Pantagraph.com Weather forecast, local radar and more
NewsWednesday, September 17, 2008 7:24 AM CDT
Comments Comments (84) | E-mail this page E-mail this page | Print this page Print this page | Enlarge type Enlarge type | Reduce type Reduce type | Search archives Search archives | RSS RSS feeds | Add to My Yahoo! Add to My Yahoo!
Forget the lipstick, economy takes over presidential campaign
By Terence Hunt and Glen Johnson
Associated Press
Advertisement

GOLDEN, Colo. -- John McCain and Barack Obama traded increasingly barbed insults along with prescriptions for the ailing economy Tuesday as financial fears shoved aside lipstick on pigs and every other political issue in a blink with just weeks left in the long presidential campaign. | Stocks fluctuate | Fed leaves key rate unchanged | Interactive graphic | Video

An ad by Democrat Obama sneered: "How can John McCain fix our economy if he doesn't understand it's broken?"

Getting even more personal, Republican McCain retorted: "Sen. Obama saw an economic crisis, and he's found a political opportunity. My friends, this is not a time for political opportunism; this is a time for leadership."

McCain commented as he and running mate Sarah Palin addressed a rally late Tuesday in Vienna, Ohio.

The verbal dueling showed the importance both candidates put on the issue of the economy as the continuing financial meltdown on Wall Street has driven all other issues out of the news. Both campaigns now believe the candidate who manages to wrest control of the issue and gain voters' confidence could well be the next president.

Earlier in the day, McCain called for a crisis commission, while Obama laughed that off as "the oldest Washington stunt in the book."

"This isn't 9/11," Obama told a noisy crowd of more than 2,000 at the Colorado School of Mines, dismissing the idea of a need for study. "We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out. I'll provide it. John McCain won't."

McCain, campaigning in Florida, promised reforms, too, to expose and end the "reckless conduct, corruption and unbridled greed" that he said had caused the financial crisis on Wall Street."

The bewildering turmoil has shaken Americans' confidence, erased hundreds of billions of paper wealth for U.S. stockholders and led McCain and Obama to forsake other controversies and scramble back to the economy as the primary concern of voters.

The presidential campaign had taken an odd turn to side issues - Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" and moose-hunting, Obama's crack about lipstick on a pig - after McCain's surprise pick of Alaska Gov. Palin as his running mate. There was a fascination with huge crowds attracted by Palin. But the collapse and merger of some of Wall Street's legendary companies forced a return to reality seven weeks before the election.

What do the voters think?

McCain and Obama now are trusted equally on the economy, with 34 percent of voters naming each as the candidate who would do a better job dealing with what is easily the country's top worry, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll conducted last week. Previously, Obama had had a solid advantage on the issue.

McCain wasn't sticking to economics on Tuesday. His comments grew more personal as the day wore on.

He criticized the Illinois senator for taking donations from executives of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - the mortgage giants taken over by the government last week - and for putting former Fannie Mae CEO Jim Johnson in charge of his vice presidential search. The Arizona senator also chastised Obama for missing an economic stimulus vote, even though McCain himself missed a vote - and the possibility of breaking a Senate tie - a day earlier on a broader package. Obama voted for that package.

As for Wall Street and the nation's housing woes, Obama called the crisis "the most serious financial situation in generations."

"Since this turmoil began over a year ago," the Illinois senator said, "the housing market has all but collapsed. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to be effectively taken over by the government. Three of America's five largest investment banks failed or have been sold off in distress. Yesterday, Wall Street suffered its worst losses since just after 9/11."

He said McCain and President Bush subscribe to the same approach: "support ideological policies that made the crisis more likely, do nothing as the crisis hits and then scramble as the whole thing collapses." Obama said he has supported legislation to stop mortgage transactions that promote fraud, risk or abuse and has urged the administration to bring all parties together to find a solution to the subprime mortgage meltdown.

McCain declared on Monday that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." Then, after Obama accused him of being out of touch, he conceded the country was in an economic crisis but still said the fundamental strength of the American worker remained strong.

On Tuesday, McCain struck a populist chord against Wall Street greed. He called for a commission to probe the root causes of the country's financial mess - such as the high-level panel that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. And he reiterated that no more taxpayer money should be used to rescue private institutions such as the large insurer AIG.

Hours later, he used a rally before several thousand in Tampa to promise that "if Gov. Palin and I are elected in 49 days we're not going to waste a moment in changing the way Washington does business."

Obama said the nation did not need another commission, like the one proposed by McCain.

"History shows us that there's no substitute for presidential leadership in times of economic crisis," he said. "FDR and Harry Truman didn't put their heads in the sand and hand accountability over to a commission. Bill Clinton didn't put off hard choices. They led and that's what I will do."
Take a look
Traders work Tuesday in the product options pit at the New York Mercantile Exchange in New York. (AP Photo/Seth Wenig)
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama speaks during a rally at the Colorado State Fair Grounds in Pueblo, Colo., on Monday. (AP Photo/Chris Carlson)
Video
Most commented stories
Browse online archives
Recent issues:
Reader comments on this story - 84 total

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:04 PM:

" kgabby714

The bush bailout plan? LOL

It was a democrat APPROVED bailout plan! Over 60% of democrats voted in favor of this plan while republicans voted against it!

Just think, if it wasn't for the republicans voting against this, it would have been approved! And THIS is the plan Obama is running his mouth off on that HE made sure it had all these things to protect the tax payers!

Obama has been running his mouth along with most democrats how it was the republicans fault this plan did not get approved and tried blaming it on some republicans having their feelings hurt because Pelosi running her mouth blaming this crisis on Bush economics when in fact this was all from democrat economics that started back when Carter was President and then after Clinton changed it opening the flood gates with forced laxed lending policies! That Obama teamed up with ACORN on in his earlier days and sued banks for not approving risky loans! ACORN, the same company that was included in this plan to get 20% of any profits made! "

kgabby714 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:04 AM:

" Regarding the Bush Bail Out Plan
From Michael Moore's Newsletter:

"1. The bailout bill had NO enforcement provisions for the so-called oversight group that was going to monitor Wall Street's spending of the $700 billion;

2. It had NO penalties, fines or imprisonment for any executive who might steal any of the people's money;

3. It did NOTHING to force banks and lenders to rewrite people's mortgages to avoid foreclosures -- this bill would not have stopped ONE foreclosure!;

4. It had NO teeth anywhere in the entire piece of legislation, using words like "suggested" when referring to the government being paid back for the bailout;

5. Over 200 economists wrote to Congress and said this bill might actually WORSEN the "financial crisis" and cause even MORE of a meltdown. "

Now is the time for Democrats to write a bill that protects the Middle Class. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:15 PM:

" "Hopefully Obama's powers will not provail or that voters will wise up and get educated on our candidates...he's a dangerous man! I'm not a fan of McCain - probably would've voted for Hillary, but READ MY LIPSTICK... NOBAMA!"

It's OK. Go vote for McCain. It wont' matter in Illinois which is a BLUE state and proud of it. LOL when Obama wins in November in a LANDSLIDE. "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 4:19 PM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:30 AM: You seem to turn a deaf ear to McCain. He has repeated said he will raise social security taxes and add taxes on health benefits.

Dear "let's be reasonable", how can the U.S. Government meet the certain insolvency issues of the Social Security System without increasing payroll tax contributions to it?

As I see it, employer-paid health insurance premiums is part of an employee's overall remuneration package and SHOULD be taxed as income......we can use those tax revenues to assist paying health insurance premiums to employed persons who cannot afford or otherwise obtain health insurance.

For unemployed persons, there is the public health system as the primary health provider. "

GetYourPitchForks wrote on Sep 28, 2008 3:15 PM:

" " ...a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

Is anyone else seeing a light...I sure haven't seen anything.

Maybe Obama has "supernatural" powers? or maybe it's just voters, as well as the liberal media, are so ignorant and self absorbed, they fail to research a candidate and base their votes on his empty speeches.

Have they forgotten his 20 year relationship with Rev. Wright? We don't want a Black Supremist in the white house!

Check out Bill Ayers, Saul Alinsky, David Axelrod...and the list goes on...

Hopefully Obama's powers will not provail or that voters will wise up and get educated on our candidates...he's a dangerous man!

I'm not a fan of McCain - probably would've voted for Hillary, but READ MY LIPSTICK... NOBAMA! "

ES wrote on Sep 28, 2008 9:49 AM:

" I actually have to laugh at allof the sorry Republicans in this community. It has to be bugging the heck out of you to know that Obama will win all of the Electoral votes in this state. Illinois Proudly supports Barrack Obama! "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 25, 2008 6:47 PM:

" let's be reasonable

I don't care about Bush. He is not up for re-election. His time is up no matter what anyone thinks of him! "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 25, 2008 5:36 PM:

" If you want a perfect description of George Bush:

"Now that he has changed his tune again saying kiss that idea goodbye, don't you feel really stupid for believing his lies in the first place?"

Georgie Bush, a true socialist. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:50 AM:

" No, there is no deaf ear here. It doesn't matter who you elect, taxes always go up. We are stuck with only two choices which neither are the right choices. That leaves is with having to choose the lessor of the two evils which that is McCain by a long shot! Obama's tax increases will be 10 times any tax increase from McCain.

Obama says he will lower taxes and you swallow that line hook line and sinker! LOL

His recent flip flop announced his tax cut is dead and that taxes will drastically increase! Of course he will blame that on this bailout even though the records shows he has NEVER voted in favor of a tax cut on anything and has always voted AGAINST tax cuts. I believe it was 94 times now. So after 94 times voting AGAINST tax cuts he out of the blue says he will cut them and suckers line up believing it! Now that he has changed his tune again saying kiss that idea goodbye, don't you feel really stupid for believing his lies in the first place? Or do you still insist on wearing blinders? LOL "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:30 AM:

" Why isn't anyone talking about Obama's recent flip flop announcing his so called tax cut for 95% of Americans isn't going to happen now and that our taxes under him if he is elected will drastically increase???

You seem to turn a deaf ear to McCain. He has repeated said he will raise social security taxes and add taxes on health benefits. The ONLY tax cuts of any significance will got to the high income folks ala Bush. Vote republican and watch your money disappear. It already has. Who is better off at the end of 8 years of Bush disasternomics? Not many. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 24, 2008 9:47 AM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:18 PM:
" Why isn’t anyone talking about McCain’s stealth tax increase?"

Why isn't anyone talking about Obama's recent flip flop announcing his so called tax cut for 95% of Americans isn't going to happen now and that our taxes under him if he is elected will drastically increase???

Surely no one missed that yesterday. It came straight from his mouth when asked about it! Although he did say taxes are an issue and need to be addressed, but now his plan is pretty much dead due to having to bailout his friends at Fannie and Freddie. They are more important you know, they are the ones that lined his pocket making him the highest paid recipient of campaign funds in history of them giving out money! Wow! What a guy!!! "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:18 PM:

" Why isn’t anyone talking about McCain’s stealth tax increase? Bob Herbert wrote in the NYT that McCain proposes to make health care deductions no longer tax-exempt. Furthermore, he is going to make employees pay taxes on the employer’s share of the health care costs that they currently pay! A disproportionately large tax burden for the middle class.
— Arline "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:07 PM:

" "total disregard for the human race!"

Not really. I certainly would not leave the welfare of U.S. citizens to the republican party. Are you kidding, for them it is everyone on their own. You miss the point. Animal welfare is not about donations, it is about passing laws to prevent cruelty to animals and to neuter pets, among other things. I just find it interesting that the National Humane Society endorced Obama and not McCain. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 23, 2008 12:30 PM:

" let's be reasonable

What a crock! Who cares about animal welfare when it comes to human welfare? This is another reason why this country is so messed up! You say party has nothing to do with it, yet you are so for democrats no matter what! When choosing animal welfare over the welfare of humans is more important to you that right there shows you have a severe mental block and total disregard for the human race! That animal welfare crap has cost tax payers such an ungodly amount of money it is an outrage! How much money do you donate from your pay every week to give to these activists to protect your precious animals? "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 23, 2008 12:24 PM:

" airhead

Where have you been? Lobbyist have always ran the show. Not just republicans. Both Republicans and Democrats! They are all a bunch of puppets that take money from lobbyists, cushy job offers after they leave office, etc. Obama has been on the take from the beginning of his career. How do you think he ever got elected into office??? He was backed by the Chicago corruption. Now he has been backed by more corruption from Washington. He has only been a US Senator since 05 and he is the second HIGHEST recipient of money from Fannie and Freddie in those 4 years since 1989 when Fannie started doling out money. What does that tell you? Obama has voted AGAINST tax decreases 94 out of 94 times! What does that tell you? Obama has a LOT of favors to pay back to all his lobbyists that gave him money over the years! So here you have a young guy that has recieved so much money from these crooks it will take him a lifetime of favors to pay it all back. That is why they fund him so heavily. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 23, 2008 12:22 PM:

" One of the guiding principles of the Humane Society Legislative Fund is that we evaluate candidates based on a single criterion: where they stand on animal protection policies. We don't make decisions based on party affiliation, or any other social issue, or even how many pets they have. We care about their views and actions on the major policy debates relating to animal welfare. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 23, 2008 12:12 PM:

" Mama Kelly

Um, no, I'm not spreading lies. The bill was there. They didn't want it. If they thought it needed more meat then why didn't anyone bother to give it more meat? Because the fact is they did not want to regulate Fannie and Freddie at all, period! They were getting to much money from them to step on their toes by adding regulations to them. How is this current bailout any different? The plan is on the table, but they want more meat! You don't see them jusy tossing that to the side and forgetting about it simply because it doesn't have enough meat in it! If they really cared they would have done the same with that other bill. The truth is they didn't want it, period! So blame it on not having enough meat! Had they passed the bill we wouldn't have the mess we have now, regardless of the excuse about having enough meat in it! "

airhead wrote on Sep 23, 2008 9:39 AM:

" Obama sneered? Obama doesn't sneer. Why after 26 years would McCain suddenly decide to change Washington. I guess he could start today by booting out his campaign staff. If not we will change all right but toward lobbyists cause that will be who is running the show and not even pretending otherwise? Regardless of what they stand for, we have the old and we have the new. And sinced the old hasn't worked it is time for a new voice to be heard in my opinion. And just like always if that doesn't work we can boot him out in 4 years. Mccain doesn't care what happens in the meantime because he won't be running again. I am trying to figure out why he isn't choosing the rocking chair now instead of the oval office. He wouldn't have to try to keep facts straight or work on the weekends. "

Mama Kelly wrote on Sep 23, 2008 2:46 AM:

" to Follow the Constitution
You are spreading the same lies here too? This bill McCain co-sponsored in 2005 was a watered down badly written bill that was killed by Republicans and Democrats alike and never even came to a vote. Obama did not vote against it. No one could it did not get that far. Bush's Treasury Secretary wanted a tougher bill but this was the token bill they threw out knowing it would be shot down. Republicans are firm believers in deregulation. There is no disputing that fact. Deregulation and greed led to this mess-Not Freshman Senator Obama who had only been in the Senate for 5 months when this bill came and went with barely a whimper. "

bomotronic wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:57 PM:

" Yeah! Thats Right! I agree with fisherman. You can keep all of your "knowledge" and "facts" and "well thought out reasoning". Whats that done for anyone? Nothing thats what! "

Fisherman wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:02 PM:

" I do not care what they have done.. I care about what they will do... and Obama will get what is his and to heck with the rest of ya.. McCain will try to do what is best for the common man.. you can give me all your political historical super knowledge and I will ignore it because it has no relevance. Go with your gut... and if your gut says Obama, then maybe you should not have eaten that for dinner tonight.. if you cannot see WHO HE IS, then you deserve him. "

The Cat wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:47 PM:

" The usual “progressive” misinformed (Santo Fan, dwarf, (un)reasonable, ktlin, Pangloss, etc) are at it again with the DNC/leftwing talking points. As usual they don’t let facts get in their way. Santo Fan: Odd how you dismiss the fact that a Donkey politician’s son appears to be the one who illegally stole Palin’s PERSONAL emails that didn’t contain official business (like Sleazy Schumer’s people stole the credit record of the MD 2006 Republican candidate for Senate) or the fact that her ex-brother-in-law tasered her nephew and threatened her father and should have been fired from the state police (although that wasn’t why the safety director resigned). You also seem to overlook the appalling Donkey corruption from Rangel (who never met a tax he didn’t like or didn’t avoid) through Biden’s ties to Delaware banks and Dodd/Shrillary/Obummer’s ties to Freddie/Fannie along with tons of Bubba administration political hacks, many that are Obummer “advisors”. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:42 PM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:14 AM:
" "In 2005 McCain put a bill on the floor for more oversight of Fannie and Freddie...."

"BS. McCain has consistently voted for deregulation of the banking and mortgage industry. He IS part of the problem"

Yeah, BS....look it up. Obama voted against this to protect his own interest from all the money Fannie and Freddie were throwing at him. He was the second highest recipient paid money since 1989 out the 4 years he has been in the senate. Sorry to burst your bubble but these are the facts! If you want more economic disaster vote for Obama!

Look up bill S.190 Title: A bill to address the regulation of secondary mortgage market enterprises, and for other purposes.

Sponsor: Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] (introduced 1/26/2005) Cosponsors (3) Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 5/25/2006, Sen Sununu, John E. [NH] - 1/26/2005, Sen Dole, Elizabeth [NC] - 1/26/2005 " "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 22, 2008 12:24 PM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:14 AM:
" "In 2005 McCain put a bill on the floor for more oversight of Fannie and Freddie...."

Nope! Sorry to break your heart and ruin your fantasy, but that is fact! And the dems are not disputing this fact! Even Obama hasn't disputed it! So cry, kick and scream all you want, it isn't going to change what the facts are! The dems have been lying to you so much you can't see straight and will just believe anything they tell you even with factual proof they are lying! That's pretty sad dude! LOL "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:14 AM:

" "In 2005 McCain put a bill on the floor for more oversight of Fannie and Freddie...."

BS. McCain has consistently voted for deregulation of the banking and mortgage industry. He IS part of the problem. The reason we are in the mess we are in is because the greedy pig republicans wanted to make a quick buck on Wall Street and let their friends get away with while lowering taxes for the rich. Now, all taxpayers are stuck with a socialist republican buyout. Bush is nowhere to be seen and if he really were a conservative he would veto any bill from Congress and also would have balanced the budget, which he deliberately did not do, again to give his rich buddies an unneeded tax break. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:58 AM:

" Santo Fan....You have your facts backwards. This is undisputed fact!

In 2005 McCain put a bill on the floor for more oversight of Fannie and Freddie. He warned congress of their questionable accounting. Ominously, he predicted that at a later date the American taxpayers could end up paying dearly without this oversight he proposed. He wanted a seperate company to audit their books. Unfortunately, his proposal was defeated by Democrats and some GOP members that crossed lines. Oblahma voted against McCain’s legislation. Why? Because Freddie and Fannie are special interest groups that fund elections. And Barack Obama has recieved the second largest amount of money of anyone else from these groups even though they have been giving it out since 1989 and he has only collected for four years. So much for his “change” and for not taking money from special interest.

Thank Obama for taking part in being against preventing this wall street mess! " "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 17, 2008 7:07 PM:

" By the way, where is McDumb's leader these days? Almost a 1000 point drop in three days on Wall Street and Bush is no where to be found. Nothing to say I guess? Doesn't care? Isn't smart enough to understand it, let alone talk about it? And how about Cheney Jr. (Piggy Palin) using a personal email account to conduct state business, so as to side step full disclosure. Obstructing an investigation into Trooper gate by ignoring subpoenas. Calling the investigation into Trooper gate a political situation? Huh....the deciding vote to issue the subpoenas was issued by a republicant from the big city of Wasilla. Wow....is this the transparency she was talking about? Scary stuff....McDumb is Bushees little twin and Palin is nothing more than Cheney in a dress. Wow....well done republicants, trying to sneak 4 more Bush/Cheney years is on us. New polls out....ouch, McDumb is free falling. "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 17, 2008 4:26 PM:

" More comical republicant logic: We do not need regulation of any kind, and have never needed regulation of any kind because we (individuals and organizations alike) can all make sound decisions. Seriously, who writes this stuff...it is brilliantly hilarious. Point #1 - McDumb is now on board, agreeing that we need more regulation in the lending industry...do you not agree with your hero McDumb? Point #2 - Where have you been? Regulation is not new news. It has been around since this wonderful country was created. There are existing banking regulations, food and drug regulations, energy regulations....all sorts little fella. Point #3 - Specific to the lending industry, the regs are needed because there are (gasp) predatory lenders out there who take advantage of the very loose lending regulations currently on the books. What the new regulations will do is add stricter requirements around who can borrow and how much they can borrow. Point #4 - This is not rocket science. "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 17, 2008 4:09 PM:

" Fact: While the congress was controlled by republicants, improved lending regulations were thrown off the table at the direction of George W. Bush. The republicant controlled congress (including McDumb) towed the Bush line and ignored the perils of reckless lending. Obama was smart enough to speak out against the Bush policy of ignoring the need for more regulation. Sadly, republicants like John McDumb did not listen. Well, as you can see, election years can change things....McDumb is now on board, saying what Obama said ......we need more regulation. So Obama was right about the war in Iraq and he was right about the need for more regulation in the lending industry. Gosh, those are two pretty big issues where McDumb has been wrong and Obama has been correct. Why does all of this matter you might ask? Because we are at a T in the road....either we can follow a guy that has been consistently right (Obama), or follow a guy that has not only been consistently wrong, but wants to re-install the failed Bush policies. Easy choice in my book.....Obama-Biden in a landslide. "

The Artful Dodger wrote on Sep 17, 2008 3:50 PM:

" The Pantagraph can now retire this story. One brave blogger has solved all our problems. In the gospel according to Santo Fan, no one is individually accountable for his/her actions. We need more government, not less. The President of the United States himself must now regulate your entire life. That's right boys and girls, cradle to grave regulations. I just hope there is something left of this country in 10 years when Santo Fan becomes old enough to vote. The sad part of the whole thing is that Santo Fan probably won't understand my post as I have not played any silly, juvenile games with names, parties, or affiliations. "

polaris wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:24 PM:

" This shouldn't be about government regulation or insufficient regulation. Throughout banking history, banks have been rather conservative in making loans - ensuring that borrowers were of minimal risk to the institution. I have been appalled for several years at the free flowing money policies of lenders. They chose to take these risks by offering these products. As a result, they should bare the costs. These businesses should be allowed to fail. Yes, this would create a major financial crisis here and abroad. However, the financial industry people involved in creating this mess and those in Washington that enabled them, should be held accountable. The White House is not responsible for this - the fault lies in Congress. When I mean accountability, I mean regardless of political party. The voters this November need to hold Congress accountable - and elect people that will serve the country, not themselves. "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 17, 2008 10:49 AM:

" Hey Artsy Dodger: You are correct, Bushee and the republicants are not responsible for anything....that has been the problem. Well said....gold star for Artsy Dodger. "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 17, 2008 10:47 AM:

" With a republicant controlled congress, Bush and his team of wackos proclaimed that more regulation in the lending industry would just be more "bureaucracy". The end result here, is a lending industry that threw money out doors and windows, hoping that Americans would bight off way more than they could chew. I know I know...but it is the borrowers fault right? There is no way the government can regulate that......right? Well, actually the government can, and the government has a duty to protect our interests...hence the regulations we deal with all the time...speed limits, DUI laws, all the regs out there that our in place to protect our interests. Same thing here....Bushee missed the ball here, and so did the republicant controlled congress. Obama on the other hand tried to push such legislation, siting the dangers of reckless lending. I guess the republicants are finally coming around, now that they have a mess to pretend that they are not responsible for. It hurts you all so much when Obama is right and you are wrong. "

polaris wrote on Sep 17, 2008 8:37 AM:

" When are people going to wake up and recognize that it is not the job of any President to be the manager of the economy? The government as a whole spends around 20 % of the GDP. Clearly, through regulation, the government affects (in a negative way) the economy by adding additional costs every step of the way with little in return to show for the excessive amount of bureaucracy required. The President affects the economy by the occasional choice of Fed Chairman (Bernanke was a fine choice) and perhaps the Treasury Secretary. The President can also recommend to Congress that we should have tax cuts (always a positive effect on the economy and, thus, on government revenues) or tax increases (always a negative effect on the economy and generally reduces government revenues). Those that think it would be a good idea to put one party in control of both Congress and the Presidency are surely ignorant of the expected outcome. By the way, Obama did release the official copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate (but he still needs to release all of the other requested documents). "

Meh wrote on Sep 17, 2008 6:53 AM:

" illini boy, why do you want a record of baptism? Oh yeah, you fundies think of nothing else. "

jj01 wrote on Sep 17, 2008 6:48 AM:

" Obama will sure fix the economy with over a trillion dollars in new government spending. Lets go into debt even more. Lets let the government do everything for us. I have a hangnail! Can the government create a program to come help me? We should not have bailed out Freddie and Fanny on the govt. coin. They are businesses, let them work through it on their own. We saw what happened when we helped them last time, the execs lined their pockets. "

bnhuman wrote on Sep 17, 2008 5:13 AM:

" So the housing issue where people borrowed too much money is Bush's fault. The banking industry that loaned people too much money is Bush's fault. So industry and individuals made stupid decisions Bush is to blame. Ask yourself. Are you employed? Besides the banking and newspaper industry are jobs up? Do you make more than you did 8 years ago? Are YOUR taxes lower than they were 8 years ago(if you answer no you are not telling the truth) "

alexp wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:15 AM:

" This is just another example of the great leadership the Republican party has provided us the past 8 years and why another Republican President will be our ultimate downfall.

Everyone... look at your 401k and ask yourself... was it better under Clinton or under Bush. Definitely Bush comes up negative in all counts. "

The Artful Dodger wrote on Sep 17, 2008 12:03 AM:

" Hey-Santo Fan-What are you-about 8 years old? When you can drop all the "cutsie" name twisting and sarcastic name calling, please feel free to join the adults in conversation. What you (and about 80% of everybody else) do stopped being amusing in junior high. Grow up dude-seriously. And one final thought-you have yet to give any factual information on how GWB is personally responsible for the actions of those who make poor choices. "

Super J wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:50 PM:

" To airhead: Commonly known fact that Benito Mussolini was a big fan of FDR and Truman's social programs, and often stated so publicly. He should've felt flattered... after all, The New Deal was modeled largely (if not outright) after the socioeconomic policies of Mussolini's Italian Fascist party.

That's not name-calling, it's very much a widely held fact. "

Jarhead71 wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:10 PM:

" Yes, illiniboy, McCain is so much more a normal common man.......NOT. McCain is the son of an admiral, who is the son of an admiral. Not just born with a silver spoon, try platinum. McCain has been in the broken Congress for over 30 years. Now there is some change coming! Not. McCain readily admits that his weakness is the US economy. No DUH! 30+ years being part of the problem that got the US economy in such sorry shape and voters are supposed to support McCain in his bid to "change the way business is done in Washington, DC? Yeah, right. NOT. "

cats55ire wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:49 PM:

" I will be so happy when this election is OVER! I have friends overseas who wonder what is going on here in the US!!!???? I just shake my head and say "I have no idea"!

to Illini boy--FANTASTIC COMMENT!!! "

ofc313 wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:30 PM:

" To realist. Im with you ! I think I will vote for Ralph Nader, At least he saved us from the dastardly corvair ! "

Dr.Orangutan Chief Cardiologist Miller Park Zoo wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:51 PM:

" Et tu Super J ...When you the donkey in the face he looks very human ,but when he turns around he looks like Harry Trueman . "

Realist wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:38 PM:

" This is the most pointless forum I think I have ever read. Both candidates are going to criticize the other, BOTH of them. And the neither supporters are going to switch sides, they're going to argue with each other about their candidate being the best. So it's a TOTAL waste of time. It's more entertaining to watch the grass grow. "

TMIB wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:27 PM:

" To Santo Fan: What economic policies are you refering to? For most of Bush's term in office, the economy was doing great. Look how long it took for the high gas prices to cool everything down. I believe Clinton and Carter had some bad years as well. Actually, many presidents both dem and rep have had a few bad years when refering to the economy. "

TMIB wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:23 PM:

" I will admit I was not a business major in college, but isn't this just part of the normal business cycle? Do we not go through this, in varying degree, every 8 to ten years regardless of who is in office? For those that believe that this can be prevented from happening again stop listening for only what you want to hear. Do you really want gov't stepping in telling business what to do? Kind of sounds a little socialist. The last down turn was caused by the tech bubble. Every 8 to 10 years something else causes the down turn. This time it is the credit crunch. Is Bush to blame? Only if he is the one responsible for running up your credit cards, or made you over extend yourself on your house. I have a family member, my mother, who fell for the great rates. Now her house is gone. Whos fault is it? My mother was to blame for trying to get something for nothing. Sounds harsh, but that is life. "

ofc313 wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:15 PM:

" This is a bi partisan problem not just Bush. She Senate and the House are also to blame. The Democratic controlled congress cant decide which color to paint the restrooms. The House and the Senate make the laws and have the power to change things but even with majority controls they cant agree on where to spend the pork ! Obama and Biden no change just more spending and more taxes to pay for it. "

excuseme wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:04 PM:

" Ok...We have all had some fun at the expense of the other party. But this is serious. My 401K lost over $5 K in the last few days and we need to put a stop to the current fiscal policies of the Bush Admin. We allowed P Gramm and W Gramm to deregulate the energy industry and the financial industry and look where we are. We had a failed Savings and Loan debacle under Bush Sr and now we have a failed Banking/Mortgage debacle under George Jr. We can't continue this way. Who is the candidate of change? "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 16, 2008 6:50 PM:

" Hey ArtsyDodger: Bush can be blamed because his economic policies have failed miserably. Yes, he had an economic policy which was implemented and it failed, big time. What is jaw dropping, is that McDumb likes these failed policies so much...that he wants to re-install them (I know...crazy right). Trickle down just doesn't work (re: the last 8 yrs). The republicant controlled congress failed to regulate the lending industry because Bush wanted it that way. What happens next is a nation of lenders throwing money out the door in hopes that people would bight off more than they could chew. Such a mess....thanks a lot republicants. Thank goodness Obama will give a tax break to the middle class, insert a rigorous regulatory system which will prevent drunken lending thereby restoring national and worldwide confidence in our economy. Gosh, I still am not sure if I am going to vote for Obama though....if he had just been the mayor of a Lexington, been a hockey dad and told the same lame joke day after day after day after day after day. "

Santo Fan wrote on Sep 16, 2008 6:38 PM:

" Oh, come on. This article is not true, just ask the McDumb campaign. John McDumb told us that the fundamentals of our economy are strong. McDumb's campaign told us that we are a nation of whiners and that we are in a mental recession. Seriously....do you people not trust the McDumb campaign? "

excuseme wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:49 PM:

" While you are looking up Phil Gramm...Mc's adivsor that called you whiners...check his wife:
Gramm held several positions in the Reagan Administration, including heading the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from 1988 to 1993. After a lobbying campaign from Enron, the CFTC exempted it from regulation in trading of energy derivatives. Subsequently, Gramm resigned from the CFTC and took a seat on the Enron Board of Directors and served on its Audit Committee. While on the board of directors she received donations from Enron to support the Mercatus Center.

After the Enron scandal, Gramm and the other directors of the energy company were named in several investor lawsuits, many of which have been settled. In particular, Gramm and other Enron directors agreed to an $168 million dollar settlement in a suit led by the University of California. As part of that settlement, the directors agreed to collectively pay $13 million to settle claims of insider trading. The remainder of the settlement was to be paid by insurance. "

The Artful Dodger wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:44 PM:

" Yes, there are greedy and shady lenders out there. There is also little reason to be taken by them. Lenders who knowingly make loans to those who are known to be bad risks are just as much at fault as those who took out the loans. Then there are those whose grasp exceeds their reach. Bought more than they could pay for and now the chickens have come home to roost. But fear not dear friend-your uncle with the deep pockets will make things all better for you real soon. Don’t you know? This is the land of milk and honey! "

The Artful Dodger wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:41 PM:

" My Dear Ummmm-First off, you may want to re-read my post. I never once mentioned stupid. Yes I have experienced hard times. Unfortunately they were mostly of my own making. But having twisted my ankle in a small pothole has afforded me the experience of dodging the large craters that a lot of our populace now find themselves in. While it is true that there does exist circumstances that put many in severe financial straights (major medical catastrophe, etc), the vast majority of the foreclosures are due to people who elected a balloon interest arrangement. It is a plain and simple fact-if you borrow more money than you can afford to pay back-it is not going to end well. If you don't take the time to read and understand what you are signing, it is not going to end well. But we have become a nation of moaners. People no longer get themselves out of that pothole. They just lay there and moan and expect somebody else to pick them up and kiss their boo-boo. CONT- "

airhead wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:17 PM:

" to Super J: Were they fans of Mussolini. Sorry most don't even have a clue who he was. No arguments so you have to stick to namecalling? As usual with you guys. YOu can't stand on principle or argument so you have to forward lying, smearing emails and call both Obama and his supporters names. Have you thought for a moment about what will happen if your guy and gal gets elected. Are you hoping the other side has a wall of constant complaints. So you can focus on that instead of McCain. You give that guy a mike and a stage by himself and he can't help but make a big fool of himself. Every time. Do you think that will stop if he is elected? No it won't. He will just be the only one doing it so it can really get focused on. "

airhead wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:11 PM:

" to al: Okay some want him to cut taxes and you say he won't. So that will keep some on the left happy and some on the right too. The ones supporting him on the left won't care quite as much so they can still vote for him along with the ones on the right who don't want to cut taxes except for the rich. Better chance of winning that way. For years the GOP has been pushing tax cuts for big corporations and rich people because they have a right to their money. Well they do but do they have a right to the tax cuts? Do you think for one minute that all the money from the tax cuts have been used to start new businesses etc. or has it just helped them get richer? Before you hop in and talk about all the revenue check the tv. It didn't work. We need to do something different. And McCain clearly won't. Although maybe he will cause he has no clue what is happening now. Seriously how can that be? "

illini boy wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:00 PM:

" Obama does not know anything about economics or has ever been in a position to gain insight on the subject in his entire life or has ever done one thing to improve economics. Why is he refusing to release the following and what is afraid that we will find if he does?
#1 Your Occidental College records
#2 Your Columbia College records
#3 Your Columbia Thesis paper
#4 Your Harvard College records
#5 Your Selective Service Registration
#6 Your medical records
#7 Your Illinois State Senate records
#8 Your Illinois State Senate schedule
#9 Your Law practice client list
#10 A Certified Copy of your original Birth certificate
#11 Your embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth
#12 Your Harvard Law Review articles that were published
#13 Your University of Chicago scholarly articles
#14 Your Record of baptism
Think before you vote! "

Cthulhu wrote on Sep 16, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Pangloss, you forgot "illegally signed up ineligible voters through Acorn." "

Cthulhu wrote on Sep 16, 2008 4:14 PM:

" And meanwhile we are STILL not in a recession. And the market continues to remain solid.

Only the ill-informed or gullible would believe otherwise. "

uncletom wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:53 PM:

" I am reading many on here touting Obama's plan as socialism? I would like to know what they are doing online when they are either at work, or sitting at home on a social program drawing a check? They are committing employee misconduct by abusing their working privileges or they are on welfare. Which is it? "

Meh wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:49 PM:

" Too bad former Sen Gramm ("Nation of whiners") is one of McCain's advisors and an architect of the current economic problems. "

T wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:47 PM:

" Well the only thing I've heard from the lipstick queen is start drilling!!!! What you think is going to happen. We'll drill in the ANWAR and we'll be right back to the same problem we have now. I don't here one thing coming from the Rep party as far as conservation. You wonder why the Auto industry is in trouble? It's because they were not prepared to build cars that got high gas mileage. We kept building Trucks SUV and Vans. McCain Palin have no clue whats going on, but then again either do the Dems. Stop voting for the party and start voting for the person. If you really think McCain Palin will change Washington I got some swamp land for sale!!! "

Super J wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:46 PM:

" So Mr. Obama invokes FDR and Harry Truman...and another piece of the puzzle is revealed.

Benito Mussolini would be thrilled. "

Dr.Orangutan Chief Cardiologist Miller Park Zoo wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:41 PM:

" " Proponents of nuclear energy that nuclear power is a sustainable energy source that reduces carbon emissions and increases energy security by decreasing dependence on foreign oil.
A Lead Pig Plastic shelled lead storage containers for radioactive material, known in the industry as 'Pigs', The internal container is a solid cast lead container fabricated for nuclear material containment. Safely store your uranium ore, radioactive Isotopes, and other radioactive samples. The plastic shell protects you from physically touching lead, which is a toxic metal " "

Dr.Orangutan Chief Cardiologist Miller Park Zoo wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:20 PM:

" lipstick? I don't need no stinking lipstick!!!! "

iknowit wrote on Sep 16, 2008 1:58 PM:

" Socialism is not the answer, Barack. Keep blabbing and pointing fingers, but your wealth distribution plan will hurt this economy way worse than anything we've seen to this point. "

gad wrote on Sep 16, 2008 12:44 PM:

" everyone knows obama's orders are not to be such a pantywaist. but his "screaming fire in a crowded theatre" doesn't make him look like a fighter or a tough man. just someone who will throw anyone anything under the bus to get what his ego needs. "

Ummmm wrote on Sep 16, 2008 12:07 PM:

" So dodger, you've never had a time in your life where things went wrong? I'm impressed and amazed. Do you know all of the people who've had issues with bankruptcy or loss of their homes? Not everyone is stupid as you put it, there may be extenuating circumstances that you may not know about and therefore cannot speak about with any accuracy. Don't believe everything you read. "

Pangloss wrote on Sep 16, 2008 12:03 PM:

" I love that Internet tough guys like albundy can call Obama "an empty suit." I'm sure that albundy's resume would knock our socks off-- it has to be better than running Harvard Law Review for a year, teaching Constitutional Law at University of Chicago Law School for a decade, eight years in the Illinois state Senate, four years in the U.S. Senate, two best-selling books, etc.-- otherwise that would mean that albundy is less than an empty suit. Maybe an empty clown suit? "

uncletom wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Go look at your financial statements you will see it's all in your mind. "

ofc313 wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:27 AM:

" Artful dodger ........ AMEN. We can not afford the partisanship that has led us here. no one side can agree only to blame. Both parties are to blame as well as the lenders and the borrowers ! We have come victim to our own prosperity, We all want a bigger home, Bigger newer car and all the fluff to go with it. I know I have and I am working to dig out myself ! Lets look at the issues, The voting records and find a solution not just point fingers at one party or person. Look in the mirror and say to yourself I want to make a change "

voa wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:11 AM:

" albundy54: We're all ears. What do you suggest we do to help the ecomony ol' wise one? "

pseudo-intellectual wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:07 AM:

" This is what drives me CRAZY about our politics. I don't know anything anymore about our economy, but whether the fundamentals are strong or weak, it is actually in Obama's and the Democrats' best interests for the economy to utterly collapse between now and November! By claiming the fundamentals are awful, is BO aware he could start another wave of panic selling? To me it shows he cares more about winning this election than the suffering middle class. He doesn't know anyway. He'd better be careful- if things get any worse, there might not be much left come 1/20/2009. "

The Artful Dodger wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:05 AM:

" Wow-and now Bush is responsible for this too...Amazing! Hey people, the president does not make laws, he signs bill sent to him from congress into laws. You wanna blame someone? Blame those who borrowed more than they could afford to pay back, blame those who did not read and/or understand the contract they were signing, blame those with dollar signs in their eyes who took advantage of the situation, blame those politicians who-time after time-tell the populace "fear not my children, we will take care of you". We did not have a problem of this proportion until people figured out it was easier to hold your hand out than to take responsibility for their actions. This has nothing to do with taxes or tax breaks, this is about institutions making loans to people who did not have the means to pay them back. So tell me, how do you legislate stupidity? "

lizzie wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:04 AM:

" I haven't heard anything regarding what either candidate is going to do regarding the economy. I am disappointed in both parties as of right now, 9/16/2008 at 11:03 a.m.

All I've heard from Obama is how McCain isn't doing anything. Hello?? What are you planning on doing?

All I've heard from McCain is that Wall Street needs to be regulated - a virtually impossible task. Hello?? Any other ideas?? One that might work?

Yep. I'm disgusted with both parties. "

albundy54 wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:46 AM:

" To Growing up 70s, I suppose your definition of getting back to issues is attack the opposition to keep from revealing you have no alternative plans yourself. Good logic 70s, that is what is going to cost you libs the election. You have no ideas just attack the current regime. People are smarter this time around and are not buying into the Barry empty suit. Biden sure has been trumped though hasn't he? "

albundy54 wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:44 AM:

" VOA what planet are your from? I have been around this earth for well over 50 years and those years have not one time seen a democratic president cut taxes. You better leave the Keith Olberman Kool-Aid alone before you actually start believing Barry and Biden are going to cut anyones taxes, except for their own; oh thats rights democrats like Charlie Rangle just don't report income to pay taxes do they? "

dwarf wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:44 AM:

" I'll also note that, at this point, it's probably a good thing Clinton didn't get the nomination. While she is certainly not her husband and is not responsible for anything he passed under his term, there's still some problems. (1) NAFTA is going to take a beating, and would have been hit hard. (2) Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act into law. We could argue about who's got more blame, but you can't lay the entire blame for this current crisis on any one party.

What *is* clear is that things need to get shaken up. I mean, it'd be insane to continue to allow the richest 0.01% of Americans to continue speculating and privatizing profit, while being allowed to pass their losses on to the American tax-paying public. Deregulation was a huge part of getting us into the mess we're in today. The solution is likely not *further* deregulation. "

dwarf wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:35 AM:

" It's kinda funny that McCain's now-former chief financial adviser, Phil Gramm, was the head legislator on the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act. While it's certainly not the only thing that led to our current crisis, it's up there among the major contributory causes.

I mean, really, when you let banks speculate with money from savings accounts, while providing a means to pass big losses off to the taxpayers... Well, it creates one heck of a moral hazard. "

growingup 70's wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:14 AM:

" FINALLY we are back on the issues!! It's about time people start realizing the mess that GW and company got this country into. Greed, reckless spending, reckless borrowing. "

ktlin wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:06 AM:

" Come on. High level commission? Why not ask Phil Graham and the many other lobbyists sitting right in his campaign. They no perfectly what is going on. I love it when McCain tries to go it alone. It never fails. He makes goofs and gaffes constantly. And sometimes the gaffes are just replaced by worst gaffes. The fundimentals of our economy are strong. Woops. The fundimentals which are our workers are strong. What about the fundimentals like our banks and our gas prices. Those are pretty fundimental John. And inquiring minds want to know. How did choosing Sarah Palin cause him to go up in the polls regarding the economy and his leadership. Is someone trying to mess with our minds?Or have some simply lost theirs. "

Pangloss wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:05 AM:

" McCain's economic plan: Quit whining and whistle a happy tune, you lazy whiners. "

rundmc wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:57 AM:

" Bush has been upbeat about the economy for the past four years. This guy isn't anything but the same as we've had. It's getting really old. As long as he's got his seven houses, everything is perfect. Maybe potential Vice President Palin would like to talk about her ideas for the economy. Oops!....that right, she doesn't want to talk to anybody about anything. "

voa wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Looks like we're in a pickle here folks. On one hand you've got the Bush/MacCain policies or keeping taxes lower for the rich in hopes that they will trickle some down to the blue-collar boys, and/or add jobs and create growth with the extra cash. Apparently that isn't working. On the other hand, you've got Obama/Biden thinking that a tax cut for the middle class will help. Isn't this pretty much what the stimulus check deal was all about? We went right out and spent it on products made in other countries. And now, 4-6 months later, you can see that it didn't save or stimulate the economy.

Is there anyone out there with any other ideas on how to crank it up? "
Add your own comments

Please read the rules before posting comments.

You must be logged in to leave comments.
If you don't have a member ID, please register.

*Member ID:
*Password:
Remember login?
(requires cookies)
  Forgot Your Password?
 
Lee Enterprises Customer Service | 301 W. Washington St., PO Box 2907, Bloomington, IL 61701-2907 | Ph. 309-829-9000 | 800-747-7323
Copyright © 2008, Pantagraph Publishing Co. and Lee Enterprises. All rights reserved. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy