Pantagraph.com | News | Town hall on juvenile crime draws big crowd but no easy answers

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

jen70 wrote on Sep 19, 2008 11:59 PM:

" Also our town got rid of the previous curfews which were:
Sun-Thurs night 11pm
Fri-Sat MIDNIGHT **minors 16 and under** granted kids under 12 do have an earlier curfew than that also....

Then new curfew for 12-16 yrs old is as follows
Sun-Thurs 930pm
Fri-Sat 10pm **UNLESS YOU ARE IN ATTENDENCE AT A SCHOOL/CHURCH ACTIVITY AND THEN GOING DIRECTLY HOME** "

jipsi wrote on Sep 17, 2008 11:20 PM:

" I'm ALL for THAT (bootcamp).
FIRST OFFENSE, put the punk in that for six to nine weeks, where they can continue their education at the same time.
But a second offense (violent crime and/or felony robbery etc)? CHARGE THEM AS AN ADULT and throw them into the prison population.
In a few years we WILL see a turnaround, because it'll drive it home to the next generation of thug-wanna-be's that 'crime DON'T pay', not when the CONSEQUENCES are so severe.
It's called EFFECTIVE DETERRANT. "

OGS wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:09 PM:

" To jipsi
Nice reply, thank you. I don't know,,,maybe these rotten kids should go to boot camp. It helps some kids. I've once saw a documentary of an experimental high school that had a bunch of trouble kids that were fed better food (nutritionally complete) at school, including breakfast and maybe dinner. They all got better grades and totally changed their attitudes for the better. Wish I could name that doc., but I can't. What to do? What to do? I don't know. However as the professional that Mr. Yoder claims to be, I believe he could choose terminology that not dehumanize. "

110100100 wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:51 PM:

" GOM - yep, assault, resisting arrest, mob action = a whopping $250 fine. So, violent crimes are tantamount to traffic violations in the eyes of both the perpetrator and the so-called ‘justice system.’ "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Sep 17, 2008 9:41 AM:

" AND NOW, yesterday YODER actually let these hoodlums back onto our streets AGAIN! The 17 y/o arrested in connection to the 12 y/o that was jumped was let go w/ PROBATION and a FINE! YODER DROPPED 5 counts of aggravated battery, 2 counts of mob action, and one count of resisting a peace officer. THIS NEEDS TO END! Flood his office and let him know this is UNACCEPTABLE. "

jipsi wrote on Sep 17, 2008 8:27 AM:

" trying pt2 again (hate having to do this PC, but here goes):

If you are a parent of a teen(s) currently running loose at night with pals (with your blessing??), step up and say so.
A few folk here are defensive (offering up weak EXCUSES for the actions of juvenile deliquents) with more than a hint of a little guilt and/or shame.
BRING YOUR KIDS IN and OFF THE STREET, and TEACH THEM to be GOOD PEOPLE!
If you don't know what that IS, then you're a bigger part of the problem than you know. Get HELP. NOW.
Citizens of ALL RACES are in THIS discussion, offering various views and suggestions, all with the COMMON GOAL of seeing CHILDREN raised with love, safety and RESPECT for the laws of civilization.
Many will never become a productive, respected and honored member of law-abiding, hard-working society if something isn't done NOW, at the very least to REMOVE the "rotten ones" from the masses to keep them from "spoiling" younger brothers and sisters and making it "too late" for them, too!

LASTLY, SHEER BOREDOM never killed ANYBODY. These thugs, however, ARE close to it, if not have already. "

jipsi wrote on Sep 17, 2008 8:13 AM:

" to OGS:

Thanks for being one of the few people here that know how to RESPECTFULLY debate. I appreciate your opinions although I don't agree, and I like to think you're of the same mind. Sounds odd, but it's a pleasure to debate with someone as yourself.

I WILL agree that "warehoused" (in reference to extremely incorrigible youth) is a harsh term. But I believe it CAN be appropriate when addressing a group of REPEAT OFFENDERS who have PROVEN they will NEVER be successful rehab candidates (they're too far in, no remorse, no respect for human life, etc.); at that point, "warehousing" IS what one has to do when 'putting away' the unfixable, the unusable.
I, too, dislike referring to HUMAN BEINGS in the inanimate sense, HOWEVER, the criminal youth in question have LONG AGO stopped acting like HUMAN BEINGS in our society, when they can coldly, selfishly and with NO REMORSE or COMPASSION, harm another, INNOCENT, human being in their pursuit of a few bucks, a piece of jewelry, or, worse, appeasing their unwholesome sexual desire or hunger for POWER.
Those are the attributes of a MONSTER, not a salvageable human being.
. "

OGS wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:44 AM:

" To jipsi
I still disagree with the term "warehoused." We warehouse objects,,,put 'em on a shelf, stick 'em back in a corner, little or no light. No sorry jipsi, the idea of warehousing people is NOT going to help these hardened kids turn their lives around or develop any respect for you or the people they've harmed. Do I personally have the answer? No I do not. Do I know better than Yoder? On terminology, well yes I believe I do. Jailed would have been a similar term which refers to people rather than dehumanizing them as needing to be warehoused. Although a hard to deal with situation, a poor choice of terminology by Mr. Yoder. "

jipsi wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:52 PM:

" to OGS:
The "soft approach" SHOULD work, but only IF the children addressed are not so "hardened" as to render the gentler method totally ineffectual. The "softer approach" WOULD work, but only IF the children addressed RESPECT adults and authority, whether their parents are involved or not.

The THUGS we are discussing (whom Yoder described as "warehoused") are HARD. They are DISRESPECTFUL. They have shown cruelty, rage, hate and, obviously, DISREGARD for the VALUE of others and human life in general, when a group of teen boys can brutally beat and batter an elderly gentleman almost to death for the $15 in his pocket. If that had been my neighbor, or grandfather, YOU BET I would use harsher words than "warehoused" for those lowlifes. There is NOTHING DEROGATORY in calling a situation for WHAT IT IS, in brutal honesty. When a word or phrase is used to show disrespect or unwarranted contempt for another person or stranger, than THAT is "derogatory". But using HARSH words for HARSH reality? Nonsense.
(cont to 2) "

Sweetcheeks wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:40 PM:

" I say to all of you with suggestions that have not done so to join the Yahoo group B-N CAT. Why do you think that meeting had so many people? The members of that group spread the word and it is a great way to brainstorm on what we all as tax payers and citizens want to see get done about this problem. "

*rolls eyes* wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:08 AM:

" People need to get over this idea of "fixing things at home so parents will raise their kids right." Its NEVER going to happen. There are far too many underlying issues preventing every family from raising good citizens. We have to live in the real world he folks. So in the real world, what are we going to do about it?

I think getting rid of this pathetic juvenile justice system is the first step. Punish infractions early and punish them often with escalating severity so that kids learn to understand and consider the consequences of their actions BEFORE they take them. Right now they feel they can get away with just about anything. Unfortunately, they are right. "

normalguy wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:36 AM:

" schools do not reflect the community they serve. my money is spent to bus kids in from outside my community. look at the boudaries map for chiddix. its all green for an area then guess what? there is a little tiny green square off of main street on a little avenue called orlando. why arent they bussed to kingsley or parkisde? because then we can shuffle a problem and pretend its everywhere. "

normalguy wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:31 AM:

" yeah hybrid gangs, i guess thats like a hybrid car. its not reallly a car and doesnt pollute and doesnt have them same abilities as a real one. wake up the gangs are real. the first step is admitting the problem they have ignored for years. "

Super Grover wrote on Sep 14, 2008 5:06 PM:

" First offense 2 years at BOOT CAMP JAIL .
Give em One shot at Boot Camp,If they screw up again
Off to Jail for 5-10 years with em(no parole or early release).
Screw Up again make it 25 years(no parole or early release).
Time to worry less about the hoodlums and Protect the citizens.
Gang activity should start at 10-15 years in prison( no parole or early release).
Take the animals off the street NOW.... "

lowrider wrote on Sep 14, 2008 3:57 PM:

" I have noticed at my children's elementary school there seem to be more unruly children running around acting bad , not being bad just acting that way, when I confront them about their bad choice most of them do what they are supposed to. we need to get together as parents, and a community and help these children make better decisions. thank you for going and talking to the board meeting . Lets try talking to the children also. they are just as much to blame, for their bad decisions. "

OGS wrote on Sep 14, 2008 2:23 AM:

" Even kids from the "finest" homes and finest upbringing get in trouble too,,,including all types of crime. Maybe if real children were replaced with robot children the problems would go away. Until then, good luck. "

OGS wrote on Sep 14, 2008 2:19 AM:

" MISSterious,,,it is apparent that you have no conception of the emotions possessed by human beings versus animals. Get real! "

OGS wrote on Sep 14, 2008 2:17 AM:

" to jipsi
The "soft" approach isn't working? Well what does work? No one really has the answer. New and old trends are tried, some work, some don't. Using the term "ware housing" is inexcusable when talking about human beings. I do not care how long you've known Yoder,,,that has nothing to do with a derogatory term. Good luck trying your school/employment suggestion as school have cut back on after school activities and there is little employment for kids. Although I do not disagree that there are some bad apples out there, the more time these kids have on their hands with nothing to do,,,the more trouble they will find,,if for no other reason,,,,out of shear boredom. "

yaitsme wrote on Sep 9, 2008 8:49 AM:

" I couldn't agree more GOM... Too many parents of these little law breakers are clueless on how to deal with them (if they even care at all) and would benefit from the classes. Sure would save them a lot of headaches and heartaches in the long run. Not to mention that sooner or later someone is going to have enough and start bashing these kids heads. THAT is not the answer no matter HOW tempting it can be at times. Too many people are tired of not feeling safe even in their own homes. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Sep 8, 2008 11:36 AM:

" TO: YAITSME

You said "well there is always community service for BOTH parent and offender and I also think the parents should have to attend parenting classes as well. Maybe teaching them HOW to be a good parent is a step in the right direction?" I agree, but these parenting classes are not only to teach parents how to be parents, but can teach parents how to deal with troubled youths. When I was a teenager I got into a LOT of legal trouble. The judge ordered my parents to attend "parenting classes". My father refused to go as he felt he didn't need a class to teach him to parent (and he didn't he was a GREAT father, I was just a troublesome teen.) My mother attended and came to realize these weren't "how to be a parent" classes, but more "how to handle a troubled teen". After that my father attended and some good did come of them. I feel these need to be mandatory for ANY teen's parents caught violating ANY law, curfews included. "

yaitsme wrote on Sep 8, 2008 9:25 AM:

" Well LifeisLife, you are right, no person can relate to a child in that situation... So maybe the foster care system is at fault? I doubt it. These kids that are causing the problems need to be taught that breaking the law is NOT an acceptable way to get ANY kind of attention. I have a hard time having sympathy for anyone who uses violence for ANY reason! When you know right from wrong you should be held accountable for your actions...PERIOD!! Even if you DID come from a terrible environment! I grew up poor and had a single working mother... I didn't even THINK about going out and breaking the law!! Parents need to TEACH their kids and sadly, all too few are doing that these days. "

LifeisLife wrote on Sep 6, 2008 11:49 PM:

" I don't care if a child grows up in a foster home, orphanage, etc., when a child comes from a womans womb and takes its first breathe then is passed from the mother to a social worker or whoever because the baby is addicted to drugs that leaves a scar on a childs soul that no human on earth UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT CAN RELATE TO! Once a child loses that motherly bond its hard to love themselves without the proper support. But when a child has never experienced that motherly bond here comes the sociopaths. This is also true of the mother that never hugs and show affection and attention to her child, this is the child that acts out intentionally to get any form of attention good or bad. "

jm2 wrote on Sep 6, 2008 7:03 PM:

" One more thing . . . yaitsme . . . even though it SHOULD have been done, it's not too late to start removing these kids from their home environment and irresponsible parents . . . Yes, it is time to take back our cities and towns - tough penalties/consequences for first-time offenders would be a good start! Word would get around . . . either the behaviors would decrease or the offenders would be off the streets. Or, these families would pick up and move their crew to a more hospitable area! "

yaitsme wrote on Sep 6, 2008 5:28 PM:

" Regardless of what SHOULD have been done, they are the whole community's problem now. We need to take back our streets. I think the parents should be fined as well as the little punks. If the parent cannot afford the ticket.... well there is always community service for BOTH parent and offender and I also think the parents should have to attend parenting classes as well. Maybe teaching them HOW to be a good parent is a step in the right direction? Mr. Yoder at least had the guts to come to the meeting... No judges showed up to try and explain WHY these repeat offenders are let loose time and time again. Ultimately it is up to THEM to sentence these kids to some form of punishment. "

jm2 wrote on Sep 6, 2008 3:56 PM:

" to Lifeislife: It's not a generation you're referring to . . . it's a group of our population that should have been stopped from reproducing long ago OR the children they bore should have been taken away from them and raised in an orphanage (not a foster home) where most of those children grew up to be responsible, educated and hardworking, law-abiding members of society. "

LifeisLife wrote on Sep 6, 2008 12:01 AM:

" I remember working in the counselors office for extra credit when I was in school and I remember them saying "they parents must not be teaching them nothing" then when we call home to schedule a parent conference we would get 90 y/o granny that can't even come to the school cause she wheelchair bound. Or the girl that couldn't read that everybody picked on"her mother not teaching her nothing" so when the girl missed 2 months of school and they went looking for her they found her at home locked in a closet and her mom had been prostituting her to support her drug habit. Like I said, that generation is lost and we will never get it back! "

GreenLantern wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:20 PM:

" PARENTS can be held responsible. But does it actually happen?
From the Illinois Criminal Code:
(720 ILCS 640/) Improper Supervision of Children Act.

(720 ILCS 640/1) (from Ch. 23, par. 2369)
Sec. 1. Any parent, legal guardian or other person commits improper supervision of a child when he knowingly permits a child in his custody or control under the age of 18 years to associate with known thieves, burglars, felons, narcotic addicts or other persons of ill repute, visit a place of prostitution, commit a lewd act, commit an act tending to break the peace or violate a municipal curfew ordinance.

(720 ILCS 640/2) (from Ch. 23, par. 2370)
Sec. 2. A person first convicted of improper supervision of a child shall be guilty of a petty offense and shall be fined not to exceed $25. A person so convicted a second time shall be guilty of a petty offense and shall be fined not to exceed $50. A person so convicted a third or subsequent time shall be guilty of a Class B misdemeanor. "

BJ wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:00 PM:

" I am very upset that I did not get to attend this meeting. I wish I would have been able to attend and hear all the suggestions and or comments. I just have one question maybe someone could answer - Why was the Bloomington Assistant Police Chief there and not the Police Chief?? I would think it would have made more sense for the Chief to be there rather than the Assistant "

jm2 wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:44 PM:

" Part 2: The school detentions and suspensions, the alternative school, the once a week counseling sessions, the slap on the hands, etc., are not the answers to these problems - removing these kids from their home environment and their social circles at the earliest possible age is what needs to be done.

One more thing . . . the government-subsidized housing and welfare that is provided, and not kept under control by affording it ONLY to law-abiding (children included) and hard-working families, is contributing to the downfall of society! "

jm2 wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:42 PM:

" Part 1: Aside from the culture of today’s youth (rap music, clothing, verbal and body language, TV programming and video games), there is absolutely no one to blame for the crimes being committed by juveniles except the parent and/or the child. Either the parent didn't do their job or the child made a bad choice (oh, how I despise politically correct language). Unfortunately, there are no parenting laws in this country. With that said, the crime itself must be addressed and dealt with. My suggestion would be to impose extremely strict consequences and 100% enforcement of the consequences for juvenile crime, whether it's committed on school grounds or in the neighborhoods. These young criminals and their behaviors need to be removed from the communities. Once they are removed, and while they are in the care of someone other than their parent/guardian (aka juvenile delinquent facilities), deal with the individuals to improve their life. "

hera wrote on Sep 5, 2008 4:45 PM:

" I attended the meeting and admit no perfect solutions were offered. Unfortunately the kids who commit crimes often have parents who do not care and certainly were not in attendance last night. Unfortunately we cannot legislate parents to care. I was a single parent and my child has never believed that committing a crime was right. So please do not blame single parents. Thank you. "

whodathunkit wrote on Sep 5, 2008 3:43 PM:

" Here's an answer: parenting. I know, it's crazy. But, it just might work. "

Socrates wrote on Sep 5, 2008 3:07 PM:

" To ctlhuhu: or maybe we need Pat Buccannan-Palin and McCain to teach them all abstinence only education and have them all join the NRA and give them shotguns as soon as they can hold one up... wink "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Sep 5, 2008 2:55 PM:

" I would like to thank everyone for attending last night. There seemed to be more ideas and solutions coming from the audience than the whole panel combined. Every member of the panel only spoke enough to attempt to absolve their dept of any responsibility. Did anyone else notice when Bill Yoder was questioned he started speaking seemed completely lost and actually stopped long enough for Stockton to FINALLY redirect the question to the Court services rep. GREAT JOB BILL AND STEVE. How much taxpayer money was wasted to do NOTHING to help us? "

Cthulhu wrote on Sep 5, 2008 2:37 PM:

" Maybe they need the "help" of a "community activist" nod, nod, wink, wink, like Barack Osamah Obama. "

The Original JD wrote on Sep 5, 2008 2:07 PM:

" The answer really is simple. Hold parents culpable for the actions of their kids, and require some sort of certification that says a person is competent enough to have kids. We also need to remove the fear parents have in disciplining kids. Sure, a time out may work on some, but other require a more 'direct' approach. As it is, many parents feel hamstrung when dealing when troubled kids. Call the police when the kid is out all night results in nothing, but spank the child for staying out all night and the police knock down their doors. Something to think about though, is that the number of problem kids has increased in proportion to the liberal bias of the nation. "

Socrates wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:45 PM:

" Yeah, schools reflect the community they serve but at the same time the schools perpetuate the kids problems by ignoring them - supsending them, putting them in in school suspensions and not giving them homework, not caring/helping when they are failing, not promoting counseling in school or services outside of school for these troubled youths. Take a good look at those failing and dropping out, yeah the kids homes might be messed up and/or they made bad decisons, but school systems often let them fall through the cracks. Instead of providing real help they just blame the kid and focus on punishing. "

MISSterious wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:41 PM:

" ...continued.....However when children are brought up with values and are well-disciplined, chances are that vulgar and violent music lyrics and movies probably won't appeal to them all that much. Or, if it does, they certainly wouldn't allow it to transform their personality into that of the rapper or actors' characters. These juvies don't respect because they probably weren't taught respect. And we all know that teaching/giving respect doesn't cost a penny, so the "I'm too poor to know how to behave" excuse doesn't fly! "

MISSterious wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:25 PM:

" Lifeislife: well said. However, it is not a "generation" that makes kids turn out good and bad. If children are disciplined, and parents are consistent in their expectations and discipline, starting when they are babies then there is a probability that those well-disciplined babies will turn into well-disciplined children, and ultimately well-disciplined adults who contribute to society and pay taxes - rather than depending on the welfare provided by taxpayers. Right now, these juvie delinquents don't appear to be acting out for money (though they might steal it), or possessions (though they might steal those) but they are acting out because they think they can and they think it makes them bada$$e$. They probably got away with it in their childhood, and now they see nothing wrong with moving on to bigger games. Obviously, banning music isn't realistic, and it shouldn't be. Parents can control what their children listen to, yeah, but banning things only makes them more enticing, and gives them the desire to see or hear what is banned. continued.... "

Truth and Justice wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:19 PM:

" I know it is everywhere but we have contributed to it. Lack of police presence, people running red lights all over the place, loud mufflers. I sat at Council meetings when the police chief reported that crime was down only a few months ago. Karen Schmidt and the other 4 of the rubber stamp 5 stated how pleased they were to hear that. Those of us in the audience knew they were 'cooking the books' as usual. "

nonya wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:00 PM:

" lileislife....you are right. say it again. "

MISSterious wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:48 PM:

" Jipsi: I agree. It's time for the people that are causing the problems to be responsible for them. The "I'm poor" or "I grew up in a poor neighborhood" is not an excuse. There are plenty of people that grew up in those same conditions, and grew to be successful, law-abiding citizens and contributors of society. "

MISSterious wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:45 PM:

" OGS: I see your point, however these kids are not behaving as human beings, they are behaving as animals. If they want to behave like animals, then lets treat them like the animals they are! "

turtlelover wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:37 PM:

" AMEN JIPSI!
You may tick people off, but so what. It needs to be said! Why do some people, like you, survive and thrive after an early life of poverty and some people give up and turn to drugs, crime or something else? It's the PARENTS! Nine out of ten times it's because the parent/parents stuck by their kids and were responsible grown-ups.
That being said, everyone on here is talking to the parents of the problem kids and telling them to "Be a parent". I hate to break it to you, but those parents aren't reading these comments, they are probably not reading the paper at all and they weren't at the meeting. I don't know what the solution is to get these people more involved in raising their children but here's one suggestion: When juveniles are convicted of a crime, the PARENTS and the childred should be REQUIRED to have some sort of counselling or take a class or something to teach these people how to parent. They're only doing what they learned and unless you teach people how to parent well, nothing will change. "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:12 PM:

" Well, at least one question posed the other day has been resolved- crimes, especially juvenile arrests, are WAY UP in B-N. As indicated in the article, the figures are undoubtedly UNDER-reported in some areas of the city, where the culture discourages co-operation with the police. "

LifeisLife wrote on Sep 5, 2008 12:09 PM:

" But you couldn't pay me to go outside and destroy someone's property or disrespect and adult. That's because I was raised by the Martin Luther King generation. But we live in a different era now. The crack epidemic destroyed the black communtities. And from that epidemic we have spawned a generation of hateful, angry, and selfless children. This is one of those things you had to be there to see to actually understand. I don't care what anyone on this panel or in this world says, you actually had to be there to understand it. I'm not downplaying your situation (jipsi) but if a divorce and your mother being on welfare was all you had to go through than you are LUCKY!!! I can tell you things that happened in my life that you only read in books or see downplayed on Lifetime. If you don't think so e-mail me reddbone0927at yahoodotcom. I bet you'd be crying within the first 2 mins. "

LifeisLife wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:57 AM:

" Jipsi, you are absolutely right but the only difference is that society and the media tell you that you are suppose to be ok. How many times do you turn on the t.v. and see movies and videos portraying blacks as hoodlums and gangbangers. Every hip hop lyric states how "I stood on the corner and banged and sold drugs and killed somebody" That is the culture these kids are growing up in, and please no one give me that crap about not letting your kids listen to music, u and I both know we can condemn it in our home but they can easily go somewhere else and here it. I'm with you Jipsi my childhood wasn't wonderful My grandparents raised me because both of my parents were on drugs. Part I "

Bloomington Girl wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:56 AM:

" Cont’d- I went to school with kids who came from families where they didn’t even have enough money to buy detergent to wash their clothing so they wore the same clothes every day. And these kids absolutely excelled in school and went on to get scholarships to go to college, never got in trouble!! People come from all different walks in life. When you are dealing with KIDS who are committing crime I think it pretty much comes down to who the kids are hanging out with! No matter how the kid was raised if he/she gets into a group of kids who are out committing crime, well chances are that’s what they will be up to. This is why it starts in the home and parents are responsible for raising their kids, period! But like I said sometimes bad kids come from good families, this should not be an excuse but just a reality. "

Bloomington Girl wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:55 AM:

" Hi Jipsi-I just wanted to say I really agree with what you were saying in your posts. Poverty does not see colors & it is not going to be tolerated to throw the race card out there as to why these kids do the horrible things they do. I also wanted to point out that SOMETIMES it doesn’t matter how wonderful and great you raise your kids, sometimes kids will throw everything they were taught out the door and continue to “do what they want to do”. The thing with crime is, you cannot pinpoint exactly why a person chooses to commit crime. I went to high school with kids who came from wealthy families, had every opportunity given to them in life and they were doing drugs and out doing criminal activities, but that’s not how they were raised!!?? Cont’d "

Jarhead71 wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:42 AM:

" You all can thank the ACLU and NAACP and other do gooder organizations for this. They lobby the Leftislature and they pad the palms of the members to pass touchy-feely laws that do nothing to curb violent juvenile crime. Floor 10 is correct in their approach, but if the City tried it the ACLU would file suit. OGS has no clue. There are evil teens raised by evil parents in society. Warehousing is all that can be done. They cannot be re-habilitated because they were NEVER habilitated into a civilized society. "

NONYA wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:36 AM:

" jipsi: oh ya...I forgot....when we were growing up, the teachers in school cared about their students. Now all the teachers care about is thier paycheck. "

Crybaby wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:34 AM:

" I have to agree with 'jipsi'. Better yet, being poor can actually be fun. Why, we boys were so poor as kids that there wasn't any money for toys at Christmas. So, mom just cut holes in our pants pockets. "

NONYA wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:33 AM:

" jipsi: READ my words....warehousing is the not the answer. These kids feel warehoused already. What you don't understand is that these are the kids from parents who were just kids themselves when they were born. I grew up poor too...no lights and all....The parents were lost souls and now their children are becomming lost souls. Your pulpit sermons do nothing to help. "

cats55ire wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:31 AM:

" PARENTS need to take their responsibility seriously and step up to the plate!!!!!

to floor10 - your suggestion is also excellent--make the punks clean up or pay for the damage they do!!!!!

And finally, punish the parents as well if this work is not done or money not paid back. "

Super J wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:28 AM:

" Great to hear Yoder use terms like "beyond hope" and "warehoused." It's time to start hardlining.

One can only assume that these individuals have been given multiple opportunities to get their acts together, given the cottage industry that exists to "serve" these segments of society. I realize these organizations depend on the downtrodden to keep their budgets and paychecks rolling in, and thus benefit from "helping, but not TOO much." But unfortunately my two-year-old daughter got her first lesson in male anatomy this summer via the basketball court at Clearwater Park. So forgive me if my patience is wearing thin.

Sorry to be blunt here, but it's time to deal with the problem aggressively, and with malice, if necessary. "

sumnergrad wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:11 AM:

" We need to stop blaming all of the issues on being black or being poor. I grew up black and poor, plus I had two alcoholic parents. The difference is, that regardless of what my parents did, we were taught that there were rules to be followed and we wouldn't dare break those rules. My folks were drunk most of the time, but we knew the would sober up and if they found out we had gotten into trouble, there would be hell to pay. Our neighbors reported everything. Drunk or sober we had the same rules. Neighbors need to report kids to parents and parents need to listen. I knew that if an adult told my parents that we did something, that there was no sense in denying it. My parents took charge and we knew it. being black and poor is no excuse. The problem is that these parents are not teaching these kids values. We have sex education in schools, maybe we need to teach values, since they are not getting it at home. "

jipsi wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:04 AM:

" nonya:

READ the comments I have just posted (there are SUPPOSED to be THREE, if the P doesn't censor my carefully, tactfully worded statements).
I could have grown up next door to ANY ONE of the juvenile problem in B-N.
The DIFFERENCE appears to be that WE did not 'go that way' (crime, disrespect for authority, lieing, stealing, etc.).
You CANNOT empiracally state that kids 'go bad' BECAUSE of the poverty, environment or dis-involvement of the parents, in which they are raised, because there are MILLIONS of law abiding, working class citizens to lay that claim to waste.
Some do, some don't, but the REAL difference seems to be a cultural one, God help us...
People NEED TO THINK, NEED TO EDUCATE themselves, before crying the old 'poor kid grew up all wrong' claim. "

sumnergrad wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:02 AM:

" The courts need to take a stand early. My son ran away when he was 10 because he got in trouble in school and knew was going to get it when he got home. In MO, running away from home at 10 is against the law. He finally showed up and the police had already been called. He had to go to court, and was assigned a juvenile officer. He had to call a volunteer mentor once a week. I had to take him to counseling for about six months. This may seem like over kill, but it scared him and I did not have anymore trouble. He's 33 now. As a single mom, I appreciated the intervention, because I would have lost him. It was just a scare tactic, but it worked. By the time they are in high school, it's too late. "

jipsi wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:51 AM:

" (3, cont from 2)
If it keeps them off the street and out of trouble, fine... but it still rankles me that this feels more like an 'entitlement' thing again, when, in fact, more should be done in the area of EQUALIZING treatment of ALL people, that NO ONE RACE is better or less than the others, that NO ONE RACE should be entitled to that which the others are not, etc.

It's pointless to say it, but there should not even be a problem in the first place!
If you're a parent who's lost 'touch' with your kids, or if you're one of those who feel you're DONE raising them now that they can open and close the front door on their own, PLEASE! GET A GRIP and finish the task: be a PARENT and GUIDE your children into a better way of life (one that DOES NOT involve 'roaming' the streets with a mob of 'homeys' at all hours of the night or day in search of 'something to do')...
This may be a 'safer' town for YOU. But by letting your kids run wild, YOU have made it a more DANGEROUS place for others! "

jipsi wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:50 AM:

" (2, cont from 1)
We're WHITE. But we were so dirt poor we went weeks just having fried potatoes and onions or mac and cheese for supper (the ONLY 'family' meal; it was toast or bread otherwise).
Being this kind of poor is NOT something 'just blacks' deal with: it crosses all colors, races, creeds, faiths.

WHY is it THESE KIDS (the recent juvenile punks and thugs) are SO different - when it comes to dealing with being poor, no Dad around, a crowded home (three of us girls in one bedroom; brother had the only other and Mom slept on the COUCH) - that they must resort to criminal activity to 'entertain' themselves??
Further, even though it's a possible suggestion/solution, why is it THESE KIDS are going to need a gymnasium and/or Activity Center, just for them, to "play" in??(2, cont to 3) "

uickey wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:49 AM:

" SALLYSMOM is correct. The reality of the juvenile justice system is that no matter what the response...arrest probation, prison, counseling, detention, none will have an impact of change unless the parents are engaged. Most of these juveniles come into contact with the system AFTER their parents have had 15 years to screw them up. Then miraculously, the community thinks they should be fixed in a short period of time.

The problem is the community wants "quick fixes". Although statistics show that scared straight programs, jail, prisons, and boot camps are not effective in deterring further criminal behavior, the community still crys out for longer incarcerations. The community is not interested in taking the time to assist these juveniles but would rather blame elected officials and courts. I guess they feel better if someone would just say that we will lock them all up and be done with it.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal and believe that jails, prisons, and detention centers are necessary for community safety. But for the majority of juveniles who come into contact with the juvenile justice system...there must be a better solution. "

jipsi wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:49 AM:

" I know this is going to raise some hackles, but I have to say it... I grew up in this area, and with a divorce disrupting our lives while we were all still in grade school/junior high, our lives, with our newly-single mom who HAD NO WORK EXPERIENCE (hence, her having to get assistance just to keep a roof over our heads for a few years), were pretty TOUGH.
We were IN POVERTY, and one year we HAD NO CHRISTMAS (because my Mom was too proud to put our names on the local 'poor kids' Christmas list), but NOT ONE OF US, out of four kids between 7 and 17, even considered 'hanging' with a gang, getting into trouble, drugs, stealing, etc.
We didn't even mark the SIDEWALKS with chalk, we had been taught to be so respectful of others and others' property...
We found other kids to play tag or throw a ball around with, rode our (used) bicycles, read books, put together 'talent contests' in our garage, etc.
Mom (or Dad) NEVER had to pick one of us up from JAIL.
(1, cont to 2) "

jipsi wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:23 AM:

" OGS: Knowing him personally, since 1985, I'm sure Bill (Yoder) used the term because it is needed to SHOCK THE PARENTS of these "incorrigibles" into doing something NOW, while there may still be a fighting chance they can get "junior" off the street and into productive, academic and/or employable (with some recreational) pursuits!

The 'soft touch' isn't working, OGS. It's time to be honest, blunt and with intent to action, not just by schools, civic leaders, and general citizens, but the PARENTS!
Parents, again, of the children/young adults in question are being called upon to STEP UP and START RAISING and GUIDING their offspring into real world ADULTS! "

nonya wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:59 AM:

" "Warehoused"....these kids have been "warehoused" all their lives already...public housing, a failing school system, shall I go on.....and see what all the "warehousing" has gotten us. "

T wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:57 AM:

" Nice comments Yoder. Maybe when your kids are beyond hope we'll warehouse them. An the people of CIL continue to vote this idiot in!!! "

para wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:49 AM:

" fine the parents.

no parent will tolerate getting fined. the parents will take measures to insure that they dont get fined again. the fines can pay for something useful. "

tripper wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:40 AM:

" Did any judges show up at this gathering to discuss sentencing practices? "

tripper wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:39 AM:

" Seems to me the problem is with the judges. I perceive the judges get used to seeing crime and develop a tolerence the average person would not accept. "

michelle24 wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:36 AM:

" Yep, I'm with Spanky. These kids have got to learn that their unruly behavior has got to stop. Maybe the police should put handcuffs on them, then talk with them before their parents are called. Hopefully that will scare them straight. This is just a suggestion. "

SALLYSMOM wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Did any of you people actually go to the meeting? For all of you who think the court and criminal justice systems are to blame for the crime are sadly mistaken. Our courts, jails and detention center do a fabulous job for caring for these kids and adults. The problem lies at the home in the form of parents. Our system gets these kids w/no structure, no education, no common sense and they are expected to feed, clothe and teach these children who have had no upbringing in their lives. I was at the meeting last night and thought it was a great session, there are a lot of people who want to help and want to change things in this community, but unfortunately there is only so much we can do. The majority needs to be done at home w/raising these children in the first place. I think our community could do more but if any of these people who sit and point fingers on these blogs have any idea please let us know. Please stop pointing fingers and raise your children with common sense, mine did. "

hmmmmm wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:20 AM:

" yaitsme - it seems like our prosecutors always want to blame the judges. And yet as we get different judges, the problems stay the same. So is it a big conspiracy involving every single judge in McLean County? Or do we just need a new prosecutor? "

bloomcitz wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:16 AM:

" Most important way to get people to call in these incidents and individuals is for the Police to start actually doing something instead of the typical response, to paraphrase "we can't act until someone is bleeding". There needs to be a whole new attitude by police and some real authority given back to police to deal with bad behavior before it comes to fruition. If their hands are tied let's find a way to untie them. "

Spanky wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:10 AM:

" A good way to get ahold of this juvenile crime wave is to call in the parents or guardians of these hoodlums along with the offending children to meet with law enforcement personnel and judges! This would accomplish a couple of things the law enforcement officials would get a look into the child, his personality and their home life and parents roll in their individual situations!. Also, law enforcement and judges could throw a good old fashion "scared straight" scenario for them! It may work for some and not for others but it would be worth a try in my opinion! "

yaitsme wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:42 AM:

" floor, please submit the ideas you have to the web site that is going to be set up for that purpose. It is doubtful that much will be done, but at least WE the citizens are actually coming up with SOMETHING in the way of solutions.The address is in the article above. "

yaitsme wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:38 AM:

" floyd, unfortunately most of these kids are NOT " imported thugs " but teens that were born in this area. We as a community need to start getting involved in this problem by REPORTING EVERY INCIDENT!!!! If you see something that is not right, CALL THE POLICE. Part of the problem is the "don't get involved" attitude that is, sadly, all too prevalent in this town. Yes, I know that many fear retaliation. But if we keep not doing anything, it is going to get much worse. Our juvenile system does need work but it is all we have at the moment. Mr.Yoder's words of warehousing are the words of a man who is just as frustrated as we are! He can prosecute them till the sun goes down but until the JUDGES actually DO SOMETHING about these repeat offenders, he has his hands tied. By the way, NO judges showed up at this meeting...Kinda makes you wonder....Guilty conscience? "

albundy54 wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:24 AM:

" This meeting certainly proves what I have known for sometime and that is Steve Stockton has no clue how to lead anything other than a State Farm picnic. He is no leader of people and certainly is out of his element when confronted with any issue west of Mercer Avenue. I certainly hope we get a person in the upcoming months who has the strength and the ability to lead our city into the future. I am talking all 4 sides of town and not just the east side. Our streets are lousy and crime ridden and all this guy can do is make blanket statements and shrug his shoulders. He needs to be replaced as does Roger Aiken. "

imho wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:47 AM:

" I think that Normal has already down a good job of quelling the West Orlando problem by simply increasing patrols in that area. I think that Bloomington could do the same thing by focusing more attention on Market St. around the old Red Fox Grocery because despite the grocery store no longer being there, the problem still exists. I also feel that it is necessary that the two municipalities work together in creating for recreational outlets for teens than just hanging out at the mall. "

floyd wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:47 AM:

" number of arrests mean nothing when the judges slap them on the hand and release them right back. An earlier check on one of the recent thugs arrested revealed he had an extensive arrest record, was arrested for assault, and the judge gave him a 2 1/2 month suspended sentence. Total bull! Now all the thugs know Mclean county is soft on crime and they laugh at the legal system. When a small child winds up injured or killed by these imported thugs I hope these judges never get any sleep! It would be different it it were them being the victim. "

floor10 wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:45 AM:

" Hmm... one great way to deter crime is to stop slapping these punks on the wrist. If they spary graffiti on public property, they should be made to clean it up in addition to fines. If they slash someones tires, they should be made to replace them, in addition to fines. If they break someones window, again, they should be made to repair the damage THEMSELVES, in addition to fining them. Children today don't learn to respect themselves, respect others, or respect others' property. "

Lonewolf wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:43 AM:

" As usual, nothing was accomplisted. "

toms nemesis wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:55 AM:

" sounds like nothing was done. "

OGS wrote on Sep 5, 2008 1:51 AM:

" Did the S.A. Bill Yoder have to use the terminology concerning "...kids are beyond help and they need to be warehoused..." Warehoused! No wonder society has such problems when human beings are referred to as "warehoused." "

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