley indentify the problem, so we will not be allowed to solve it. to do so is called racism. "

LDT wrote on Apr 1, 2008 5:14 PM:

" I think that it is funny how a lot of folks who work in outreach programs look like thugs themselves.
I think that it is a fine line to walk to be in that position. Most likely the person has some "experience" in the street. Hopefully they have outgrown that phase of their life and have learned from their mistakes.
I am glad that they want to give back by pointing youths in the right direction. That is phenomenal. But therein lies the problem. In order to get the attention of the youths theyre trying to help, they must relate to them. It is probably hard to relate to thugs (or potential thugs) unless you look like them. In order to do your job you must look like a thug. However, when it is time to be taken seriously by John Q Public, that doesnt work.
It must be a difficult job to have. Hard to relate to the ones you are helping unless you look like a thug. Then in order to make policy changes you have to convince city officials who dont respect you because of the way you look. "

LDT wrote on Apr 1, 2008 5:00 PM:

" I dont think that building rec centers will do anything to prevent (or slow down) these "gangs". As many others have noted, all it does is give the gang a central location that they can go to in hopes of establishing connections with other areas of the city. Essentially, it is a place that the gangs can go to recruit others, sell drugs, etc.

I also dont think that it is the parents fault 100% of the time. These kids are just fascinated by what they see in the movies and tv. They see these movies or TV shows and see the $ that thugs make. They want to do that. It is about making a quick buck. Once they go out and realize how easy it is to actually do that stuff, they continue doing it.

Im not saying that parents have no role in the problem, but not as big as some people would suggest. I mean, I grew up in the city and knew plenty of kids with good parents who still ended up in gangs. Many times the parents were at their wits end with their kids. "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:57 PM:

" This is not about Latin Kings, Bloods & Crypts - gangs that you can find in Chicago, LA, New York, etc. Real gangs sell drugs, kill and regulate their neighborhoods. Yes we have gang affiliates in B-N but that's not what this article is about. These are a bunch of young punks in B-N wishing they were as "cool" as the real gangs and that's all there is to it. So get off the dang Chicago thing jeez!

And you can put me in the slums of Mexico or right smack dab in Cabrini Green and I'll be just fine. :) I stayed in China Town one time and decided to venture out one night (in my Jimmy Choos)...I ended up in Cabrini Green (It's very close to China Town). And guess what...I'm alive!!!

Mexico - Playa Del Carmen - area by the beach is great but go too far into town (like my adventureous self did) and you will be in a place that looks much worse than Cabrini Green). But guess what...I'm alive!!!

Anything else Shadow? : ) "

happy one wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:11 PM:

" re all the chicago comments- it doesn't matter anymore where it came from, it is here and needs dealed with. It is not going to leave on its own. I think the police should have more help , and have more ways available to them to handle it. Give the police more authority, and back them up. "

happy one wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:07 PM:

" re shadow: if you read my earlier posting you will see that I do not support just throwing more money at welfare families. The system should have a shut off point, I'm tired of paying taxes to support others large families that won't do it them selves.The job comment is because education is the only way to stop alot of the problem - teach parenting classes, birth control and how to make money legally to support the family you choose to make. Put the responsibility back to the family, not taxpayer. "

Shadow wrote on Apr 1, 2008 2:51 PM:

" Crime and gang activity has sharply increased since our new neighbors arrived, this is publicly available information. The prrof is in the pudding, regardless of what Mr. Cima is asking you to swallow. Am I afraid of going to Chicago? No. would I wonder around what's left of Cabrini Green and it's 2000 remaining residents? You'd have to be an idiot to do that. Thats why I'd like to recommend JimmyChooGirl go up and check it out. Let us know all about it if you make it back. It's funny that you are all so incapable of forming your own conclusions and take newspaper articles as gospel. I suppose it doesn't make your brain hurt as much if conclusions are spood fed to you, does it JimmyChoo? "

The Original JD wrote on Apr 1, 2008 1:39 PM:

" Residents of BN pretend to live in a 'city'. They pretend to have a 'ghetto'. Now their kids pretend to be thugs from the ghetto. Seems about par for the course. "

dwarf wrote on Apr 1, 2008 1:31 PM:

" You're exactly right that it doesn't, Geez!

However, when someone keeps on saying that "people from Chicago" are causing all of our problems, what do they really *mean*? Do they mean poor people? Black? Hispanic? Obviously, simply being from Chicago doesn't mean you're a gang member. So what is it about folks who move from Chicago who make them immediately suspect to the fine Pantagraph commenters?

I believe it's a racist sentiment, judging by the content of the comments I read. You can try to play pin-the-name-on-the-accuser if you'd like, but to deny that racism is a problem in Blo-No is ... well, denial. "

Geez! wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:15 PM:

" "dwarf" - why is it that YOU associate "people from Chicago" to mean "black people"? Why do you see racism where there is none? FYI, I currently live in downtown Chicago, and I'm not black. While a large percentage of people begging for money for "something to eat" are black, not all are, and I do not associate them as being of one color. Are all "people from Chicago" who are gang-bangers or pseudo-gang-bangers black? White? Hispanic? Of course not. It's a mixture and they all have one thing in common - they are all incredibly stupid for being in gangs or wanting to be in gangs. Race doesn't matter - it's their behavior and actions. Race does not make you a gang member - a severe lack of intelligence and common sense does seem to be a pre-requisite for membership, however. (Yes, I am well aware of many gangs that are race-oriented, and they are still idiots.) "

dwarf wrote on Apr 1, 2008 10:55 AM:

" So, just so I'm straight on the jargon here - when the fine Pantagraph commenters are saying "people from Chicago" they really mean "black people," right?

I mean, I'm sensing a lot of barely-concealed racism here. Especially when the article itself says that these hybrid gangs are primarily *local*.

You folks need to stop looking at gangs merely as mischief-causing delinquents. Gangs are big money; they're an essential part of the drug distribution system. All the other stuff is secondary. If you take away the money, you take away a lot of the incentives of gang membership. "

bored wrote on Apr 1, 2008 10:08 AM:

" It is a shame that kid with the gun didn't get popped. Thats a Darwin award waiting to happen. Anyone else think they should turn Friendship Park into a juvie center? "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Apr 1, 2008 8:56 AM:

" Shadow - I'm not the one seeing unicorns and fairies. If you would read my ealier post about ignorant people (like you maybe?) thinking that Bloomington-Normal was this wonderful Utopia before the Chicagoians came, you would know that I am not naive to the fact there is problems in Bloomington-Normal. But to say B-N didn't have these problems before the "big Chicago move" is ignorant.

And Chicago has nothing to do with these "local" kiddie gangs that this article is all about...read it again. Heaven for bid there are bad apples that didn't come from Chicago. Let's blame Chicago for the fierce winds we had lastnight. After all it's the windy city. While we're at it, let's blame Chicago for the war too.

Shadow - do you not visit Chicago in fear of the big city folk and the horrible gangs that will attack you? *L* "

Shadow wrote on Apr 1, 2008 7:40 AM:

" HappyOne: Worry about your own job if you have one. I agree with Ziva, personally. I'm sick of paying for other peoples kids. Especially considering the fact that most of them wont contribute anything to society. We reward them for having more kids with more benefits. It makes me ill. But I suppose without them to champion and protect all of you bleeding heart liberals that most likely grew up in all white schools in an upper middle class families (thus comfotably insulated from the realities of gangs and public housing zoos) wouldnt have a cause to martyr yourselves for. "

Shadow wrote on Apr 1, 2008 7:33 AM:

" JimmyChooGirl (and some other in this thread) your comments tell me you don't know much about exactly who they moved down here. These were residents in the most dangerous gang riddled housing project in Chicago. They razed it because it was a festering pit of drugs and violence, and redistributed the scum to other parts of the state, like B\N. Now you can choose to imagine unicorns and rainbows and pretend that my some magical twist of fate B\N didnt get any of the bad elements, or you can grow up and face the reality that we did, and they are directly contributing to new gang formation and the rising crime rate in this town. If you know a policeman in this town, just ask them about thier take on it. "

Shadow wrote on Apr 1, 2008 7:18 AM:

" Are you people seriously using the argument that because the Cabrini Green move was years ago that somehow any danger associated with it has somehow just fizzled out? Thats like saying why are you still worried about Al Queda, 9\11 was YEARS ago! You can't take one of Chicago's worst and most notoriously dangerous housing projects, move it here, experience a sharp rise in west side crime and gang activity since the move, and then say one has nothing to do with the other unless you are just not too bright. What do you think the city is going to say? "Yep, that Cabrini Green move caused all this." That wouldnt look to good would it? "

Geez! wrote on Mar 31, 2008 10:40 PM:

" Gangs are stupid. People who are in them are complete and total moronic idiots who will follow anyone like blind sheep to slaughter. Who's worse - the fool or the fool who follows the fool? "

happy one wrote on Mar 31, 2008 9:46 PM:

" re zeva: if you work in healthcare , you should not be judging your patients. The only thing you should do to help is to educate and support. Shame on you. You don't always know the full story, maybe she is supported by welfare, but maybe her kids are well cared for and loved. You can't tell that with only labor room meeting. But I do feel public aid should only cover first 2-3 kids, and after that you, work to support the rest. "

happy one wrote on Mar 31, 2008 9:41 PM:

" The big draw that gangs have is the feeling of belonging to something/group that gives you acceptance and support. If more of the parents who have kids involved in gangs were there for their kids- there would be alot less kids in these groups. Lack of parental responsibility there , still it is not the responsibilty of the taxpayers to provide this. Maybe I would agree for taxpayer dollars to go to parenting classes for the adults of these kids. But I still think the mentality of some parents would not change even with this. You first have to care, and then want to improve your kids chances in life. You just don't have it in most cases. "

Realist wrote on Mar 31, 2008 7:29 PM:

" And one more thing, if any punk gang ever laid a hand on my child, my advice would be to run and hide, run and hide. "

Realist wrote on Mar 31, 2008 7:20 PM:

" Do you know why gangs hang out in cities? Because they wouldn't get away with their crap in the country. In my opinion, these groups are very insecure and try to pray on the weak to prove they're tough. I live southeast of Bloomington, I would invite any punk gangs out to my area. Why don't you venture out to where I live, away from where police are patrolling and we'll see how you do. I think they're a group of cowards myself, why don't you come out to the country where we take care of things ourselves. Good luck to you, if you do. "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:55 PM:

" What is the deal with the Chicago crap? That was years ago and even if they hadn't moved their less then ideal citizens here, we'd still have gangs, shootings, etc. Grow up people! Chicago is a great city!!! Full of culture, class & opportunity. You should be proud to have such a great city as part of your state. Yes Chicago has a lot of violence and gang activity but it's the 3rd biggest city in the U.S.; I mean St. Louis alone has been named a more dangerous city to live in. Geez! It's like you think B-N was some magical Utopia before the Chicagoians moved this way. *L*

Anywhere you go, it's what you make of it! "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:47 PM:

" Zeva - It seems to me you must be a doctor or a nurse to know that a woman was giving birth to her 7th child??? If that's true that makes me sick. Doctors & nurses choose those professions because they want to help people, not make fun of them. And if you saw this on T.V. or something - you comments still make me sick. "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:38 PM:

" Continued...nice bikes would appear outside their homes. The oldest would beat the crap out of the younger ones while the mom watched. They would scream sexist names at me, their mom just watched. One day a knock on our door came, all the boys (+ a friend) were at our door begging for water because they said they didn't have any. My husband gave them all a glass of water, they left. 5 minutes later the "friend" came back and said "I'm sorry but he stole this" gave my husband his lighter back that he had on the table. Nice huh? I felt bad for the kids because I realized it's not these kids fault. They didn't have a chance from day one. They were finally evicted after numerous calls to the police. My other section 8 neighbors actually parent their children.

My point is, it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor - your children our your responsibility and if you don't teach them they will do what these poor boys did....these boys are the gangs of the future. :( "

What now? wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:36 PM:

" "wtf are u thinking" You ask why blame the parents? Kids are the parents responsibility! No one else's. If you do something wrong as a minor it reflects the parents. When I was growing up, my parents always knew what I was doing even when I was trying to be sneaky. Take responsibility when you have kids. I directly look at the parents when you see young kids out past 8 pm. What are they doing out there? Where are the parents when they are out that late? Hopefully you do not have kids! "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:24 PM:

" It's the parents fault. I will describe my neighbhoorhood...on the left side of my street there are $275,000 houses. On the other, there is Section 8 housing. I had no problem living right in the middle until I got new neighbors last summer. A mom (I'm guessing), the grandpa, an adult son (I think he was slow) and 5 kids under the age of 10 all living in a very small 2 bedroom apartment. A lot of the nights the kids (remember under 10) would sleep in the familys huge SUV (that had 2 tv's flat screen tvs in it) unsupervised. Every Tuesday (trash pick up on Wednesday) the kids would climb in the dumpster and drag things out into their homes leaving a garbage mess everywhere - the mom just watched every time. They spray painted "F*CK" on our sidewalk. We called the cops after taking pictures of them. They threw a beer bottle at a home window - cops came. I don't think they were allowed inside their apartment from 8 a.m. til 10 p.m. because they were always running all over the neighborhood.......... "

townie here... wrote on Mar 31, 2008 12:00 PM:

" To Zeva...I'm sorry...but as you used blind prejudice on this alleged woman (where did you see her with her six kids and one on the way?? Your front yard?), I will use blind prejudice on you. You sound like a mean person. Hope you're proud of your opinion that has given a few other people the same impression towards you that you've given me... Congrats! "

townie here... wrote on Mar 31, 2008 11:36 AM:

" Also, just want to further my point by saying to Shadow, if you're thinking that these gangs maybe the children of the folks that moved here from Chicago, I'd have to go back and say that that would be considered an affiliation with gangs of Chi which again, this article states it's not.

And lastly, get off the Chicago thing. Those are good people...and that move was years ago. Get over yourself. "

townie here... wrote on Mar 31, 2008 11:31 AM:

" To Shadow....uh, did you even read this or just presume gangs we're from upstate. "They have no affiliation with gangs in Chicago or St. Louis"...that's actually the second sentence in the article. I'm afraid it's not what you think...and the coliseum has nothing to do with this. Got news for ya, like it or not...the coliseum is here. No need to "randomly" complain (in a gang violence articly no less) about things that are not going to change...B/N is no longer the tiny vanilla bubble that I'm sure you still pretend it to be. "

middle of the road wrote on Mar 31, 2008 11:29 AM:

" Gangs are nothing but terrorist organizations. See them for what they are. "

Truth and Justice wrote on Mar 31, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Big surprise. Many requested no police cuts, begging for more of a police presence. Chief Aiken told the Council crime was down. Schmidt and Hanson both said how happy they were to hear that. (Aiken of course could not provide numbers per Ward). It's time to get back to basics. Safety being #1 as stated in the mission of the city. "

Shadow wrote on Mar 31, 2008 8:30 AM:

" Who's the idiot that OK'ed moving the Chicago housing project down here again? Talk about selling your soul, and the soul of your town. The Collisuem isn't worth having to deal with these animals. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:14 AM:

" (cont.)That was Then: I was going to parties, at the lake, in town, in cornfields, at 15. And there were drugs aplenty there, not just kegs and kegs of beer or troughs of ether-laced punch and other "hard" drinks. There was PLENTY for parents to worry about "back then", as now.
This is NOW: The difference between now and then, though, is that WE were getting together to party, and those rarely, if ever, got violent. The worst "crime" was possibly bashing in people's mailboxes along country roads, and, of course, the DUI's and illegal possession/consumption.
The youth gangs of today, however, are assembling almost exclusively for criminal activity. And they would visit a new rec center, but NOT to exclude their gang activity. It would be used, as JM2 suggested with accuracy, to COMPLEMENT and supplement their criminal pursuits. You have to understand teenager mentality. Even the "good kids" have a keen interest in what's "cool". To gang-bangers, "giving up" their gang brotherhood to hang out at the rec-center would be avoided at all costs as "uncool". The mindset is so much more complicated than "giving them something better to do or someplace better to go"... "

jipsi wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:08 AM:

" Supporting JM2's post (mostly): Even in the late 70's there was a certain amount of gang activity in the area, although not so much in the towns themselves. The "problem" back then was the drug culture, and I can attest to that being a real concern for parents and city officials. I was a teen, and visited various "rec center" type places.
We played the jukebox, bowled, shot pool, played foosball and pinball.
But we were also waiting to "hook up" (the THEN meaning of MEETING people, not having sex with them, as today's usage of the word implies) with party people. Every teen in town that hun out there KNEW this was the place to be to get "that address".
If my parents had known, and NOT allowed me to hang out there, I might not have gotten into some of the questionable groups I became involved with.(cont.) "

jipsi wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:56 AM:

" to Prof: Point taken, and I will state I meant no personal offense. Your first post (the one I indicated in mine), on the surface, seemed to take the situation too lightly for my taste, so I spoke my piece. After reading your later posts on this subject, I can see you do take the situation seriously. "

BloNo4Life wrote on Mar 31, 2008 12:12 AM:

" more cops in the bad sections of our town, tougher sentences for gang activity, parental accountability with these little gangsters, 2 child limit on welfare, and we need a judge in this town to set down some unique sentences. for example, if a gangster is caught stealing then the judge should force the gangster to stand in front of local businesses with a sign that reads "i steal from stores and i got caught" or "i think im a gangster but i live in bloomington normal, farming capital of the world" for 50 hours. something of that nature. "

jm2 wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:11 PM:

" Let's get real here . . . "recreational activities" and "places to go" (aka something for these kids to do) are not going to help the gang problem in BN. Kids join gangs because they have a crappy home life period. Parent doesn't supervise, parent is a drug addict or alcoholic, parent doesn't know how to be a "real" parent, etc. Again, period. It's common sense - the only thing that is going to curb gang activity is to make the parent(s) responsible. When someone figures out how to do this, wah-lah! Problem solved. "

BigBrother wrote on Mar 30, 2008 10:28 PM:

" To McLovin it:

Sorry you are not up on the laws. What these gangs are doing is illigal. Gathering together, loitering in pubilc parking lots challenging people in a threatening manner is illigal. Intimidating or threatening others and coercing any property or money from them is illigal. They can be arrested and their parents held accountable for their illigal activities. Further, under HUD regulations, participants are required to abide by all laws and ordinances under penalty of forfeiture of benifits. It is also the requirement (not optional) that all police officers inforce these ordinances. Further under the nuisance laws in Bloomington/Normal landlords may be fined and properties closed down when there is repeated illigal activities and they do not take action. The Illinois forfeiture laws allow seizure of this property. The appropriate action is eviction. Look up the law on the cities web page. It makes more sense to inforce the law and hope to wake up parents and juveniles before it escalates to more violent activities. That is democracy protecting the rights and safety of all citizens. "

TheProf wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:35 PM:

" to jipsi

you clearly didnt understand my comment.....Im saying kids here dont understand what means to live in a true ghetto (well some do, but most dont), so for the kids to sit here and act all tough is a joke, and yes people from the real hood would laugh at these kids...like it or not....i there is a problem, but it isnt like gang problems in other large cities like stl or chicago (although we here in blo-no like to make it seem like it is), i think the problem needs to be addressed before it gets worst.... "

Proud Conservative wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:30 PM:

" I think Zeva's right. Until we get smart and quit feeling sorry for people, we'll never get fixed what's wrong with this country. If these people got jobs and learned that 50% of their income goes to support lowlifes like this, maybe there would be fewer lowlifes milking the system. Feeling sorry and loving people like this has gotten us nowwhere as a nation. Limit welfare to 2 kids. You have 6 more, you're on your own. Get a job like everyone else. Just getting up and going to work every day teaches kids responsibility. "

TUK wrote on Mar 30, 2008 7:12 PM:

" BHS Principal Tim Moore's comments are half-truths. As a former, life-long career teacher in District 87 this is what we faced. The District Administration was provided a list from law enforcement agencies of "known or suspected" gang members in our community. We, as teachers, requested, then demanded this information-only to be told it was a "need-to-know" or "right-to-privacy" situation. We were on the front line every day, but it was none of our business?Then people blame teachers,professors, counselors, etc. OK, we'll get over it. "

Candy79 wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:43 PM:

" A comment to Zeva. That was so wrong of you to say that about that woman because first of all you don't know that woman or how she is raising her children and just becasue she is on welfare doesn not mean that she is a bad mother or her kids will grow up to be in gangs. I think you may want to stop making assumptions because that is one of the things that's wrong with this country today. "

McLovin It wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:39 PM:

" To: BigBrother. First, read the language for "child endangerment & child neglect". Neither fits 99.9% of the activity that's happening. DCFS has enough to do already than to worry about kids who are not truly in danger and baby-sit the ones that do want to be in gangs. Do you actually think today's liberal governents/society would remove someone's subsidy authorization? Get real!! Also, I'm not sure what country you live in, but you can't force landlords to evict someone and/or confiscate their property by allowing (good luck proving this one!) drug sales on their property. We're a democratic nation, not a fascist one. "

cocoa wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:39 PM:

" To Zeva: What a juvenile, prejudiced attitude you have. "

cocoa wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:36 PM:

" Funnily enough, when I was a teen there were no teen centers. Yet I didn't have any interest in becoming a gang member. Neither did any of my friends, or any of my classmates for that matter. Maybe it's because, even though I was raised by a single parent, I was in a solid home environment with a parent that cared and appropriately disciplined me if I stepped out of line. I didn't have a cell phone, a TV in my room, even a landline phone in my room. My parent knew where I was at all times and I had a reinforced curfew. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. Kids need guidance, discipline and love. They don't need a rec center to prevent them from joining a gang. Gangs are surrogate families for kids. Get to the root of the problem, which is the home environment, and we will see less kids in gangs. "

Candy79 wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:35 PM:

" I just wanted to say to oldlady that I live on the 700 block of Orlando and my kids are doing very well. I just moved to Orlando on New Year's Eve and I have 2 kids a son who is 3 and a daughter who is 16. My daughter does not hang around the kids that live in our community becasue she knows that it's not cool to want to be like them. She gets good grades, and wants to be a lawyer. She is a leader not a follower. Not all parents that live in this community are bad parents and neither are their kids. It would not be fair to as you said "put a fence around the community and let them fight it out with each other" becasue that would mean fencing in the good people as well. And do you think that calling these misguided teens "animals" is going to help? "

Bluedog wrote on Mar 30, 2008 5:02 PM:

" From the comments posted here it looks like we need a whole lot of " Obama " conversation about " race and class " . A " carrot and stick " approach is needed with alot of emphasis on the carrot early on before society swings the club. At an average of $ 30,000 per year to house a prisoner ( doesn't count all of the legal system expense before they get to the big house ) we need a nation wide effort to combat youth crime. Should include individuals, churches and government agencies working together. "

Jud wrote on Mar 30, 2008 3:19 PM:

" To Zeva: Why did you post such a nasty comment? Do you personally know this woman? How do you know she's on welfare? How do you know how many children she has? Were you there? Do you work at the hospitol she was in? If that's the answer, then you are giving out personal information that is illegal. Withe that said, you should be ashamed of yourself for judging someone you don't even know. Just because a person has a big family (I have five) does that mean they are on welfare? In this case, you are the pathetic one. As for the gangs, I really don't think anybody has the answers. If they did there wouldn't be any to start with now would there. "

floyd wrote on Mar 30, 2008 3:08 PM:

" There's more to do than when I was a kid. As long as someone has a basketball,football baseball etc. we found something to do. Same goes for fishing,swimming, riding our bikes on and on. Face it it's the by product of the liberal social welfare system that's become a blight on this country. Start making them work for their handouts and they'll soon clean up their act. Two recent articles showed 1 in 10 in Ohio was on food stamps. 1 in 6 in West Virginia was on food stamps. You can bet they wear designer jeans and fancy $200 sneakers and have cell phones,internet and a better vehicle than most drive. "

wtf are u thinking wrote on Mar 30, 2008 1:56 PM:

" What are all you people thinking why blame the parents ?
Where should the blame go to every person in this town thats where !!! not all parents are doing a good job but it is the kids choice to do right or wrong even kids with good parents get in trouble is it the judges fault his son was out drinking underage why blame the parents they talked to him about it but he made a choice just like all these kids are making the choice

get out of the house and get involved walk the orlando area tell the kids to go home if they are blocking your driveway get out of your car and move them along you are the adult when kids think they have the upper hand and the power they will try to take more
to the reader who said Mr Patton was sugar coating everything get off this man he is out there talking to these kids daily trying to help them your sitting in your house get involved if you want a better area of town to live in then make your part of town better!!!!!!!!! "

OC wrote on Mar 30, 2008 1:33 PM:

" May of the hybrid members/founders are kids who have spent the majority of their lives here in B/N. I know that some of them have been members of various sports teams in B/N and the high schools. Unfortunately, they mistakenly thought they could participate on school teams while doing their crimes. It's unfortunate that some of these kids have chosen this path. I know that many of them have been exposed to what's right, but they'd rather follow the wrong path. Most of them come from homes that have more drama then you would ever see on TV. It's sad and unfortunate. I commend Greg Patton for doing what he does. He has devoted countless hours of his own time to try and preserve peace in B/N. Again, unfortunately, it's falling on deaf ears. Many of these kids won't "get it" until they "get it"...that is a prison sentence. "

OC wrote on Mar 30, 2008 1:16 PM:

" To REDBIRDQUEN69:
So immediately you identify black kids that socialize with other black kids. First, what's wrong with that? And second, what about the white kids that socialize with white kids? Are you saying the white kids don't cause trouble? If so, you better look past your nose and think again. Typical, automatically start blaiming one segment of society. "

MRS. wrote on Mar 30, 2008 12:24 PM:

" Well Zeva, my Dad worked 2 jobs and my Mother stayed at home but we hade a very large garden she tended to, did our clothes on a wash board ( I remember the first wringer washer she got) I am one of 11 children and we didn't form any gangs. I have 7 children and I started work at age 12 (earlier if you count work on the farm including killing chickens for Sunday dinner) By the grace of God I didn't raise any gang members. Sometimes parents can do everything right and still have a child that has problems. I agree however I wouldn't want to raise children today. Ethics just aren't the same. They have been replaced with a "you owe me" attitude. TO: 2cents. Confronting these "thugs" alone sure wouldn't be a wise idea. The thinking that "they won’t do anything" isn’t wise. I also agree’ the absents of a Mother AND Father in the home creates the majority of the problems but not all. People can deny all they ant but being a child or raising children back in the day as 100% better than today’s poor me society we have now. "

Dave wrote on Mar 30, 2008 12:21 PM:

" Pt. 2Thank God for many who make the effort to climb out of poverty even though the deck is stacked against them. You can get out. It's a hard road, it takes a lot of effort overcoming the obstacles. Those who try are usually rewarded. But in most cases it means leaving community and many times leaving families.
But, I'm not so sure this is enough. Common sense would tell us that there aren't enough good paying jobs for everyone. Corporations who believe in the bottom line more than they believe in the country don't worry about poverty. In America, if we have a job we're not much more than a body with a number assigned to it that can be used and discarded at their whim. This truth discourages many. "

Dave wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:49 AM:

" There's been some good thought provoking ideas here today, plus as usual, some ideas bordering on the insane.
Prof hit the problem on the head. It's the home environment that usually makes the kids what they are.
We're pretty good at pointing out problems but when it comes to solutions it seems we're butting our heads against a wall.
These kids have to be convinced that education is vital.
I'm not so sure that will happen unless we change the homes. I blame the war on drugs that has incarcerated so many lower income men. This has taken them away from families that need them, plus, more than anything, it has instilled in them the "I don't give a crap" attitude.
This attitude flows right down the pipeline to the kids, who more than likely will follow in the parents footsteps. They begin acting it out when they join gangs.
"

mike1118 wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:41 AM:

" What a joke. The only time you see these cats on the Westside of Bloomington is when the Pantagraphs with them. "

Please wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:36 AM:

" You what is ironic is this is the day and age of rewarding and extolling the virtues of single motherhood. If motherhood is so great and grand why are the kids being born to these great single mothers so bad? It's not just lack of fathers... it's both! We must stop spending $ reactively and spend it proactively to educate parents and kids. Not just girls, who frankly are being patronized by the media to be mothers outside of a solid relationship, but also boys who need to know and accept responsibility for their actions. I was a single father who never received a dime of support for raising my son. I didn't need an award or pat on the back to do take care of my son and maintain a responsibility for a child "I" made. Greg Patton, you are a good man! Thank you for standing in the gap for those mothers and fathers who have abandoned their parental posts. "

2 cents wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:22 AM:

" Gangs are just a group of punks, whom alone are sissys who would not do anything. "

dwarf wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:15 AM:

" It's really funny to read all the denials in the comments here. "Our kids are good! It's only the people from *Chicago* who are bad!" It can't possibly be our town's problem - it's some OTHER town's problem, and we're just innocent victims. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Get real. This is a small city, but plenty big enough for home-grown drug and crime problems. Whenever you have poverty (and BN has plenty of that), drugs (ditto), and the potential to make illegal money (yes, absolutely) - there will be gangs. Gangs don't exist to terrorize; they exist to make money. If BN weren't fertile soil, no amounts of "inner-city transplants" could cause problems.

As long as you keep pretending like this is some other town's problem, you won't be able to fix it. "

dwarf wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:03 AM:

" Excellent reporting, Pantagraph. I'd love to see more articles like this - good, local information. "

KDee wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:02 AM:

" To: Zeva
What a really judgmental thing for you to say. You don't know if the woman was on welfare or not. Maybe she is part of a religion that doesn't believe in birth control. Maybe she has a good job and she's taking care of her own kids, maybe she has a husband or boyfriend that supports his family. It's not up to you to pass judgement. One of her many kids could grow up become a doctor and save some one in your family. "

BeTheChange wrote on Mar 30, 2008 10:50 AM:

" This article is upsetting, but what's more upsetting to me is all the people posting that these children are animals and have the parents "fixed". Who are we to judge anyone. We have no idea what is going on in their lives. I know that I am a good mother. I know people on welfare who are good mothers & fathers. No one is perfect and if we want our community to be peaceful, then we have to make it that way. We should all set examples and stop blaming & judging one another. Seems to me whats missing is love. "

buckeye wrote on Mar 30, 2008 10:14 AM:

" A youth center with bars and barbed wire would do the trick .Maby some activitys like roadside clean up or creating smaller rocks would keep these kids in line. "

udawgn wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:43 AM:

" Hey all, you know that sometimes kids with good parents mess up too. Kids are impressionable to a point and if anything these lil' "cliques" are doing triggers the kid's brain as something exciting then they will partake. As a good parent you can try to teach you kids good moral values and explain actions/consequences and ultimately it is up to the child to decide...when they are out of the parents reach. Not all of these kids parents are bad...so stop bashing them!! "

udawgn wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:36 AM:

" Santo Fan, I think sending them to prison is a big mistake and I will tell you why. Most of these kids need something to do with their time. The cost to join sports around this town are outrageous and there isn't alot of room in the after school programs as well. Sports need to be less expensive and more kids would join. There needs to be more after school programs too. Think about it...if they aren't violent now...they may be forced to be in prison. Prison desensitizes you to where you will kill if you feel you must. Also, they learn to be better criminal in prison. They have nothing but time there and other inmates will fill their heads with ways to become better criminals. "

happy one wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:28 AM:

" It is not the city's responsbility to babysit these kids, these are alot of activities out there to keep them busy. Has anyone looked at Blm. park/rec. activity book. The parents need to look at activities for their kids. The police are doing the job, can't say much for court system. But most are minors, off the record at 18 and kids know this. Schools also have activities available if kids interested. But the parent needs to stimulate the interest. There lies the problem. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:21 AM:

" I'd like to see the parent(s), if any, jailed for at least one night. It might not do any good in some cases, but in others it might make a HUGE difference. One thing you might have to worry about, ironically, is violence- perpetrated by the parent on the kid for subjecting him/her to such humiliation. Let's look down the road, folks. This problem is only going to get worse if something isn't done about it NOW. Do you want Bloomington to become more like Chicago, or Cleveland, or (God forbid) East St. Louis? "

jipsi wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:08 AM:

" (cont.)
Prisons that "look the other way" in the context of inmate gangs are also responsible for indirectly perpetuating gang-growth; what do lawmakers think will happen when these thugs are released, yes, even when relocated to a "quiet" town so they can "get a fresh start" in a "family oriented" environment??
They BRING IT with them.
They might TRY, for awhile, to lead ordinary lives. But they start missing "the old days", the "old friends"...

And until something is done, whether by leading names in the entertainment field or a more grassroots campaign spearheaded by PARENTS of these youth, to CONTAIN the VIOLENCE that this culture's "music" (gangsta rap) and "lyrics" employ to ENCOURAGE the youth to "roll like dis", it will continue, and get much worse.Mind you, I don't like hop hop or rap; that''s just my personal opinion. But the callous disregard for human life, the abominable mistreatment of women, the lust for money, sex and bling "anyway they can git it", of the more subversive "gangsta rap", is good for NO ONE.
This is NOT something the kids do just because they're BORED. It's a LIFESTYLE and CULTURE many cannot break from.
"

The Original JD wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:08 AM:

" To: Lurg86 - It has been tried in both Chicago and LA, both with huge gang populations. Want to know what happened? The gang started using the facilities to make contact and coerce the 'good' kids. Why not? Many of the kids were being accosted by gangs traveling to and from these activity centers. They were having drugs pushed on them on the corners right by the building. I suggest YOU do your research before touting the liberal byline. Most liberal ideas have been tried over and over, and still fail. Repeating the liberal mantra will not make them work. "

Paladin wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:01 AM:

" Not enough youth activities? OK, I'll play along. The next time you build a "skate park", get some input from the kids you expect to use it, so it doesn't end up being "lame". If you're worried about liability, spend some extra money getting some EMTs on staff, and make the kids wear pads and helmets. If they don't, take their picture and ban them. Same thing with other kiddie activities. You can get your seed money from all sorts of grants, including foundation availability for "community development" and Federal "faith based" organizations. There ARE not-for-profit security organizations out there, and their training (and liability coverage) is only mitigated by the fiduciary output that supports them (see "grants", above, plus Homeland Security training grants). After you've done that, you can gripe about "kids these days", or "no more morality in today's society", or whatever. Gangs are about money. It takes money to offset the money they make. There you have it. "

jipsi wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:50 AM:

" (cont.)
I knew some of these "relocated" kids, as my kids went to school and made friends with them, and they'd come over to hang out with mine, where they'd all watch TV, play video games, trade Pokemon cards and talk about WWF wresting stars for hours. But as young as NINE, the "new" kids were admiring their "visiting" uncle from St. Louis/Chicago (and I can spot a THUG a mile off), and it was easy to see where that "admiration" was going to take them. Even that young, they began wearing "borrowed" (from their uncle, big brother, etc.) caps and colors. Three years later, they were unrecognizable to us.
LAUGHING about this subject is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Saying "oh, this town's like heaven compared to" the city, etc. only works for the TRANSPLANTS; those of us who've lived here our whole lives SEE, SMELL and HEAR the HUGE differences, and the changes are DRASTIC, not gradual. A "little bad" to someone else (used to city and crime) might be UNACCEPTABLE to others (used to law-abiding citizens and hometown values). (cont.) "

jipsi wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:33 AM:

" To the Prof: it is attitudes exactly like yours that are allowing this passive acceptance", (bordering on APPROVAL??), that is making it EASY for this kind of activity to get a foothold here. I've lived in Cleveland's heart, years ago, and know the "difference" between "here and there", too. But, if anything, it makes me want to FIGHT the influx, NOT "laugh at it"!
It's becoming clear that the "gangsta" mindset is becoming nomadic, being carried via migrating inner city youth (sorry, that's what IT IS: the kids born and raised here are not at the root, the "out of towner/inner city refugees" are) to the smaller cities and towns. Even though their parents try hard to get them "out of the city", out of the gangs' reach, the youth wind up "nostalgic", BORED with the "cornfield town", and then the roaming, trouble-making "gangs" are born.(cont.)
"

justme wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:13 AM:

" Are you kidding me?? You mean you ppl live in Bloomington/Normal and say there isn't anything for these kids to do?? Put down your crack pipe!! There is plenty of things for these kids to do in these BIG towns!! Look at smaller town, they have nothing for kids to do like Fairbury, Forrest, Chatsworth, Strawn, Sibley, Piper City, Saunemin, Etc. Wake up!! Its time for parents to do their job and be a PARENT!!!!! "

jipsi wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:11 AM:

" So much for the liberal theory that gangs are caused by living in extreme poverty and hopelessness in dirty, crime-ridden inner-city streets...
Bloomington-Normal, can hardly be described as such.
(Nor can my relatively small community.)
The environment can have very little to do with the spawn of gangs: it's the PEOPLE, and CULTURE those people have artificially created, that stimulate and maintain gangs.
It is embedded in the pseudo-culture and those youth "that far into it" will take it with them wherever they go; like spreading a virus, they will send out feelers into a new community and bring into their fold any "wanna-be" kid they find, from 8 year olds and up.
Saying this is/was a natural evolution of Bloomington-Normal growth is hogwash.
It all depends what the growth is, as well as where they come from.

It was a "wanna-be" gang like these that terrorized the kids in my suburban area; they'd get off the "passing through" school bus into our neighborhood and steal bikes, start fights, roam aimlessly down the middle of the street in a group of six to a dozen.
We moved.
And they're here in our little 'burg as well now... "

Lurg86 wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:09 AM:

" To Original JD: I would like for you to list the attempts you are talking about as far as an alternative place for these kids to go. You say it has been tried? You are wrong as I have lived in Bloomington over 50 years and the only thing that has ever been done is some pool shooting at the Miller Park Pavilion many years ago. You are out of touch JD and if you think jailing parents are going to do any good you are out of your mind. Most of these kids have only one parent and most likely they are working two jobs or are in the judicial system already in one form or another. You need to think before you type JD and also check your facts. "

newdays wrote on Mar 30, 2008 7:38 AM:

" 1. More arrests need to be made instead of violations
2. Judges do NOT sentence harsh enough..Lincoln's Challenge is perfect option for some of these youth...Judges please review this program
3. Prosecutors do loose many of these cases as they do not prepare for court..ask the officer testifying, the landlord, the victim..
4. Landlords cannot receive an eviction on grounds of compliance in this county. Residents sign agreements for "Drug Free Housing" but it means nothing in the eyes of the court.
5. Residents sign agreements stating they are responsible for their family and guests criminal activity...just another tree went to waste in making the paper.
6. I have called "Child Abuse Hot Line" about youth 7 yrs and older running the property till 2-3 in the morning and I was told so what...
7. I spoke to council member who stated that she wanted a youth program started. I offered some info and willingness to work with program..no response.

Do you see what is happening...all talk......We set boundries as managers, police, youth leaders, city officials but there is no consequences to crossing our boundries. "

BOBO wrote on Mar 30, 2008 7:21 AM:

" When are these two towns going to build proper athletic facilities for the children
and put them in the right area. I have been asking the mayors and town managers for years. They seem to think these town provide the greatest facilities guess they never leave this area much except for condo trips. Good facilities where there are numerous fields for different sports is where parents and kids can meet and grow as a community. The way it is set up now people are divided and have to drive all over town in a day not much of a chance for people to get to know and help each other. These places are where the kids need to loiter. "

newdays wrote on Mar 30, 2008 7:18 AM:

" info on Orlando northside of street....116 units.....64 units are senior and or dissabled families or individuals.....the other 52 units contain less then