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Pressure from all sides for gay, lesbian students deciding to come out
This story reported by students from county Diversity Project
By Steven Davis, Manish Mandava and Madison Roberts
McLean County Diversity Project
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BLOOMINGTON -- Robin Folks knows the risks children take by disclosing their sexual orientation to other students at school. “My daughter was called names, cursed at, tripped and had her hair pulled” at a school in Tennessee before moving to McLean County, said Folks. | ABOUT THE DIVERSITY PROJECT: Student reporters, real stories | BUSINESSES: State Farm finds profit in diversity | FAITH: Church reactions to gays vary | SCHOOLS: Forum offers resources

Folks organized a support group for students who are lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender in Tennessee, and she now supervises the Open Door Youth Center in downtown Bloomington, a meeting place for LGBT students here. 

“It is wrong for kids to lock themselves up in the closet,” said Folks.

But for many students, there are issues that must be considered before they make such a personal disclosure. What are the risks for being yourself when you are LGBT, they wonder? 

For Mathew Clark, the risks of being a young gay student meant physical abuse by his peers starting in fourth grade.

“I got harassed, beaten up, pushed around and called all kinds of slurs. They would say all sorts of horrible things for the wrong reasons,” said Clark, now a student at Parkside Junior High School in Normal. 

Jordan Becker was in junior high when her sexual orientation became an issue. Her life changed dramatically when other students found out she was a lesbian. She went from focusing on friends and fun, to trying to commit suicide at school.

Pressure is on

Clark, Becker and others interviewed by students from The McLean County Diversity Project said they felt pressure from several directions in making their decision to live openly as an LGBT person. The pressures come from different sources — family, church and peers. Some students asked to remain anonymous because they fear harassment at school; others have not told their families that they are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

Chelsie Wilber, a freshman at Normal Community West High School, first shared information about her sexual orientation with her best friend. The friend’s positive reaction gave Wilber the confidence to tell other people, including her family.

Wilber said she is grateful her fears were unfounded. “I was most afraid to tell my parents because I was afraid that they wouldn’t approve and they would try to change me.”

Wilber didn’t have the same response at school. She recalls the beginning of the current school year when her peers called her derogatory terms or gave her dirty looks. Wilber said she ignored the harassment and things have improved.

Things don’t get better for students at every school, where insulting remarks in the hallways can be a part of everyday life.

“There’s not a day that goes by when I have not heard the word ‘faggot,’ ” said a junior at Normal Community High School, adding walking away from such comments is easier than standing up for your beliefs.

“I don’t want the attention or to create a scene. It’s too much of a hassle. I hate it, but I’d rather put up with it than deal with it,” he said.

Becker has no regrets about the hard times she endured.

“It’s not easy coming out at the age of 14, but I don’t regret what I went through,” she said.

Becker started the Gay Straight Student Alliance at Normal West. Being open about sexual orientation has made her a stronger person, she said, and helped the school district acknowledge that issues exist involving LGBT students.

Leaving Unit 5 will be hard for Becker, who said she feels accepted by the students and faculty at the school.

“I’m not looking forward to leaving high school. It’s been one of the best experiences of my life,” she said.

Waiting to tell

It wasn’t as easy for the Tom Stark family, who struggled to accept the news that he was gay, a disclosure he made after going to college.

The oldest of six children from a family in Downs, Stark said he knew it would not be easy to discuss the sensitive issue with his close-knit, religious family.

Stark, now 28, said most of his family has overcome their reservations and come to realize that he is still the same person.

“There is always the one person, though, that has to throw a wrench in things to prevent you from saying, ‘Everyone was OK with it,’ and I have experienced that. One aunt told me that I needed to make sure that I wasn’t around children so that I wouldn’t be tempted to do things with them. She has since taken that comment back. Again, she just needed to understand that gay does not equal pedophile,” said Stark. 

Stark’s family also had difficulties accepting his relationship with a partner.

“My parents initially stated that they would never meet someone that I was dating. I knew that this was the shock of telling them.” Stark said his family’s attitude was hurtful, but “I had to understand where the comment was coming from. Then I had to do what I could to help my parents work through it.”

When Stark and his partner had a commitment ceremony, his siblings attended, but his parents did not. Later on, his mother attended the reception.

Stark’s only sister, Chelsea, said, “Our parents say that they only see George (his partner) as Tom’s roommate and won’t see them as a couple. But we all get him gifts for Christmas and celebrate his birthday. He’s just part of the family.”

One student at West, who asked to remain anonymous, said she is planning to wait until she goes off to college to tell her parents.

“Both my parents are strongly religious. They believe that being a homosexual is a sin. I’m still a Christian, but I have different ideas,” she said.

Finding support

Some parents accept their child’s orientation but worry about safety at school and other places.

The mother of an NCHS freshman, who asked not to be identified, said her family is comfortable with her son being gay, but she has concerns about him making a widespread disclosure. Headlines about violence against gay students cannot be overlooked, she said.

Her son finds support through the school’s Gay Straight Student Alliance. “The GSA has been great. When I came out in December, I felt alone,” said the student.

More activities for LGBT students can help them feel less alone — like the recent Alternative Prom held at the Unitarian Church in Bloomington.

Educators also must step in when discriminatory remarks are made by students and be aware of insulting language, said District 87 teacher Suzie Hutton.

“Anti-gay bullying is bullying,” said Hutton.

Deborah Curtis, Dean of the College of Education at Illinois State University, said students who do not agree with LGBT views have a right to express their opinions “as long as they do it a way that’s not offensive or creates discrimination.”

Stark just attended his 10-year high school reunion with his partner. He said that everyone was very open and accepting of their relationship.

Stark said that he has a close relationship with many of his friends. “It was just one more thing they got to know about me. They saw it as an additional trait, like the color of my eyes. It doesn’t define me as a person, and it isn’t who I am. It is just another part of me.”



LGBT defined



The following are definitions commonly used to explain the acronym LGBT:

• Lesbian refers to women who are homosexual, attracted to other women.

• Gay, or homosexual, refers to people whose sexual or romantic feelings are mostly for the same gender.

• Bisexual refers to people whose sexual or romantic feelings are for both genders.

• Transgender refers to someone whose gender identity or expression differs from conventional expectations for their physical sex. Transgender people may be straight, gay, lesbian or bisexual.

SOURCE: Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG)



Editor’s note



For several months, The Pantagraph and the McLean County Diversity Project have been involved in a joint project exploring the experiences of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students.

Project members Madison Roberts, a student at Tri-Valley High School in Downs, Steven Davis from Normal Community West High School and Manish Mandava, a student at Normal Community High School, worked with Pantagraph reporter Edith Brady-Lunny. The students interviewed LGBT students and parents and attended a forum sponsored by the Central Illinois Safe Schools Alliance. They also conducted research into challenges facing LGBT students.

The students worked together to write the accompanying story on the consequences of revealing one’s sexual orientation. Related stories in today’s Money and Values sections address variations of that theme.

Diversity Project director Jeff Schwartz encourages students to explore and accept the differences among people. Students are required to complete individual and group projects to qualify for trips that “create unique learning opportunities that cultivate self-awareness, self-confidence and leadership skills in our scholars,” said Schwartz, who also is mayor of Downs.

The McLean County Diversity Project Web site is www.mcleancountydiversity.org.

Take a look
Robyn Folks tells of her experiences raising a daughter who is bisexual as she's interviewed by Manish Mandava, a student from Normal Community High School reporting for the McLean County Diversity Project. (The Pantagraph/David Proeber)
Brandon Hood, 18, left, of Normal Community High School and boyfriend Zakh Donnell, 18, right, of Tri-Valley, dance during the 12th Annual Alternative Prom at the Unitarian Universalist Church in Bloomington on May 17. (The Pantagraph/B Mosher)
Steven Davis, a freshman at Normal Community West High School, takes notes while interviewing Robyn Folks on March 9. (The Pantagraph/David Proeber)
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Reader comments on this story - 68 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

something to think about wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:46 AM:

" The fact that the 12th Annual Alternative Prom was held at a church simply offends me. It's one thing to love the sinner, but to so openly accept and promote the sin?

Just a case of another church not following the Bible, and making things up as they go along. Won't they be surprised and quite possibly full of regret when judgment day comes. "

ONLY IN AMERICA wrote on Jun 6, 2008 9:42 AM:

" Here's an idea- don't be so proud to come out of the closet.... there might not be as many problems. People will have to choose their priorities being proud or taking heat. "

Livingston County Resident. wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:59 AM:

" Sexual orientation has no place in school. Life is full of choices and all choices have consequences. "

St Armadillo the Laminated wrote on Jun 3, 2008 11:16 PM:

" No postings still.
How many others can see how many things are wrong with this picture. For the girl who says she's a Christian that she has other ideas, those other ideas are called sin against God and they don't have your best interest in mind. I'm not condescending or condemning anything but I pray that you tell your parents now before you leave for school.
They are your parents, you can drop a bombshell like that and run.It will break their hearts. "

VoiceInWilderness wrote on Jun 2, 2008 7:03 PM:

" Pantagraph...if you're not allowing posts in response to this article, please indicate it other than "DB Error: unknown error." Thanks for letting us know who wrote the article, though. It's obviously one sided. "

brsc wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:27 PM:

" Stunned that this would even be close to front page coverage. Now that it has been reported of homosexual adultry are you prepared to have front page coverage of heterosexual adultry? How about encouraging unity in our community rather than diversity. That is a little more "inclusive" and worth our time, energy and money. "

Townie here... wrote on Jun 2, 2008 12:32 PM:

" I agree with Lizzie. Kudos to King Salmon and Retired Farmer! "

olymomof3 wrote on Jun 2, 2008 12:08 PM:

" Anyone can try to use words of the Bible & twist them to fit their agenda. It is so sad to me that in this day so many USE the Bible to appease their own consciences. The TRUTH is in there, if you truly read it. A man is to have one wife. Not a wife & wife or husband & husband. And that is in the New Testament, not just the Old Testament. If you're not interested in the fact that Jesus died on the cross to save you so you can go to heaven, don't read it. I pray for those who condemn the words of Christ and for all of those, gay or straight, who choose to ignore the Truth simply to live selfishly. We're not in this world to live how WE choose to. "

IAR wrote on Jun 2, 2008 11:38 AM:

" To: MEH, kingsalmon, etc...: You speak of the hate "religious nuts" spew, but I have not seen one single post promoting violence towards homosexuals. I have seen disagreement from people who think homosexuality is wrong, but all the anger and name calling is coming from the "accepting" pro-gay side. Every action we take is a choice. EVERY ACTION IS A CHOICE. You may be attracted to anyone (or anything) but not take a physical action based on that attraction. People who disagree are not "knuckle draggers", "stupid", or "dieing old fogies"; they simply disagree with the choices and actions of homosexuals. Just as you may disagree with the actions of polygamists, of womanizers, of those who repeatedly cheat on their husbands or wives, this is an action that many disagree with. "

IAR wrote on Jun 2, 2008 11:24 AM:

" To MEH " Proud Conservative, being gay is a choice? Can you choose who you are attracted to? Could you imagine a possibility where you'd choose to find a member of the same sex attractive?" So MEH, according to this logic if someone is attracted to children, we should accept that because it is "not a choice"??? Please do not attempt to speak to others in a morally condescending fashion when your "logical" arguments are accepting of child molestation. I'm not trying to be mean or funny, I'm trying to have an adult, rational, logical conversation. When someone disagrees, please do not just throw insults; have an intelligent response. "

DonH wrote on Jun 2, 2008 10:52 AM:

" As a gay man who grew up in Pontiac of all places, I think kids should concentrate on being kids then worry about their sexual orientation later. I'm openly gay now, took me a while, but I was able to focus on myself in college and graduate school, get my degrees formulate myself as a person rather than a gay person. Once I had my stuff together it was easy to come out because I was established. "

olymomof3 wrote on Jun 2, 2008 10:48 AM:

" You folks are crazy if you think that gay/lesbian is not crammed down our throats. It's everywhere - TV, radio, magazines, schools, "support" groups in the workplace. Straight living is not something that is crammed down people's throats - that doesn't make any sense. And those of you calling yourself Christians & slamming gays should be ashamed. You are one of the reasons that the unsaved don't want anything to do w/ Christianity. Jesus loved all & hung out w/ sinners, not the elite. Try to get them to open up to the truth of the words of the Bible, but no need to slam them. Prayer is much more powerful than nasty words. "

Jarhead71 wrote on Jun 2, 2008 9:35 AM:

" Hey lesbian moms, could you please direct me to the Bible verses that condone homosexuality. You don't have to give me the ones you say support homosexuality, just those that condone it. LLBC, you might want to read that Bible that you are cautioning others to not quote for fear of misquoting it and becoming judgemental from. It is not about judging people, it is about judging behaviors. THERE is a very BIG difference. In the Old Testament there is a very clear phrase used clearly stating that homosexual behavior is an abomination to God. Not my words, not some incorrect translation of the HEBREW, (not Greek), the original language. "

Meh wrote on Jun 2, 2008 9:27 AM:

" The Peanut Gallery, why do conservatives not understand subtlety in language? Why does everything have to be simple wham, bam John Wayne style my way or the highway with you guys? Are your brains incapable of shades of gray? "

Jarhead71 wrote on Jun 2, 2008 9:16 AM:

" I have looked through today's online Pantagraph and NOT found "kingsolomon"'s reference. As usual though, he/she takes my comments and looks for a way to say that they are hate filled when they are not. "Truth Told" and I agree; hate the sin, love the sinner. When a person professes being a Christian, others must be able to see Christ and His teachings in that person. We are all works in progress, we are forgiven, not perfect, yet striving to be as Christ was, which will not happen until eternity comes and is. I have no hatred for the homosexual and no professing Christian should have either. Yet all Christians should hate the lifestyle, as we hate the adulterer's lifestyle or the criminal's lifestyle. One has to separate the act from the person. One is an action, the other is a being. To justify your positions, you prefer to say that Christians HATE homosexuals, or that we are full of hatred, which is not true. "

lizzie wrote on Jun 2, 2008 8:49 AM:

" Retired Farmer and King Solomon - Your first two posts are wonderful and thought provoking. "

Truth Told wrote on Jun 2, 2008 8:33 AM:

" Okay so this may not be the best forum but some things just must be said. As a Christian (not using this as a title, but just so you know where I'm coming from) honestly I have no problem with prayer not being enforced in school. Because no matter what type of posts end up on this site or across the country no one can stop you from praying. The people that believe in God know that. We can pray anytime. The sad part is, before, when prayer was in school, coupled with parent actually being parents instead of trying to be "friends and chums" with their kids there was less fighting, shooting or disrespect in the schools. Bottom line I can pray when ever, and please stop making comments that lump all religious beliefs into negative stereotype, and the bible clearly states to hate sin, not the sinner (e.i. love the person even if you don't agree with their beliefs, Jesus did and so should we). I could do the same with LGBT, but guess what, STEREOTYPES BREED HATRED. I had believed stereotypes before I met a gay person or a Christian, and they both changed my mind. "

The Peanut Gallery wrote on Jun 2, 2008 8:31 AM:

" To KingSalmon: "... the REAL reason is the idea of SEX between folks of the same sex distasteful, unpaletteable & stomach-turning ..."

Indeed, that image is disgusting to many. It is the main reason there is so much opposition to homosexual marriage; and the reason that many homosexual activists want to cram homosexual marriage down the opponent's throats through judicial activism. A marriage is a public affirmation of a union between a man and woman. Most find homosexual unions distateful and disgusting. "

KingSalmon wrote on Jun 2, 2008 8:25 AM:

" Jarhead needs to visit the other article on churches and gays also in today's paper. a poster named "retired farm er" syas some things to sit another dude straight that jarhead really needs to read. stop being a NAZI! Your faith has a really UGLY side and many of us don't want to be exposed to it. Please stop pushing it on us. "

world gone crazy wrote on Jun 2, 2008 8:16 AM:

" Your kids are always going to be your kids why push them into something they are not ready for if they were ready they would be "out" I think people are so afraid of what their kids may be to worry about what they are give them a chance to experience life before you decide for them what they should do.

Everyone is pushing the kids before they are even sure what kind of relationships they want to have and they should be only their business everyone should love each other no matter how or who they are just stop pushing stuff down everyones throat..
Love to God and the Children "

Jarhead71 wrote on Jun 2, 2008 7:27 AM:

" How does "I'm still a Christian" resolve itself with "and I am still choosing to not follow Christ" in a sentence? When a person says that they are a Christian but still want to steal, or lie, or cheat on their spouse or beat their children, how can others have confidence in their personal salvation message? This is the same scenario. I am not a homophobe. I view homosexuals as any other person missing the mark of living one's life to emulate Christ. We all miss the mark. The issue for Christians is whether they are turning away from their sinful ways, or making the choice to continue to push that line in the sand set by Christ. That line walking is always in a direction AWAY from Christ. "

The Peanut Gallery wrote on Jun 2, 2008 6:21 AM:

" To Voice in the Wilderness:

" ...Sexuality is a PRIVATE decision, of course, but there is too much confusion, especially during the vital stages of "identification ..."

Prepare yourself for a tsunami of derision from the homosexual community. They steadfastly assert that their sexuality is NOT 'decision' but rather a result of their biologic makeup. They argue that because they know that society has every right to regulate 'conduct' but is squeamish about regulating concerning biologic effects. "

The Peanut Gallery wrote on Jun 2, 2008 6:16 AM:

" to Meh:

Why do libs constantly try to manipulate the language to their political whim?

The words "explore" and "accept" have a plain meaning which you cannot twist to suit your agenda. I reject your attempt to do so. "

Retired Farmer wrote on Jun 2, 2008 4:11 AM:

" Dear Concerned Mother: a good place for you to start is a group that's been around for years called PFLAG, Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays. It's a tremendous resource and you can google them online. "

bngurl wrote on Jun 2, 2008 12:15 AM:

" I want to know why it's not okay to make fun of gay/lesbian children, but its okay to make fun of fat children, or children with big ears, big nose, freckles or for any other reason. I think they need to crack down on it in school. Yes children will be children, but there are some cases where children are bullied very badly.

Parents need to teach their children that all people are different and that making fun of people is not the way to do it. "

110100100 wrote on Jun 1, 2008 10:47 PM:

" bnresident

Didn't Jesus say “Love they enemy. Judge not less ye be judged. He who is without sin, caste the first stone. Don't look at the speck in your brother's eye when you have a plank in your own.”? I don't remember Jesus saying he didn't 'jive' with diversity. The guy hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, the scourge of society. No one has infringed on your religious beliefs. You're perfectly free to believe everyone else is going to hell and that intolerance is a requirement for salvation. Whatever religion you're talking about, it's not Christianity. "

Retired Farmer wrote on Jun 1, 2008 9:38 PM:

" The country- even the rural midwest is really progressing. Soon only Nazis and some Christians will hate gays. "

concerned mother wrote on Jun 1, 2008 9:23 PM:

" ANY help in peoria il for these kids to be with others that share their same beliefs???? "

concerned mother wrote on Jun 1, 2008 9:21 PM:

" Can anyone tell me if there are people out there to help me with my bisexual daughter shes a great kid and i just want to help support her decision AND im so PROUD TO BE HER MOTHER "

Ninaort wrote on Jun 1, 2008 9:15 PM:

" I think for GLBT, they'd better find some online community or something like that, to come out first, where they may feel support, happy, free. Actually, they are usually under great pressure. If they don't find some place to release themselves, they may live very hard. I think the one BisexualMingle is a good place for them. After that, I think they may choose some ppl who they believe very well to come out. Like this, step by step. "

jc.imsa wrote on Jun 1, 2008 9:10 PM:

" I went to PJHS and NCWHS from 2000 to 2003, and I could never imagine this project taking place as little as five years ago. I have not read a Pantagraph article for about that long, so I was pleasantly surprised to find out about the strides Unit 5 appear to be taking. I wish the students mentioned above the best of luck and assure them that few places are as close-minded and conformist as the high-schools in Bloomington Normal. "

Kevin Olomon wrote on Jun 1, 2008 8:15 PM:

" Dear bnresidient. Where have you been? Hiding under a rock? The legal system, organized religion and all other public systems have always shared YOUR belief that diversity doesn't "jive" with YOU. But after eons society is leaving you in a trail of smoke and correcting itself- progressing and improving. Feels strange doesn't it? Until just very recently YOUR beliefs were the ONLY option. Do you really pretend to not realize this? That YOUR way was the ONLY way for all of history? What a thing to let slip your mind. Seems to me you took your overwhelming oppressive power for granted. "

bnresident wrote on Jun 1, 2008 7:29 PM:

" So when does the legal system recognize that my freedom of religion (and its associated beliefs) does not jive with this "diversity" thing? I have a freedom not be diverse in the ways everyone else does, because it isn't what I believe in. "

NWHS student wrote on Jun 1, 2008 7:09 PM:

" I go to west (duh) and I can tell you there is no curriculum to support gay people or to make yourself gay. All they do is have a club and to tell you the truth I'm a senior now and I didn't even know it existed. They do not having a mandatory 'tolerance' session every morning. Christians having mandatory student prayer is exactly what you're accusing the gays of doing, forcing beliefs on others. "

VoiceInWilderness wrote on Jun 1, 2008 5:30 PM:

" We should respect each other with TRUTH! Snails are bisexual & some other species can switch according to "nature's call" for survival. But, MOST lifeforms are attracted to the opposite sex because of that same instinct for survival. I wonder how so many young people have been convinced they are gay when they really aren't...convinced just because they "naturally" at young ages innocently prefer the company of their own gender. That doesn't mean they are gay, any more than older women & men in all those coffee, tea, reading, bridge, church, fishing & other groups. Just because a boy is poetic, gentle, artistic, mannerly and hates sports doesn't mean he's gay. It's good that schools are teaching acceptance of differences in people but MYTHS promoted by any agenda are not the job of educators. Getting children convinced at a young age when they're most vulnerable and impressionable isn't right. Sexuality is a PRIVATE decision, of course, but there is too much confusion, especially during the vital stages of "identification." That stage is no time to confuse children over their sexual identity and choices with half truths or downright lies. "

young & open minded wrote on Jun 1, 2008 3:22 PM:

" Retired Farmer-
I completely agree.
I'm only 23 and I already regret the thoughts and feelings that I had when I was only 20. I wouldn't accept anyone that was LGBT (b/c of religion) and I didn't even belive that people could be transgender. I'm ashamed of those thoughts and feelings. I couldn't be happier to support some of my closest friends in life (both family and not) that have opened up to me. I'm glad that they had the strength to show me the intolerance and ignorance that I held so highly in my heart.

The idea of helping students be able to accept other choices or cultures is a great idea and should be more encouraged. Great article. "

big_guy wrote on Jun 1, 2008 3:16 PM:

" Homosexuality may not be a choice, but being Bisexual is a choice. "

Lesbian Moms wrote on Jun 1, 2008 3:04 PM:

" One additional comment about the "qualifying" of trips for the Diversity project. The "trips" themselves are additional opportunities to learn about and explore diversity. They are set up as learning environments not just fun and entertainment. So qualifying for a trip is not like going to Disneyland or some amusement park it is going somewhere to learn more about diversity. You qualify by participating, attending meetings, completing assignments and group projects. Please know what you are talking about if you are going to comment on a subject. "

MRS. wrote on Jun 1, 2008 3:00 PM:

" Yes,the old fogies are dieing and this will be pretty much a Godless world, remember what happened the last time? "

Lesbian Moms wrote on Jun 1, 2008 2:58 PM:

" To Econodude and others that have commented on the diversity group "qualifying" for trips. First of all you should know more about the diversity group before you comment on what they are doing. This project with the LGBT is only one project that the group is working on. The Diversity group is a group of diverse students who get together to discuss/explore and learn about differences in cultures, racial groups, ethnic groups and other differences among people. They "qualify" for trips by attending regular meetings, participating in group discussions, doing assignments/homework, and group and individual projects. These 3 students are only a part of the diversity project there are other students working on other projects. "

KingSalmon wrote on Jun 1, 2008 2:57 PM:

" Try as they might to explain, the simple fact is those who find issue w/ homosexuality, the REAL reason is the idea of SEX between folks of the same sex distasteful, unpaletteable & stomach-turning. They can blame sin & the Bible, they can blame whatever they want. But it's a SEX issue. When that image pops into their mind they cannot stomach it and THAT is where the RAGE comes from. Let's be honest here, people.

Heterosexuality is FLAUNTED everywhere. We can't watch a hamburger or a chewing gum commercial without seeing a man & a woman all flirty, huggy and hand-holdy. The degree of gay "flaunting" isn't anywhere near what we see among straights. If things were truly equal straights would REALLY freak. Gays make up roughly 10& of people. If we looked around & saw 10% representation in society... if 10% of tv shows were gay-themed, if 10% of Pantagraph articles were gay, if 10% of billboards were gay... well, you get the idea. It's a straight world and only every now and then is ANYTHING gay even visible. I think straights ought to be able to easily cope with this severe lopsided imbalance. "

RichieGB wrote on Jun 1, 2008 2:45 PM:

" I think Meh is my favorite poster here. Who else can so handily destroy the "arguments" of our town's bigots? Nice work. "

Lesbian Moms wrote on Jun 1, 2008 12:20 PM:

" to rufus963, you have made a big mistake by quoting the Bible. You say everyone should live by Gods plan and rules well then you better start selling your children and beating your wife and children. There are many things in the Bible that in this day and age most people find disturbing and think modern civilization would not be a part of, so on that note quoting part of the Bible is you just trying to use the Bible to your advantage. The Bible can be quoted to support homosexuality just as you use it to quote against it. What about treat others as you would like to be treated? "

Two Cents wrote on Jun 1, 2008 12:11 PM:

" I am a straight white female with fairly conservative views. However, it is beyond me, how so many of you can be so judgmental and angry about someone elses' unchosen sexuality. No, it is not a chosen "lifestyle". God created all of us differently and loves each and every one of us. Who are you......those that are so self righteous and pious, able to judge others??? You certainly have a right to your opinion and beliefs; however, if you truly believe homosexuality is a sin, leave it up to God to deal with it. There is enough hate and condemnation in the world, don't you think? "

Meh wrote on Jun 1, 2008 11:38 AM:

" You know, its sad, but I don't think BN_Republican (the real one) could even add anything to this discussion. Any satirical comment he could make has already been made in all seriousness by the conservative/stone age wing of Pantagraph posters. "

Meh wrote on Jun 1, 2008 11:30 AM:

" rufus963, you say "Minority? This just proves the close-minded people are actually the ones who accuse the heterosexual (normal) people of being close-minded."

I'm heterosexual (married, 3 kids) so please don't lump me in with your closed minded bigotry. I accept homosexuality as a normal thing and am fully capable of doing so without having any interest in other men.

And as far as the majority of Americans... the old foggies are dying off every year and the younger generation grows more tolerant - religious or not. Just like the most Americans used to have a problem with mixed race marriages, no one cares any more. "

Meh wrote on Jun 1, 2008 11:26 AM:

" The Peanut Gallery, you're reading too much into it. "Explore and accept" means only that you understand what it means to be gay in a society that is still largely like Iran - religious and intolerant. You don't have to explore physical acts of homosexuality and accept them in your personal life. To use an oft used conservative phrase - "Get a grip." "

Meh wrote on Jun 1, 2008 11:24 AM:

" Proud Conservative, being gay is a choice? Can you choose who you are attracted to? Could you imagine a possibility where you'd choose to find a member of the same sex attractive? Not me. I didn't choose to be straight any more than I chose to be white or have brown eyes and could never choose to be attracted to another male.

If you could never be attracted to a member of your same sex, how could it be a choice? "

MRS. wrote on Jun 1, 2008 11:21 AM:

" No, Meh, homosexuals are not criminals and are not breaking any secular laws that I know of. What I said was God doesn't create sin, people do, God wouldn’t create homosexuality only to call it an abomination. The problem you and those like you have is you are looking at mans law and if you do that then you are correct, homosexuals are doing nothing wrong but I look at both man’s law and what God says and what God says is far more important for me. Don't forget, I have two lesbian nieces and I love them. They know the family loves them for being people but they also know they leave their personal life home. We always welcome their friends at family gatherings. We do not chastise or humiliate them but they also respect us. We don't flaunt our heterosexuality in front of them but we do lead by example and because of that one is questioning her actions. The other one has an artificial palette and she is ridiculed by heterosexual men( and women) but is accepted by homosexual women(and men) "

LLBC wrote on Jun 1, 2008 10:22 AM:

" TO THOSE USING THE BIBLE IN THIS ARGUMENT: My opinion is that everyone needs to be very careful when taking it upon themselves to interpret exactly what they "know" God means in the Bible. Before judging homosexuals by the Bible, please take time to actually research the context, actual Greek words that were used in the original texts and their meanings, and the placement in the Bible. If you want to use the Bible verses that are from the Old Testament, I would advise extreme caution. If you take those verses literally, I guarantee that you have done something that would warrant harsh action against you by using the same texts you are using to condemn. I also find it very interesting how it is the "Christian" people seem to be the most judgmental because they feel that they "know the Bible" and have all the answers for everyone else. Be careful not to take God's job from Him. Your job is to love and SHOW GOD'S LOVE. He didn't ask you to judge for him. But again, that's just my opinion - I don't claim to be able to act as God himself and judge and condemn others. "

DK wrote on Jun 1, 2008 10:15 AM:

" Blaming the judiciary is so familiar. Those interracial marriages mentioned by Just a Guy were against the law by popular vote. Striking down those discriminatory laws was done by the courts. The judges were labled "activist". Does anyone really believe those laws should be returned to the books? I'm guessing the small group who still do not accept interracial marriages would hesitate to propose a constitutional amendment to outlaw certain marriages. Those who still object also recognize that who we marry is a choice that should not be subject to popular vote. I sure don't want a ballot measure to determine from which group my spouse should come. I wonder if MRS would allow her life partner to be selected by voters... "

KingSalmon wrote on Jun 1, 2008 7:51 AM:

" Over-bearing mothers, emotionally-remote fathers, social defect, mental deficiency, being molested at a young age, the devil, being sexually traumatized by an agressive female, being allowed to play with dolls when little, and just not having found the right girl yet... these are but some of the MYTHS concocted by straight folks to explain homosexuality... which seems to point toward nothing but confusion, disagreement and even lack of good old fashioned common sense. Now some are saying being gay is simply CHOICE (which totally cancels out all of the above that they stood by in total earnest for decades) ...yet none seem to honestly feel biology can possibly be involved. Now THAT is telling, wouldn't you say? Telling, indeed. "

KingSalmon wrote on Jun 1, 2008 7:28 AM:

" I believe that being heterosexual is a choice. And that if heterosexual people tried hard enough- focused clearly enough and really made an honest attempt they could overcome their straightness and become gay. (sounds not only ridiculous, but downright stupid, doesn't it?) "

chubbyalaskagriz wrote on Jun 1, 2008 6:39 AM:

" I never feel more adventurous & interesting than when I hear folks say that I have a "lifestyle". Usually I feel my life is pretty boring and way too conventional. I wear the same two pairs of shoes all year long, my neck bleeds when I cut myself shaving, I abhore being in traffic and I pay way too much in taxes. I'm middle-aged, overweight, single & lonely- but hey- I have a "lifestyle"! (Maybe my life isn't so dull & mundane afterall?) "

INFONUT wrote on Jun 1, 2008 1:59 AM:

" I do not think any of this should be explored at all in public schools. I am not there for the 8 hours my kids are taught by state, and other adults with other agendas....when I find out my child has been exposed to this thru a curriculum it will be attorney time.

Yes as u can tell i do not agree with the lifestyle but it is a free choice people are allowed to make. Issues of the bedroom should be kept in the bedroom and not in the schools. "

marieroxbury wrote on Jun 1, 2008 12:51 AM:

" this is what i say: let everyone be who they want to be, accept others for who they are, and accept others who are struggling to find out who they are. i say we be proud of anyone who is willing to tell others they are different, we all have our differences and that is what makes us human. call me idealistic or naive but can't we all just get along? haha "

Proud Conservative wrote on May 31, 2008 11:40 PM:

" Meh, there's one crucial difference in the overused argument you present. Homosexuality is a choice. I know...I know..."who would choose to be gay?"...right? What about this one? "Science shows there's a gay gene." Yeah...I've heard that one too. Millions of people completely disagree with this lifestyle, but still treat those who choose to be GLBT with respect and dignity. But we don't have to "accept" the lifestyle, "understand" it, or lobby for (special) gay rights. "

old biker wrote on May 31, 2008 11:08 PM:

" Meh: You are very correct, "the world is changing." But God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Deal with it. "

HowardRoark wrote on May 31, 2008 10:45 PM:

" to Proud Conservative: So something has to be normal for you to accept someone, or love them (in a nonromantic sense)? Being seven feet tall isn't normal. Having a mental illness isn't normal. Being able to stick the landing on a parallel bar dismount isn't normal. I agree with your second-to-last sentence. "

Just A Guy wrote on May 31, 2008 10:15 PM:

" Less than fifty years ago it was taboo (of sorts) for a black to marry a white, and now it happens everyday in every state. In the near future, gay marriage will be a normal, everyday thing. Just as there are people who disapprove of mixed-race marriage, there will always be a minority that won't approve of someone being homosexual. "

Retired Farmer wrote on May 31, 2008 10:02 PM:

" Like the middle-aged folks of today who made disgustingly ugly but socially acceptable remarks about Blacks back during segregation in the 50's/early 60's, Proud Conservative is going to feel ridiculously humiliated when he/she is a crusty old man/woman in a couple decades and recalls back to the day when he/she wrote that they were basically disgusted at the very idea of a tv show portraying the home of a same sex couple. How ignorant, trite and backwards. You ought to be really ashamed for such a stupid, stupid remark, Proud Conservative. "

Annienap wrote on May 31, 2008 9:41 PM:

" I don't approve of the gay lifestyle even though I have two relatives who are gay. However, I believe that absolutely NO ONE has a right to put their hands on another person to inflict injury on them no matter what the dispute is about. My opinion is to leave people alone who live a controversial lifestyle. Any lifestyle can be 'picked apart' if one puts his/her mind to it, so mind your own business, live your own life in the way you choose and just leave other people alone that you do not approve of. If they aren't hurting you, why should you hurt them? "

Proud Conservative wrote on May 31, 2008 7:57 PM:

" I won't quote the Bible. This is not a religious issue. But some people will never accept homosexuality as "normal" or "OK," despite the increasing visibility of the GLBT community and their attempts to portray this lifestyle choice as "normal." We're seeing it portrayed more and more in mainstream media: even channels like HGTV profiles gay couples' homes. I know most of you will call me - and anyone who agrees with me - "intolerant" and "ignorant" and "why don't I approve of 'love'," but these activities will never be "normal." Accept that. "

matthewlake@gmail.com wrote on May 31, 2008 6:41 PM:

" Econodude, let us not forget some other religiously grounded values expressed by the christian mainstream, each at a particular time in these United States, such as support for slavery, opposition to inter-racial marriage, opposition to women's equality. The mainstream church will catch up to the idea of full inclusion for LGBT people, just like it has found space for inclusion of these other groups before. It's just sad that the church isn't at the forefront leading the charge against oppression. In truth, Jesus would at the alternative prom in the basement of the Unitarian Church, and those "coming out" on the fringes of your religious community would be the ones standing outside with stones. I wonder what He would think of His church today. "

chubbyalaskagriz wrote on May 31, 2008 6:32 PM:

" I'm sick & tired of the bantering & battling that takes place within threads and postings at stories like this, and I refuse to get caught up in the craziness of it all like I have before and like many others do... But for the record I fully support and encourage TOTAL INCLUSION of PEOPLE in our schools and in society at large, be they gays, Christians or BOTH. What I will not abide is one group disallowing the peaceful existence and entitled freedoms of the other regardless of which side we're talking about here. If we cannot make peace happen here amongst ourselve, then the chance to make it happen on other larger more important fronts is doomed. Make it happen, folks. Make it happen. "

PantaReader wrote on May 31, 2008 6:31 PM:

" You're comparing Apples and Oranges Econodude, apples and organges. Exploring and accepting differences between people is something Jesus encouraged, that's the message of the parable of the Good Samaritan, or haven't read that book? The government getting into everyone's business and forcing everyone to wait while everyone else prays is a little bit too much government for me. If I want to pray when I'm in school, I don't want the government saying, "Yes, you may pray in school," because that opens the door to them saying, "No, you may not pray anywhere." If you don't accept the GLB lifestyle, then don't engage in it. "

RichieGB wrote on May 31, 2008 6:23 PM:

" That's some serious stupidity there, Econo-guy. Knuckles sore? "

Econodude wrote on May 31, 2008 4:37 PM:

" The story said, "Diversity Project director Jeff Schwartz encourages students to explore and ACCEPT the differences among people. Students are required to complete individual and group projects TO QUALIFY FOR TRIPS that “create unique learning opportunities that cultivate self-awareness...." This almost sounds like bribing students to "explore and accept." Yet on the other hand, people get upset about a moment for VOLUNTARY silent prayer or self-reflection in these same schools. This goes to show the double standard with the polital correctness we have in society today. On one hand students (and adults) are encouraged to explore and accept activity that many individuals believe is contrary to God's Word, yet those same individuals are ostracized by many when they "come out" and express THEIR religious views in these same shools. "
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