Pantagraph.com | News | Video: Palin once blessed to be free from 'witchcraft'

Note: All views and opinions expressed in reader comments are solely those of the individual submitting the comment, and not those of the Pantagraph or its staff.

DK61727 wrote on Oct 10, 2008 5:21 PM:

" "let's be reasonable": "Pretty much common sense stuff, like you do with your own checkbook. Don't count on the republican to have much sense though. They never pay the bills, borrow, and smile while passing the bill on to future generations. "

I'm neither a Republican or Democrat. I'm a Conservative. So, rest assured, you haven't offended me. You should consider all the administrations (Democrat and Republican) in the past 50 years and tell me which one had a lower National Debt at the end of their administration than they had when they entered office.

Clinton? Naw, America's National Debt the day Clinton left office was in excess of 130% of the National Debt the day he entered office. Does that make you feel all warm and tingly knowing your hero added heavily to this nation's National Debt debt? Oh, and Clinton smiled all the time, or didn't you notice? "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 10, 2008 4:19 PM:

" 4. "Balance taxation policies with needed revenue streams so you don't borrow billions from China."

Better yet, I say: keep taxes low and expenditures even lower.

Now, what is it with you and China? What on earth is wrong with China buying America's debt? Debt AIN'T equity, you know? U.S. Dollars held by China to buy our debt are every bit as good as the USDs you have in your wallet!

Here is a list, possibly a little surprising, of SOME of the foreign countries holding our debt (with parenthetical amounts in $billions held):

Japan (593.4)
China, Mainland (518.7)
United Kingdom (290.8)
Oil Exporters (173.9)
Brazil (148.4)
Caribbean Banking Centers (133.5)
Luxembourg (75.8)
Russia (74.1)
Hong Kong (60.6)
Mexico (36.0)
Grand Total........(2,676.4) "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 10, 2008 3:47 PM:

" 3. "Don't borrow from the social security fund to pay other government expenses."

Not as ugly as it sounds. What difference does it really make where our government borrows U.S. dollars? Dollars are fungible, you know; issued by the U.S. Treasury. The U.S. Government borrows money from various individuals, businesses, states, municipalities and foreign countries, among others..........and the U.S. Govt. also borrows money from the SS trust funds. What's the problem?

Currently, U.S. Govt. special issue, liquid, interest yielding, bonds are held as assets in our SS trust funds for future needs and use, and an identical amount is a liability to the U.S. Government. About $2.2 trillion is owed by the U.S. Govt. to the SS trust funds, and that amount is a component of our total National Debt. That means a lot of our country's national debt is held by the SS trust funds. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 10, 2008 12:11 PM:

" 2. Big Corporations. If you increase income taxes on corporations, expect corporations to increase product prices to offset profit losses (net income). Therefore, customers (you, me) are the ones who actually pay the increase in income taxes when we buy the products. Increases in income taxes is a tax increase on all customers, wealthy or not.

Income tax breaks for the wealthy has empirically, consistently resulted in INCREASED government revenues, NOT LESS. John Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush all incorporated tax breaks into their fiscal policies and all achieved similar results. Pursuant to the Bush tax cut, the wealthy ended up paying more in nominal tax dollars and also a higher percentage of total revenues. Why? Because taxpayers were allowed to keep a marginally larger percent of their profits than before the tax cut, which motivated them to increase production and contribute to an increase our Gross Domestic Product (our real tax base) . "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 10, 2008 11:40 AM:

" "let's be reasonable", thank you. I asked you for solutions and you responded, strongly. Allow me to analyze them:

1. Social Security (OADSI) is an unfunded mandate supported exclusively by PAYROLL TAXES of active, current workers; SS is a program imposed by law; costs (payments) absolutely have to be paid for fully, each and every month by current workers only. The measured unfunded obligation for future payments by workers to SS is $13.6 trillion; that's the SS costs (payouts to retired workers) projected in the foreseeable future.

On the other hand, the Iraq War is a discretionary budget item supported by INCOME TAXES......NOT PAYROLL TAXES. If we stop the war, today, funds appropriated for the Iraq War can not be re-appropriated for SS use. At best we can reduce deficits and reduce increases to the national debt, but we can't pour income tax revenues into SS. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 10, 2008 1:48 AM:

" How do we keep SS alive, well, and up-to-date in its present form without raising payroll taxes?

You can start by:
1. Don't pour 10 billion a mo. into Iraq.
2. Lower the deficit by not passing tax breaks for wealthy individuals and big corporations.
3. Don't borrow from the social security fund to pay other government expenses.
4. Balance taxation policies with needed revenue streams so you don't borrow billions from China.
Pretty much common sense stuff, like you do with your own checkbook. Don't count on the republican to have much sense though. They never pay the bills, borrow, and smile while passing the bill on to future generations. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 10, 2008 1:27 AM:

" excuseme wrote on Oct 9, 2008 9:16 PM: " But..BUt...BUt...I'm wealthy. My 401K has skyrocketed under Bush!....umm...maybe not...I just got my quarterly statement:( "

I know what you mean. The same occurred sometime around April 2000 (and subsequently) when the NASDAQ set all-time loss records in American history, pursuant to the dot.com bubble bursting. I lost what amounted (for me) to be a ton of money. But, the lost money all eventually found its way back home, plus more, and so will yours.

I could have blamed Clinton for the largest crash in history because he was President at the time. But, I didn't.

Clinton, like most Presidents, actually have very little to do with either bull or bear markets. So, enjoy buying the same stocks you have been buying all along, but now at their new, discounted prices. "

excuseme wrote on Oct 9, 2008 9:16 PM:

" But..BUt...BUt...I'm wealthy. My 401K has skyrocketed under Bush!....umm...maybe not...I just got my quarterly statement:( "

let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:14 PM:

" DK: If folks were as bright as you we would all not have any money. As my old KY cousin said, if the republicans had been in power all our lives, none of us would have any money. And look, they, Georgie, Dick, and his cronies, managed to do it in just 7 years--bankrupt the economy. You must be proud of those greedy pig republicans!

Thank God for bright leaders like Obama. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:52 PM:

" "let's be reasonable" wrote on Oct 7, 2008 6:38 PM: "McCain plans to raise two very important taxes, social security and also tax health benefits."

"let's be reasonable" American citizens have experienced DOZENS OF PAYROLL TAX INCREASES since 1939 to keep this New Deal Social Security monster gasping. How do we keep SS alive, well, and up-to-date in its present form without raising payroll taxes?

I have always been opposed to untaxed employee benefits of any sort, especially employer-paid health benefits. After all, we should pay income taxes on anything of value our employer gives us as part of our overall employment compensation. We can use the tax revenue generated to help subsidize health insurance premiums of those without insurance.

And, as you know, I am a staunch Conservative. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 3:07 PM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 7, 2008 6:38 PM: "The economy is near a financial nuclear meltdown (may still happen)."

You failed to mention it was the Bush White House that supported Dem. Senate leader Reid, and Dem. House leader Pelosi who formulated an $800 billion plan to bail-out commercial banks, insurance companies and investment firms.

You forgot, but I didn't, that it was the Conservative Republicans in the House that refused to approve the plan as it was written, as well as later upon the first re-write of the plan. You failed to mention that Obama and McCain both heavily advocated the bailout. You failed to mention it was Obama advisors Raines, Gorelick and Johnson who earned more than $130 million when they headed up Fannie Mae, one of the corporations bailed-out that caused this "meltdown". "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 12:58 PM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:05 AM: " DK61727, You easily forget that the President proposes the budget and can veto spending bills.

Uh huh. Just like Reagan vetoed a Congressional appropriations bill during September 1982 (FY 1983 Budget). What happened then? Congress OVERRODE the Reagan veto! If that is not evidence enough that the Congress ULTIMATELY CONTROLS the budget AND DEBT, then read Article 1, Section. 8 of the Constitution of the United States, which states (in part):

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; *To borrow Money on the credit of the United States*; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 12:19 PM:

" The real truth is Obama may well have been only eight/nine years old when Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn, were members of the "Weather Underground" and bombed the New York City police headquarters in 1970, nine/10 years old when they bombed the U.S. Capitol Building in 1971 and 10/11 years old when they bombed the Pentagon in 1972.

BTW, Ayers boasted of those prior bombings in September 2001 in an interview with the New York Times-----and proudly added "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough"

Now we are learning Ayers' wife and Obama's wife were associates at the same law firm in Chicago in late 1980s and early 1990s; the two couples lived in the same neighborhood and Obama and Ayers served TOGETHER on at least two community boards of directors. (to be continued) "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 12:17 PM:

" (Continued) About 1995 Ayers held a "coffee" in his home for Obama where Obama announced the launching of his political career. Surely, it has to be clear to any discerning person that Obama and Ayers have more than a passing relationship; it is a matter of public record that Ayers IS STILL NOT REPENTENT for his prior terrorist tactics.

Asked whether Ayers would do it again, he answers, “I don’t want to discount the possibility.” READ THAT QUOTE AGAIN, FOLKS!

By the 1980s and 1990s Obama just had to know Ayers was a known seditionist/terrorist/bomber who had a history of extreme violence.

Add this to Obama's adamant refusal to wear a U.S. flag pin on his lapel, and his refusual to respect the "Pledge of Allegiance" and his 20-year relationship with Jeremiah (Go*dam the U.S. of KKK America) Wright that there is a definite and substantial pattern of anti-Americanism in Obama's life. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:05 AM:

" DK61727

You easily forget that the President proposes the budget and can veto spending bills. Common sense shows that Bush should not have pushed for the tax cuts for the wealthy. He did not show wisdom in balancing taxation policies with revenue. Would you rather pay for the Iraq war by borrowing from China or bringing in enough government revenue to pay for the war? Clinton balanced the budget and had four consecutive surpluses. Bush made very poor economic decisions. LOL in the Obama landslide this Nov. which will kick many of the republican fiscally irresponsible greedy pigs out of Washington. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:53 AM:

" let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 7, 2008 6:38 PM: "Bush has the country in so much debt that the economy is totally bonkers."
Before we can find a solution to our problems, we MUST know and accept the truth. Truth is Bush inherited a recession in January 2001. That recession was later that year steepened and lengthened by 9/11/2001. During a recession, the country goes deeper into debt.......it has happened to every President of the U.S.A. who has been in office as far back as the 1960s, at least. Yes, our country even went further into debt during the Clinton Admistration........our national debt INCREASED by more than 30% under the Clinton Administration.

DEBT INCREASES ARE ATTRIBUTABLE TO CONGRESS, NOT THE PRESIDENT. Even the current Democrat Congress has SUBSTANTIALLY increased our national debt since Jan 2007 and it projects (per Pelosi) INCREASES UNTIL AT LEAST 2012. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 8, 2008 5:47 PM:

" Obama was like 8 years old when he supposedly associated with Ayers. So he is a radical now!! Wow. It is nuts to suggest he is a radical or not patriotic. You must be listening to Rush Limcheese and his fiction too much. American have been fooled for 8 years by the morally bankrupt republicans. Not this time. LOL in November when Senator Obama wins in a landslide. "

answerman wrote on Oct 8, 2008 5:12 PM:

" The Lake of Fire is reserved for all Liars, welcome Sarah. Book of Revelations "

tatbtime wrote on Oct 8, 2008 2:49 PM:

" This is just more hateful dirt dug up. Wake up people, we need leaders, not smoothies (Obama--NOT) What about the issues? At least we know she's not Muslim. "

Common Sense Gal wrote on Oct 8, 2008 2:18 PM:

" To: Let's Be Reasonable
Your last line, being the PS, is entirely false. Do your research with the recent release of the documents from the University of Illinois where Ayers (he is a terrorist, by the way, and an unrepentant one) had received an educational grant of millions of dollars and he hired Obama to be incharge of the distribution of this money. Guess what? None of it went to schools, but went to radical community groups such as ACORN. By working with Ayers, I would say that is quite an association with a terrorist. I get so tired of seeing people say and write lies, especially in this time of electioneering. That says a lot about their character. "Just a guy in the neighborhood"??, right and a lie. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Oct 7, 2008 6:38 PM:

" Here are some truths for Follow the Crap:
Bush has the country in so much debt that the economy is totally bonkers.
The economy is near a financial nuclear meltdown (may still happen).
The Iraq war has been a ridiculous drain on the economy, a drain we can't afford.
McCain does not have the experience on the even handed temperament to be president.
McCain plans to raise two very important taxes, social security and also tax health benefits.
Obama plans to lower taxes for 95% of Americans.
McCain plans to lower taxes ONLY for the very wealthy.
The Nov. election will be a democratic landslide. Americans are sick of republican disasternomics and really bad decision making in Washington.
PS Obama is a patriot. He NEVER associated with terrorists. Stop telling lies. "

110100100 wrote on Oct 7, 2008 11:55 AM:

" DK61727 - I already stated on Oct 2, 2008 6:55 that I will concede that I should say "many" of Jesus's healings, not "most" (as most implies majority). Your rebuttal was that an exaggeration is tantamount to a lie. So I demonstrated that the Bible seems to make little distinction between healings and exorcisms, or at least couples them in the same category. The symptoms described are no different than symptoms we see today, but the diagnosis has obviously changed, with the exception of, say, Pentecosts. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 7, 2008 11:07 AM:

" "110100100" You refuse to prove what you said on 09/28 at 6:09 P.M., to wit: """Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms.""""

On the one hand you (correctly) observed that Jesus performed exorcisms. On the other hand you correctly observed that Jesus perfomed healings..........but then you incorrectly observed that "Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms".

Instead of offering evidence of exorcisms by specific, unique person, place or date (such as Mary Magdalene, or The Healing of Two Demon-possessed Men at Gadarenes (Gerasenes, or an exorcism that took place on a Sabbath, you have been proffering non-specific, non-quantifiable exorcisms ("such as he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them", or "And demons also came out from many".......there are no persons named, no places mentioned and no specifice time. In other words you can't prove a specific number of exorcisms.

You have continually failed to PROVE your statement, to wit; """MOST of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms."""" "

pac wrote on Oct 7, 2008 10:24 AM:

" well I've got to agree with rational humanist.. I don't think she was too worried about being affected by witchcraft, and I also believe she had no idea that he was going to say what he did, however promoting such beliefs floors me.. When I say such beliefs I am speaking of the casting out of demons/spirits and the things of that nature.. Unfortunetely too many people(good people) in this country are not getting the help they need because these practices are still taking place and thats fine if people would rather wait for their miracle and be cured or i.e. protected from these notions that demons, spirits, and withces or after them or that some cruse has been placed on them. What this does is slow down help for the truely afflicted and weak... We wouldn't wait too long after a prayer or a laying on of hands to see a doctor if it was a bone that was broken... "

110100100 wrote on Oct 7, 2008 6:21 AM:

" answerman - Eh, I'm pretty sure the Greeks, Romans, and Byzantines would be considered European empires. "

answerman wrote on Oct 6, 2008 7:53 PM:

" 2 things

1st. That Kenyan Pastor related to Obama's dad?

2nd. The many witnesses of the days Christ's ministry attest to their truth. And even though we scoff at Ancient man's intelligence to discern the truth, our alleged intellectual superiority is only in a few percent of the population.

The foundation of our Knowledge is centered in Ancient Greece, Judaism, Ancient Egypt, China, Rome, Byzantine, Medes, Persia and etc..

Arab numerals are Arab. If any of you believe that knowledge is 'acting white' notice any Ancient Europeans on that list? Even the Germanic tribes didn't have an alphabet till 600 A.D. "

Rational Humanist wrote on Oct 6, 2008 6:20 PM:

" Palin was "freed from witchcraft" because nobody with any real sense thinks she could have suffered from it to begin with. She can and does, however, suffer from other, more real and more practical problems.

She chooses to believe that the American voter is too stupid to see that she does not make the cut for high office. This, of course, makes her the "stupid" one in the eyes of many Americans. Now, as a well-known comedian has said - "You can't fix stupid." Thus, Palin has to pray for the trivial things in her world that can be repaired by resorting to superstition. "

gunsmonkey wrote on Oct 6, 2008 5:31 PM:

" WOW ummm ya WOW. Do you folks even realize they have the exact same views on almost anything you put before them, they just say it a little different to confuse your little ears. Who cares what she does in her church or any church for that matter, means nothing. What matters is what you do outside of church, ya know, the real world. God must be so sad right now. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Oct 6, 2008 12:55 PM:

" annie oakley

He can't produce a real birth certificate because that would disqualify him to run for President.

He won't release anything from his college days because people would know the true Obama and the only votes he would get is his own, his wife's and all his terrorists friends!

But even if they did release it people are so dumb and blind they would still claim it isn't true and just people trying to bash Obama so people won't vote for him.

People are acting like this is a game show and we are merely giving away a prize or something. It is so sad to see how many foolish people that we really have in this country willing to close their eyes to the truth even when it is put right smack in front of their faces! Just amazing! They would rather risk their country than look at the truth! Very sad indeed! "

2read wrote on Oct 6, 2008 11:18 AM:

" To 110100100:

Sure sounds like you know a lot about the Bible. Or maybe just the Da Vinci Code. (You know those are different books, right?) "

annie oakley wrote on Oct 6, 2008 7:51 AM:

" typical democrat crap. let's see here. obama is tied to rezko, ayers, frank raines, i.e. fannie mae and freddie mac but the news media isn't talking about all these criminals that obama has ties to. but when it comes to palin and her church it is open season. hmmmm let's see here. blago and obama have ties to rezko and that indictment is being stuck under a rug until after the elections. obama won't even produce his birth certificate. why not? something to hide? come on people, he isn't really the messiah. "

abramj wrote on Oct 5, 2008 8:48 PM:

" All said and done, Palin's being prayed over by this guy is a complete non-issue. It won't cost the McCane-Palin ticket a single vote. Obama's pastor/friend Wright is a bonified issue and probably has cost Obama some votes, but I don't think most people realize that Obama purposely tries to bridge the gap with people who hate America so he has a chance of communicating with them. It's a good strategy if we can trust Obama in that role, but some people won't trust him and it will cost him some votes. Obama will win the presidential election; I surprised it has gotten as close as it has, but fickle America will start to hate him just like they came to hate Bush because Obama will face demographic problems that are beyond any president to control. Obama's a good person who will do his best but will make mistakes. Maybe someone should pray for him too.

"Real haters don't even like family values." "

110100100 wrote on Oct 5, 2008 6:16 PM:

" DK61727 - Nope. Luke 4:40-41 "And when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. And demons also came out from many, crying out, and saying, Thou art the Son of God. And rebuking them, he suffered them not to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ." I already posted this particular verse, but this is Jesus doing mass healings and exorcisms. It is not one person with many demons.

And in Luke 13:31-32 Jesus says how he'll keep up his charade of healings and exorcisms. In that very hour there came certain Pharisees, saying to him, Get thee out, and go hence: for Herod would fain kill thee. And he said unto them, Go and say to that fox, Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I am perfected. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 5, 2008 5:18 PM:

" "110100100", let's start all over.

Are you going to furnish a specific book, chapter and verse of every scripture that specifies a particular exorcism by Jesus, or not? It is NOT that difficult or time consuming. It can be researched and the scripture identified in about 30 minutes; nothing compared to the overall time, hours upon hours, you have spent ridiculing Christians.

I am prepared to furnish a specific book, chapter and verse of every scripture that specifies a particular healing that clearly does not involve an exorcism, but, instead, involves some physical malady such as fever, Leprosy and related skin diseases, long-term bleeding, withered hands, Dropsy, deafness, blindness and paralysis. (To be continued) "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 5, 2008 5:17 PM:

" (continued) Now, on one occasion Jesus cast out seven unclean spirits from ONE person. On another occasion Jeus cast out what is believed to be 1,000 spirits (named Legion) from ONE person. Those exorcisms involve only two persons, taking place on only TWO occasions, not 1,007 exorcisms.

Make sure you do not offer redundant information, such as an exorcism that is described in Mark, then don't also offer that same exorcism described again in Luke, then again in Matthew, then again in John and Acts, etc.

As I have repeatedly said, you will discover only about four specifically identifiable, separate acts of Jesus casting out spirits (demons). Yes, other, non-specific scripture may make reference to "many" casting out of demons; just as non-specific scriptures also describe "many" healings, so those scriptures are not helpful in proving our disagreement. (To be continued) "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 5, 2008 5:16 PM:

" (continued) When we are all finished, I will have proven to you that **Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were NOT demonic exorcisms** contrary to what you have been claiming.

Once we have established that, then I have other matters, other statements, to take-up with you.

Now, please, no more toying around by you, get on with business. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 5, 2008 4:16 PM:

" excuseme wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:36 PM: " Now that we have cast out the demons, anyone here speak in tongues? Can you translate what Palin is talking about when she opens her mouth? "

I could translate for you, but it wouldn't do any good...........you haven't received the miracle of a brain with which to collate and analyze the data. "

alexp wrote on Oct 5, 2008 9:09 AM:

" Burn the witches, burn the witches!

Good grief. Witches now? This is too much for this Joe six-pack to take anymore. "

RMH wrote on Oct 4, 2008 4:20 PM:

" Let's see. Palin has a guest Bishop come to her her church who blessed her and prayed to keep her safe from witchcraft. Obama's family pastor for 20 years travels with and gives awards to Louis Farrakhan (Nation of Islam), hates America ("US of KKK-A"), and is racist ("Hillary Clinton ain't never been called a [n-word]"). Wow, Palin sure is a nut case. "

110100100 wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:34 PM:

" DK61727 - I've already schooled you son. If you don't believe the ridiculous passages I've posted actually came from the Bible then you should try reading it. The gospels are's much bigger than a sports page, so it shouldn't take more than a few months. It's fun stuff. Jesus even exorcises demons from his wife, Mary Magdalene. Out of nowhere she's possessed and he's back exorcising demons (a whopping 7 demons out of her, even though he himself is dead!) mark 16:9.

How is it there are so many demons back then and we never hear about any now!? Oh wait, the Kenyans probably know where they are. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:58 PM:

" I pledge allegiance to the coming political messiah and to the socialist vision for which he stands. One nation, under Obama, with increasing taxation and diminishing freedom for all. "

excuseme wrote on Oct 3, 2008 5:36 PM:

" Now that we have cast out the demons, anyone here speak in tongues? Can you translate what Palin is talking about when she opens her mouth? "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:08 PM:

" 110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 5:26 PM: " DK61727 – I will concede that neither of us can prove or disprove Jesus's so called miracles to ether's satisfaction. But I will certainly try to humor you with analysis of these so called possessions and exorcisms. Unfortunately, this will require “serial messages” as you put it, or spam as I put it.

Well, "110100100", I can't argue that your writings are more appropriately characterized as "spam".

Pay CLOSE ATTENTION as I am NOW forced to REPEAT my request: I asked you to "list the book, chapter and verse of the subject scripture right here."

Here is how to do that: 1) locate the scripture where Jesus cast out a demon. 2) write down the book, chapter and verse of that scripture. For example write down "Mark 16:9" That's all I asked you to do. And, DON'T submit redundant scripture, REPEATING identical exorcisms.

BTW, asking you to analyze Biblical scripture is like asking a pig in s**t to model a diamond necklace. "

klm wrote on Oct 3, 2008 10:52 AM:

" Pangloss, YOU crack me up! "

jem.97213 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 6:46 PM:

" Ambr1: I canceled when they started running Ann Coulter's garbage. She has the right to say what she wants and I have the right to not have that filth brought into my house. "

110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Matthew and Mark tell of a mute man. Again, the diagnosis is posession. “And as they went forth, behold, there was brought to him a dumb man possessed with a demon. And when the demon was cast out, the dumb man spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.”

(Does this suffice for now? Or shall I continue?) "

110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Again Luke (as well as Matthew and Mark) describes a man who was supposedly possessed. It states that “for a long time he had worn no clothes, and lived not in any house, but in the tombs... and he was kept under guard, and bound with chains and fetters; and breaking the bands asunder, he was driven of the demon into the deserts. ”

Now anyone who has ambled around a major city has seen this character before: the homeless man violently who rants and raves. Today we would call him mentally ill, and anyone who accused him of being posessed with a “Legion of demons” would be considered cruel and insensitive. "

110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 5:26 PM:

" A few verses later Jesus supposedly heals people with a wide variety of sicknesses. “And when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. And demons also came out from many, crying out, and saying, Thou art the Son of God. And rebuking them, he suffered them not to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.”

It is appropriate to note that Jesus is carrying out multiple exorcisms, and that the Bible seems to describe healing and exorcism as one and the same. The Matthew version of the story states “And when even was come, they brought unto him many possessed with demons: and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all that were sick “. Again, we see healing and exorcism are coupled. "

110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 5:26 PM:

" DK61727 – I will concede that neither of us can prove or disprove Jesus's so called miracles to ether's satisfaction. But I will certainly try to humor you with analysis of these so called possessions and exorcisms. Unfortunately, this will require “serial messages” as you put it, or spam as I put it.

In Luke 4, a man, supposedly possessed, questions Jesus saying “Ah! what have we to do with thee, Jesus thou Nazarene? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” Jesus says “Hold thy peace, and come out of him. ” And the demon supposedly leaves. This charade of two men yelling at each other seems to puzzle the audience who say “What is this word? for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out ” "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 3:42 PM:

" 110100100 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 5:30 PM: "Ignorance led people of the time to believe that some illnesses were caused by demons and evil spirits. Jesus played on that ignorance. His miracles were no more impressive than those of say, David Blaine or the Pentacosts who still practice this nonsense; which is to say they were not miracles at all."

"110100100", these statements of yours (above) finally got to the crux of your ultimate argument......that you reject Jesus Christ as the son of God, Lord and Savior to billions of persons, that you claim Jesus did not perform miracles at all, that Jesus performed some form of prestidigitation; finally that Jesus Christ was a fraud, all this according to you.

If you had only begun days ago by stating this was your TRUE point of contention, I wouldn't have wasted my time with you. The deity and miraculous works of Jesus Christ is an issue that neither you nor I can prove to the satisfaction of the other. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:51 PM:

" 110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 6:55 AM: "This text field is far to small to cite the specific verses since there are dozens."

Well, you have two hundred words of space in any single message on this board and there is no limit to the number of serial messages you are allotted. All you have to do is peruse the New Testament, record anecdotal passages where Jesus cast out demons or spirits inhabiting persons, and list the book, chapter and verse of the subject scripture right here.

The reason this is germane? I refuse to allow people like you to get away with making unsustainable criticisms of Christianity through any form of lies, of which exaggeration is one such lie. The essence of your criticism is to disparage the [Biblical] word of God, impeach the testimony of believers in general and ridicule the liturgical convictions of Sarah Palin or this itinerant African minister in specific. "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Oct 2, 2008 12:12 PM:

" OH NO!!! A CHRISTIAN may get into office. Won't someone think of the children?!?!?! "

pixie wrote on Oct 2, 2008 8:52 AM:

" LINDINI- Your post is DEAD ON and thank you for that! You took the words directly out of my mouth... Now if only they would actually read them ! "

the_goat wrote on Oct 2, 2008 7:47 AM:

" Wow... you liberals on here are awefully narrow minded. I find it odd that you guys scream and hollar when someones Secular "rights or beliefs" are infringed on or scrutinized, but when it comes to somoene with religious convictions following their beliefs, then WHOA - watch out! Their a "crackpot". What a bunch of hypocrits.

I'd like the AP to publish a few stories on Biden... or even scrutinize Obama. "

110100100 wrote on Oct 2, 2008 6:55 AM:

" DK61727 - Prove that most of Jesus' healings were demonic exorcisms. Obviously I would start with the Gospels. Mathew, Mark, and Luke, specifically (John leaves out exorcisms, among other things). This text field is far to small to cite the specific verses since there are dozens. If it makes you feel better I will concede that I should say "many" of Jesus's healings, not "most" (as most implies majority). I would say the ratio in the Bible is something close to 1/3, not 1/2+. Certainly not "4 or so" as you put it.

As for "MOST people believ[ing] in spirits and demons," this is certainly news to me. I have never heard of a doctor diagnosing a possession nor do I know of any churches that still perform exorcisms. Even the Catholic church has dropped this practice. I did see the movie Ghostbusters, however that was fiction. "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:31 PM:

" 110100100 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 5:30 PM: " DK61727 - Let me get this straight. You want me to PROVE that the people Jesus supposedly exorcised weren't possessed with demons?

What is your major malfunction? Pay close attention. YOU stated on Sep 28, 2008 6:09 PM: "Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms."

["Just sayin' somethin' don't make it so."............Uncle Famous Prill, "Stars in My Crown"]

Repeat: YOU said, "Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms." Just saying that don't make it so. Therefore, prove it. PROVE that most of Jesus' healings were demonic exorcisms. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Also, YOU clearly and specifically stated: "Obviously today we know that people do not get possessed by demons, and that people never were." Where is your proof for that authoritative statement? Is your proof that YOU do not believe there are demons or can you quote scientific proof demons don't exist?

Do YOU realize that MOST people believe in spirits and demons? "

110100100 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 5:30 PM:

" DK61727 - Let me get this straight. You want me to PROVE that the people Jesus supposedly exorcised weren't possessed with demons? How laughable, yet fitting for this article. No doubt the Kenyan priests who continue the modern day witch hunts demand proof that their victims are not witches before they burn them alive, as was done here. Maybe they use the same tests American Christians used, like throwing them off of cliffs to see if they could fly, or weighing them on a scale with a large Bible. Oh well, they're just doing "God's work" right?

I didn't insinuate that healings are a subclass of exorcisms (nor did a claim to be an expert). Ignorance led people of the time to believe that some illnesses were caused by demons and evil spirits. Jesus played on that ignorance. His miracles were no more impressive than those of say, David Blaine or the Pentacosts who still practice this nonsense; which is to say they were not miracles at all. Perhaps you've labeled the wrong person a “filthy liar.” (Not that I would expect you to be able to translate binary; that would require basic math skills.) "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:22 AM:

" Well, 110000011, you know all the world, me among them, does not accept your premise that healings are a subclass of exorcisms. You claim to be an expert on the matter.........I am not. But, others on the subject of miracles by Jesus, include both healings and exorcisms as two of five subclasses of Jesus' miracles, to wit: cures, exorcisms, controlling nature, power over death and supernatural knowledge.

YOU stated exactly the following: "Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms. Obviously today we know that people do not get possessed by demons, and that people never were. The people Jesus encountered probably had mental problems, epilepsy, or various other afflictions.

YOU STATED IT............YOU PROVE IT!!! Is "110100100" binary code for "filthy liar"? "

DK61727 wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:23 AM:

" Townie here... wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:18 PM: I'm not wasting anymore time with your retorts to any future blogs as I believe I've wasted too much disagreeing with you at present. Buh-bye! "

"Townie here", you are the one who picked a fight with me! Now, before you leave all in a huff and slam the door behind you, get me a beer out of the fridge, will ya?

Just because a person is a victim of a repugnant crime does not mean that I am responsible for paying their bills. Victims themselves, health insurance companies and perpetrators should pay medical bills and corresponding tests.

We, citizens, pay the bills for the law enforcement and the prosecution of the perpetrator, and that's a lot of money. "

Normal Jay wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:27 AM:

" Oh behave,
You speak against "slamming people", say it's "too early to tell", and then say The Cats will "either be insane and spewing revenge or deeply ashamed and embarrassed." All this within five sentences!! You seem to have a very pessimistic attitude towards the election. In neither of your scenarios do you permit for the President to actually do a good job. Presumably if McCain wins it leads to insanity and revenge and an Obama win brings shame and embarassment? Talk about anger, resentment and bitter vitriole. Why couldn't a victory by either candidate actually lead to change and betterment? "

Oh, behave... wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:22 PM:

" The Cats, you think that Wright only ranted once like that? Wow! Of course, Obama didn't attend every Sunday, but I bet he was able to see the anger and resentment in Wright's tone more than once. You are so angry and spewing bitter vitriole that you address several people, attempting to tear each one to shreds with your words. McSame? Isn't that clever? SO overused! You can't talk without slamming people on a personal level. LOL in November, you say? It's simply too early to tell. If he wins, you might be laughing in November...but if he's elected it won't be long before you'll be choking on all the words here that you must eat. Either way the election goes, I feel sorry for you: you'll either be insane and spewing revenge or deeply ashamed and embarrassed. "

Normal Jay wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:40 PM:

" FTC,
'Shame me? ... crew that have been publishing lies about Palin!'
--I never said "shame," just do some research before posting. I'm not part of Obama's "crew". I've never posted lies about Palin.

'BTW, they are not false nor made up. They are in fact written in his books.'
--Again, your definition of fact needs correction. "Quotes" 2, 5 & 6 do not appear in either book. Check the snopes.com entry for further explanation. Regardless, all the "quotes" need proper context to understand their meaning.

'What isn't fact is the context you may percieve them to be.'
-- Unclear, please explain.

'Explain how this is any different than what Obama and crew has done by doing this about Palin?'
--By 'doing this about Palin' do you mean posting videos of her attending her church? Many religious services to an outside observer have the potential to look strange. One person's cult is another's religion, after all. Had McCain selected someone from the known national scene, items such of these would have already been discussed by the electorate, like they have for Biden. By definition, she's news. "

110100100 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 7:37 PM:

" DK61727 - I said the majority of Jesus's healings (not miracles) were exorcisms. This is no bluff. There are dozens of verses describing Jesus's exorcisms. In some cases the afflicted are said to be possessed by multiple demons who Jesus communicates, and sometimes negotiates with. Specific demonic possessions are described as having symptoms of what we recognize today as legitimate medical conditions (such as being mute, having seizures, being bed ridden, ranting wildly, etc). According to Luke, Jesus continued to cast out demons even though Herod wanted to kill him for it. He also is said to have empowered his disciples to do the same. It would be a bluff to say that only 4 or so of his miracles involved demons.

That being said, I agree that Palin may not have known the pastor was going to talk about witches or demons or anything of the sort. But this lunacy is certainly a stable of Kenyan Christianity and certainly seems to be a belief of most Pentecosts. "

Townie here... wrote on Sep 30, 2008 6:18 PM:

" To DK--then be proud of yourself and your "depending on the circumstances" mentality. This is where our parties agree to disagree. I have NO problem supporting the well being of my society and clearly you do. Oh, give the tax payers a break, I'm sure you're muttering. However, rapes can go unsolved, you know...for years!! (Pelo for instance...but you're probably friends). Who then would pay?

I'm not wasting anymore time with your retorts to any future blogs as I believe I've wasted too much disagreeing with you at present. However, just google this issue (no need to throw Palin in there either) and you'll find many hits on state's practices when it comes to this. I easily found that it's not really a common practice to bill the victim as you might think. Here's one little nugget from Montana..."The Department of Justice Office of Victim Services provides free rape kits to healthcare providers".

Buh-bye! "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:54 PM:

" lindini
Normal Jay

Shame me? But HORAY for Obama and crew that have been publishing lies about Palin!

BTW, they are not false nor made up. They are in fact written in his books. What isn't fact is the context you may percieve them to be.

Explain how this is any different than what Obama and crew has done by doing this about Palin? "

Normal Jay wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:01 PM:

" Lindini,
Not ALL of the statements are made up. But for the ones which were in the book, FTC has reprinted them here completely devoid of any context. "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:56 PM:

" Townie here... wrote on Sep 29, 2008 11:18 PM: " To DK--is it "fair" that she made rape victims in the town she mayored pay for their own rape test kits??
classy lady "

It depends upon the circumstances.

The Chief of Police of Wasilla said it was his policy to force the rape victim's health insurance companies and perpetrators of the rape crime to foot these costs and not force the costs onto the taxpayers. That sounds reasonable to me.

It is only recently in the last couple of years that the U.S. Congress passed federal laws covering this issue......in fact, Biden and Obama were co-sponsors of one such a bill, so the law must have been initiated after January 2005 when Obama was sworn in as U.S. Senator. Obviously, since this is a federal law, this practice must have been fairly common practice everywhere in the USA. "

lindini wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:29 AM:

" FollowTheConsitution, those are completely made up. I've read Obama's books, something I'm sure you have not, and these statements couldn't be further from the message he has written. Shame on you and your lies. "

Normal Jay wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:06 AM:

" FTC,
Clearly you haven't read Obama's two books, but rather have pasted comments probably from an email you have received. I have read both of them, along with two from McCain, but all it takes is a quick google search of any one of your quotes to see snopes' debunking of each of them. Do you always blindly forward things to 12 people within three days so you don't end up with 7 years of bad luck? Hopefully someone on your email list has corrected you of this habit of believing everything in your inbox. Please stop trying to "forward" it to those who post here. "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 29, 2008 11:37 PM:

" Has anyone read Obama's two books?

These are excerpts from his book:

From Dreams of My Father:'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dreams of My Father:'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father:'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' "

Townie here... wrote on Sep 29, 2008 11:18 PM:

" To DK--is it "fair" that she made rape victims in the town she mayored pay for their own rape test kits??

classy lady "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:10 PM:

" "cocoa", Conservatives do not cry "unfair". They cry, "so what?".

It is "fair" to point out that Sarah Palin was prayed over by a foreign, itinerant guest-evangelist at a church she attended back in 2002. However, there is no indication that Sarah knew in advance what the evangelist's prayer would be. Regardless, this prayer is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, I am more proud of the lady now, than before, to discover her religious convictions are obviously sincere.
This event reminds us all that Sarah Palin is just one of dozens of aspirants to the White House who have prayed for God's protection and guidance and/or has asked others to pray for him in the performance of their duties. Now, I hope we don't learn that Sarah has committed "lust" in her heart, like we learned from Jimmy Carter when he was interviewd by Playboy Magazine. "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 29, 2008 7:49 PM:

" Greed wrote on Sep 29, 2008 4:54 PM: " Jesus Christ was a liberal. He was crucified by Conservatives.

I can understand how a Liberal might be duped into thinking Jesus was a Liberal........after all, Jesus didn't work, he went around living off the contributions of others; when Jesus needed gold coins, he got them from the mouths of fishes while Liberals confiscate gold from the pockets of the working class. The significant difference is people actually desire to give their money to Jesus; by contrast, Liberals had to pass laws making it illegal for a person not to fork over their hard-earned money.

But, you failed to mention that Jesus actually served a valuable purpose on Earth; Liberals serve absolutely no useful purpose at all.

I wouldn't characterize the Romans who crucified Jesus as "Conservatives." Conservatives wouldn't crucify the son of God, because Jesus is a Conservative's Lord and Savior.

Nope, the Romans were a gnarly group of immoral atheists, multiculturalists, polytheists, and......oh, I just described a Liberal! "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 29, 2008 7:24 PM:

" lizzie wrote on Sep 29, 2008 12:25 PM: BUT, If I want to dance around my year-round decorated shrubbery singing rain dances in dry weather, then I want to without being arrested. "

Why would anyone suddenly discover probable cause for arrest in your long standing recurring common practices? "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 29, 2008 7:19 PM:

" 110100100 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:09 PM: Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms.

Naw, "110100100", you know I'm not going to let you run a bluff.......prove your statement of fact, supra. Jesus performed some 33 recorded miracles, only four (4) or so which involved demons.

Non-demonic miracles attributed to Jesus involved infirmities such as fever, Leprosy and related skin diseases, long-term bleeding, withered hands, Dropsy, deafness, blindness and paralysis.

Miracles of a controlling nature: Feeding the 5000 and the 4000 men, cursing the Fig Tree, Turning water into wine, walking on water, trasfiguration of Jesus, Catch of 153 fish, calming a strom, transubstantiation during last supper.

Miracles of Power over death: Jairus' daughter, young man at Nain, raising of Lazarus, Christ's own resurrection. "

Greed wrote on Sep 29, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Jesus Christ was a liberal. He was crucified by Conservatives. I suggest reading The Jefferson Bible. It is simply The New Testament with all the supernatural stuff removed, which turns it into a biography of Christ. If there is a heaven, I think it very difficult for a conservative to enter, especially a rich conservative preacher. "

lizzie wrote on Sep 29, 2008 12:25 PM:

" Hey, I say people are free to request anything they want and pray any way they want. It is after all, the USA, a country that expounds on it's freedom.

BUT, If I want to dance around my year-round decorated shrubbery singing rain dances in dry weather, then I want to without being arrested. "

Sweetcheeks wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:24 AM:

" wow....just wow. "

cocoa wrote on Sep 28, 2008 10:26 PM:

" McLovin It - No, you give ME a break. Conservatives were all over Obama about his pastor's rant, but they cry "unfair!" when Liberals latch onto something like THIS? The hypocrisy in this country continues. "

let's be reasonable wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:13 PM:

" " holleyk07 writes...These peoples personal religions are none of our business!"

I agree IF the same elected officials keep their religion out of politics. Unfortunately, that is not the case with Palin. Thus, it is important to know about her crazy religious beliefs because without a doubt she will, if elected, try to influence policy in U.S. government based on her peculiar brand of religion which is whacko. Basically, conservative ultra right wing republicanism doesn't want government in your life (supposedly) but it does want government small enough so it fits snugly in your bedroom all the time in terms of your personal reproductive rights (abortion, birth control, etc.). "

110100100 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:09 PM:

" So apparently this pastor's church doctrine "focuses on ridding the world of demons — and witches."

In a religious context, this makes sense. Most of Jesus's so called "healings" were demonic exorcisms. Obviously today we know that people do not get possessed by demons, and that people never were. The people Jesus encountered probably had mental problems, epilepsy, or various other afflictions. An even more likely scenario is that these people were in cahoots with Jesus and faking their illness, just as they do in modern day Pentacostal "healings." "

The Cat wrote on Sep 28, 2008 4:48 PM:

" The problem is not just Obummer’s choice of “religious” advisors (Wright, Wright’s replacement, Fleger) but also his choice of associates like Rezko and Ayers and his choice of organizations to associate with like ACORN and his choice of political advisors and staff like Axelrod, Johnson, and Raines. All are ultra leftwing, racists, and/or crooks. Despite you “progressives” continued whining, this Kenyan minister was not Palin’s pastor or “spiritual advisor” for 20 years nor did he marry her and baptize her kids. The same is true of the Hagee and other conservative pastors that you try to associate with McCain. "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 3:21 PM:

" Woody, Wright was standing in the pulpit of Trinity United Church of Christ advocating his favorite religion, "Liberation Theology", when he made the 'G-D America' comment. Here it is, in context:

***"The government gives them drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America'. No, no, no, God Damn America, that's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating OUR citizens as less than human."***

If Wright's many comments are not heinous, why did Obama distance himself from Wright and why did Trinity United toss Wright out of the pulpit? "

The Cats wrote on Sep 28, 2008 11:52 AM:

" holleyk07 writes...
" These peoples personal religions are none of our business! It's good that she gets spiritual help where she feels comfortable! Maybe she has her opinions about our God, but at least she is mature enough to keep them to herself knowing that they could be hurtful or contraversial. "

I could not agree more. Wonder why the radical right started all the talk about a persons religious beliefs? Wonder why McSame (and Bush before him) made religion (not any religion just born again christians (small "c" intended)) a litmus test. The old saying hiolds true..."what goes around comes around". You "reap what you sew". LOL in November. "

The Cats wrote on Sep 28, 2008 11:49 AM:

" Follow writes...

"He knows about it because he lived there and went to school there as a child. "

LOL. McSame lived in the US and went to school her as a child. Does that make him responsible for everything the US has done wrong in his lifetime? Please try and think through your answers a little more. An intellectually challenged respose from a McSame supporter...it makes sense, after all, Johnny graduated 894 out of 899 at Annapolis...you 2 obviously have a lot in common. Thanks for the laugh. LOL in November. "

The Cats wrote on Sep 28, 2008 11:45 AM:

" Oh Behave writes...

"" A woman receives a blessing, from a pastor, for public service and this is wrong, stupid, ignorant, what? Obama sits for 20 years while his pastor rants and raves against America, then has the nerve to say he's never heard him talk like that?"

McSame decided to make ones pastor a campaign issue. Now they are mad because it is being turned against them. One thoughtless rant is not 20 years from Wright...you do not even have your facts straight. Do you think Obama sat in that church every Sunday? Doubtfull. She didn't disavow this person as Obama did. Why not? She is the one dodging investigators in Alaska...why? McSame was a founding member of the Keating 5...what are you saying about that? Not much left for you to argue about as the campaign winds down. Obama gains daily as McSame and his intellectual light weight (Oh, McSame is also in that boat as he graduated 894 out of 899 at Annapolis) VP (The planes will fly over Alaska...LOL) self destruct with hastily thought out positions and backtracking. LOL in November. "

The Cats wrote on Sep 28, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Why would this surprise anyone. According to her she does not believe in evolution. She thinks women have no rights to their bodies including no abortions in the case of rape or incest. Her views are so far right as to be off the screen. This does not surprise anyone I have spoken to. Most conservatives have disavowed her. Only McSame continues in his support. Her poll numbers have tanked and she is still hiding something in Alaska...wonder why this "honest maverick" will not talk to the investigators? She is just another in a series of hasty, non-thought out decisions for the flip flopper McSame. BTW what does he stand for? I have not seen any concrete policies yet. Is he just against Obama and not for anything? LOL in November. "

Woody wrote on Sep 27, 2008 9:05 PM:

" gelfing,

In the aftermath of Katrina, several pastors said that New Orleans was suffering God's wrath because of its sins. Do you consider that "anti-american"? Because, essentially that is all that Rev. Wright was saying - except he was talking about other things that this nation has done wrong.

I wouldn't want Wright as my minister, but the man served our country in the armed forces. I think it is ridiculous to suggest that he is anti-american. "

Oh, behave... wrote on Sep 27, 2008 4:22 PM:

" A woman receives a blessing, from a pastor, for public service and this is wrong, stupid, ignorant, what? Obama sits for 20 years while his pastor rants and raves against America, then has the nerve to say he's never heard him talk like that? His spiritual mentor and he has no idea the man thinks like that? The pastor should be ashamed for spreading such hatred from the pulpit and Obama should be ashamed to lie about it so blatantly. Palin only accepted a blessing and protection as she went out into the world to serve. That's to be condemned? The world is truly upside down. How can people not realize it? Why do people hate her so? I just don't get it. They criticize her hair, her children, her glasses, anything. What is the matter with people? "

The Cat wrote on Sep 27, 2008 4:19 PM:

" Kenyan pastor? Wonder if it was one of Obummer’s many half brothers? Can’t be though since they are all muslims like his close cousin that likes to kill Christians. Santo Fan: You must have missed Obummer’s boy Biden. A gaff a minute from the Donkey VP candidate. Woody: Wright is a leftwing racist in alleged Christian clothing although he did manage the same “religious” approach when he was a Black Muslim. Made a good living with the preacher gig. "

110100100 wrote on Sep 27, 2008 3:45 PM:

" FollowTheConsitution - I don't think Obama ever lived in Kenya; he lived in Jakarta, Indonesia and attended a madrasa there (a Muslim school). "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 27, 2008 2:06 PM:

" airhead wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:22 AM:
" Now Obama is being blamed for the Kenyan insanity and he knows about it because he is Kenyan?"

He knows about it because he lived there and went to school there as a child. "

holleyk07 wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:00 AM:

" These peoples personal religions are none of our business! It's good that she gets spiritual help where she feels comfortable! Maybe she has her opinions about our God, but at least she is mature enough to keep them to herself knowing that they could be hurtful or contraversial. "

GetYourPitchForks wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:49 AM:

" "... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

And you think Sarah Palin is nuts? "

airhead wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:22 AM:

" Now Obama is being blamed for the Kenyan insanity and he knows about it because he is Kenyan? I think it is interesting that Sarah Palin has a more convicting video regarding a Kenyan of all people than Obama does. Some think Sarah Palin is wonderful and she screeched a good speech. However, what revealed the most to me is when she was giving interviews and her responses. Some do not know what acting like a leader means. It is in your demeanor, in your answers, in your actions. Sarah looks prepped and ready, her answers are lame and rambling, and she doesn't act like a leader and that may be from the leaders she has not been around. In my opinion Sarahs balloon has turned to lead. Rightfully so since McCain did not vet her at all. Otherwise he would have had the witch videos etc and he would not have to be trying to stop the investigation against her on several fronts. "

airhead wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:11 AM:

" You guys still get the gd america wrong! What the Rev said was some say God Bless america when they are acting like gd america. When you and Hannity just play the words by themselves it creates an entirely different meaning. But guess what ? God knows the intent and statement. And I believe he is much happier with that than with those who pray for rain on someone else parade and those who use his son's names while referring to the other candidate. The mind has filters and it is amazing how those filters work. Imagine how the Republicans would be responding if it were Chicago in which Mrs. Palin was from? Suddenly that town would be as pure as the whitest snow. "

Realist wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:08 PM:

" To Amber: Thanks for the rules refresher, but I fail to see how my post didn't follow the rules? "

FollowTheConsitution wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:30 PM:

" Looked like a great idea! Protect her from the political witchcraft (insert CORRUPTION)! "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:00 PM:

" 110100100, I'm stipulating that the Bible specifically warns of witchcraft and to practice it is forbidden by the word of God.

I don't believe in predestination, therefore I don't believe it is proper for any Christian to hunt witches or pass judgement over them from a secular point of view. However, it is appropriate to pray to God to intervene in the name of Jesus Christ for such persons involved in witchcraft and intellectually persuade those persons to change from their ways......just like we should do for any person whose life is in bondage.

As Christians we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 5:40 PM:

" lindini wrote on Sep 25, 2008 4:09 PM: " I love Republican logic, you scream and yell for months about how a man's church affiliations brand his character......blah, blah, blah......

I don't believe there is anything wrong with Obama's church affiliation. I do, however, believe Obama's extremely close association to Wright for more than 20 years is suspect as hell! "

110100100 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:04 PM:

" DK61727 - are you stipulating that witches do indeed exists and are a threat to Palin and mankind in general? Are Kenyans justified in their present day witch hunts? "

lindini wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:03 PM:

" Oh come on! Nothing out of the ordinary? What church are you going to? "

i said that wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:57 PM:

" Gelfing, I know many Christians that do not believe in witches. Do you? "

gelfing wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:03 PM:

" lindini

the phrase "G-D america" is, without a doubt anti-american. I have watched the videos and researched. If I was "fed" by the media, I wouldn't think it was a problem.... That Rev used language, weither in jest or in truth that shows his anti-establishemnt, anti-american, raciest views.
Sarah Palin, however, has had nothing raised against her religious past that, when taken in context, is out of the ordinary for a christian. "

kz17 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:38 PM:

" If anybody did any research on this "guy" you would find that he promotes violence against anybody he feels *od tells him is evil. And anything he feels is evil he labels witchcraft. He told people in this church to vote her into being governor (Palin even admits he didn't know anything about her or what she stood for) and I don't think the IRS likes it when a church tries to tell people how to vote. There are rules against that. "

lindini wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:35 PM:

" Gelfing: Obama's minister is not and never was "anti-American". Watch his actual speeches, you might be surprised about the facts when you actually get them for yourself instead of letting someone else give you the summary. And as for Palin's "religious" figures, well, I dare say Jim Jones, the pro-lifers who protest at soldiers funerals, heck even Osama Bin Laden himself can be called "religious" figures. The most basic research will show how far from center her churches beliefs are from the rest of the country. I think it is a bit telling and at least worth as much discussion as the Rev. Wright. Then again, one man religion is another mans cult I guess. "

i said that wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Many African nations have blended their own indeginous religions with Christianity. Christianity is still evolving in one form, or another. Here in the States, some Christians handle snakes, some speak in tongues, while others simply drink wine and eat bread. Fortunately, though, most Christians in the United States, at least in the lower 48, gave up hunting witches after the 1692 Salem Witch Trials. "

DK61727 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:13 PM:

" Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. "

ambr1 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:44 PM:

" fishpoop, are you kidding me. It's completely disgusting how Republican this paper is. When it comes to biased news sources they rank right up there with Fox News. It's one of the many reasons why I am cancelling my subscription to the Pantagraph. "

Max Sniler wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:42 PM:

" Palin's church video shows a black man blessing a white woman. Baracks church videos show a paster railing against the USA and white people. Interesting contrast I think. "

fishpoop wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:04 AM:

" Hummmm l just can't seem to figure out who this paper is pulling for.... hummmmmmm "

Gov't oppressed Mule wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:48 AM:

" NICKSMYNICK:

WELL SAID!!!

BOB BARR 08! "

ambr1 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:45 AM:

" nicksmynick, yes there should be seperation between church and state (even though Republicans seem to think differently). For example, gay people shouldn't be denied to right to marry just because your religion says it's wrong. My religion says it's not wrong. We should agree to disagree and let everyone have EQUAL rights. The problem is though that if a politician holds beliefs that are very extreme, such as believing in the supernatural or witchcraft, then the public has a right to know that. If Palin were a racist (which apparently she is from her

Ads by Yahoo!

Workforce Development: South Central IL

Relocating to Bloomington IL?

1815's Newspaper Articles