Pantagraph.com | News | Court statement: Birdshot attack gang-related retaliation

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

student12 wrote on Apr 20, 2008 9:39 AM:

" To shadow: Wow show some ignorance! I live only 3 blocks from the site of the shooting and let me tell you, there are a lot of good people in this neighborhood. as a matter of fact, there are about 3 nurses I know who live in this area. LOSERS? I don't think so! Maybe next time you need medical help, these losers should not help you because of your ignorance. Unfortunately, there are bad seeds all over this town. I have heard of a few bad seeds on the east side. so, give up your ignorance and understand that us people on the WEST side are not ALL BAD!!! "

Shadow wrote on Apr 18, 2008 7:45 AM:

" I wish we could fence in the west side like in Escape from New York. Let all the losers rot. "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 13, 2008 12:41 PM:

" to jipsi
why so people can convict the person in their own minds baised on a couple of tidbits of information? Then since they can also regognize them on the street. persecute them based on what they have been charged with? all of course before they actually go to court and guilt is determined? "

snarky wrote on Apr 13, 2008 10:02 AM:

" What difference does it make about how lethal the weapon was? People were shot at. Whether it was a gang or not, some one is accountable. Zero tolerance. "

normalguy wrote on Apr 11, 2008 7:12 AM:

" do you think if these kids never admitted it was gang retaliation that the cops would ever admit there are gangs in this town. rival gangs at that? "

jipsi wrote on Apr 10, 2008 12:46 AM:

" It's about time. I think if the Pantagraph PRINTED PHOTO"S (ie: MUGSHOTS) of every person arrested and charged with a crime (I didn't say 'guilty; I said "charged with'), some of these people might THINK TWICE before (and REFRAIN from) doing something "stupid' the next time (or, if innocent, being guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time!).
Also, there will be a lot less UNNECESSARY arguing over whether said persons were 'this race, that race' etc.
In the case of someone being sought by police, pictures are ALWAYS better than rough descriptions in helping citizens spot and report said "alleged" criminal...
"

dollarsncents wrote on Apr 9, 2008 3:25 PM:

" We the people of Bloomington Normal do not have a gang problom. This was an isolated incident. The Pantagraph once again has a done a perfect job wording this article. "

gad wrote on Apr 9, 2008 12:33 PM:

" don't get too torqued captain. newspaper people can't tell the difference between a fart and a whirlwind, let alone anything to do with a weapon. "

captain110 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:33 AM:

" PLEASE!!! Stop referring to this as a "birdshot" attack! This was an attack with a lethal weapon! A SHOTGUN! If you doubt my assertion, perhaps you would allow myself or someone else to shoot a SHOTGUN loaded with "birdshot" at you. Even the smallest pellet size load is lethal depending on the distance from the SHOTGUN to the target. I am baffled by the Pantagraphs' downplaying the violent nature of this incident. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:11 AM:

" The police never get enough credit: How would you like to be called upon to stop a car full of young hoodlums suspected of having deadly firearms? These restless natives are getting more brazen all the time, shooting at people in broad daylight. "

ezalb89 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:38 AM:

" its only going to get worse. two new gangs low life an 65. they arent exactly getting along right now. just a bunch of young idiots trying to cause trouble for fun. "

Crazy wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:22 AM:

" BHA are joke! Want to talk about vouchers......ask them for one. They give them out to friends and families so they pay not 1 dollar, all of their $ goes to Cadillac, BMWs, and Benzs with 10k rims. They could careless if the person is a sex offender, gang member with mile long rap sheet, or rapist. They only see $ signs!!!
Keep up the good work BHA. Give them a shout, Kim Holman-Short is the one in charge!!! "

wewest wrote on Apr 9, 2008 9:12 AM:

" You people want to blame the police all the time but you must remember there is only so much room in our jail and it is pretty full most of the time.If you are having a problem on your block call the police everyday until something happens,it worked for me now the police wave when they drive bye but you got to keep calling. "

floyd wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:55 AM:

" Would be interesting to see if the gun is on a list of stolen property and where it came from.
"

SoTrue wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:37 AM:

" I'm just so sick of it all - "

Lurg86 wrote on Apr 9, 2008 8:00 AM:

" Housing Security and ID badges for residents needed. All residents of these low income housing complexes are issued a picture ID that they are mandated to carry with them at all times. Have a security officer at each complex to enforce this mandate. If anyone is on the property without proper ID or accompanied by a person with a valid ID, they either leave or go to jail for trespassing. I have seen signs up at these places warning against tresspassing, yet no security to enforce the rules. This would cost about the same as the federal grant for Wesleyean to study why young people do foolish sexual things. "

B-N Banker wrote on Apr 9, 2008 7:53 AM:

" Looks like Bloomington Girl was wrong about this having "N-O-T-H-I-N-G" to do with gangs. Surprise, surprise!

When something like this happens, how are we to assume that it's not gang related? The only people you read about doing something so ridiculous are gang members or the little thuggish, wanna-be gangstas. Yes, I did say "gangstas". "

floyd wrote on Apr 9, 2008 6:58 AM:

" to G. Swardson. Don't blame the police entirely. Blame the McClean county judges who just happen to always give these guys leniency. When the judges start handing out real stiff sentences to these blight on society trash things won't change. It'll take everyone to step up and the police and judicial system has to take the lead. Remember an elderly gentleman was beat to death in the parking lot of a grocery store shortly after a new apartment complex was built several years ago. The store went belly up after that and that area is now not someplace you want to be where before it was very quiet and safe. "

BigBrother wrote on Apr 8, 2008 10:52 PM:

" The Mayor ,city council, housing authority, HUD, DCFS, and police need to start enforcing ALL the rules and laws that are there to protect innocent citizens. It starts with evicting the criminals that should not be living in our subsidised housing. Looking the other direction has gone on long enough. An audit of who is authorized and who is actually "staying" at these residences is in order. Why do the law abiding citizens have to live in fear because the people entrusted with managing these areas will not do their jobs? If they are not in compliance evict them. "

Paladin wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:03 PM:

" ...you don't "live" at the property (as in, being on the lease), you "stay" at the property (as in, it's under someone else's name, someone you can manipulate or coerce). See how it works? "

LDT wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:46 PM:

" Another thing I forgot to mention. I thought that people with felonies couldnt live on housing property....
I know that I recently came across the names of several people who live in those apartments *cough* this article *cough* and several of those people had felonies, or at least numerous arrests. FYI: The McLean County public access site is great for looking up the criminal & traffic records of people in town.

One additionalfact that I have always been fascinated by is that the vast majority of violent crime victims have criminal histories themselves. Typically, violent acts are not as random as many believe. "

LDT wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:37 PM:

" I just moved from within a block of this location within the last 2 months. I used to see all of the people over there and wonder how in the world half of them even are able to live there. Half of them looked like felons. There would be fights involving literally 50+ kids that cops would come and try to break up. Id hear them out hootin and hollerin at 2-3 in the morning. It was truly interesting. Of course, there were a few that I had an opportunity to meet. They seemed like ordinary folks trying to get by. On the other hand though, I also saw RAC trucks there delivering big screens on several occasions. I saw a big screen on the curb for trash pickup once. I certainly dont understand how someone can afford a big screen from rent a center and then have to claim that they need assistance. All in all, living over there was a unique experience I guess. "

G. Swardson wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:21 PM:

" If the police keep shoving this kind of stuff to the side and will not bust all of these drug dealers and gang bangers....citizens will start taking it into their own hands to make their neighborhoods safe.....when that begins to happen and whatever steps those people begin to take lethal and non lethal just remember that the public held the police in their trust and from what it sounds like have been let down time and again so whatever happens will happen. "

howard50 wrote on Apr 8, 2008 4:11 PM:

" FOLK'S, what's happening is, "The reprocussions of allowing folks to live FREE! 99.9% of the time, it's happening where folks LIVE who rides the system and don't contribute anything too it resides. WHAT THE HELL, it's free, they don't $pay for anything, plus, the trouble makers are falling from tree's who don't do anything in life but maintain eligibity to received SOMETHING for nothing! 97 1/2% of the time it's grandmother's, to baby's mothers HARBORING, grandson's, son's or babies daddy's with mad idiol time on their hands. When housing start's holding the PERSON who's name is on the leases responsible, for harboring criminal's or being accessories to one & do it's job (Zero Tolerance), those area's would be crime/thug/drug free! Someday females will realize, "Something from Nothing Leaves NOTHING." Those guy's young & old can do whatever! Why? They don't have any responsiblities, they are living SCOTT FREE! Being KEPT and UPHELD in every wrong they do. You think things are happening now? Just wait until the warm weather sticks! Mclean's finest you better build more jail or purchase more cages! YOU'LL NEED THEM!!! "

howard50 wrote on Apr 8, 2008 3:25 PM:

" FOLK'S what is happening here is called, "Monkey See, Monkey Do," please don't call it racisim based on the wor "

Country Girl wrote on Apr 8, 2008 2:32 PM:

" Birdshot and pellets can kill It's not as likely. I got deer slugs and 00 for my 12 guage so I will stop anyone. "

ONLY IN AMERICA wrote on Apr 8, 2008 1:34 PM:

" Welcome to the hood- A 17 year old isn't a boy he's an adult. Maybe someone was disrespected at the crib by someone elses baby's daddy and he was takin care of business... THE DUMBING OF AMERICA CONTINUES DAILY -
FUTURE ILLINOIS DOC INMATES "

cats55ire wrote on Apr 8, 2008 1:05 PM:

" PLS. DON'T BLAME THE POLICE OFFICERS!

BLOOMINGTON-NORMAL IS BEING INFESTED WITH IDIOTIC MORONS!

"

Missy wrote on Apr 8, 2008 12:48 PM:

" Birdshot can be fatal !!! In 1980 my brother-in-law died of being shot with birdshot. "

Townie here... wrote on Apr 8, 2008 12:38 PM:

" What's it matter if it was gang related or not? It's still a violent act either way.... I think the question should be, who goes around and shoots people in the face with pellet guns...??? What would trigger that action?

"

zs wrote on Apr 8, 2008 11:50 AM:

" Bloomington Girl seems to know quite a bit. From 90% of the 'outsiders' looking in, it sounds like gang activity. "

sigh wrote on Apr 8, 2008 9:49 AM:

" re: "deanwormer" Of course anything can be fatal, you can kill someone with a pellet gun. Birdshot is vastly underpowered and not an adequete round if you ever plan to defend yourself from someone. Even at close range it will not penetrate bone or very much tissue to get to vital areas so it will not stop someone determined to do you harm (esp if they are on drugs) unless you manage a very lucky shot. These people are very fortunate that the idiots who fired the shotgun at them were stupid enough to load it with birdshot. Since I cannot post web links here, go to google and search for some articles written on home defense and birdshot. There is a really good write up involving the "Box of truth" a website where a guy uses ballistic gelatin and sheets of drywall to measure round penetration and effectiveness. I am really making an issue of this because I don't want a good person to die some day because they were trying to protect themselves with an inadequate round "

normalguy wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:37 AM:

" im confused. why is the housing dept. called and not the police when crimes occur? I realize the outcome would be the same in that nothing would be done, but why blame housing when its our lazy/scared cops. "

westsider wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:28 AM:

" i agree with big brother. but sadly nothing is going to happen. the city and county government are only interested in helping the developers. build 3000 more apartment complexes on every inch of ground and if you don't believe me just drive around the twin cities.these thugs thrive in these places.your safety your childrens safety mean nothing to the city officials that have open arms to bring these thugs to bloomington normal.every apartment complex in the twin cities is full of imported thugs thanks to the developers and the governments that allowed this to happen.and lets not forget the slum lords the city does nothing about.the city officials in this town are gutless and the taxpayers are going to pay the price. "

BigBrother wrote on Apr 7, 2008 9:29 PM:

" This attack occured in Steve Purcells ward. send him an e-mail to call on the council to request an investigation into why the housing authority is doing nothing to assist the citizens living in and neighboring the housing area to stop this criminal activity. There is nothing wrong with tax paying citizens expecting some simblance of law and order in housing paid for by our taxes. Start evicting the criminals and their families if they can not obey the rules and laws. It will not take many evictions before the parents of these hoodlums will take heed. We want to help our families in need, but they need to accept responsibility for their actions too. We have the tools, we just need the strength to use them. "

imdawnjed wrote on Apr 7, 2008 7:37 PM:

" To Bloomington Girl:
sounds like you know something maybe you should be telling the police since you know for sure it had NOTHING to do with gangs. I mean since your so certain and all, you must know what happened. right??? "

Annie Oakley wrote on Apr 7, 2008 6:38 PM:

" i am not surprised. i use to live around these areas. if one of the housing people even witness a crime they won't call the police. this is one of the reasons the pd can't do nothing. because everyone will say, i didn't see anything! i live just north west of the area and last summer we had a pizza delivery guy robbed i think 2 times if not 3. the ONLY thing that will fix this problem is to get a neighborhood watch program going. if you have that great, if not, get one. another option is do have what is called a radio alert program. one person sits at home with a home based radio near a phone. others patrol the area with radios to contact the base. it worked great in military housing. "

Bloomington Girl wrote on Apr 7, 2008 5:56 PM:

" LMAO on the fact this was "gang related" that is too funny. I don't believe it for a second. I live in B-N very close to where this took place as a matter of fact and this had nothing i repeat N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with gangs.... "

floyd wrote on Apr 7, 2008 5:34 PM:

" Hey Sometimes! Are you aware that the velocity of some pellet guns are close to or even equal to those of regular guns and can be deadly! If you point even a pellet gun at someone and shoot them you need to be charged just as if it were any gun. "

mommy95 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 5:19 PM:

" To BigBrother
Your right the Housing does nothing. And all of us have complained many times to them. our Kids can't even go over and play in the play ground that the City of Bloomington takes care of. I wish they would just tear them down. Let us have our neighborhood back. If your missing a bike chances are you'll find it over there. We have many times. Plus the parents over there don't always know where their kids are most times. They will run around all hours of the night. "

deanwormer wrote on Apr 7, 2008 5:01 PM:

" to sigh: you better go back and check your bird shot. fired at close range it will kill a human simply by the concentrated blast pattern. depending on the size of the shot, up to 15-20 yds, small shot can still be fatal. "

mother of 2 angels wrote on Apr 7, 2008 4:56 PM:

" We lived on the West side for years and when it started to get bad we moved. There were several times the police were called and they did nothing. One boy who was 9 took a baseball bat and sat on our property and threatened to hit my husband with it. When the police showed - the boy still had the bat and they did nothing.. They told us " if we take he will go to juvenille hall for a few hours and then released," "nothing will happen since he is a minor." The problem is the parents let thier choldren run the streets and today the children know what they will and won't get in trouble about. It is a sad world today and only the people can make it better by sticking too what is thiers and what is right...... "

BigBrother wrote on Apr 7, 2008 4:25 PM:

" From the comments made on this string I can see that most people feel the Bloomington Housing Authority is doing nothing when reports of criminal activity are being reported to them. I suggest the City Council and Mayor call for an investigation into the repeated criminal activity emminating from our subsidised housing areas. The rules governing subsidised housing are there to protect the neighbors and those living in these housing units. There are sanctions for those that abuse the rules and break the law. One of which is revoking their subsidy and benifits. Its time the rules were enforced. Spare no sad story of woe for those that allow their teenagers to terrorize these neighborhoods. You take away their subsidy and evict them. Maybe after a few are held accountable and evicted the parents of these juviniles will take notice and put an end to this foolishness. "

John Galt wrote on Apr 7, 2008 4:20 PM:

" The VAST majority of crime like this is gang related. Gangs primary purpose is to sell drugs.

If we as a community want to live in a safe community, stop buying drugs. Make sure that your kids aren't using!

If there is no demand, the gangs will leave. They aren't fighting because they enjoy fighting, they are fighting to gain market share! The government will never solve this problem, it is up to us. Tell them that we don't want what they are selling! If you have a friend who uses drugs, let them know that they are providing the financing for crimes such as this.
"

anchor wrote on Apr 7, 2008 3:53 PM:

" To - Mommy...seems like the cops did a pretty good job in this case, eh? "

clarkbar wrote on Apr 7, 2008 3:53 PM:

" here we go, more violence. When is enough, enough? We've created this mess, no one respects anyone, not even themselves. Low self esteem on the part of the thugs or what? Did they just do it for the thrill? WHAT!!!!!!????????? "

Sigh wrote on Apr 7, 2008 3:52 PM:

" re:"Country Boy" I'm going to have to disagree with you. Birdshot does have hundreds of little pellets but it is one of the least lethal things, short of rubber pellets, that you can use in a shotgun. Even a close range blast will typically only cause a lot of small flesh wounds because the little pellets lack penetrating power - they are designed to kill birds after all (Do not load a home defense shotgun with this stuff, it will most likely fail and you are only putting yourself in danger by doing so). Of course this doesn't excuse this behavior and these guys should be held up on attempted murder charges. Luckily, for everyone involved, these thugs were too stupid to be using buckshot or slugs. "

mommy95 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 3:25 PM:

" The cops just don't care there are times we call and call for all the fights and drug sales but the cops take forever to get here and they are done with what they are doing. But i do have to say when the shots happen that was the 1st they were here that fast. All I want is a safe place to raise my kids and beable to let them walk to friends a few blocks away but, You can't even do that. The paper is not going to say if it was gang related. But It was believe me if you seen and hear what we do. Plus The shots are related to the fight that happen a short time before because some of the same people were there when it all came down. "

muttonhead31 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 2:56 PM:

" maybe a baby-daddy stay around just once and install a little discipline. That is the root of all society,and it is being abused to epic proportions. "

midnight6 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 2:45 PM:

" to sometimes i live in this area do you if you don't who are you to say that it wasn't gang related. well let me tell you something quit being so naive and wake up it was gang related. to mommy95 i know where you are coming from i live in the area and call the housing everytime something happens that is illegal and all the other crap that goes around here but they don't do nothing i have told them and told them they still just push it aside and don't do anything about it. "

thero wrote on Apr 7, 2008 2:09 PM:

" To Sometimes: "No way! I am not naive either, just not ignorant! " ... You sure about that?!? LMAO
"

Sometimes wrote on Apr 7, 2008 2:04 PM:

" My fault, i misunderstood. I thought it was a pellet gun. SORRY! But I still do not thing it was gang related! "

pontiac75 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:51 PM:

" I'm still trying to figure out how she was injured after she was hit with the pellets. Does anyone know? Was she then hit by a car? Slapped across the face? "

Country Boy wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:36 PM:

" hey Sometimes, where does it say a pellet gun? its says shotgun loaded with birdshot. There is a huge difference between a pellet gun and a shotgun. It says pellets because thats what birshot is, about 200+ lead pellets loaded into a shotgun shell and its extremely lethal, especially at close range. "

Newshound wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:35 PM:

" I guess "Sometimes" reads the articles and sometimes he dont....lol. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:31 PM:

" HEY SOMETIMES:

Learn to read the ladies were shot at with a shotgun, loaded with bird PELLET. BIRD PELLET is the type of shell used. If you don't think it's so bad being shot with a shotgun loaded with bird pellet, why don't you try it on yourself? "

mommy95 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:14 PM:

" part 2- I'm glad the ladies are okay and Thank God the 1 year old didn't get hurt. or even any of the other kids at the park. All I want is our area to be SAFE and crime free but. I really don't think it will tell the city does something with the housing. All I know is I can't wait, tell we move. But we really shouldn't have to be the ones that have to move we are the taxe payers and own our home. Plus we pay for the housing so we should have the right to say who gets to live there and who doesn't. Better yet the people living there take charge and clean you area up and make it safe for your own kids. Report the crime or even clean yourself up. so We all can have a SAFE and clean area. It really starts with you. Because it's not summer yet and look what we have had already so whats to come. "

Sometimes wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:14 PM:

" Oh yea you know those big rough gangsta's walking around with the pellet guns. Watch out!! Now that's a good one! Please! Not every act of violence is gang related. Here is your perfect example! You really think a gang ordered these people to shoot somebody... with a pellet gun? No way! How about we let the police do their job, and we do ours....But seriously...this was a cruel cruel thing to do and these people need to be severely punished. This could have ended up as a VERY bad situation. But will I blame it on gangs? No way! Will I blame every act of voilence in this town on gangs? No way! I am not naive either, just not ignorant! "

mommy95 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 1:08 PM:

" Okay, I live right in this area and I heard the 3 shots, The worst thing there is a park right there and kids were out playing. We were out with ours. I want to say it was all over a fight that broke out in the street maybe an hour before the shooting. Does it make you more of a man to get a gun when you get in a fight. Instead of being the better person. and let it slide. All I can really say is that I want my home sold and get out of here. I've lived here now 8 years and the violence and drugs have gotten bad. The Housing doesn't care who they move in anymore and the people that live there don't care. They are the ones that have made our area bad. I'm not saying all the people there are bad, but for the most part they are. The drugs and violence we have coming out of there will make you pissed off. The city just needs to get rid of the housing and make it a big park where my kids could go over and play and feel safe "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Apr 7, 2008 12:47 PM:

" B-N, how does it feel to be in the process of becoming another suburb of Chicago? Maybe we should start calling ourselves downstate Harvey... "

muttonhead31 wrote on Apr 7, 2008 12:16 PM:

" gangsta-thug wannabies. The violence is here and with this rise to be a gangsta so impotant,it ain't going nowhere. Might as well be livin in a war zone "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Apr 7, 2008 11:54 AM:

" I agree JimmyChooGirl, but when will the connections between these outbreaks of violence and the outbreak of gang graffiti be made? After a "higher up" in one of the local gangs was released from prison last summer is the same time period this gangs tags started appearing on everything, then the violence started, but our police dept is either to afraid or to "Barney Fife-ish' to make the connection. "

D&A fan wrote on Apr 7, 2008 11:37 AM:

" I couldn't have said it better myself! "

JimmyChooGirl wrote on Apr 7, 2008 10:53 AM:

" Wow! This town has seen so much violence in the past month or so. Thank God that one of those bird pellots didn't shoot one of their eyes out or come close to the baby. If you want to go shoot someone, shoot your self! Leave innocent people alone!!! "

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