Pantagraph.com | Money | Group action convinces lender to stop foreclosure

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

FYI wrote on Jun 21, 2008 4:01 PM:

" I would like to know where the other $90k went, as it says they only received $6k? "

Iowaalum wrote on Jun 21, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Angelo Mozilo, the CEO of Countrywide, received a $110 million dollar golden parachute last year. Every day, we are finding out just how much the lending industry knew--the same industry some of you are so worried about protecting. There may have been greed by a few borrowers but, by and large, it was the greed of the industry that took us down this road. A national study conducted by NeighborWorks indicates that it was the products and practices--not the borrowers--that led to the foreclosure crisis; the loans themselves were designed to be deceptive and insiders are now admitting they were coached to target vulnerable populations. The mortgage lending industry made a killing on sub-prime and predatory loans. They need to take responsibility for the mess they created. "

mostly curious wrote on Jun 21, 2008 11:10 AM:

" Sorry, but I agree with Jwill, this type of "strongarm help" will drive the banks out of business. Yes, there is such a thing as predatory lending, but in my opinion this is no better - don't like the terms of your loan? Just go ahead and find some group to strongarm the company into changing it. Can't afford the payments on a loan you know you couldn't afford in the first place? Let the federal gov't come in and bail you out.

This is exactly the reason strong reforms had to be made to the bankruptcy laws a couple of years ago. People just borrowed and borrowed, knowing full well that they could wipe the slate clean with a few hundred bucks and an appearance in bankruptcy court (but your honor, I had no idea that I couldn't afford fifty grand in unsecured debt at 30 plus percent, really!)

Predatory lending needs to be stopped, but so does predatory borrowing. "

JustMary wrote on Jun 21, 2008 9:25 AM:

" Clearly the Armours got in over their head -- but it's also clear that they were pushed in by financial representatives who cared only about their commission. How dare Countrywide hide behind the technicalities and fine print when vulnerable people are pushed into signing documents they don't really understand. Clearly, also, they are surrounded by uncaring and uncharitable neighbors. Earlier this month, I was moved to tears by the incredible outpouring of neighborliness in Iowa, where people worked together to save each others' homes from the flood. This case moves me to tears for a different reason. If any of you, and I mean you, Real American, Jwill and MRW, dare to call yourself a Christian -- Jesus should sue you for libel. "

spottyjoe wrote on Jun 20, 2008 3:08 PM:

" Maybe all of you think it is ok to scam the elderly, I for one do not. If the loan was for the original amount bowered there would not be a problem, bit it is for a WHOLE lot more. "

snarky wrote on Jun 20, 2008 3:05 PM:

" The first move is to get rid of "Payday Loans" and "Car Title Loans". These are the scheisters who lead our young people on a chase they will never win. And the young people don't learn from it because they start their lives in debt they can't get out of. "

illinialumni wrote on Jun 20, 2008 3:01 PM:

" When you're signing papers that you don't understand in exchange for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars you should probably cough up the few extra hundred to hire a lawyer and have her put her professional liability on the line. When people get a DUI the first thing they do is hire a lawyer but when they want to get themselves hooked in for a couple hundred thousand they wouldn't dream of 'wasting the money.' Countrywide and the sub-prime lenders are truly evil incarnate but there's plenty of blame for the sign-happy homeowners. "

spottyjoe wrote on Jun 20, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Jwill1583: you do not know all of the facts in this case so hold your coments until you do. "

Randall Flagg wrote on Jun 20, 2008 2:11 PM:

" To FYI: You have to sign and initial about 15 pages of documents. If you decide that this "fine print" isn't worth reading and UNDERSTANDING, then sorry, but it's your fault and responsibility. Apartments are made for this type of person. If you don't know the difference between a fixed and adjustable rate, then you also are not ready to purchase a home. Just because you are old doesn't mean you are responsible. "

Randall Flagg wrote on Jun 20, 2008 2:08 PM:

" What does lying about her income have to do with the payment amount each month?? All that did was allow them to get financing. They were still told how much their monthly payment would be. They must have known then that they couldn't afford the payment. The article doesn't mention anything about their rate adjusting. It sounds like they should've taken a smaller home equity loan and got some small, necessary repairs done instead of putting their whole mortgage up. "

Jwill1583 wrote on Jun 20, 2008 1:23 PM:

" this is such a joke. if this kind of stuff continues, every bank in america will be out of business. people need to start taking responsibility for their commitments. i do collections for a bank. we work with people. but forgiving the entire amount? i don't care how "challenged" they are, they know they took a loan out and should know they have to pay it back. get them to restructure or something like that. not paying at all is irresponsible. "

mrw wrote on Jun 20, 2008 1:00 PM:

" I have arranged several mortgages over the years for purchases, additions, better rates, but never for more than I could pay back, nor more interest than I could afford. You sign sheets that give the terms, the payments a variety of information. 'They' lied about her income? Who is they, she signed it, so she lied about her income, I don't care if some one else said this is how you do it, she agreed, it is her name on the signature line. No sympathy here. this is why the rest of us are paying higher rates. "

roar wrote on Jun 20, 2008 12:59 PM:

" to The Voice:

there is "

The Voice wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:47 AM:

" If they would just make the documents easier to understand, that would help about half of the borrowers who are in trouble out. There should be one document that is required that spells out exactly what the percentage rate is, loan amount, for how long and the payments and nothing else should be on the document. Something in plain English with none of the other legal speak on it. "

roar wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:41 AM:

" smarter choice would have been a RAM but its too late for that. "

bcf8486 wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:32 AM:

" We have a foreclosure crisis going on in this country. 8,000 people every day see their homes enter into foreclosure. Can you honestly say everyone of those people did not understand their loan agreement? Get real. Deceptive practices are the primary reason why so many people are going into foreclosure. We need to stand up to big corporations who are scamming everyday people, demand that they give individuals loans that they can afford, at an interest rate that is reasonable, and to fix the predatory loans that they have given. "

mark802 wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:27 AM:

" 23Cubs writes: "What's worse is we have a local organization like this that thinks they can strong arm businesses into getting what they want." I think rather CIOP should be commended for caring enough to organize a peaceful protest around this issue. It's called civic engagement. But what's interesting is how quickly Countrywide agreed to negotiate a settlement. It shows these tactics can work. I find the spirit of the CIOP protest refreshing, compared to all the mean-spirited people posting here who apparently could care less if an elderly couple gets kicked out of their home. "

FYI wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:18 AM:

" pseudo-intellectual: So do you think an UNfair repayment plan would be better? I did say that a FAIR repayment plan is in order; not forgiveness. Think of it this way: if you are selling cars and an idiot and a smart guy come in to buy identical cars, the salesman knows he's going to be able to make more from the idiot who doesn't know how to haggle. I'm firmly in support of everyone paying their bills, but I'm not in support of lending predators(loan sharks) pushing through deals just to make a bigger commision. The lenders share more blame because they were saying people made more than they did and falsified documents to support this, which is bad business at best and criminal in fact. "

bigman1987 wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:16 AM:

" I applaud Countrywide for halting the foreclosure proceedings. However, the loan should not be forgiven. The couple did get money. The problem was the predatory lenders that misled them into taking out more money than they could afford. "

Maximus Headicus CCCII wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:14 AM:

" Inflation has really affected me as well. Gas prices, food prices, insurance, electricity. I also have this mortgage on top of that (that I researched, and made sure to get a fixed APR instead of an ARM). I sure hope the government comes in and forgives my loan, how do i sign up for that? Do i just stop making payments? By the way, once my loans are forgiven, I want to thank all of the hard working honest people out there that are going to pay for my mistakes by paying higher taxes and higher mortgage fees and interest rates. You people sure are nice! "

hepper wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:08 AM:

" On the news last night Mr. Armour said the loan is for $96,000, but they only ever got $6,000. If that is true then there really is something wrong here and the Pantagraph should do some digging to find out the truth. "

RajunKajun wrote on Jun 20, 2008 10:44 AM:

" I am really surprised at the negative responses to this story. Some of these comments are ridiculous. From my own experience, the Pantagraph doesn't print everything. So why be so judgmental? As a single parent, I know how hard it is to make ends meet and that was before gas, electric and food prices took a jump. It has become incredibly difficult now. I will have to make changes that I don't want to make. But until you are in that person's shoes, you just can't know all they are going through or have been through. Just because you didn't get all the facts in the paper, doesn't mean you know what all is going on. I would hope I would have some help if I was going through what these people are going through. "

real american wrote on Jun 20, 2008 10:32 AM:

" Hey chelley, no I didn't understand everything in my loan documents. However, like you, I had a lawyer look them over and answer some questions I still had. It cost me a whopping $200 to have a real estate lawyer look over the note. "

The other Dave wrote on Jun 20, 2008 10:03 AM:

" This looks like a great chance for the Pantagraph to do some investigative reporting. Thus far, there are only two facts presented. The Armours took out a loan. And the Armours do not have the money to pay for the loan. Based on these facts, you cannot fault the mortgage company at all. Maybe the Armours spent all of the money. Maybe they were robbed or swindled out of the money. Maybe the Armours never got the money. Basically, no one knows.

But to assume that the mortgage company is somehow at fault is a wrong assumption when we have so few facts. "

lizzie wrote on Jun 20, 2008 9:53 AM:

" I am a firm believer in "Buyer Beware" but I can't imagine CIOP helping just anyone. I'm glad the people got to keep their home and I hope they learned a lesson. "

Ekim wrote on Jun 20, 2008 9:25 AM:

" How insane is it to blame the lender #1 and #2 who cares that it was completely paid off when they inherited it? They borrow against it. It doesn't matter if the bought $200K and borrowed against it. What point was that suppose to make? Work with couple sure, but lets not go on the stupid side. "

chelly wrote on Jun 20, 2008 9:06 AM:

" CIOP great job as usual. To those of you bashing let it be known that they wanted to renegotiate the loan first into easier to afford payments for this couple. They couldnt get an answer out of anyone. To those saying read the loan papers before signing did you understand everything on your loan documents? I had a lawyer at my closing and I was still asking questions as I didnt understand all of it. When companies start taking advantage of the weakest among us then it is time to stand up and have them stopped. "

The Voice wrote on Jun 20, 2008 9:04 AM:

" At $4.00 a gallon for gas, that neighbor probably had to hit up Countrywide for a loan to mow his lawn in order to disrupt the gathering. "

BigBrother wrote on Jun 20, 2008 8:21 AM:

" I agree that if the government can bail out Bear Stearns they can setup a fund to assist home owners in distress to pay off their home mortgages. At least they can guarantee re-finance loans at low interest rates to stop repossesions. Don't kid your self into thinking that there were not and are not preditory loan companies out there. Slick talkers that promise to help you out and then when you show up to sign the papers change the rates or the terms. It happens all over and yes in Bloomington too. "

Crybaby wrote on Jun 20, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Carrie's hot! She's welcome to save me from myself anytime. "

23cubs wrote on Jun 20, 2008 7:43 AM:

" If you look at the county website(public information) the amount borrowed looks like a lot more than for home repairs. Makes me wonder what they did with that much money! At least their neighbor had the right idea and decided to mow his lawn at the exact time they wanted to stage a "press conference." Sorry, but I can't have any sympathy for people to take out a loan and then cry when they can't make the payments anymore. What's worse is we have a local organization like this that thinks they can strong arm businesses into getting what they want. Was this protest staged by ciop or the rainbow/push coalition? Kind of hard to tell the difference it you ask me. "

Econodude wrote on Jun 20, 2008 7:10 AM:

" At least the neighbor with the mower recognizes this for what it is. By the way, I didn't realize Carrie Underwood (second from left) was a member of CIOP. "

pool boy wrote on Jun 20, 2008 5:52 AM:

" whadda crock. I have 'limited cognitive abilities', too. I don't understand why the loan should be forgiven. Lotta facts and common sense missing in the story. Sounds like the neighbor is the only one who has a grasp on things. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Jun 20, 2008 4:11 AM:

" FYI, what you are missing is that anyone can claim they were "snookered" into their loan, and then get out of paying off most of it. Maybe you don't care much for the "deep pockets" lenders but we need them- how many of us can pay for a home out of petty cash or just write a check? What happens if Countrywide goes under? What these well-intentioned efforts are doing is encouraging multitudes of people to seek financial redress who knew very well what they were doing when they took out their loans, banking on the housing bubble to sell their homes at a profit when the higher interest rates kicked in. The "greed" you mentioned in these loans was not just on the part of the lenders. "

FYI wrote on Jun 20, 2008 12:50 AM:

" What you guys are missing is that someone snookered two people with 'limited cognitive abilities' into an unfair loan, which in all likely hood was either a teaser rate or interest only loan. Those documents are designed to confuse intelligent people, so it's unlikely anyone mentally deficient would understand the terms. People on fixed incomes/lower scores should have to get their terms reviewed by an impartial third party before closing any loan. I know tons of idiots that were told they could afford homes at teaser rates with no mention of what the payments would be when the teaser expired. Poor business fueled by greed. A fair repayment is still in order. "

mark802 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 11:14 PM:

" Great job, CIOP! You did the right thing. Let's hope they can work out a reasonable, just solution now. "

suds4333 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 11:02 PM:

" forgive the entire loan? come on guys that is why you will fail in the end. Hey Countrywide we know you gave them money but let them keep it instead of coming up with something fair to help them repay it. "

Rolling Eyes wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:54 PM:

" Cool! Now I know I don't have to pay my mortgage either. I just need to get a bunch of people to protest when I stop paying. I wonder if I can get myself a new BMW and then stop paying for it too? The possibilities are limitless now that I have been relieved of personal responsibility and legal consequences. "

bnresident wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:33 PM:

" Geez folks - if you can't read the fine print on the loan stating the payment terms, you have nobody to blame but yourself for the foreclosure.

I feel sorry for any folks facing foreclosure, but read the loan before signing it! "

Pinko Commie wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:06 PM:

" They should have foreclosed, this is ridiculous. "

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