Pantagraph.com | News | 13-year-olds reportedly attacked by more than a dozen youths

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

Townie here... wrote on Jul 22, 2008 3:45 PM:

" Carebear--like how you spelled toughie too...like the muffler place. Good one, made me chuckle! "

Townie here... wrote on Jul 22, 2008 3:35 PM:

" Carebear89--wow, new to the blogs and I'm guessing 89 is the year you were born? Too young to sense sarcasm and tension between myself and MRS.

Relax, hug your carebear and don't worry about some of the town's cynics...'kay? "

Super Grover wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:47 PM:

" One day these "Tough guys" will mess with the wrong person. "

Carebear89 wrote on Jul 18, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Townie here: whoa, whoa, whoa!!! I hope that i am not reading what you wrote for real. You hate kids and NOT thugs? This would apply that you like them, the thugs? really? Because i would find it hard for a sane person to side with a thug, unless they are a thug themselves. If this is true then you really need to figure out priorities. Good kids or thugs, good kids or thugs?..hmmmm that's a tuffy!!! "

Carebear89 wrote on Jul 18, 2008 12:11 PM:

" Nicole99511: Not recently really but in the past couple of weeks there have been some major brawls/fights or whatever you want to call them. These fights are including people of a very young age (13-17) and they are using weapons to hurt people. That is what is going on.

P.S. I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic to me as if you think what is going on over there is not causing any "grief" as i have stated. Also, I too live over by CIRA and I know all about what is happening in blo-no. I find it hard to believe, especially assuming that you have read this article, that you do not know what has been going on. "

romothesavior wrote on Jul 18, 2008 9:43 AM:

" Normalguy, you sound to me an awful lot like a moral relativist. In other words, you believe that we should be tolerant and that no one's lifestyle can be judged by others. The gangster lifestyle is no better or worse than being a lawyer, doctor, teacher, firefighter, police officer, artist, etc. To you, we can make no judgments.

If that is your stance, then how can you assert that tolerance is better than intolerance? The position of the moral relativist is self-defeating. You go around with your banter saying that we should never make value judgments and we should always be tolerant, yet you are making a value judgment in your espousal of tolerance itself. Your position has no utility because it is logically incoherent.

You even make a value judgment in your last post. You say the United States is the greatest country on Earth. What makes it okay for you to judge countries, but not okay to judge lifestyles? What is your philosophical argument for that one? "

yaitsme wrote on Jul 16, 2008 9:46 PM:

" jm2, you are correct that we do reap what we sow. When my children were small they received a spanking if they got disrespectful or mis-behaved. Now you can lose your children and /or go to jail for spanking them! Did anyone see on the news where the woman got a ticket for spanking her child?? Mine(Thank God) are good kids who wouldn't back talk an adult or be out roaming the streets after dark. Know why? DISCIPLINE! They have respect for authority because it was instilled in them with my hand on their bottom when they were young!! Give parents the right to discipline these children while they are young! Teach them that there are consequences to their actions! Teach the parents HOW to parent their children! I do NOT condone abuse in any form, ask my kids, they will NOT consider themselves abused! We also need stricter curfews and also tougher punishments for juvvie crimes!! Stop sending them back to Mom and (sometimes) Dad who are clueless as to what to do with them!! Yes it will cost more to incarcerate them, but might save some lives.HARSHER CONSEQUENCES to their actions are needed desperately in this town. "

jm2 wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:00 PM:

" When I see a child running through the clothing aisles in a store, I'd love to say something to the mom who is busy yakking on her phone or to the mom who repeats, "don't do that" a hundred times over but never takes action. It's a pathetic world we are living in but we reap what we sow . . . "

jm2 wrote on Jul 14, 2008 8:00 PM:

" To Meh's wife: There are so many children being raised with no manners and no respect for adults or peers or property (theirs or others). The people bringing these children into the world are not parenting them the way the majority of this culture expects them to be parented. Unfortunately it is getting worse year after year after year. It is a breakdown of this society's morals, values and expectations. Welfare, unfortunately, has been and continues to be much of the culprit for accountability and responsibility. Ask any public school employee, any store manager, anyone who works in a public setting and they, too, witness the lack of respect and discipline. There's an opinion in today's Pantagraph written by someone who had the guts to confront another adult about their T-shirt language. If we would all start voicing our displeasure to people's behavior rather than accepting it, things might begin to turn around . . . for the better. "

Meh wrote on Jul 14, 2008 2:27 PM:

" I agree that some of the problem has to do with lack of respect from the parents to the children. Children learn by modeling, and if the parent can't model proper behavior then the child isn't going to learn. Case in point, I was at the mall buying a bathing suit when I heard a mother yell at her small (3 or 4 years old) son to "Don't touch the eff'ing door or I'll punch you in the a**!" How on earth can children be expected to grow into fine citizens with that sort of upbringing?

Meh's wife "

Robert Edward Johnson wrote on Jul 13, 2008 5:52 PM:

" Actually, Geez, the Nazis and Communists got forced sterilization from the American state of Indiana, and Nazis being tried at Nuremburg used that as their defense. By the way, while references to genocidal death camps were made during those proceedings, the point of those trials was NOT genocide, but waging aggressive (rather than defensive) war. On those grounds, Tony Blair (as Bob Newman has pointed out brilliantly and hilariously in his comic send up The History Of Oil) and George Bush should be tried in the same manner, as Bill Clinton should have. "

jm2 wrote on Jul 11, 2008 1:57 PM:

" To Geez! . . . who said anything about "forced" sterilization? The suggestion was to offer $$$$ for voluntary sterilization. "

Townie here... wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:15 PM:

" MRS-lest I repeat myself...I hate kids...not thugs. Don't put your words in my mouth, PLEASE! I really don't want to be associated with your line of thinking. "

michelle24 wrote on Jul 11, 2008 10:09 AM:

" Sorry to get off the story, but jk83---I gotta know what it was like for your son to work with Chuck Norris! Way cool, just love the guy! :) I'm thrilled you all had the opportunity to work with him. HIIIIYAAAA!!!! :) "

Geez! wrote on Jul 11, 2008 5:40 AM:

" If you want forced sterilization for the general population, then you'd be better off in either China or Nazi Germany.

Get a clue! "

jm2 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 8:26 PM:

" oops . . . I meant to say "maximum of two children" (not minimum). "

jm2 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 7:14 PM:

" to Tom Terrific - RE: Sterilization Plan
1. There's not an age cutoff for women because the goal is to limit the number of children the female is reproducing yet still give her the freedom to have a minimum of two children. There's no way to actually prove how many children a male is fathering so I just threw out an age that would hopefully entice the male to get sterilized. On second thought, I think the age for the male to qualify for $$$ should be lower than what I initially stated - how about 25 years of age?
2. You ask, "What if after the procedure, they want kids and who will pay for it?" It should be an IRREVERSIBLE sterilization. "

normalguy wrote on Jul 10, 2008 6:53 PM:

" nuts? enlightened? it a fine line. what is one group of peoples way of life may not be your cup of tea, but hey who are we to judge. in the greatest country on earth, that people choose to live generation after generation in poverty and in gangs and the activities they wish to pursue, thats is just part of living in any city. cultural as defined in my websters dictionary is this. obtained by breeding or cultivation. im pretty sure that exactly fits the type of people we are talking about that do these things. "

mdorf4 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 11:56 AM:

" Tammy
I don't usually harp on writing skills, but when you use zero punctuation it makes your posts hard to read. Those are two of the longest sentences I've ever seen. You might not care, but read them yourself and maybe you'll understand my point. "

jipsi wrote on Jul 10, 2008 11:11 AM:

" to normalguy:

This will be the FIRST time I've ventured into name-calling (or something akin to it): Are you NUTS???

What planet are you from that you believe that CRIME is "cultural diversity"??
It is NOT. It is an aberration, an ill, a BANE to ANY civilized society, albeit one man has lived with, as a PROBLEM (not culture!), since the Beginning...
And, as man EVOLVES, progresses, humanity also tries to become MORE CIVILIZED, more IDEAL. To accept CRIME and disorder is to REGRESS, to DE-EVOLVE.
If some OTHER culture embraces CRIME, it does NOT mean we should embrace them AND their "culture"!
Are you a THUG trying to DEFEND your "way"???
It won't work here.
You might find a few puerile and twisted minds that swim like yours, but, for the most part, CRIME is BAD, and NOT "culture". "

prettyblueeyes wrote on Jul 10, 2008 10:31 AM:

" What a shame! All comes back to parenting. These parents need to be made responsible for their children. Too many parents now a days let their children run. In the end the only one who suffers is the child/children. "

zeder wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:54 AM:

" To: Nicole99511 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:34 AM:

" What the CCW stand for? " Carry Concealed Weapon('s)
As in a LEGAL citizen being able to carry a gun LEGALLY for self defense. "

jk83 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:45 AM:

" To Tammy: Yes, you exposed me, I did bully people in school. I buillied them for being jocks or for being rich. Me, chess team captain always bullied these individuals. Additionally my child wouldn't have had the crap beaten out of him down cause he's a ninja, you can't beat ninjas. He's trained with Chuck Norris and a slew of other notable martial artists. "

Tom Terrific wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:43 AM:

" jm2, I have a some questions about your plan. Why is there an age cutoff for men only? Why is it set at 30? Why not 40? What if after the process they decide they want kids? Who will pay for it? Take note that I did not condemn or applaud the plan, just asking some questions. "

steve... wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:39 AM:

" to Geez: The loophole is the portion of the law the excepts the transportation of a weapon that is unloaded and encased. CCW proponents have stated for years that an unloaded firearm kept in a fanny pack designed for concealed carry with the loaded magazine co-located meets the transportation exception. There is a ruling from 96 that clears a woman of taking an encased and unloaded gun into a court house but admits that the vague language in the section lends itself to "mishcheif". The previous posts were talking about the fanny pack carry option. So far the loophole seems valid so long as the person carrying doesn't go into a building supported with public funds, or to a public park, or into an area used for public housing. I think the loophole is great. "

Chuck Olnaldi wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:38 AM:

" CCW means concealed carry weapon. Not sure if that means any weapon or just firearms. "

Nicole99511 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:45 AM:

" To Grandma of two: The sub-station is still there by the laundromat but I rarely see any police cars parked there. I do see one very seldom so I have to assume that the sub-station is still there but it really doesn't help that there isn't anyone manning it. I guess they are all busy either eating their donuts or drinking their Starbucks. LOL. That was meant to be joke by the way so don't anyone get into an uproar over the donut and coffee comment. LOL "

Nicole99511 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:39 AM:

" To Carebear89: I may sound like I live in a cave, but I don't live in Normal and I don't go on that side of town much but could you please tell me what grief is happening on Orlando. My soon-to-be-ex lives on Northbrook and my kids go there 4 days out of the month and I don't like that area but haven't heard what is going on. I"ve heard some things that have happened, but what grief are these kids causing. I know I sound like I don't read the news but really I do I just haven't seen what is going on on that side of town. I live near CIRA so I am a bit of a distance from there. Thank you "

Nicole99511 wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:34 AM:

" What the CCW stand for? "

Geez! wrote on Jul 9, 2008 10:24 PM:

" The state law is very clear on carrying stun guns or Tasers. Unless you are in your residence or business you can't carry them. I have included the language directly from the Illinois Criminal Code explaining this:

(from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state;or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case "

jm2 wrote on Jul 9, 2008 9:02 PM:

" okay, here's another idea . . . stop the population explosion. The government should start offering cash for a voluntary sterilization paid for by the government. This offer would only be valid for females with two or fewer children. For males, let's say 30 years of age or under. I think $10,000 per person to be sterilized would catch a lot of attention. This plan would surely reduce many of the notsodesireables who seem to be very adept at reproducing, and it would save this country a boatload on welfare! Seems like a simple solution. "

normalguy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:20 PM:

" again. these kids receive the best possible education.( accordig to every public school supporter) they get free breakfast and lunch and have more opportunities than most kids in the world could ever imagine. now wether they choose to be the way the paper is alledging they are or were born that way its really just something B/N has decided to accept. the cops refuse to do anything and the city knows when to let sleeping dogs lie even if they growl now and then. a few people posting wont change the way governments have decided to deal with these people. "

normalguy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:13 PM:

" yes im being serious, and in case you havent noticed the city and police appear to be in agreement with me. do you think if this group of thugs were walking around hawthorne on the east side at 10 amor pm it would be tolerated? they know their area where they can get away with most of the stuff. sure it will stray our way on occasion but for the most part the headlines will always tell you were things are going down. chicago leads in murders but you live with it, sugar coat it a little and you get the olympics. its nothing that will harm our city and really just a good cultural reminder of others around us. people are different. "

tammy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 3:33 PM:

" to jk83 kids will be kids right well listen to this one i knew a bus driver that told that same thing to me when my little brother kept getting hit and picked on then when he defended him self and i told her kids will be kids who do you think got kicked off the bus not the kids who started it my brother who was defending himself i dont care what excuses you give these brats that think they are better then anybody and they can go around beating up innocent people or harrassing them for some stupid reasons i bet your one of those kids that bullied people in school and your parents and teachers made excuses for you too but you wouldnt think that if it was your child that got the crap beat out of them by about 12 or more kids would you you'd want charges pressed against every single one of those kids "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 9, 2008 3:17 PM:

" TO: HOMEPLATE

Are you serious?!?!?! You blame the innocent people for wanting to walk down the street? Sounds like pure to me. Excuse the criminals and blame the innocent civilians. You, SIR/MADAM, are EXACTLY what is wrong with our country. You remind me of the cop that I called when my neighbor was illegally driving an unlit go-cart on the road at night and I almost hit him. The officer's response "you shouldn't be driving here, if you know he's out." Excuse me, but last time I checked I have a legal right to walk down any road for any reason. The CRIMINALS do not have a right to VIOLATE THE LAW. "

jk83 wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:34 PM:

" Let's just remember, kids will be kids. "

Jwill wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:31 PM:

" unfortunately jm2, that would just add a lot more people to our jails. the parents of these kids wouldn't pay the fines. all it would do is raise costs to operate jails. "

Govt oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 9, 2008 1:39 PM:

" TO: BRETTINBLOOMINGTON

Google "concealed weapons in IL" the second website returned will not only explain in detail the info you are discussing about what FREEDOMFANATIC stated, but also gives a printout to carry w/ you in case you are stopped by an uninformed officer explaining your right to carry the weapon (as long as it is carried properly) as well as your FOID card info and attorney's ph. Number. "

Geez! wrote on Jul 9, 2008 12:34 PM:

" People in politics love their power like a drug. Threaten to take away that power, and they will do anything to keep it.

The mayor, city council, et al - need to receive a clear message: either clean up this area of town or get voted out of office permanently.

A letter-writing campaign, organized properly (the support of the Pantagraph wouldn't hurt), a rally outside of city hall, or a number of other activities can garner the attention of the press, thus the attention of those who can do something about it.

Maybe instead of being so uppity about "uptown" and a ridiculous fountain, they can concentrate on what they need most - keeping their citizens safe.

Unless they have a motivation, they will refuse to change. We (or you, I didn't vote for this mayor) voted them in, we can vote them out. "

inmyopinion wrote on Jul 9, 2008 12:08 PM:

" Want more police? Demand it from your town governments. They are the ones who approve or deny additional officers. Want police to do more in "those" areas? Demand it from police administrators who want to be all kissy-feely to "those" communities as not to stir up "bad" feelings.
How about writing/calling the town governments and police departments instead of typing responses on here? Perhaps then you will get results.
I don't think the cops are afraid of those areas at all. They just are overwhelmed and, in many cases, are not able to do much of anything. With the teens, it is a more difficult process than you think it is.
Accepting things for how they are is not always the answer however, you do need to teach your kids nowadays how to deal with these sorts of situations because they are happening more and more and it doesn't seem to matter if they try to stay out of it. "

Grandma of Two wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:26 AM:

" To: Normal Guy - do they know they have a "contained" area? Their "contained" area should be a prison cell. Law officers are trained and have the necessary equipment to deal with these low lifes. Not that I plan on visiting Orlando avenue anytime soon, what if they migrate to other "areas". If a private citizen hurts or kills one, it's not so easy to get out of trouble. I'm sure you could use the "safety" reason, but not before spending a group of bucks on lawyers. SO THE POLICE SHOULD BE MONITORING, PICKING UP AND THROWING THEIR BUTTS IN JAIL. THEN A JUDGE SHOULD MAKE THEIR BAIL SO HIGH, THAT THERE IS NO WAY FOR THEM TO GET OUT THE NEXT DAY JUST TO RETURN TO THEIR "CONTAINED" AREA. "

tammy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:16 AM:

" explain to me what section 8 has to do with parents not giving thier kids a plain old spanking it didnt kill me growing up in fact most kids i grew up with got spankings and they didnt turn out to be major hoodlums some in fact went into the army and became respectable people parents now days either dont care what there kids are doing as long as they arent interfering with them or they try the time out or grounding how do you ground a child to there rooms when they have tv's games computers internet in there rooms if i had all that i would have tried to be grounded all the time these kids are not society's responsibilty to raise them and find extracarricular activities to keep them off the street its there parents "

85bears wrote on Jul 9, 2008 10:59 AM:

" Freedom fanatic wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:00 PM:

Most everything from Chicago is bad for our community. "

Including the Cubs !! "

fyrfytr72 wrote on Jul 9, 2008 9:59 AM:

" Just like in many other parts of the country that is experiencing gang problems and crime, people want to know what they can do to ease the progress, you need to show your presence. People sit around and complain, well get off of this board and show these "kids" that you want your neighborhood back. Obviously there is only so much police presence that can be shown, now it's time for the community to stand up and show them that you want your city back! Be Proactive!! "

CharlieHustle wrote on Jul 9, 2008 9:11 AM:

" To normalguy: That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard someone say on here. You can't be serious. Learn to live with it? Why? They should learn to live like human beings. Not animals preying on the weak. Learn to be more accepting...what a joke! "

Zeder wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:53 AM:

" JM2: GREAT ideas!!! But it would never work in the world we live in today..sadly. The ALCU or NAACP would come in with a lawsuit and win millions.
Normalguy: LOVE IT !!! ;^)
Just wait until obama becomes President, he'll clear it all up in his first 10 days. "

BrettinBloomington wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:43 AM:

" Freedom fanatic-- You are correct in that the "law" does not pertain to a loaded clip/speed loader being housed in the same case as the gun. However it also states that "a reasonable person believes the case to not be easily accesable", so even though the officer at the time of the incident may not know the law, I personally don't care to argue with and officer, and have it straightened out by a judge. I would consider if the case was behind one of the front seats on the floor would be ok, but you can still be ready for action in a short time. Illinois leaves gray areas in the law that can be interpreted in numerous ways. Is the officer always a "reasonable person"? "

Burns wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:29 AM:

" At-risk kids go home to at-risk parents. We do not have a youth problem; we have an adult problem. "

Geez wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:22 AM:

" While I applaud many of the postings / suggestions here, I can't believe what I read on others.

As long as these punks can get away with it, they will continue to do it. There is no motivation for them to stop, but to become emboldened and escalate.

The question becomes - how do we stop them in a meaningful, convincing, and permanent way? "

Former North Normalite wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:15 AM:

" To normalguy: "learn to be more accepting of your neighbors. " Accept violence? Accept living in a hostile neighborhood that is being taken over by young thugs committing acts of violence on their neighbors and neighbor's property? Say "okay" to crime? Is that what you're saying? "

normalguy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 8:13 AM:

" we must trust the police that what they learned at the police minority summitts they are puting into practice. that is let these people be. dont open the substation at 9pm ,close it. to increase or enforce laws might only agitate things further. like what the liberals say about the iraq war. why stir up a hornets nest. just let them be in there own contained area. "

normalguy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:56 AM:

" this is cultural diversity. get a life people and learn to live with it. just because you may not agree with the life style some of these kids live, doesnt give you the right to judge. sure sometimes they may cross the line and committ an occasional misdemeanor or felony, but hey not so long ago sodomy was illegal. times change and we must learn to change wiith them. they are part of our community and must be embraced. the cops know when to leave them alone to do there thing. the cops have been to the police minority summitts and maybe you should to. learn to be more accepting of your neighbors. "

normalguy wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:49 AM:

" a day later im still laughing from this article. the cops in this town couldnt be more afriad of orlando. where is homeland security? but seriously besides the papers delayed reluctant reporting on yet another incident over there what is really going to be done? absolutely nothing. no city council will demand action. no police department will step up patrols. this has been escalating for at least 7 years and you must resign yourself to living with it. "

fyrfytr72 wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:46 AM:

" Should've expected a couple of you people to blame Chicago. It's easy to push the blame, expecially to those small minded people that can't accept the fact that crime does exist in their little corner of the world of Bloomington/Normal. Face it, you have crime and at times violent crime and sometimes it does come from the transplants that have decided to move, but it also comes from the people that are from B/N or have moved from other areas of the State/Country. There is crime everywhere, welcome to the real world. "

Rivers wrote on Jul 9, 2008 7:40 AM:

" jm2: I don't know what the answer is, but your ideas are akin to throwing magnesium on a bonfire. "

justmythoughts wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:15 AM:

" (part 2)
I want to bring up another point that hasn't been mentioned. If you haven't already, it's time to start educating your own children on how to exist among other kids that act like this. Your kids won't always be able to turn the other cheek or walk away, they will have to know how to defend themselves; they need to learn how to adjust their awareness to new and dangerous surroundings so they don't HAVE to defend themselves.

If the "innocent times" we all wish for are gone, let's admit it and deal with it, starting with educating our own kids. We can't control the thug's parents, but we can certainly control and adjust our own parenting. "

justmythoughts wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:15 AM:

" (part 1)
Where are the parents? The problem is, a lot of these kids are learning these patterns FROM their parents, teaching them how to get "respect", and coming down hard if they show weakness. Gang life is generational, it doesn't just pop up out of thin air. If you have a problem with a 13-yo thug, go ahead and take it up with his/her parents, but be prepared for those parents to be even worse. "

Home Plate wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:41 PM:

" To "small town princess"...your thoughts are in the right place, but in many of these cases the parents are not to be found or are already in the jug. Many of these kids live with aunts and uncles and grandma....I don't think we want to throw granny into jail, give her a fine, or make her do public service.
One of the cures might be to inform the innocent to stay away from these areas of concern. "

cats55ire wrote on Jul 8, 2008 9:01 PM:

" to jm2 - great suggestion!!!!! I couldn't have said it better! "

Freedom fanatic wrote on Jul 8, 2008 7:29 PM:

" BrettinBloomington
I know Illinois firearms laws, very well. It is not up to the officers discretion as to how the law read, that is a judges job. A mistaken officer may arrest you because s/he does not read the law correctly, but no one has been convicted for having carried a firearm as I described. Read 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a)(4)(iii) which is one of three methods to legal transport a firearm in Illinois. No where in the law does it say the ammunition or a loaded clip can not be contained in the same "firearm" carrying contained. It does say the firearm may not be loaded. No round in the weapon and it's not loaded. You do have to a container designed to fully enclose the weapon. There are some fanny packs designed for this. I would also recommend firearms training and more importantly be observant and avoid trouble. "

just thinking wrote on Jul 8, 2008 7:08 PM:

" il just keep my mouth shut its better "

jm2 wrote on Jul 8, 2008 6:54 PM:

" Yes, it's time for the people in BN to demand something be done! Quit blaming it on the police. Fear is no way for the decent, law-abiding citizens to live their lives in this community . . .

I would suggest youth curfew laws in targeted areas. And when a youth violates this law, the parent/guardian immediately has any household welfare (if applicable) stopped plus the option of one of the following: 1.) parent pays a steep fine ($500 first offense), 2.) parent relinquishes their vehicle and their child's vehicle to the city for 60 days (cannot coincide w/ time in jail), or 3.) parent/guardian and their child report from 3PM-8AM for 30 consecutive days in jail. Upon a second offense, they can enjoy choosing two of the options. The third offense . . . no choice - enjoy all three. PS: If they don't have a vehicle to relinquish the choices are easier. "

MRS. wrote on Jul 8, 2008 6:47 PM:

" I can't believe that Townie here... You may hate the thugs but I'll bet you don't hate all kids. "

Townie here... wrote on Jul 8, 2008 5:53 PM:

" This is sad...I hate kids. :o( "

Tripper wrote on Jul 8, 2008 5:08 PM:

" Memo to Normal Police: Orlando needs more police survilance.

Just thought I would help...lol "

keep-sarcasm-alive wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:49 PM:

" Dave said, "Education and jobs are the answer. " Since when do they not have the same opportunity as anyone else for an education and jobs? They need to go to school and apply for jobs.....that's the only requirements of which I am aware. I lived in housing several years ago during a rough time...you don't HAVE to be a thug...it's a choice. You have to train the parents before you can train the children. "

roar wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:47 PM:

" Country Boy, true, nothing is more dangerous than a kid with a gun. "

BrettinBloomington wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:47 PM:

" Freedom fanatic....Better re-check that law. It is up to the officers discretion, but most say that a loaded clip should not be in the same case as the gun.Keep it your pocket or console. Also, the law states that it must be enclosed in a case meant for that specific purpose. So, better attach a holster in your fanny pack or briefcase.Just an FYI. "

Luther Billis wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:36 PM:

" Ran past there on Sunday afternoon en route to the Constitution Trail and noticed there were about 10 police cars at the substation...I guess this might explain why. "

floyd wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:32 PM:

" They should bulldoze that place down and send them packing back north. The parents of these kids only want them for the free lunch ride the government is giving them. "

Country Boy wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:30 PM:

" roar, the whoopings fine as long as these 13 year olds are not packing any firearms themselves. concealed/carry laws just do not seem to apply to them and since they are juveniles a slap on the wrist and some time in juvey hall is about all they are going to get if they are packing.... "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:25 PM:

" TO: STEVENK

Sorry, only posted this once. Not twice. Thanks for the info. "

Freedom fanatic wrote on Jul 8, 2008 4:00 PM:

" Illinois law allows you to transport an unloaded firearm in a closed carrying case / container and a loaded magazine may be in the case but not in the gun, (fanny pack holster, actual gun case, brief case, use your imagination). Rip, tap, rack, bang. Slower, but better than totally unarmed.

Most everything from Chicago is bad for our community. "

Govt oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:49 PM:

" TO: STEVENK

"There is absolutely NO financial benefit to the COB or TON from Sec. 8 housing."

Why then do we receive federal funding for allowing section 8 housing? If not for the federal incentive of giving us money that was taken from us to begin with what incentive would towns have to allow it? "

small town princess wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:44 PM:

" When we start holding the parents accountable in court is when this will turn around. Impose fines, community service and jail time on the true people responsible and see what happens. "

BrettinBloomington wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:39 PM:

" Not sure of the truth of what I was told, but especially in the area of Bloomington that Gov't opressed spoke of that they call themselves the "lowlifes".Quite fitting actually. But they have been targeted one or two people at most, especially after they are leaving neighborhood bar. They are all young,the oldest I'm told is only 20. I do not know that they are the same group in Normal or not. I have been told that there are aprox. 250-300 kids that are in this group. I wish I knew an answer other than protecting yourself the best you can. Unfortunately violence breeds violence. "

stevenk wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:32 PM:

" Mule--the resident of a Sec. 8 unit pays 1/3 of their income toward fair market rent to the landlord, the feds pay the other 2/3 to the landlord. None of this money (except property taxes) goes to the local government. Incentive has little to do with it. A private developer builds it. All the local government does is make sure the zoning is proper, issue the building permit and inspect construction same as any other dwelling unit. In Normal, all subsidized housing is owned by private developers who answer directly to either HUD or the Illinois Housing Development Authority. "

inmyopinion wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:12 PM:

" To Govmt Opppressed Mule...the gangs have always been a problem the police had just been allowed to act more proactively. My take on it is nowadays, the police administration is too concerned about image and not looking like they are concentrating on one community as not to look racist.
justI35--exactly what worst schools are there in Bloomington/Normal? I am at a loss because from everything I have ever heard and read (especially on these comments) many of the kids end up at the same Jr. Highs and high schools. As far as them living in poor neighborhoods, I can tell you from experience that the "housing" they have here is FAR better than that in other cities like Chicago, Atlanta, New Orleans, and the like. Quite making excuses for people not parenting their kids...the parents not being there are the reasons these kids look for the connections they do in the gangs.
BTW, for everyone else....trouble isn't always just caused by the black kids. White kids have been a part of these groups or have been these groups and have been just as guilty!!! "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:02 PM:

who cares wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:01 PM:

" to stevenk.that sub station isn't manned 24/7? i didn't know that.i bet the bad guys know when it's manned.i guess they must use it for discipline purposes.if you don't get your ticket quota you go to the sub station.NOOO!not the sub station,put me on body cavity search any thing but that. "

stevenk wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:42 PM:

" To Freedom Ain't Free--There is a community center there, next to the police substation. The center is the Orlando Unity Center which is operated by the University of Illinois McLean County Extension and the Town of Normal. It provides positive experiences to children of the area and gives them a place to gather without the negative neighborhood influences. Also, the substation is open but is not "manned" 24/7. It is there as a satellite, for use by local, county and state officers for a variety of reasons but not as a regular police station. "

stevenk wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:37 PM:

" I'm not sure how Gov't. Oppressed Mule and others were able to tie the former Bloomington mayors and the coliseum to an area in northeast Normal. There is absolutely NO financial benefit to the COB or TON from Sec. 8 housing. These kids doing the beating need to be punished--there's no excuse for it. However, one needs to understand generational poverty to get a handle on what's going on there and in other areas of subsidized housing. If your parents didn't work, and their parents didn't work, and so on, where do you suppose they are supposed to get their values? A cracker jack box? "

who cares wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:27 PM:

" it's not just the bigger cities that have the young thug problem granted it's worse there,but it's trying to get worse in these smaller towns too.i thought i had MS-13 or what ever they were trying to be in my back yard last summer and low and behold the 40yr. old mom was there too acting like a teen ager.this summer the cops have been there 4 times in 10 days that i know of.your right the more of them there are the braver they get.that poor n.brook area is fubar. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:07 PM:

" TO: GRANDMAOF2 and TWEETY56

The sub-station is still there, but it closes at 9 (?), when it's needed the most. To quote Big Trouble in Little China "Police have better things to do than be killed." "

dennis wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:03 PM:

" I has a similar experience on oakland approaching Morris ave. I would say more than a dozen teens in the road with sticks and one had a chain. They would not move out of the road until they were ready. very scarey! I had 2 small children in my car! "

justI35 wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:53 PM:

" The biggest problem these troubled children have has been confirmed in many of the comments. These children are not respected or valued by our society. Neither are their parents. These children form gangs because the other members share the same frustration. They are aware that they live in public housing, attend the worst schools and are not desired in the community. They attempt to envoke fear, because fear is the only respect they will ever receive. Why would they care about anything else? "

Freedm Aint Free wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:53 PM:

" Maybe there needs to be more mentorship/outreach programs offered VIGILANTLY to these infected areas. As this is a spiritual problem... deep rooted. Love and understanding has so much power. If people will allow and work hard. It takes courage though. Who amongst you are brave enough to reach out to some of these youths?

How bout a community center closerby with strict guidelines and supervision - chocked full of mind-altering, positive activities. There are more relevant solutions than retaliating in like-minded violence. Violence will only compound any existing problems. Strong and faithful prayer warriors are needed. Because Love Drives Out All Fear. "

91241 wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:45 PM:

" A pack of youths attack a pair of 13 year olds. I would say that each and every one of them that were the attackers are with out doubt Chicken S---s. Over my years this is proven out over and over again. Really think about it.
Attackees, feel some pride that you are not associated with them. "

steve... wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:42 PM:

" On friday night around 10 PM the fire works were letting out at Fairview park. That may be the reason that the group did not stick out so much. Not to mention there was a stabbing at 710 Orlando and I can imagine a host of other calls due to the holiday. A neighbour of ours had an officer come to his house because someone in the neighborhood did not like the smoke bombs they were lighting. As much as we complain, they really do have other things they could be doing sometimes. People need to think before they tie up an officer with a complaint. "

tweety56 wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:27 PM:

" I have the same question as g-ma of 2 - what happened to the police station that is located out there? Something truly needs to be done out there and soon! "

Irish Eyes wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:23 PM:

" Do whatever you have to do to protect yourself, your family and property (baseball bat, pepper spray, knife, gun, etc.). Even if you break the law, it's better than giving into this human debris. The cops won't do anything to them unless they catch them in the act. I had one of these idiots step out in front of my car on purpose showing off for two of his thug buddies one time over on Route 9. I turned into him as soon as he did it. He got back on the curb real fast. I really don't care anymore what happens to this ilk. They don't want to make anything out of themselves anyway even if they are given every chance in the world. "

correctional/officer wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:12 PM:

" Its very sad how the kids are these days. They think its cool to just pick on someone and hurt them. I think it all goes back to the parents. WAKE UP PARENTS, get a clue of what is going on with your kids. Dont be stupid of what is going on with them. Get involved with you kids lives. THe prison wouldnt be filled with these thugs if the parents had back bones and stood up to there kids. DONT forget YOU ARE THE PARENTS. TAKE CONTROL.... "

MRS. wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:09 PM:

" Didn't I read the city withheld money that would have hired more police to help with the coliseum? I am not bashing the coliseum, my taxes aren't used. However, I do have relatives and friends in B/N and I visit them. That does affect me. I was in B/N Monday. I was on Veterans. In front of me were two young people trying to either impress or harass a driver in a Government car. I did not see one police car from airport road to rt. 55 south. Why, they are needed there more than trying to act like James Bond trying to catch speeders. I don't think they should leave I think there should be more police hired. Put some of the suit wearing investigators in the trouble spots. They are still police and have arrest powers. My son basically sets his own hours doing a variety of things from traffic on. Let me guess, another “ it’s not my job” thing. If you are a police officer it is YOUR job, which includes you, police chiefs and sheriffs. I guess B/N wanted recognition and they are getting it. "

blo-no wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:08 PM:

" most of the time it is babies raising babies for generations. That is why there is no parental involvement because they never learned how to parent correctly. Its all about positive role models and they have none of that at home, in the media, no where. "

Spanky wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:57 PM:

" To bkr0521. I agree with you, just what was the reason the police did not go after this group of thugs?? "

otis wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:39 PM:

" welcome to the jungle "

roar wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:34 PM:

" You know, I have been an opponent for concealed carry laws for quite some time now, but I am beginning to falter in my beliefs. I will never need to carry, I’m much better with my hands, but I can see how some people would feel safer out there with it. Just please don’t shoot any 13yr olds when all they need is good a$$ whooping. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:07 PM:

" TO: FARKEL

Thanks for that. I was unaware of this. But our "gang" issues really weren't a problem until Markowitz accepted the Cabrini Green thugs. Now this can be taken as a stated fact or opinion, but prior to that time I really don't remeber the last time a gunshot was reported here, now it's become so passe that it makes 12th page news buried in a small column off to the side. We as law abiding citizens need to take back the night, even if it is slightly "illegal" ways i.e. carrying a stun gun (they do make them so they look identical to a cell phone now.) "

isunormalil wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:05 PM:

" What are two 13 year olds doing walking around that neighborhood at 10Pm?? Maybe i am a little protective of my kids...but where are these kids parents? "

Farkel wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:53 AM:

" Mule, everyone wants to blame Judy for everything, but Section 8 housing came to Bloomington under Jesse Smart. He was convinced, and he convinced the city council, that Section 8 housing was (paraphrasing here) "for young people just starting out, like my daughter and her husband". Makes one wonder what they were starting out to become. "

Probly_Not wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:52 AM:

" Well said lowbrow!!!!! "

ldt wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:52 AM:

" to Govt oppressed:

Actually, I wanted to touch base on the stun gun thing. I purchased one for my wife back around 3-4 years ago. Then, once I looked into it, I found out that carrying a stun gun in a purse (or on you in any way) was the same as carrying a firearm. Well, In IL anyhow. However, at the time, you did not need a FOID to own a stun gun. The city of chicago decided that stun guns should be considered firearms, and presto, the state passed a resolution stating that all stun guns and tasers are to be controlled through the FOID program.

If you have time, look into all of the self defense items that are banned in Chicago. It is truly insane the stuff that they wpnt let people carry. Pepper spray is even illegal up there. (though I doubt many cops will ticket you for it). I wouldnt put it past Chicago to attempt to regulate steel toe boots. After all, you may potentially injure an attacker with them when they try to kill you. We wouldnt want that now... "

Truman the Tiger wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:48 AM:

" I would carry a baseball bat, ball and glove on all walks through Little Chicago, just in case you feel like playing baseball. "

Bloomington Girl wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:42 AM:

" How about everybody quit blaming chicago people when the facts aren't even out yet! These kids might have been born and raised right here, get over yourselves. "

Probly_Not wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:41 AM:

" The problem with these kids is that the parents DONT care or are just plain ignorant. If they cared in the first place, then they wouldn't be raising their children in the type of lifestyles that they do... getting pregnant by every man that looks their direction, fathers never knowing or being a part of their child's life, never working or getting an education, drug abuse, violence, no ambition... it's a never ending cycle! And kids learn by example. Give birth control out at school if it will stop teen pregnancy. Stop taking away funding for music, art, and other extracurricular activities. These kids need OUR help. I think we need to provide safe places and educational activities 24/7 to keep these kids busy and out of trouble. Why can't we utilize the Coliseum for more types of activities like these? "

cats55ire wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:35 AM:

" to DAVE - regarding you comment "Sadly we don't have anyone in charge who knows how to do any of this". . . .

WHERE ARE THE PARENT(s) . . . TEACHING SELF WORTH IS A PARENT'S RESPONSIBLITY!!!! IT IS NOT SOCIETY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO RAISE THESE THUGS!!!! "

Grandma of Two wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:35 AM:

" They used to have a police substation on Orlando. What happened to it? Since this has happened before, why aren't there more cops patroling the area? Being at Fairview watching the fireworks wasn't where they needed to be. And, it's been 3 days - why wasn't the public notified sooner. We need to know to protect our butts - in 3 days there could have been 4 more attacks. "

lowbrow wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:23 AM:

" There is a different mentality that is at play here. Is is as foreign to many of us as growing corn in the February. These teens have no direction and they never had. They see the grown men simply hanging out all day long doing nothing. Heaven forbid someone get a job. These men act like they are cool and that is what these punks see. The women expect no more from their men or their sons. Whatever these men and sons do is ok with so many of the women. The daughters live what their mothers show them. Pregnant and dependent on the system. They let these men live with them, they breed with them while the expect nothing in return. It is a perpetual cycle. It is ugly. When you see a small child with future in their eyes and then you see the circumstances and the mentality into which it was born, that gleam of hope fades replaced by despair. I don't know what the answer is. Like I said, this is not only a foreign way of living it is a foreign mentality. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:18 AM:

" TO: BURNS

Your question is a good one, but very simply answered. JUDY MARKOWITZ happened. She got the GREAT idea to agree to transplant the Cabrini Green residents here for the simple fact that we can then get a few dollars from the federal gov't for accepting offering SECTION 8 housing. THANKS JUDY. No wonder you moved from the area so quickly. "

Dave wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:16 AM:

" I saw a progam on one of the History channels about gangs. According to what they said the Chicago gangs are activitly sending members to downstate towns and cities to recruit and take over the drug and prostitution trades.
Gang members are like terrorist. Get rid of one and two more pop up.
Unless we as a nation and a state can offer the young black kids something better than gangs we're going to lose the fight.
Education and jobs are the answer. Creating a feeling of self worth is another.
Sadly, we don't have people in charge who know how to do any of this and because of that, everyone will suffer eventually. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:13 AM:

" TO: JIMMYCHOOGIRL

AMEN! After my previously posted incident I started looking into stun guns to carry w/ me to "take back the night." Did you know that good ole Hot Rod made owning a stun gun the same as owning a firearm? It seems to me our legislature's are the only one's benefitting from us being kept at bay by criminals. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:10 AM:

" This is very similar to an incident that happened to me on Saturday (minus the beatdown). I was walking on Bloomington's West Side w/ my G/F around 11PM. As we rounded the corner on Washington and Allin we were approached by a group of 15-20 youths who approached us and started "pestering us" (for lack of a better word) we kept walking when one of the youths who wasn't near us yelled at the group to leave us alone as I was w/ my girl. What i want to know is where were these kids parents? It's 11PM at night and quite a few of these youths looked 14-17. Don't we have a curfew (or respect for others) anymore? "

captainplanet wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:02 AM:

" I lived on Northbrook Drive for 4 years, moving out this past spring. I saw the beginnings of these "hybrid gangs" not long before moving. They are a group of fearless kids. One group I witnessed was trying to break into a car in broad daylight. The oldest of this group was probably 12. I would not recommend attempting to fight back. Again, they're fearless and can move quickly. When your role models are all neighborhood criminals and the parents are either no better or absent, this is what happens. "

Former North Normalite wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:56 AM:

" Glad I moved from this area before the summer, I knew it was going from bad to worse. Roaming mobs of bored, violent juveniles attacking people and performing property damage in nearby areas (Northbrook) - there are going to be more people like me who start leaving in droves and then the whole area is going to be a mini Cabrini-Green unless something is done. Whether it's through more police patrols or community complaints to the landlords of the Orlando complexes where these attacks are taking place (both incidently, Section 8 housing units), something should be done and done soon to take back that entire neighborhood. "

Carebear89 wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:35 AM:

" Perhaps these are the same people who are causing all of the other grief on Orlando Ave. They need to be caught soon!! "

bkr0521 wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:30 AM:

" So, why didn't the ploice try to find this group of hoodlums? Sounds like the kids flagged them down right away. I would think a group that big would stand out, it would be hard to hide. Some reason why the police isn't trying to find them? Once again, I am glad I don't live in Bloomington/Normal. "

Burns wrote on Jul 8, 2008 9:42 AM:

" I don't think I was living in a cave....I was out for a few years, but came back just a few ago. What the heck happened to Orlando Ave? I remember it used to be somewhat of an older college student / young adult apartment complex area. This is crazy that it could degenerate so fast. "

good ol boy wrote on Jul 8, 2008 9:35 AM:

" CCW, nothing more to say. "

Devil's Advocate wrote on Jul 8, 2008 8:59 AM:

" Ship em all back to Chicago! "

Shadow wrote on Jul 8, 2008 8:43 AM:

" Your tax dollars hard at work providing public housing for animals. END SECTION 8 HOUSING. "

zeder wrote on Jul 8, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Orlando Avenue... that about says it all... too bad, it WAS a nice area. "

cats55ire wrote on Jul 8, 2008 8:32 AM:

" These thugs are scum bags!!!! And BIGBROTHER, you're absolutely correct!!!!

There are citizens in this town (myself included) who do NOT tolerate this behavior! The parents of these pack members better start enforcing some rules at home and keep these "packs of losers" off the streets! This is a problem for parents--start controlling your kids, they're out of control!!!!!

PS And those of you who are parents for these kids--pls. don't start whining "oh, I can'd do this, this is society's problem". NO--it's your problem--handle it!!!!! "

keep-sarcasm-alive wrote on Jul 8, 2008 7:58 AM:

" Violence feeds on violence. Once it starts it escalates quickly. What a shame. "

BigBrother wrote on Jul 8, 2008 7:56 AM:

" The parents of these hoodlums running loose like pack animals better get thier kids under control. When the police are unable to protect the citizens the citizens will protect themselves. This could end with serious consequences for some juveniles. "

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