Pantagraph.com | Letters | Who's protecting those in shadow of turbines?

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

hilldweller wrote on Apr 18, 2008 12:56 PM:

" You sound a bit like chicken little when you say we need more capacity. Don't panic! If you look at the PJM queue you will see that more generation capacity is planned for nuke, gas, coal, methane, biomass and not just for wind. Wind is not an alternative. It is a useless appendage to reliable sources of electricity and waste of money. Plugging in electric vehicles would be a good use for the excess capacity that is generated every night of the year in Illinois. There is no reason to believe that demand from electric vehicles will require more generation capacity first of all because most people will continue to drive conventional vehicles. Second of all the electric vehicles will most likely be plugged or recharged at night.
I never said the electricity from Twin Groves is going to Chicago. Most of Twin Grove's capacity is sold to the country's #1 wholesaler power, Constellation Energy Commodities Group. When Ameren needs to get power from outside their own generation plants Constellation will be the wholesale provider. Check the RFP announcement on the ICC website. "

sandy wrote on Apr 16, 2008 12:19 PM:

" sorry hilldweller but apparently you are unaware of the revolution coming to the automobile. Plug-in hybrids (you plug your car in for a charge each night) will be here within 2 years...they are on the drawing boards now and they are already available from a few small auto companies like Tesla...google plug-in hybrids and you'll see what I mean. Where's that electricity going to come from? Carl and many others don't want to deal with the reality that more electricity is needed. Plus you are decieved when you state the power is sold to Chicago. The power might be paid for by Commonwealh Edison based in Chicago, but the power itself is simply put into the electrical grid. Where the power is actually used depends on where it's needed...the power might be diverted to any state in the union where a power shortfall is detected. "

hilldweller wrote on Apr 16, 2008 9:38 AM:

" Sandy, this will have no effect on energy independence. It's a massive symbolic gesture. That's all. Our dependence on foreign oil is not tied to electricity.
The oil dependence problem lies in energy for transportation but most people aren't asking, "How many miles did these eggs travel to get to my table?" They aren't demanding that their homeowners association allow them to erect clothes lines and organize car pools. They aren't turning off the TV and air conditioners during peak demand times. Instead they want people to sacrifice their dreams and their peace and quiet while denying their own selfish contributions the problem. "

sandy wrote on Apr 15, 2008 9:22 PM:

" Why is it that every time energy prices skyrocket (like now), people get serious about conservation and alternative forms of energy...then the price goes down and all is forgotten. How many times since the gas shortages of the 70s have we screamed only to forget all about it later. If the US would have begun seeking energy independance back then, we wouldn't be in the mess were in now. So along comes the technology to produce clean electricity without burning any fossil fuels...and the whiners like Carl begin. Guess what folks, we can't bury our heads in the sand anymore and pretend the problem will go away...we've been doing this over and over and over again since the 70s. Some day, it will be our last chance...then counties that produce energy (Like Saudi Arabia) and manufacturing (like China) will own us...we'll be reduced to a 3rd rate power. Gaining energy independence will create millions of jobs and keep us first. "

brsc wrote on Apr 15, 2008 8:00 PM:

" Carl you are so right in your comments. Wind Farms are a sham. I only wish I had a million dollars to invest in the tax and political scheme that it is...what a gold mine! I'd invest and get the heck outta McLean Cnty since it will soon be covered by the turbines. Course of little benefit to the locals citizens. This community would far more benefit from a nuclear plant than these pathetic windfarms. "

hilldweller wrote on Apr 15, 2008 7:43 PM:

" To tbone67. You are to be commended for being willing rto sacrifice you rural peace and quiet and enjoyment for the benefit of someone else. Hopefully there are a lot more like you who heroes who wil buy the homes of people who will seek a place more like the one they are about to lose. I wouldn't count on any benefit to the planet but it's a nice idea. Also, don't give too much credit to the county. They didn't plan for this. The developers arrived because the highlines and the ridges are already in place. The developers provided the WECS ordinance and Jeanne Rapp's flock said "baaaa". They will do the same for the next corporate interest wanting to exploit our open spaces, water, air and other resources. Without a plan for economic development that's what you get. Did you think about how the next generation will deal with the rusting machines and the removal of the concrete and sound of bearings on steel? What if you're wrong about this? Think about what Carl is saying. Who will protect YOU? "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 6:12 PM:

" hey fachina that was funny!
btw now do you understand why i call myself middle of the road dude? "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 6:10 PM:

" sorry got had by spell check. it had not been maintained since the 50's "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 5:55 PM:

" you are mistaken hilldweller. Jacobson wind generators have been around since at least the 20's and wind-co at about the same time. they were sold primarily in the western plains states I personally have seen one that had not been maintained since the 20's that still turned, produced electricity in the 80's it was not in use but the wires coming from the generator still showed 36 volts ( that was the voltage of those systems)
BTW they used storage battery's that looked like mason jars 4 feet tall so yes those farms still had power even when the wind didn't blow "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 5:41 PM:

" noot do you really think that the peaker plants that have been built use NO power when they are not in operation? and btw the one in gibson city has not ran more than 10 days in the YEARS it has been there. yet the windmills near my home only stop when there is lightning within 60 miles. on the calmest days many are still producing power. see the wind at ground level is not the same as up in the air. once you get above 150 or 200 feet it is very rare for the wind to not be blowing.
what you work for big oil? is that your real problem with them? "

tbone67 wrote on Apr 15, 2008 4:04 PM:

" BTW, Fachna I just love your posts. "

tbone67 wrote on Apr 15, 2008 4:02 PM:

" Hey Noot! What sources are you quoting with your grand statements? Are these based on fact or just your worldly observations? I'd love to see some "fact" in your responses as well! One fact I can tell you is this. I WILL live in the shadow of one of these turbines (No I don't own the ground it's going to be on, so I won't get any money from it) and I have absolutely no problem with it. I am actually proud that the county has something environmentally positive to consider for a change. I would be proud to be known as a county that is doing something proactive in attempting to free ourselves from non-renewable energy sources, versus burning up all our oil and coal or producing nuclear wastes that we can't get rid of. You people need to think of the generations to come, not just for ourselves in the here and now. As for you and those (Carl? Are you listening?) who think Livingston County is the armpit of Illinois I have only one thing left to say - See 'ya!! "

The Irascible Fachna wrote on Apr 15, 2008 3:17 PM:

" On a really windy day, they will pluck you from the ground, suck you into their whirling blades, and chop you into tiny gobbets of gore. Your estate will be billed for any decrease in power generation. "

hilldweller wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:51 PM:

" Before the Rural Electrification Act we pumped water and stored it in a cystern. Electricity was produced by the Delco plant which ran on fuel. When the wind wasn't blowing we used the hand pump as BACKUP. Your statement, "every mega watt produced by wind is a mega watt that does not have to be produced with fossil fuel " is simply untrue. Customers pruchase electricty in kilowatt HOURS as required not as delivered. Twin Groves Production capacity has been sold to Constellation Energy, a wholesaler of electricity. Their coal and gas plants are out east. They will sell the RECs to Com Ed and Ameren, not the Kw Hours. The if you would check the facts you would know wind energy destabilizes the grid. New nuke and coal capacity will not impact grid reliability. "

MRS. wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:43 PM:

" I don't own land these will be on but we have to do something. I have been to California and seen them' 100's of them to be exact. The only problem I see is it isn't a good idea to look at them when you are driving, they make you dizzy. I laughed at my husband when he wanted to put a working windmill on our property. I said it would be ugly. Well, I'll take ugly over cold any day. "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:14 PM:

" rural areas used wind power both to pump water and generate electricity long before the Rural Electrification Act. they were viaible then they are viable now
You imply that the electricity they are producing now is not real.
The grid is and was behind compared to the development that has gone on all over the nation, that not the winds fault. every mega watt produced by wind is a mega watt that does not have to be produced with fossil fuel
if they add the new reactor at clinton that will do nothing to improve the reliability of the grid either. nor does building a peaker plant. only improving the grids infrastructure will do that. when the wind blows the gas and coal plants can reduce their output "

good ol boy wrote on Apr 15, 2008 1:08 PM:

" First in line, Get real! These turbines are up and running in Paw Paw,IL. ( mendota as you put it ) Tiskilwa, IL., and Wyoming, IL. right now. It sounds like they didn't want to put one on your ground and you got sour grapes. The people I know who have them around their places are not troubled by them and are enjoying the money they get for having them. Not to mention if they help make even a little clean energy is that not a good thing? "

hilldweller wrote on Apr 15, 2008 12:35 PM:

" To MOTR. Peaker plants are the 2nd best backup source of power for wind next to hydro because they can easily be fired up when the wind stops. Right now the number of turbines we have in Illinois are having virtually no impact on the reliability of the grid or the supply of electricity. Except that beginning in Jan 2007 new charges appeared on your electric bills for "delivery" "fuel flexibility" or some other euphamistic term for transmission upgrades. I figure our household paid about $300 for it last year. If wind power proliferates as prescribed the cost for transmission upgrades will be staggering. The utilities are required to submit facilities studies years in advance to plan for new generation capacity. One has only to check out the MISO and PJM queues online. Those costs will be transfered to consumers if there are "enough of them in enough areas" as you say. "

Noot wrote on Apr 15, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Everything Carl states in his letter is accurate, yet none of the "comments" dare address the facts. Wind energy is a sham, but since there's money to be made (by the energy companies) and votes to be gained (by the politicians) the truth takes a back seat.

Wind turbines take more energy to construct and operate (they draw power whether the blades are turning or not) than they will likely ever produce. Wind energy will never replace conventional energy sources because the wind is simply too unreliable. And those European countries with all those wind turbines? Many are now realizing wind energy is NOT the answer and are scaling back on, if not completely eliminating, wind farm construction.

It's easy to dismiss someone's concerns when the issue doesn't affect you personally, yet, how many of you would be willing to live in the shadow of a 500 tower and not have a say in the matter?

Livingston county is becoming the armpit of Illinois. The second largest landfill in the U.S. is located there and if all these wind turbines (close to 1,000) are built who, in their right mind, would choose to move there? "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 12:14 PM:

" BS hilldweller
when we have enough of them in enough areas the peakers will not have to run "

hilldweller wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:36 AM:

" First of all if you want a wind turbine on your land you may purchase one but it is expensive. Small wind generators might be a permitted use in your neighborhood. Second of all the peaker plants only run when demand "peaks" because it is the most expensive type of power. They sit idle most of the time. If wind proliferates the peaker plants will need to run more often in order to provide reliability for customers as the weather fronts pass through. In order to meet the renewable portfolio standard of 2% in 2008 utilities will be purchasing Renewable Energy CERTIFICTES because wind energy itself does not meet the ICC's requirement of being cost-effective. I say let this FAD pass and preserve the countryside. "

T wrote on Apr 15, 2008 10:08 AM:

" CArl go home and stick your head in the sand "

Wat Tyler wrote on Apr 15, 2008 9:02 AM:

" Yet another spurious argument against wind turbines. Don't put them in because the land belongs to an absentee landlord. Carl is technically correct about no thermal plants being decommissioned, but he misses the point. While these wind turrbines are operating, the thermal units back down and that reduces the amount of toxic fumes, particulate and greenhouse gases that are deposited in the atmosphere and eventually in our lings. "

hardwarehank wrote on Apr 15, 2008 8:59 AM:

" Just another big city transplant miffed that their "country life" is being disturbed. Got news for you folks, you want "country life" ya'll better get further south of here to find it. The urban sprawl is hot on your tails. (Plus all of us hometowners aren't thrilled you're bringing it down to us either.) "

Thoughts a Million wrote on Apr 15, 2008 8:38 AM:

" These "Edsels" have been in Europe for decades. And I remember reading that the same thing was said 100 years ago regarding the installation of telephone poles for electricity and phone serve. "

farmersdaught13 wrote on Apr 15, 2008 7:58 AM:

" From Chicago are ya Carl? "

hardwarehank wrote on Apr 15, 2008 7:18 AM:

" Been around central Illinois much lately Carl? There's several of these "Edsels" up and running and generating clean energy. Livingston County would not even be close to the "first in line". "

Pinko Commie wrote on Apr 15, 2008 6:52 AM:

" Waaaah. How about we put a coal plant in your back yard then? "

middle of the road wrote on Apr 15, 2008 6:49 AM:

" I do not own land that a wind turbine sits on, Yet on an average day I can see approximately 20 million watts being produced without ANY pollution. If you live in B-N you can see the pollution from the peaker plant in Gibson city if it is in operation.
there is also no spent fuel that has to be stored for over 100,000 years. or even used safety clothing and tools that have to be stored for something like 5000 years. You will quickly get used to the turbines just as your parents or grandparents got used to the ghastly sight of power poles running along side the road. and civil defense towers that sprang up in the forty's and fifty's
Look at the bright side . At least they make poor terrorist targets unlike nuke plants. and the air down wind is still safe to breath unlike coal and gas fired plants
once they are built they do not require ANY fuel. if there is a downside to that please tell me what it is! For once progress really is progress and not one step forward then two steps back. "

ktlin wrote on Apr 15, 2008 6:39 AM:

" I think they look kind of nice. One problem we have in America is that we want to use the electricity and would never dream of not using it, yet we do not want to look at the machinery that creates it. This is the reason we are dependent on foreign oil and other products that we use heavily. We don't care what their countries look like as long as we have the electricity or other fuel. And when that happens we also do not care what those foreign governments do with all our money we give them. I would love to have a turbine in my yard supplying my electricity and I would love to have oil wells all over my property. And I would love to have turbines supplying our electricity in Bloomington instead of a nuclear power plant. "

gassed off! wrote on Apr 15, 2008 5:43 AM:

" They can put one in my yard as I long as I can hook up to it!! "

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